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[Partially Solved: re-wired keyboard lol] Registry key "InitialKeyboardIndicators" NEVER keeps NumLock ON + ScrollLock ON (6) at startup and reverts back to NumLock ON (2)

    Question

  • Hello,

    note: I hope I'm posting in the right section (if not, please tell me precisely where to post it, as I've been redirected from answers . microsoft . com and am unfamiliar with this forum)

    I've looked everywhere, I think, tried everything I could find, nothing worked!

    I have a back-lit keyboard with the key ScrollLock working as an ON/OFF switch for the back-light.

    I want my keyboard to be lit when I start windows, so that I can see which key is which when I type my password, so I've modified ALL the Control Panel/Keyboard/"InitialKeyboardIndicators" keys in the registry from 2 to 6. When I restart the computer though, the keyboard isn't back-lit and "InitialKeyboardIndicators" has reverted back to 2... -___-

    The value options are as follows:

    0 - Turn all indicators Off (NumLock, CapsLock, ScrollLock)
    1 - Turn CapsLock On
    2 - Turn NumLock On
    3 - Turn CapsLock and NumLock On
    4 - Turn ScrollLock On
    5 - Turn CapsLock and ScrollLock On
    6 - Turn NumLock and ScrollLock On
    7 - Turn all indicators On (NumLock, CapsLock, ScrollLock)


    I've tried killing all instances of explorer.exe in order for Registry to keep the changes (read that somewhere), well, not working: it does show 6 but the ScrollLock key hasn't been switched ON and neither has my keyboard's lights, obviously. And, when I restart, it still reverts back to 2.
    I've also activated the "super admin" account in w7 and tried changing the keys from there too, no success: when I log back into my account, it's still 2 and no back-light :(

    Any idea what the problem is?

    I have w7 pro (french edition) sp1 x64, my account is admin and I've disabled NumLock ON in my BIOS, to be sure (in case you ask, I don't have any setting for ScrollLock in the BIOS). I also always launch regedit as admin.

    Thanks for your help!

    Just to be clear, I do have found a workaround, through a VB script that I've put in the Startup folder, so yay for that but I'd really want to know and understand why Registry key "InitialKeyboardIndicators" isn't keeping my changes and how to make it keep them.

    Here's the VB script, if anyone needs it, just create a new document through Notepad and save it as a .vbs and put it in your Startup folder (C:\Users\Your_session\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Startup)

    Set wshShell =wscript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell")
    Dim i
    i=0
    do while(i<=0)
    wscript.sleep 200
    wshshell.sendkeys "{SCROLLLOCK}"
    i=i+1
    loop

    And many thanks to the person who wrote it!!!!

    • Edited by un4free Monday, June 15, 2015 11:16 AM
    Thursday, June 11, 2015 4:51 AM

Answers

  • 1) Ok, thank you, you just confirmed that once the initial value is modified it will always stick to 2, no matter what. I wonder why that is, but meh, I guess I'll never know!
    (but if anyone is finding this thread and wish to add their own 2 cents, be my guest! ^^)


    2) Thanks, I will look into these.


    Good luck with your coding too!

    I'll keep updating this post I think, so once I'm done with the program and I'm happy with it, I'll post it here so others can use it if they wish.


    Thanks again for your time and advices!


    EDIT & CONCLUSION


    Okay, I have found a solution... but I consider it cheating :D

    I actually re-wired the keyboard, so that it lights up immediately after the computer powers up.

    There's a video on youtube here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4n4oKf1ATo) which is well explained. It took me 5 min to do it, much much less time than reading on the subjet of coding took me (or even downloading and installing Visual Studio lol)
    In all fairness, this is actually an even better solution than writing a program that activates Scroll Lock for me, because now I can use the Scroll Lock key independently from the backlight and it won't interfere with Excel anymore.


    So yay, problem solved!


    Registry is actually a lying piece of ... because even if it says 6 on my account, when I open up the "super admin" account and go have a look at the value, it's not actually 6 but 2147483650! (=2) gah! and there's no way for it to keep the 6, even when I deny permission of editing, deleting etc. for "everybody"... it somehow manages to keep 2.
    But whatever: I still win.


    P.S.: I'm still curious about that registry thing, so if anyone knows anything, hit me up!


    Cheers



    • Marked as answer by un4free Monday, June 15, 2015 10:32 AM
    • Edited by un4free Monday, June 15, 2015 10:38 AM
    Sunday, June 14, 2015 3:13 PM

All replies

  • Hi,

    Has some software(driver and/or utility) been supplied with your keyboard?
    If there are none, I'd like to know its manufacture and model. What is your back-lit keyboard? 

    Best regards,

    Thursday, June 11, 2015 5:58 AM
  • Hello,

    No CD in the box, no, and nothing on their website.
    It's a CM Storm (Cooler Master) Devastator SGB-3010-KKMF1 (Blue backlit version) http://gaming.coolermaster.com/en/products/keyboards/devastator/


    Thanks for your help :)
    • Edited by un4free Thursday, June 11, 2015 6:03 AM
    Thursday, June 11, 2015 6:03 AM
  • Hello,
    Thank you for the information.

    Would you try to connect your keyboard 
      1. directly to your PC (without using/via USB hub)
      2. to other USB port, changing one after another.

    I suppose if you're connecting your keyboard via USB hab that has no power supply.

    Good luck!
    • Edited by Ashidacchi Thursday, June 11, 2015 6:37 AM
    Thursday, June 11, 2015 6:35 AM
  • The keyboard is plugged directly on the computer, no hub whatsoever. I've already tried all my USB ports, no change. Thanks for the help
    Thursday, June 11, 2015 7:22 AM
  • I'm sorry for my wrong guess.

    When replacing with another keyboard, does [Scroll Lock] key work?
    If BIOS settings and registry are correct, [Scroll Lock] works. If not, you might have modified registry incorrectly, or [Scroll Lock] might be disabled in BIOS settings.

    Sorry in advance, if I'm wrong .

    P.S. I've read your first post again (and again).
    Does [Num Lock] have any relation to this issue?
    I don't have documents/manual of "Devastator SGB-3010-KKMF1 (Blue backlit version) ", so I know little about your keyboard.

    It may be the best way to consult with manufacturer(Cooler Master) or the shop where you bought it.

    Best regards,


    • Edited by Ashidacchi Thursday, June 11, 2015 8:50 PM
    Thursday, June 11, 2015 8:18 AM
  • ^^ I think there's a misunderstanding somewhere:
    both Num Lock & Scroll Lock (the actual keys) work on my keyboard (or even on the other I own), the issue is with Windows Registry (regedit.exe) not keeping the changes I make on the registry key "InitialKeyboardIndicators" (ctrl F and replaced all 2s by 6s, for every occurrences/users) for the account I use.
    If I manually press Scroll Lock, my keyboard lights do switch ON.

    I just don't want to press it manually, I want it to be ON by itself, like the Num Lock key.

    I don't think it is related in any way with the keyboard itself.

    The values I give (2 and 6) are each a setting that allows particular keys to be switched ON at startup.

    2 is for Num Lock ON (and only Num Lock) and 6 is for both Num Lock & Scroll Lock ON (if you are interested, there are other values, for example Caps Lock, just google it, you'll see what I mean. I even think there's a topic related on Microsoft website, where all values are officially detailed)
    EDIT: I couldn't find it again, so here's a post where the answer is what I'm talking about: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-hardware/want-to-set-num-lock-to-be-on-and-active-at/7b48ae6f-fa9c-4bc2-8359-81e0c5e5d6a2

    Like I said, I've tried loggin in as "super admin" (launching cmd.exe as admin, then typing "net user administrateur /active:yes" then log off my account and log in that super admin account. "administrateur" because "administrator" doesn't work on my French Windows =/) and changing the registry values from there, to no avail: current_user (and the other one corresponding to my account) both go back to 2 after I log back on my usual account…

    Hope it's clearer now ^^


    • Edited by un4free Thursday, June 11, 2015 10:15 AM
    Thursday, June 11, 2015 9:04 AM
  • Hi,

    Thanks. Finally, I could understand your intention.
    I sometimes add/modify entries or keys in registry, manually.
    Would you tell me the keys related to your issue, in full string, like "/HKEY_CURRENT_USER/..."?

    Best regards,

    P.S. Please insert [CR/LF] in your post, for my poor English ability can hardly follow you.
    • Edited by Ashidacchi Thursday, June 11, 2015 9:35 AM
    Thursday, June 11, 2015 9:33 AM
  • Here's a screencap for you to see where I made the changes http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=15061112025319388513354385.png

    so, only these 2 don't keep my changes:
    HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Keyboard >> InitialKeyboardIndicators
    and
    HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-21-2443108883-1459239889-4196215616-1000\Control Panel\Keyboard >>InitialKeyboardIndicators

    the others do:
    HKEY_USERS\.DEFAULT\Control Panel\Keyboard >>InitialKeyboardIndicators
    HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-18\Control Panel\Keyboard >>InitialKeyboardIndicators
    HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-19\Control Panel\Keyboard >>InitialKeyboardIndicators
    HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-20\Control Panel\Keyboard >>InitialKeyboardIndicators

    (sorry, I've edited my previous post, it was made on my smartphone and it didn't keep the line breaks for some reason =/)

    Thursday, June 11, 2015 10:09 AM
  • Hi un4free,
    Thank you the further infomation. I've got it.

    But I want to stop thinking on this issue today. I'll be back tomorrow, for I'm modifying my code(application) and it's almost dinner time in Japan.

    Best regards,

    P.S. my intuition says "Eys down, HKEY_??, its range effective"
    • Edited by Ashidacchi Thursday, June 11, 2015 10:32 AM
    Thursday, June 11, 2015 10:20 AM
  • ahah ok, enjoy your dinner then and thank you for your time! :)

    EDIT (no pressure Ashidacchi, just an update) :

    I just tried taking full ownership of "Keyboard" (in the 2 keys that keep reverting back to 2) and un-ticked the inheritance tick box (as per this post http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-system/changes-to-registry-entry-not-saved-on-restart/4212f39b-4894-450e-b669-0d2a69c88533 )
    Now, I'm the only owner, and only I have permissions (I have full control). System and Administrator aren't even there.

    and... nothing! I mean, I input 6, I reboot and bam back to 2 -__- I'm losing my mind here!

    I also tried typing 0 in order to disable all keys (and test if the value 6 wasn't my problem) but same result as above. Back to 2...

    • Edited by un4free Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:03 AM
    Thursday, June 11, 2015 10:24 AM
  • un4free, Good morning(in Japan),

    [my conclusion]
      value data cannot be changed to "6", it always turns to "2" after the session closed.
        //HKEY_CURRENT_USER/Control Panel/Keyboard
             (InitialKeyboardIndicators : REG_SZ = "6" > "2")

    [my experiment]
       see this image


     I have no idea why data value turns back to "2", after a session is closed(Sign Out/ Restart), even though it has been set to "6".

    If you've made a script to set the value to "6", you can place it at Startup etc.

    Best regards,
    • Edited by Ashidacchi Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:56 PM
    Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:54 PM
  • Good morning to you too (though I guess it's rather close to noon for you now, right?)

    Thanks for your testing, I see you get the same results as me.
    Did you make the changes to 6 on all values of InitialKeyboardIndicators? (apparently doing so is the key --unfortunately, not for me...)
    (here's what I'm refering to , the post selected as "Answer" by the OP: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-hardware/want-to-set-num-lock-to-be-on-and-active-at/7b48ae6f-fa9c-4bc2-8359-81e0c5e5d6a2 )
    Also, could you try and see if putting 0 still gives the same results?

    I think there is something that prevents us from modifying those specific values, but what??

    And what I dont get is, why some people (most people) manage to do it? I mean, for them it's rather a change from 0 (or from 2147483648) to 2, but why does it work for them and not for us?

    I'm going to try this: (page 2 of the link above, post by Lead3) but with 6 instead of 2 lol (apparently HEX value 0x80000006 is 2147483654, so that's what I'll try)

    "The value 2147483648 is a decimal string that is equivalent to 0x80000000 in HEX.

    Change the value to 2147483650 which is 0x80000002 in HEX.  

    The 2 is the value that turns on numbers lock as was shown earlier in the post.

    I found a discussion from a Mr Joe Morris on Technolgy questions forum from 2007 that indicates that the upper bit (8) determines whether the BIOS or Windows detemines the numbers lock state at logon. If it is an 8 (upper bit set) then either the BIOS or the 2 value will determine the numbers lock, if the upper bit is 0 then the 2 value alone determines the numbers lock state.

    http://www.technologyquestions.com/technology/windows-vista/133492-numlock-key-not-active-after-start-up.html "

    EDIT:

    okay, that didn't work... maybe in super admin...? (this is crazy)

    • Edited by un4free Friday, June 12, 2015 4:16 AM
    Friday, June 12, 2015 4:08 AM
  • Hi, good afternoon(it's about 13:30 in Japan)

    Before answering to your questions, I'll show you an Excel file.
    It's the source of the image(my previous post).
    http://1drv.ms/1L1xJPo

    I'll answer in the next post, for I'm busy now, doing TSS(Time Sharing System).

    Regards,
    Friday, June 12, 2015 4:28 AM
  • Thanks, it means that it didn't work on all your windows and on your 2 computers, right?
    The data for the ThinkPad is what is confusing me, I find it contradictory: NG (which means back to 2) and value = 6 (manually changed > OK) :D

    Answer whenever, don't worry, it's been an issue for months so... ^^'


    EDIT:

    I think I get it:
    You changed all values of InitialKeyboardIndicators to 6 (for nothing because it went back to 2) and for the key HKEY_USERS\.DEFAULT\Control Panel\Keyboard only on your ThinkPad it stayed at 6.

    lol

    It's so confusing! For me (self made computer also, on w7 pro x64 sp1) that last key isn't a problem at all, it keeps my changes (whether it be 0, or 6 or 2147483654 even).

    I really dont understand what the problem is.

    Also, using a script won't work (or will, but will be pointless), since that particular registry key defines the states of the keys at startup and a script can be launched only after startup is done, so it doesn't do anything except changing 2 to 6 in the registry (but there is no point doing so, since changes are not kept after a reboot).


    EDIT2:

    I found that making a change in HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Keyboard changes also HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-21-2443108883-1459239889-4196215616-1000\Control Panel\Keyboard and vice-versa (those two are, I guess, what hinders me, since they are the only ones that revert back to 2, whatever the value I input before rebooting)
    and that making a change in HKEY_USERS\.DEFAULT\Control Panel\Keyboard changes also HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-18\Control Panel\Keyboard and vice-versa
    the other 2 (HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-19\Control Panel\Keyboard and HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-20\Control Panel\Keyboard) do not affect each-other.
    Is it of any significance? i dont even know! ^^'


    EDIT3:

    It's getting crazier and crazier. I've deleted the value HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Keyboard > InitialKeyboardIndicators (that same value was also deleted automatically in HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-21-2443108883-1459239889-4196215616-1000\Control Panel\Keyboard) and rebooted . And it came back, still at 2!

    • Edited by un4free Friday, June 12, 2015 5:33 AM
    Friday, June 12, 2015 4:35 AM
  • Hi,

    > it means that it didn't work on all your windows and on your 2 computers, right?

    No, on 2 computers, it didn't work.

    > The data for the ThinkPad is what is confusing me, I find it contradictory: NG (which means back to 2) and value = 6 (manually changed > OK) :D

    On the key "//HKEY_USERS/.DEFAULT/Conrol Panel/Keyboard", I changed to "6", and after logout/login, its value "6" was still "6".
    But on "//HKEY_CURRENT_USER/Control Panel/Keyboard", "6" turned to "2". So, I thought it was "NG".

    Best regards,
    Friday, June 12, 2015 5:50 AM
  • Ok. Could you try with 0 instead of 6 then? To see if there is effectively something that blocks the changes. (0 would mean no key ON)

    For w8 and above, there is a procedure you have to follow in order for the changes to apply. check here http://www.thewindowsclub.com/numlock-startup-windows-7-8

    Anyway, nothing is working for me still.

    I'm going to try this http://discussions.virtualdr.com/showthread.php?265473-Keyboard-scroll-lock-problem&p=1462861#post1462861

    I really would like to know what's blocking the changes though...


    EDIT

    And what do you know? It worked lol ... or rather, registry kept the 6 (finally, yay) but it STILL doesnt switch Scroll Lock ON T____T only Num Lock. Gah!

    (going to try with 4, only Scroll Lock ON)


    EDIT2

    I tried with 4, nothing light up, same for 7 (all keys ON: Num Lock, Caps Lock & Scroll Lock): only Num Lock lights up -____-

    I even checked to see if they where ON by typing some random text but no caps... so they're really off. I really don't get it... *sigh*

    dunno what to do now :(

    • Edited by un4free Saturday, June 13, 2015 12:34 PM
    Saturday, June 13, 2015 12:04 PM
  • Hi un4free,

    I'll try it tomorrow. I promise.

    But I wonder why you're sticking to this issue for long. It must have continued over one month. Oh, don't get angry. I say it, since I think we don't have so much time, have much to do instead. 
    If I were you, I would make a simple program that would emulate [Scroll Lock] or modify registry, and have it start automatically just after Windows start.
    I'm a software developer over 60 years old, still developing eveyday, and sometimes post on some forums as a volunteer. 

    Sorry, I've wrote unrelated things to your issue.

    Good night(in Japan)
    • Edited by Ashidacchi Saturday, June 13, 2015 1:19 PM
    Saturday, June 13, 2015 1:06 PM
  • Nah, that's alright, I get why you would say that.

    Well, like I say in my original post, I do have found a work-around with a visual basics script. The thing is, scripts only start after login and to input my password I need to see the actual keys on my keyboard. And since the keys are backlit and black, if the backlight isn't ON, I can't see which key is which ^^'

    So, for the time being, I have disabled password at login and my keyboard lights up by itself, after automatical login. But that's not what I want: I don't want to give anyone access to my computer, hence the password. -____-

    All that should have been solved with that registry tweak... and isn't. I find that very frustrating and infuriating, even. It should work and it doesn't. Grr

    (good night :D)

    Saturday, June 13, 2015 2:51 PM
  • I've got it.

    And it hits on me if a program would run as a service, your keyboard would lit before login.

    Saturday, June 13, 2015 3:01 PM
  • Yeah? Shame I cannot program/code to save my life lol ^^'

    You've given me hope! Thanks!

    Saturday, June 13, 2015 3:09 PM
  • Hi,

    1) Sum up the check items for me to test (registry), using the excel file I've shown you before.
      I'm feeling you've wrote too much, I want to follow all of your post, sorry. 

    2) I won't develop an app for a few persons, at least for only one.

    Regards,

    • Edited by Ashidacchi Sunday, June 14, 2015 12:23 AM
    Saturday, June 13, 2015 11:45 PM
  • Hey Ashidacchi,


    1) Please check if registry keeps your settings when you input 0 (or even 2147483648, which was the default setting if I recall). It should disable all three keys.
    I couldn't get it to stick with 0 either, it always went back to 2.
    So, just try and see if just replacing 2 by 0 / 2147483648 works for you.
    (as for me, I only managed to get registry to keep the changes by applying this method: http://discussions.virtualdr.com/showthread.php?265473-Keyboard-scroll-lock-problem&p=1462861#post1462861 (that's for w7. w8 is on page 2 of this post) but I don't want you to try that, it's pointless: I know registry will keep the changes that way).


    2) As for coding, I wasn't implicitly asking you to code for me, don't worry, just implicitly stating that I would have to learn to do it, from scratch, since I don't know anything about it ^^
    It's totally understandable that you don't want to spend time on a project that will only benefit a few.
    I've already started reading a bit on how to create a service. Now I'm thinking about what I want to put in my program, I think I have a lot to learn and a lot of testing to do! But I want to make it work!


    Any advice on what language I should use on my program?


    Thanks in advance!


    • Edited by un4free Sunday, June 14, 2015 5:26 AM
    • Proposed as answer by codekitten Friday, May 27, 2016 4:28 AM
    Sunday, June 14, 2015 5:26 AM
  • Hi un4fee,

    1) my result(Win 7, Win 8.1)
     

    2) I recommend VB.NET or C#. 

     Good luck, Good bye
    Sunday, June 14, 2015 6:42 AM
  • 1) Ok, thank you, you just confirmed that once the initial value is modified it will always stick to 2, no matter what. I wonder why that is, but meh, I guess I'll never know!
    (but if anyone is finding this thread and wish to add their own 2 cents, be my guest! ^^)


    2) Thanks, I will look into these.


    Good luck with your coding too!

    I'll keep updating this post I think, so once I'm done with the program and I'm happy with it, I'll post it here so others can use it if they wish.


    Thanks again for your time and advices!


    EDIT & CONCLUSION


    Okay, I have found a solution... but I consider it cheating :D

    I actually re-wired the keyboard, so that it lights up immediately after the computer powers up.

    There's a video on youtube here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4n4oKf1ATo) which is well explained. It took me 5 min to do it, much much less time than reading on the subjet of coding took me (or even downloading and installing Visual Studio lol)
    In all fairness, this is actually an even better solution than writing a program that activates Scroll Lock for me, because now I can use the Scroll Lock key independently from the backlight and it won't interfere with Excel anymore.


    So yay, problem solved!


    Registry is actually a lying piece of ... because even if it says 6 on my account, when I open up the "super admin" account and go have a look at the value, it's not actually 6 but 2147483650! (=2) gah! and there's no way for it to keep the 6, even when I deny permission of editing, deleting etc. for "everybody"... it somehow manages to keep 2.
    But whatever: I still win.


    P.S.: I'm still curious about that registry thing, so if anyone knows anything, hit me up!


    Cheers



    • Marked as answer by un4free Monday, June 15, 2015 10:32 AM
    • Edited by un4free Monday, June 15, 2015 10:38 AM
    Sunday, June 14, 2015 3:13 PM