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Raspberry Pi 4 is now available. Where is Windows IoT? RRS feed

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  • Very keen to see a Windows 10 IoT Core build supporting Raspberry Pi 4.
    Monday, June 24, 2019 8:26 AM
  • Dear Microsoft, we are waiting for a reliable and feature full version of windows 10 Iot core for Raspberry Pi 4, including Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, Video Card support and other features which we need for develop our products.

    Can anybody from Microsoft say when windows IoT available for Raspberry Pi 4 ? 



    Monday, June 24, 2019 9:46 AM
  • Good question ! And i would like to see an answer from Microsoft, at least to understand a possible roadmap in the next months on which models to concentrate all the efforts. In any case as soon as I can get one Pi 4 I will try an installation following the statements for Pi3B+.

    Moreno Borsalino

    Monday, June 24, 2019 3:31 PM
  • Yes,

    We are looking forward to this.


    Keep Fighting

    Tuesday, June 25, 2019 5:30 AM
  • I'm looking forward for this too
    Tuesday, June 25, 2019 10:24 AM
  • I would also be interested to know if Microsoft has any plans to support the RPi4 on Windows IOT core.
    Tuesday, June 25, 2019 3:28 PM
  • My understanding is that the team is focused on new features, which are going to take a while to develop. Support for new SoC or reference board might be a ways off. Of course, Microsoft has to provide the details.

    Sean Liming - Book Author: Starter Guide Windows 10 IoT Enterprise - www.annabooks.com / www.seanliming.com

    Tuesday, June 25, 2019 6:16 PM
  • Hoping to see this as well!

    My fear is that MS is missing the boat again with IoT. I think they are more interested in the Enterprise solutions (Azure IoT, Sphere..) rather than the Edge products.

    I was reading an article about a new MS project called Windows Core OS. Have a feeling that this may replace Windows 10 IoT Core product.

    Wednesday, June 26, 2019 3:41 PM
  • Essential that hardware video acceleration is included. Win 10 IoT on Pi 3 and below is fairly useless for any UI display, Digital Signage use etc as it has no hardware video acceleration and uses generic graphics drivers. Attitude is that it won't unless the Pi Foundation etc are prepared to develop drivers for it (they provide them for Raspbian but won't touch IoT).
    Thursday, June 27, 2019 1:28 PM
  • Hello Carlo A. Mendoza,

    We are excited to see the new RPi4 platform and are evaluating the numerous changes. Given the need for a new Raspbian OS, we do not expect the existing FFUs for Windows 10 IoT Core to be compatible with this platform.

    Best regards,

    Rita


    MSDN Community Support
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    Friday, June 28, 2019 1:45 AM
    Moderator
  • I think that the first question to Microsoft should be IF Windows 10 IoT Core ever will be available for RPi4?

    RPi3B+ (released March 2018) is still not yet officially supported ….

    Friday, June 28, 2019 10:41 AM
  • If MS doesn't immediately release a new Windows 10 IoT version that has full compatibility with RPi4 it will signal the death knell for Rpi4 as a platform for makers interested in Windows 10 IoT. Companies have to move FAST to compete in a market. RPi3B+ is still on hold, but there is now a very short window to recapture market for RPi4. If RPi4 has to wait, no makers will experiment with it for new projects. They need to do this NOW, without waiting for Azure IoT or other MS hosted cloud services; that can be added later. I believe that most makers aren't interested in Azure IoT anyway. If MS isn't able to get a huge team together to knock this out within no more than a month, then it's really very strong evidence that MS is really only interested cloud services that generate $ and aren't concerned with maker projects or high school STEM projects. MS has already lost the huge initial interest it had when Windows IoT was first released for RPi. MS needs to step up and recapture this market segment because makers and school kids are the very people that will be developing products in 10 years. And if Windows IoT is alien to them, they will not suggest it as an option when they graduate and get R&D jobs. Let's not make the same short sighted decisions that elevated Android and doomed Windows Mobile.
    • Proposed as answer by Jon Steiner Friday, August 2, 2019 3:24 PM
    Saturday, June 29, 2019 3:47 AM
  • I can't agree more... you said everything in mind
    Monday, July 1, 2019 3:52 AM
  • I have a bad feeling about this, since raspberry 3b+.

    and already looking to switch to linux/python

    Micro framework was also suddenly dropped. We also trusted this platform,  once.

    Monday, July 1, 2019 9:04 AM
  • I wanted to develop some industrial solutions with touchscreen on that platform as UWP platform is quite handy for touchscreen UI and I am familiar with .NET. I mostly gave up any further development as there are available some industrial class very expensive HW solutions but not cost efficient ones. I was hoping raspberry PI4 will be in scope of MS to support, but seems Win IoT is just another dead end OS as Win CE in the past (however in industrial world still used but not supported anymore). 

    So, why UWP still exists when formerly developed for phones, tablets, etc. is bit unclear to me. Running UWP on desktop with its  touchscreen interface makes no sense in my eyes... As MS is not willing to support Win IoT deployment on real available hardware to attract developers to start with, its purpose and effort invested into its existence is a question...



    • Edited by PJ_CMI Monday, July 1, 2019 2:04 PM
    Monday, July 1, 2019 2:00 PM
  • Dear Rita Han

    I think we as Windows 10 IoT core developers community need a clear answer from Microsoft for our question that Will the Windows 10 IoT core support on Raspberry Pi 4 or not? 


    • Edited by Parsa Karami Tuesday, July 2, 2019 4:25 AM
    • Proposed as answer by Dan Croitoru Tuesday, July 2, 2019 7:20 PM
    • Unproposed as answer by Dan Croitoru Tuesday, July 2, 2019 7:20 PM
    Tuesday, July 2, 2019 4:13 AM
  • This is a petition for Microsoft to restart support for current and upcoming Raspberry Pi models.

    The development of UWP apps on Raspberry Pi lives or dies now.

    If not RPi3B+, then at least RPi4.

    Tuesday, July 2, 2019 9:57 AM
  • Hello @devpro66,

    I've merged your thread here since it is same question about Raspberry Pi 4. Please check my reply above.

    Best regards,

    Rita 


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    Wednesday, July 3, 2019 1:09 AM
    Moderator
  • That's all right. However, I would rather have a developer from the Windows-IoT-Core-Team comment this thread.
    Wednesday, July 3, 2019 6:33 AM
  • why limit it to just Windows IoT?

    I'd be really interested in full-blown Windows 10 ARM support... the thing has up to 4GB of RAM, that's more than a lot of cheaper laptops...
    Wednesday, July 3, 2019 3:50 PM
  • Found Win 1.0 in MSN news, will it support the new pi 4 board iso the win10 iot?
    Sunday, July 7, 2019 1:41 AM
  • I think the windows Iot is dead now for MS did not update it for a long time, even does not support RPi3B+ until now.

    I feel disappoint about this and have not any better idea.

    It is not only windows Iot but also UWP dead.

    It seems Microsoft now is focusing on asp.net core but not any.

    Sunday, July 7, 2019 6:36 AM
  • Hello,

    It is really disappoint that there is no update on this topic. Its well known that there are some new developments going on microsoft's side but for the time beeing it is also crutial to have some continuity with introduced iot platform.

    Sunday, July 7, 2019 5:06 PM
  • Hello @aptrkk,

    I'll merge your question to since there is a same one about Raspberry Pi 4. You can check my first reply.

    Best regards,

    Rita


    MSDN Community Support
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    Monday, July 8, 2019 1:32 AM
    Moderator
  • Dear Rita,

    As I understand your answer above, you say that the current FFU won't be RP4 compatible.

    Does it mean that we can expect a new compatible FFU? If yes, when?

    Regards,

    Levente

    Monday, July 8, 2019 10:19 AM
  • I have found out that nobody online has tested it yet.
    Monday, July 8, 2019 7:20 PM
  • I finally managed to get a Pi4 and tried to do the installation like for Pi3B+ (using Technical Preview Build 17661) but unfortunately the card doesn't even boot. So nothing to do and unfortunately I have no illusions that Microsoft will never make a version for Pi4. You need to concentrate on the Pi3 for any serious project.

    Moreno Borsalino


    Saturday, July 13, 2019 4:35 PM
  • Thanks for giving it a try @Moreno

    Can anyone from Microsoft PLEASE tell us if there are any future plans for Windows IOT Core on the Raspberry PI?

    Especially adding Windows Container support to IOT Core for PI4 so we can use IOT Core Edge capabilities?

    I am sure the PI 4 now has enough resources and performance to be eligible for IOT Core Edge.

    OR should we start looking at alternative hardware?

    Thursday, July 18, 2019 11:25 PM
  • I believe we can still use dotnet core on raspberry pi 4 by booting linux and running dotnet core that way.  Not directly answering your question but an alternative solution.
    Sunday, July 21, 2019 10:23 AM
  • really disappointed from MS, I was looking forward for windows iot and uwp on raspberry 4... I think we need to wait on the community (as usual) for the Windows on arm port
    Thursday, July 25, 2019 1:25 PM
  • I must agree with everyone here. I took the time to learn and build several apps for pi 3 and was excited to see the pi 3b+ and pi 4 come out. (I have deployed over 100 pi 3 devices) Now after a year of waiting for MS to support these new boards I am forced to switch over to other development platforms. I am looking at linux/python or Android with xamarin. I have found many other board out there that support these other OS's but no support from MS. After spending many countless hour leaning xamarin, I'm finding the support for it, just as bad with very limited resources allocated to its development. Why does microsoft start so many good projects only to abandon their developers, leaving them hanging without any future support for that platform. This is exactly why python has become the #1 programming language. 
    Thursday, August 1, 2019 3:40 AM
  • If the raspberry pi 4 is not interesting for MS they should just say it and give the community a feedback what is going on. No one has any idea anymore when you should follow new developments. We dont have an clue will uwp die in the near future will it somewhere next year become 100% cross platform portable?

    Most probably none of it. Unfortunatly Windows iot core has a small developer base that will vanish since the support and community on raspian is much bigger and microsofts effort is tending towards zero to change that.

    Friday, August 2, 2019 1:03 PM
  • Is there work towards making Windows 10 IoT Core compatible for RPi4?

    I work in industrial automation, and always eager what Microsoft is doing in the space. We can't deal with the half-steps, toe-dips. Are you in or not?

    I've been at this since .NET Micro Framework. 

    Saturday, August 3, 2019 7:32 PM
  • As I have a pi 4 on the way, I am shocked to find out there is no support for Windows 10 IoT. I can only hope this is resolved so I can install visual studio on and get started. Don't feel like learning python if I don't need to.

    ProgrammerBret

    Wednesday, August 7, 2019 12:27 AM
  • Is there work towards making Windows 10 IoT Core compatible for RPi4?

    I work in industrial automation, and always eager what Microsoft is doing in the space. We can't deal with the half-steps, toe-dips. Are you in or not?

    I've been at this since .NET Micro Framework. 

    This will be the test for me. Raspberry Pi4 looks to be a nearly perfect, full featured, yet inexpensive IoT development platform (built-in eMMC would be have been nice, but I've actually never had SD Micro issues w/ the 3A). I used to want Raspberries to support a few analog I/O channels, but now I don't use the local GPIO at all... I add all of my I/O through I2C expansion boards... and love it.  Raspberry Pi4 will have multiple I2C channels for physical I/O.  I adopted Raspberry Pi because of the ease of UI development w/out having to do allot of baremetal programming (eg. Arduino).

    If Microsoft does not latch unto Raspberry Pi4 (I don't even care if they make the 2GB or 4GB model the minimum hardware required) quickly, it will signal to me that Win IoT Core is done (in the bad sense of the word). Rita's comments (or complete lack there of) mirror what those of us who spent money on the Windows Phone ecosystem dealt with.... no communication.... no development.... 

    Yeah, I'm a long time professional who's invested countless years adopting and adapting to Microsoft technologies, only to have allot of it deprecated or abandoned. WinIoT Core...I'm getting Deja Vu all over again.... However, good Raspberry Pi4 support (means a graphic driver, wifi, touch etc..) would keep me engaged...

    Meh, it doesn't matter.. no one is listening. We all know Microsoft is going to pull the rug out and let WinIoT Core stagnate. We are setting ourselves up for disappointment if we put to much hope in them supporting new Raspberry hardware. 3B+ tells us everything we need to know...



    • Edited by ODwyerPW Wednesday, August 14, 2019 12:14 AM
    Wednesday, August 14, 2019 12:09 AM
  • If MS doesn't immediately release a new Windows 10 IoT version that has full compatibility with RPi4 it will signal the death knell for Rpi4 as a platform for makers interested in Windows 10 IoT. Companies have to move FAST to compete in a market. RPi3B+ is still on hold, but there is now a very short window to recapture market for RPi4. If RPi4 has to wait, no makers will experiment with it for new projects. They need to do this NOW, without waiting for Azure IoT or other MS hosted cloud services; that can be added later. I believe that most makers aren't interested in Azure IoT anyway. If MS isn't able to get a huge team together to knock this out within no more than a month, then it's really very strong evidence that MS is really only interested cloud services that generate $ and aren't concerned with maker projects or high school STEM projects. MS has already lost the huge initial interest it had when Windows IoT was first released for RPi. MS needs to step up and recapture this market segment because makers and school kids are the very people that will be developing products in 10 years. And if Windows IoT is alien to them, they will not suggest it as an option when they graduate and get R&D jobs. Let's not make the same short sighted decisions that elevated Android and doomed Windows Mobile.
    I echo your sentiments.
    • Proposed as answer by KarlDroid Thursday, August 15, 2019 7:18 AM
    Wednesday, August 14, 2019 12:17 AM
  • Does anyone know if a project for the Pi 4 is possible using the microsoft kernel at all?

    Thursday, August 22, 2019 2:09 AM
  • For now I've completely given up on Win IOT Core on the Pi 4.

    To stay with C# and having a similar development experience using Visual Studio Code with full debugging, I'm now using the solution showcased by Scott Hanselman at https://www.hanselman.com/blog/RemoteDebuggingWithVSCodeOnWindowsToARaspberryPiUsingNETCoreOnARM.aspx.

    It remotely debugs .Net Core apps on Raspian (which anyway appears to be more stable than Win IOT Core, and will run on all new versions of Pi), and after some initial one-time setup overhead, works quite well. I just had to replace his code upload statement with another one to speed up the process (to only upload new and changed files, not all).

    If Microsoft does not get their ship in order, lots of people will migrate away from Win IOT core on Pi using similar approaches. Which will be a shame because it was such a powerful and ease-of-use environment.

    Otherwise, Microsoft should just formally give up on Windows IOT core, and give us a fully integrated and supported Raspbian .Net Core development solution via Visual Studio. Please...

    Thursday, August 22, 2019 9:56 PM
  • Hello Carlo A. Mendoza,

    We are excited to see the new RPi4 platform and are evaluating the numerous changes. Given the need for a new Raspbian OS, we do not expect the existing FFUs for Windows 10 IoT Core to be compatible with this platform.

    Best regards,

    Rita


    MSDN Community Support
    Please remember to click "Mark as Answer" the responses that resolved your issue, and to click "Unmark as Answer" if not. This can be beneficial to other community members reading this thread. If you have any compliments or complaints to MSDN Support, feel free to contact MSDNFSF@microsoft.com.

    This is a non-response and should be reported as useless. The original poster knows that the existing FFUs are not (fully) compatible.

    It is one of those cases when a moderator tries to check off their task list without actually responding because not knowing what to respond or unwilling to actually try to actively get a response from the engineering teams. Shameful.

    Monday, August 26, 2019 1:09 AM
  • If Microsoft does not get their ship in order, lots of people will migrate away from Win IOT core on Pi using similar approaches. Which will be a shame because it was such a powerful and ease-of-use environment.

    Otherwise, Microsoft should just formally give up on Windows IOT core, and give us a fully integrated and supported Raspbian .Net Core development solution via Visual Studio. Please...

    Just doing .net core 3.1 development on Raspbian via Visual Studio will leave us without a suitable presentation framework... I like UWP on Windows 10 IoT Core.... that won't carry over to a Raspbian .net core 3.x implementation..  
    Monday, August 26, 2019 8:56 PM
  • Hello Carlo A. Mendoza,

    We are excited to see the new RPi4 platform and are evaluating the numerous changes. Given the need for a new Raspbian OS, we do not expect the existing FFUs for Windows 10 IoT Core to be compatible with this platform.

    Best regards,

    Rita


    MSDN Community Support
    Please remember to click "Mark as Answer" the responses that resolved your issue, and to click "Unmark as Answer" if not. This can be beneficial to other community members reading this thread. If you have any compliments or complaints to MSDN Support, feel free to contact MSDNFSF@microsoft.com.

    This is a non-response and should be reported as useless. The original poster knows that the existing FFUs are not (fully) compatible.

    It is one of those cases when a moderator tries to check off their task list without actually responding because not knowing what to respond or unwilling to actually try to actively get a response from the engineering teams. Shameful.

    totally agree, I see it's already been reported, would be nice to be possible to downvote 
    Tuesday, August 27, 2019 7:05 AM
  • I gave up on win10 iot from the raspi 3b+ times.

    For anyone that wants .net, .net core is the way, with Xamarin or Web UI. Stable and with continuous development, not like windows 10 iot which I think address only the enterprise market. The main issue with iot core is that none of the suppliers put any effort in supporting it. Every raspberry that comes out has linux supported by the maker but windows 10 iot core should be supported by Microsoft, that I think tells the story that makers are not interested in having teams supporting more OS which means spending money without clear benefits.

    Tuesday, August 27, 2019 8:32 AM
  • I am wondering if Microsoft is looking for people to develop this as a project?

    The .NET framework is not going away anytime soon, it will be interesting to see if the Pi will support FFU etc (the 3B+) in the coming months.

    The Pi 4 needs development and perhaps they are looking at it as a managed project within the community?

    Wednesday, August 28, 2019 3:19 AM
  • Hello Microsoft.....!!! 

    We don't want to hear your canned BS response....We want you to get engaged in the conversation and give Us an answer..!!  I don't care, just tell the Us truth.....You can say you "don't know" too....that is better than what you have told use so far.

    Your current response is frankly insulting and dismissive.....Get your Butt moving and Either Lead, Follow, or Get the Hell out of the Way....!!    WE NEED A ANSWER PLEEEEASE...!!!  

     
    Wednesday, August 28, 2019 2:35 PM
  • Microsoft has ver bad reputation in this aspect.

    1. Silverlight

    2. Windows Phone

    3. we are not looking forward for raspberry PI 4 to take this spot.

    Wednesday, September 4, 2019 11:00 AM
  • Hello all,

    I'm quite close to the IoT ecosystem, thinking at the Industrial, automation etc market. I think that THIS is the real IoT market that could permit to have some income for a company.

    The Maker or STEM market is something that probably can't afford it.

    I don't have direct answer about IF or WHEN the RPI4 will be supported in IoT Core, but I can share my personal thinking:
    As you probably know Microsoft have done a big push supporting OTHER chipset and board in the ARM ecosystem with the i-MX family support. That direction is get back the kind of market previously owned by WinCE.

    I can't really think to prototype something REAL for industry based on the Raspberry hardware, for that reason I think that could be VERY UNLIKELY that we'll see an official RPI4 BSP from Microsoft.

    I repeat that this is only my personal consideration about the actual situation.

    Regards, ciao

    Marco Dal Pino

    Thursday, September 5, 2019 11:28 AM
  • Hello all,

    I came across this article maybe someone managed to test this?

    https://www.iottechtrends.com/install-windows10-iot-core-raspberry-pi/

    It says that it is possible to run rasp. pi 4 with iot core but i dont know if it is just scam.

    Regards,

    Karim

    Wednesday, September 11, 2019 11:38 AM
  • Didn't work for me. no display and no boot.
    Thursday, September 12, 2019 4:24 PM
  • If Microsoft does not continue Windows Iot Core evolution to get Raspberry Pi 4 fully supported then is better to look other products. I am waiting to try this one: Radxa had developed a new device called the Rock Pi X, and it features an Intel Atom x5-Z8300 CPU. 

    There will be two models, namely Rock Pi X model A and Rock Pi X model B with the following specifications:

    • SoC – Intel Atom x5-Z8300 “Cherry Trail” quad-core processor @ 1.44 GHz / 1.84 GHz (Turbo) with Intel Gen8 HD graphics @ 500 MHz
    • System Memory –  1 GB, 2 GB. or 4GB LPDDR3-1866
    • Storage – MicroSD card socket, eMMC flash socket
    • Video Output / Display I/F – HDMI 1.4 port up to 4K @ 30 Hz, eDP and MIPI DSI connectors
    • Audio I/O – Via HDMI, 3.5mm audio jack
    • Connectivity
      • Gigabit Ethernet
      • Model B only – 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac and Bluetooth 4.2 Classic + LE
    • USB – 1x USB 3.0 port, 3x USB 2.0 host ports, 1x USB OTG Type-C port
    • Camera I/F – MIPI CSI connector
    • Expansion – 40-pin Raspberry Pi compatible header with GPIOs, 2x ADC, 2x PWM, 2x I2C
    • Misc – RTC
    • Power Supply
      • 5V-20V up to 3A/1A Via USB-C port with QC and PD fast charging support;
      • AXP288C PMIC
      • Model B only – optional PoE support via additional HAT
    • Dimensions – 85 x 52 mm

    The biggest draw for the Rock Pi X would likely be the ability to install operating systems like a full Windows 10. And this is my hope, to have finally a Raspberry compatible board with Windows 10 supporting at least the same Raspberry add-on.

    Let's see in the next months.


    Moreno Borsalino

    Sunday, September 15, 2019 10:22 AM
  • Hello,
    I want to know if - iot - is compatible with raspberry pi 4?
      apparently it is not yet compatible. What is the information on it?
    Wednesday, September 18, 2019 6:17 PM
  • Hello SEBpi,

    I'll merge your question to since there is a same one about Raspberry Pi 4. You may get some update information about this issue here.

    Best Regards,

    Michael



    MSDN Community Support Please remember to click "Mark as Answer" the responses that resolved your issue, and to click "Unmark as Answer" if not. This can be beneficial to other community members reading this thread. If you have any compliments or complaints to MSDN Support, feel free to contact MSDNFSF@microsoft.com.

    Thursday, September 19, 2019 2:00 AM
    Moderator
  • We are in october 2019 and no one from MS is answering the main question!
    I think there are no future plans for Win Iot at the moment, just minimal support for paying customers of Iot pro.

    Rpi 4 and sons are for the moment out of plans.

    It's a big pity.

    I had to move to .Net Core 3 + Avalonia on Buster Os for pi4, not bad solution at all.

    Tuesday, October 1, 2019 10:31 AM
  • From another post:

    In general, Microsoft controls the porting of IoT Core. The internal IoT Core team works closely with processor and some board vendors to create BSPs. IoT Core support on NXP is a successful example. If the chip vendor and the board vendor don't see a need for IoT Core, then a port/BSP doesn't get done. I get the feeling Broadcom and the RPi Foundation are not Microsoft fans. The RPi drivers are open source (https://github.com/ms-iot/rpi-iotcore) so you could build on them, but that takes time and money. From my perspective, it appears more Broadcom and RPi Foundation than Microsoft on the lack of support.


    Sean Liming - Book Author: Starter Guide Windows 10 IoT Enterprise - www.annabooks.com / www.seanliming.com

    Wednesday, October 2, 2019 4:45 AM
  • From another post:

    In general, Microsoft controls the porting of IoT Core. The internal IoT Core team works closely with processor and some board vendors to create BSPs. IoT Core support on NXP is a successful example. If the chip vendor and the board vendor don't see a need for IoT Core, then a port/BSP doesn't get done. I get the feeling Broadcom and the RPi Foundation are not Microsoft fans. The RPi drivers are open source (https://github.com/ms-iot/rpi-iotcore) so you could build on them, but that takes time and money. From my perspective, it appears more Broadcom and RPi Foundation than Microsoft on the lack of support.


    A agree 100%. Probably not much help offered by RPF to MS for the porting. They have very small developer depmnt and it is engaged full time to Buster right now. Win Iot is not their target ... But, as always, the fault is in the middle.

    Wednesday, October 2, 2019 7:18 AM
  • I pressed Microsoft on whether Microsoft intended to support 3B+ or skip ahead to the Pi4. It went around in circles and eventually they gave me a straight answer. They "intended" to support the 3B+ but if the Pi4 arrived before that happened then it would most likely be skipped as the Pi4 would be prioritised.

    To be honest I'm a lot more interested in whether Windows IoT Mobile will be released for the Pi4. 

    A Pi4 with a SIM7600CE-T board is practically a mobile phone. I want nothing to do with Android, and Apple is just plain abusive of its customers. I would love to build a nav computer into my motorcycle with Cortana for voice control and just use Microsoft Maps same as I did on my Windows Phone. I don't actually need the visual aspect but you can't run Maps on IoT core.


    Pete


    • Edited by Peter Wone Monday, October 21, 2019 2:33 AM
    Thursday, October 17, 2019 10:46 AM
  • The Surface Phone finally turned up as the Surface Duo. It runs Android. Even though a Microsoftie explicitly told me that Pi4 was on the IoT roadmap, Panos Panay and Satya Nadella have gone on record saying that operating systems are diminishing in their importance to Microsoft. Which is a fancy way to say they lost interest because there's more money in corporate cloud. So don't hold your breath. I hope I'm wrong because Android is fundamentally broken not to mention riddled with Google spyware and I'd love to replace my Windows Phone with a Pi4, a SIM7600CE-T and IoT Mobile Enterprise which has Cortana (for voice control) and Microsoft Maps (GPS nav with driving instructions).

    Pete


    • Edited by Peter Wone Thursday, October 17, 2019 11:02 AM
    Thursday, October 17, 2019 10:55 AM
  • For the longest time I struggled with problems parallel to what you describe, with the dotnet micro-framework on Arm7. Eventually I gave up and learnt to program Arduinos with C. I was very surprised to find that it wasn't any harder. In a resource constrained embedded controller you end up statically allocating and pre-initialising everything anyway to avoid GC freezes and to be certain there's enough space for peak demand. This style pushes you toward primitive datatypes. As a result apart from arrays there's hardly any difference between the code for a state machine in C# and a state machine in C. 

    On the Pi I refuse to use Python which is what pushed me toward WinIoT and C#, and having Cortana available for voice control was a luxury I did not expect, but compared to software written in C on Raspbian with the junk disabled WinIoT performance is dismal.

    A Pi4 has the horsepower to make WinIoT worthwhile but if they don't pull the finger out, people will learn to program in C on Linux and lose interest in C#.

    When I use a Pi as a tiny workstation I usually write the UI as a SPA and use Firefox as the shell. The spa is served out of dotnet core which is pretty much host agnostic and could be on the Pi or (usually) elsewhere on a server which could run Linux or Windows depending mostly on database driver availability.


    Pete




    • Edited by Peter Wone Monday, October 21, 2019 2:54 AM
    Monday, October 21, 2019 2:50 AM
  • Agree as well. Even the Raspberry PI 3B was flaky with support lacking, and video didn't work (maybe still doesn't) through the HDMI port. I created a UWP thermostat with the 3B a year ago and that required a screen to be attached to the board to get any UI experience. Maybe they fixed that in the last year, but if they can't even get the HDMI port to work with the Raspberry PI in a timely manner, we shouldn't expect much support. There are a lot of other options for boards, operating systems, and programming languages.

    It's unfortunate, because the UWP apps are very easy to make and there are a lot of cool things you can do there with the PI 4 being much more powerful now. It could be great, but maybe there just isn't enough money there for someone involved.

    A square peg can't be shoved through a round hole, unless you really MacGyver it.

    **Commented via Raspberry PI 4**

    Tuesday, October 29, 2019 3:16 PM
  • I came across this response from a developer of Raspberry Pi (Trading) LTD on a Raspberry Pi Forum:

    Re: when will Raspberry pi 4 + windows 10

    Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:49 pm

    Raspberry Pi (Trading) isn't doing anything to implement Windows on the Pi. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.

    And as far as I know, MS have not been in contact asking any questions about the pi4 hardware at all. I am sure we would help them if they asked.

    So read in to that what you will.
    Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
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    Thursday, October 31, 2019 10:49 PM
  • I think the real answer to Microsoft's stance can be found in the RPi-IoTCore GitHub README.ME

    https://github.com/ms-iot/rpi-iotcore/blob/master/README.md

    Even though Microsoft has dropped it like a bad habit, others are still doing stuff with it. If you want to see a cool project, look no farther than Atlas-Scientific.  

    Atlas-Scientific Atlas-IoT Software

    Just shows what is possible under the RaspberryPi3A.... I use this software.... I like the UWP front-end and the use of cards.... However, because of the lack of driver optimization... it's slow from a UI standpoint. I have the an RTD, pH Probe and Flow Meter hookedup to it...IF you watch the Video you can see the software in action... 


    Thursday, October 31, 2019 11:22 PM
  • Well now... hasn't this turned into an interesting thread.

     

    I remember when it started, back in June. I even forwarded it to some people who should know. So I can assure you these conversations do sometimes get to the right people, one way or another.

     

    Could the most active and motivated of you please add me on LinkedIn, and drop me a note why you're adding. I'd like to keep in touch with you.

     

    All the best,
    Pete

     


    #PEJL
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    Thursday, October 31, 2019 11:39 PM
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  • I think the real answer to Microsoft's stance can be found in the RPi-IoTCore GitHub README.ME

    https://github.com/ms-iot/rpi-iotcore/blob/master/README.md

    I guess the community will just have to add support for the RPi 4 to the BSP and UEFI. To be continued...

    Friday, November 1, 2019 9:08 PM
  • Just to be clear, The Linux distribution most used on the Raspberry, Raspian, is maintained by a non profit organisation that is seperate from the The raspberry Pi foundation.

    There has been a tendency over the years for 'software ecosystems' to detach themselves from underlying hardware and the bare bones OS.

    Microsoft have tried, with massive projects, to make Windows cross platform. PowerPC processors, DEC strong ARM, INTEL's 64 bit architecture, and more recently small ARM processors from the mobile world have all been targets of major projects which lasted for years. All these ports failed to go mainstream.

    So my guess would be that Microsoft is now 'going with the herd' and concentrating on a cross platform ecosytem rather than porting it's legacy windows platfrom to other devices.

    And that cross platform ecosystem has a name; .Net core.

    Instead of asking when MS will be ipgrading W10IoT for the Raspberry, I think posters should be asking when there is going to be a full .Net Core SDK, with support for GUI, included in the Raspian distribution ;-)

    Thursday, November 21, 2019 7:02 AM