none
Symbols being Changed Automatically RRS feed

  • Question

  • I have noticed that EW4 has automatically placed a very annoying symbol into several places on my pages.  The  � replaces all of the copyright symbols and some other places also.  I noticed some bullets changed to this  � as well.  I see back in 2008 there was a brief discussion on the issue (the link below), but I do not see a good resolution. 

    http://social.expression.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/web/thread/7e851b3c-62aa-4e9f-8010-e21954a81adb/?prof=required&ppud=4

    The suggestion is to manually change each place this occurs.  Because it is not only the copyright symbol changing, I can NOT run a replace all.  This means I would have to look for this  � on every single page (possibly multiple places on pages).  This is actually a HUGE problem.  If Expression web could not read a simple copyright symbol or bullet, why did it not just leave it alone.  Why would it change to symbols that are absolutely meaningless?  Why would it be better to have on my pages  �

    Why can't expression web know the symbols used in Front Page and convert them to the proper code for that same symbol in the new format?  Rather then change to something with no meaning.

    IS THERE A FIX TO THIS ISSUE OTHER THEN MANUALLY CLEANING UP THE CHANGES MADE BY EXPRESSION WEB?

    Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:48 AM

Answers

  • Do you have "Find in Source Code" checked?

    If you do, and still Find/Replace is having trouble matching � use a regular expression instead.

    Check the Regular Expression box and try:

    Find what:

    <font size="2" face="Times New Roman">.+ 1999-2010 Apparel Search Company

    Replace with:

    <font size="2" face="Times New Roman">&copy; 1999-2010 Apparel Search Company

     

    See if that works.

    Thursday, June 17, 2010 5:07 PM
  • You're beating a dead horse here. Every page you cite lacks a doctype and text encoding metadata. It has been repeatedly explained that EW defaults to UTF-8 unless otherwise specified, which is changing things. The original thread you referred to gave suggestions of how to avoid this when you open a page in EW, and clearly said not to save any changes until it displayed correctly. If you are publishing the pages with EW, you need to make sure the encoding is correct before you publish. And, it doesn't do any good to criticize EW on standards compliance, because clearly your pages are what are lacking in compliance. A little effort before publishing could fix that.

    Jim

    Thursday, June 24, 2010 3:43 PM

All replies

  • Something to keep in mind, the actual symbol for a copyright is &copy; in HTML. You often see strange symbols because it is trying to render the binary equivalent and messing up. That's why you don't copy and paste special characters, or things such as bullets. These are often transformed before they even reach EW as they can be botched when getting onto the clipboard. This is not just an EW problem, it has been indicitive of WYSIWYG editors for ages. Always try to insert symbols using the editor and not the copy and paste. When you copy and paste in something with bullets, best to re-define things as a bulleted list and remove the old bullets. Otherwise, it's not often deemed a bulleted list and the copy and paste tries to paste in some odd character that would resemble a bullet but isn't appropriate for web browsers.
    Wednesday, June 16, 2010 12:44 PM
  • I don't know what you used to post to this forum but most of your post is so small I can't read it. It looks like approximately 4pt type on a printed page. Other parts are mor or less normal size but whatever you are using I'd suggest that you fix its output so that it isn't so tiny if you want much help on this group.

    I don't have EW changing my symbols so how about posting a link to a page you have where the problem is occuring, even if it is just a temporary link in a testing folder somewhere.

    Second, what encoding are you using and what are your EW settings?


    MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com
    Wednesday, June 16, 2010 2:14 PM
  • Very sorry about the small text issue.  I had cut and paste the example of the symbol that replaced my copyright symbol.  I then started typing in the field on this form and the font stayed in the small version.

    Your question "Second, what encoding are you using and what are your EW settings?"  Not sure.  I assume it is a default.  I am not familiar with encoding and have not on purpose made any adjustments.  Is there an encoding method I should be using that would correct the problem?

    Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:14 PM
  • We have no idea what your HTML looks like.  See Mark's post for what it *should* look like for a copyright symbol.  If it's anything else, use Find/Replace to fix it.
    Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:25 PM
  • Here is example of code when viewing with EW4, <font size="2" face="Times New Roman">� 1999-2010 Apparel Search Company.&nbsp; All Rights Reserved.

    Here is the code as it was originally, <font size="2" face="Times New Roman">© 1999-2010 Apparel Search Company.&nbsp; All Rights Reserved.

    Example, at the very bottom of this page. http://www.apparelsearch.com/cashmere.htm (this is how it was previously visible).  I have not yet uploaded the page as it now looks from Expression Web.

    Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:08 AM
  • I don't know what sequence of actions you took that changed the symbol (looks like a change in encoding?), but to avoid the problem, you should not be using a copyright symbol in Code View.  You should be using what Mark said:  &copy;  That is the HTML for the copyright symbol.

    (Your linked page has no doctype, by the way.  I hope you have fixed that in the page you are working on.)

    Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:22 AM
  • By default EW uses UTF encoding while FrontPage used a Windows characterset. You can try explicitly setting the characterset to ISO 8859-1  but you'd be better off cledaning all of the font & other depreciated code out and then using &copy; for your copyright notice.
    MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com
    Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:55 AM
  • IS THERE A FIX TO THIS ISSUE OTHER THEN MANUALLY CLEANING UP THE CHANGES MADE BY EXPRESSION WEB?

    Yes. Don't use special characters in code view. Use HTML character entities instead.

    That's not your only issue by far. You're not using FP anymore. EW is not FP, and it attempts to produce standards-compliant markup. Markup such as <font size="2" face="Times New Roman"> is deprecated, and has been for a l-o-o-n-g time now. There are books, blogs, articles, tutorials, etc. all over the place on migrating from FrontPage. You might want to check a few out.

    cheers,
    scott


    C'mon, folks. This isn't rocket science, nor neurosurgery. It's "Expression" (singular) "Web" (singular), in that order, followed by a version numeral if you wish to be specific. It is often abbreviated "EW." It is not "Web Expression," "Expressions Web," "Web Expressions," or plain "Expression" or "Expressions." Not using the correct name indicates either ignorance or laziness. Most folks would rather avoid the appearance of either.
    Thursday, June 17, 2010 3:45 AM
  • When copying and pasting from another program always use "Paste as
    Text" and then add formatting and special characters in EW.

    Regards Jens Peter Karlsen.
    On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 11:48:42 +0000, ApparelSearch wrote:

    I have noticed that EW4 has automatically placed a very annoying symbol into several places on my pages.  The ***�*replaces all of the copyright


    Regards Jens Peter Karlsen.
    Thursday, June 17, 2010 10:14 AM
  • I am trying to do a replace all but I have ran it three times and for some reason it does not find any pages with the �* However, when I look at the page in design view it is clearly there.

    In design view I highlight the section I wish to change, I move to code view and click Edit then Find.

    Original:  <font size="2" face="Times New Roman">�

    Replace All with the following:  <font size="2" face="Times New Roman">&copy;

    I run the replace all (I check the find in source), and it finds no occurences.  I am not sure how it finds no occurences because I highlighed the code directly from one of the pages.

    Regarding Migrating from Front Page to Expression Web, I have unfortunately taken no steps yet to do so.  I have recently started with Expression Web and have had nothing but challenges.  I am not sure which of the migration steps is most important.  Which step would you attempt "first".  My major problem is that it appears that much of the migration requires "manually" adjusting one page at a time.  I have approx. 27,000 pages.  I would be a huge task for me to try to change each page one issue at a time.  Is there one most crucial thing that I should attempt first?

    Thursday, June 17, 2010 11:33 AM
  • Do you have "Find in Source Code" checked?

    If you do, and still Find/Replace is having trouble matching � use a regular expression instead.

    Check the Regular Expression box and try:

    Find what:

    <font size="2" face="Times New Roman">.+ 1999-2010 Apparel Search Company

    Replace with:

    <font size="2" face="Times New Roman">&copy; 1999-2010 Apparel Search Company

     

    See if that works.

    Thursday, June 17, 2010 5:07 PM
  • Yes, I was originally using the "find in source code".  I have tried your suggestion and clicked the "check regular expression box" and tried to search, <font size="2" face="Times New Roman">.+ 1999-2010 Apparel Search Company

    It came up with no occurrences.  However, I just realized my possible mistake.  I see now you can check BOTH the "find in source code" and the "check regular expression box" at the same time.  This method has worked.  Thank you.

    This appears to have fixed the copyright at the bottom of each of my pages (my own copyright section).  Now, I am still faced with the problem of that same � in different areas of pages.  Unfortunately, EW4 also changed registration marks, some bullets, and not sure what else (also other copyright marks used in news articles and other places on pages).  Those are going to be more difficult for me to correct.  The copyright was good because most of them appeared at the bottom of each page and had the same text next to the copyright.

    Anyway, thank you for helping me clean up the copyright that was on each page.  That was very helpful.

    Friday, June 18, 2010 10:29 AM
  • I am still having big troubles with this issue.  I am finding that these crazy symbols are on MANY of my pages.  They are mixed in the text all over the place.  The checking the Regular Expression Box does not appear to work.  I have tried find all several times, but it does not find the symbol � unless I have a page open with that symbol on it.  I can not do a replace all and replace the darn thing with a blank space.  It is driving me crazy.  I really do not understand why the EW4 program would be adding this symbol in so many places.  It does not even appear to just be replacing symbols or bullets.  It looks like it is some times just in random places.

    For example, the symbols are all over the page at Henry Grethel 2009 (http://72.3.135.68/News/Articles/Events/2009/May/Henry_Grethel_Icon_of_Style_Award_Syracuse_University_5.8.09.htm)

    The darn thing appears 4 times even in the first paragraph.  How am I supposed to deal with this???  This program was supposed to help make sites better, and this issue alone is causing big problems.  Again, EW4 places all of these garbage symbols all over my site.  When I run the find all, it want even help me track down where the software added them.  This is turning into a real big problem.  Any suggestions?  If anyone from Microsoft is reading this PLEASE HELP.  Or if anyone else knows a solution please let me know.

    I even see on the page above it changed the apostrophe in the word "men's" and "women's".

    And please do not say this is my fault for using old code.  There is absolutely no reason for this software to replace old code with a group of symbols that have no meaning what so ever.

    Tuesday, June 22, 2010 1:44 AM
  • " I have tried find all several times, but it does not find the symbol � unless I have a page open with that symbol on it. "

    Well, it would if you have "Current Page" checked under "Find where:"

    Look at ALL the options you are setting for your Find request.

     

    "And please do not say this is my fault for using old code.  There is absolutely no reason for this software to replace old code with a group of symbols that have no meaning what so ever."

    Please stop complaining to us.  WE ARE NOT MICROSOFT.  Annoying people who are trying to help you is a sure way to cause people to stop answering you.

    Tuesday, June 22, 2010 2:13 AM
  • point about complaints is noted. 

    It is understood that clicking "current page" helps me find what is on the current page (page I have opened).  What I need to figure out is how to find the symbols on pages that are not opened.  I do not want to have to open and fix one page at a time.  I was hoping for another way.  I am wondering why a "find all" would not search all the pages to find the symbols.  Fixing one page at a time for 20,000 plus pages will take me forever.  I will unfortunately have to do this, but I am hoping for a better method to try first.  If you have suggestions please let me know.

    Tuesday, June 22, 2010 10:31 AM
  • You click "All pages" instead of "Current page".
    Tuesday, June 22, 2010 12:40 PM
  • "In design view I highlight the section I wish to change, I move to code view and click Edit then Find."

    So why are you even bothering to search in code view. Find... in design view works fine. I pasted the weird characters into a few pages and had no problem with EW finding them.

    "And please do not say this is my fault for using old code."

    As noted above, your pages don't have a doctype specified, and I notice that there is no character encoding specified either. What you do have is lots of stuff styled with MS Office (FP), which is not standards compliant. Honestly, it's kind of surprising that you aren't experiencing more problems. At the very least you need to give each page a doctype and character encoding. I'm not sure why the mystery characters are showing up, but that would be a good start to preventing future problems.

    Jim

    Tuesday, June 22, 2010 4:13 PM
  • It is quite possible that just supplying a characterset of windows-1252 or  ISO 8859-1  will fix the problem though a missing doctype can also cause display issues.

    Did you try that on any of the pages you are having the issue with as I suggested earlier? I can't test it because the only page you supplied a link to http://www.apparelsearch.com/cashmere.htm shows the copyright symbol correctly for me in IE 8.


    MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com
    Tuesday, June 22, 2010 5:46 PM
  • Yeah, the copyright shows up fine in FF also. However, on this page http://72.3.135.68/News/Articles/Events/2009/May/Henry_Grethel_Icon_of_Style_Award_Syracuse_University_5.8.09.htm ) it appears that  all quotes and apostrophes are being changed.

    Jim

    Tuesday, June 22, 2010 6:12 PM
  • Jim,

    All I get on the Syracuse link you provided is a blank page in IE 8 at least until I tried a view source after almost a full minute (came back and started this post while waiting) when it suddenly popped in.

    After looking at the code I'm surprised the thing every appeared:

    <td width="86%" valign="top">
          <div>
      <div>
       <span class="799093714-08102007">
       <div>
        <div>
         <div class="Wj3C7c">
          <div>
           <div>
            <div>
             <div>
              <span class="476592116-01022008">
              <div class="moduleContainer" id="genericContainer0">
               <div id="ndmContainer0">
                <div id="releaseMain0">
                 <div id="ndmPage0">
                  <div id="ndmContent0">
                   <div id="story0">
                    <div class="Section1">
                     <div class="Section1">
                      <div class="Section1">
                       <div>
                        <div>
                         <div>
                          <div>
                           <div class="Section1">
     <div class="Section1">
      <div class="Section1">
       <div class="Section1">
      <div dir="ltr" align="left">
       <div class="Section1">
        <div class="Section1">
         <div class="Section1">
          <font FACE="Verdana">
          <div class="Section1">
     <table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" id="table1254">
      <tr>
       <td><!--webbot bot="PurpleText" PREVIEW="Google Adsense" --><script type="text/javascript"><!--
    google_ad_client = "pub-8759272231916907";
    /* 728x90, created 2/21/08 */
    google_ad_slot = "6221247159";
    google_ad_width = 728;
    google_ad_height = 90;
    //-->
    </script><script type="text/javascript"
    src="http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/show_ads.js">
    </script></td>
      </tr>
     </table>
            <div class="Section1">
             <font size="2">
       <img src="http://static.delicious.com/img/delicious.small.gif" height="10" width="10" alt="Delicious">
       <a onclick="window.open('http://delicious.com/save?v=5&amp;noui&amp;jump=close&amp;url='+encodeURIComponent(location.href)+'&amp;title='+encodeURIComponent(document.title), 'delicious','toolbar=no,width=550,height=550'); return false;" href="http://delicious.com/save">
             Bookmark this on Delicious</a></font><div>
              <br>
              Renowned designer and <b>Syracuse University
              alumnus Henry Grethel</b>
              will be honored with the 2009 Icon of Style Award
              at �Vision with Action,� the New York City
              senior juried fashion show of SU�s College of
              Visual and Performing Arts (VPA), on <font color="#000080"><b>
              Wednesday, June 3, at 7 p.m.</b></font>
              at JPMorgan Chase, 270 Park Ave., 50th floor. The
              show will feature the top collections from fashion
              design seniors in VPA�s School of Art and Design
              as previously selected by a jury of industry
              professionals and design faculty.<br>
              <br>
              <a target="_blank" href="http://vpa.syr.edu/">
              VPA</a> held its first juried New York City
              fashion show in 2008 to expose to designers and
              the media the high quality of design and
              craftsmanship created at SU. The college has
              presented an annual fashion show on the SU campus
              for more than 20 years.<br>
              <br>
              The college created the Icon of Style Award to
              honor those individuals in the fashion industry
              who are bold, innovative and visionary. The
              inaugural award was presented in 2008 to VPA
              alumna Emme, a prominent model, author, lecturer,
              clothing designer and women�s advocate.<br>
              <br>
              Grethel, a designer, merchandiser and marketer, is
              president of HG Designs International. Known for
              deftly combining the casual, modern essence of
              American sportswear with sophisticated colors and
              fine fabrics, he was an early factor in business
              casual clothing and remains a vital, creative
              force designing for the rapidly evolving
              lifestyles and priorities of today�s consumer. <br>
              <br>
              Grethel�s marketing education and vast business
              experience have made him an entrepreneurial
              concept creator and product producer. In addition
              to holding executive positions at such major
              apparel companies as C.F. Hathaway, Eagle
              Shirtmakers and Manhattan Industries, he
              originated and developed the John Henry brand in
              men�s and women�s wear prior to debuting his
              own collections for men and women. His
              interconnected trademarks�Henry Grethel�,
              Equipment by Henry Grethel�, Henry Grethel
              Platinum� and Henry Grethel
              Studio��represent originality, creativity and
              salability.<br>
              <br>
              Grethel has received numerous honors for marketing
              and design, including membership in the
              prestigious Council of Fashion Designers of
              America. He was also selected to design the
              opening ceremony uniforms for Team USA at the
              Albertville and Barcelona Olympic Games. For more
              about Grethel, visit
              <a href="http://www.joanhansen.com/henry_grethel1.html">
              http://www.joanhansen.com/henry_grethel1.html</a><span lang="en-us">.</span><br>
              <br>
              Tickets for the show are $175 for preferred
              seating and pre-show reception at 6 p.m.; $75 for
              admission to the show only; and $44 for admission
              to the show only for current SU students and SU
              alumni who graduated from �05��09. Tickets
              may be purchased May 11�29 at
              http://invite.syr.edu/vision. Seating is limited.<br>
              <br>
              Focused on design and creative development,
              VPA�s fashion design program offers an
              intellectually stimulating environment with a
              global perspective. This, coupled with practical
              and theoretical skills, technology and the study
              of the cultural context in which fashion exists,
              provides a broad-based education in fashion. In
              addition to Grethel and Emme, notable alumni from
              SU and the fashion design program include Betsey
              Johnson, Donald Brooks, Tom and Linda Platt, Lisa
              Kline and Danna Weiss.<br>
              <br>
              VPA is committed to the education of cultural
              leaders who will engage and inspire audiences
              through performance, visual art, design,
              scholarship and commentary. The college provides
              the tools for self-discovery and risk-taking in an
              environment that thrives on critical thought and
              action. Learn more at <a href="http://vpa.syr.edu">
              http://vpa.syr.edu</a></div>
             <p>
             &nbsp;</div>
     <div>
        <table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" bgcolor="#000000" id="table1255">
         <tr>
          <td><span lang="en-us">
       <span class="799093714-08102007">
              <span class="476592116-01022008">
              <b>
     <font color="#FFFF00" size="2" face="Verdana">&nbsp;<a href="../../../../../trade_show.htm"><font color="#FFFFFF">Fashion
          Trade Shows</font></a></font></b></span></span></span></td>
         </tr>
        </table>
        <p class="MsoNormal">
      <span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: Arial; color: black">&nbsp;&nbsp;
      </span><span lang="en-us">
      <font color="#FFFF00" size="2" face="Verdana"><b>
     &nbsp; </b></font></span>
      <span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: Arial; color: black">
      <a href="../../../../Directory/Categories/Fashion_Week_News_Directory.htm">
        More fashion event news</a>.&nbsp;
      <a href="http://www.fashionweekdirectory.com">Fashion Week Directory</a><br>
        &nbsp;</span></div>
          </div>
            </font></div>
        </div>
        <table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" bgcolor="#000000" id="table1256">
         <tr>
          <td>&nbsp;</td>
         </tr>
        </table>
        <p class="MsoNormal">
          <span lang="en-us"><font face="Verdana">
      <font size="2">
      <a href="../../../Archive/2009/fashion_news_article_archive_2009.htm">
        2009 Fashion Industry Articles</a></font></font></span><br>
        &nbsp;<table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" bgcolor="#000000" id="table1261">
         <tr>
          <td>&nbsp;</td>
         </tr>
        </table>
        <p class="MsoNormal">
          <span lang="en-us"><font face="Verdana" size="2">
      <a href="../../FASHION_EVENT_TRADE_SHOW_ARTICLES.htm">Fashion Event Articles</a>&nbsp; <a href="../../2008/FASHION_EVENT_ARTICLES_2008.htm">
        Fashion Event Articles 2008</a>&nbsp;
      <a href="../../2007/FASHION_EVENT_NEWS_ARTICLES_2007.htm">Fashion Event Articles
        2007</a>&nbsp;
      <a href="../../2006/TRADE_SHOW_ARTICLES_2006.htm">Fashion Event Articles 2006</a></font></span><br>
        &nbsp;</div>
      </div>
      <font SIZE="2">
      <table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" id="table1257">
       <tr>
        <td colspan="3" bgcolor="#000000">
        <p style="margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 5px"><b>
        <span lang="en-us">
        <font color="#D5F5D3" face="Verdana" size="2">Search for additional
        information about Apparel, Fashion or Clothing ...</font></span></b></td>
       </tr>
       <tr>
        <td bgcolor="#FFFFFF" width="3%"><a href="http://www.apparelsearch.com/">
        <img border="0" src="images/bouncingball.gif" width="28" height="50"
        alt="follow the bouncing fashion ball from Apparel Search"></a></td>
        <td bgcolor="#FFFFFF" width="63%">
          <font size="3">
              &nbsp;<table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" id="table1258">
         <tr>
          <td>
          <form id="searchbox_005456871628996339175:9ialwwpvyp1" action="http://www.ApparelSearch.com/Search/Apparel_Search_Co-op.htm">
           <input type="hidden" name="cx0" value="005456871628996339175:9ialwwpvyp0">
           <p align="center">
           <input name="q0" type="text" size="30">
           <input type="submit" name="sa0" value="Apparel Search" style="color: #FF0000; font-weight: bold">
           <input type="hidden" name="cof0" value="FORID:11">
           </p>
          </form>
          </td>
         </tr>
        </table>
          </font>
    <!-- SiteSearch Google --></td>
        <td width="33%" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
        <p align="center"><font SIZE="2">
        <span lang="en-us"><a href="http://www.apparelsearch.com">
        <img border="0" src="images/Apparel_Search_Logo_Small_W.gif" width="144"
        height="123" alt="Apparel Search guide to fashion and clothing"></a></span></font></td>
       </tr>
      </table>
          </font>
            </div>
      </div>
     </div>
                           </div>
                          </div>
                         </div>
                        </div>
                       </div>
                      </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                   </div>
                  </div>
                 </div>
                </div>
               </div>
              </div></span></div>
            </div>
           </div>
          </div>
         </div>
        </div>
       </div>
       </span></div>
      </div>
     </td>

    I can't remember the last time I saw a page that was so badly written and if that offends the OP, well so be it. Modern browsers are less tolerant of bad code than older versions of IE.

    Contrast that mess with http://wiserways.net/apparel/index.html which uses transitional methods. Transitional methods means reducing but not eliminating the use of tables for layout and moving just the formatting to CSS during a phased update to modern css based layouts. I stuck with an HTML 4.01 transitional doctype for that reason. If I were redoing the site I'd make a lot more changes than I did.


    MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com
    • Edited by Cheryl D Wise Tuesday, June 22, 2010 10:20 PM followed up with additional info
    Tuesday, June 22, 2010 7:02 PM
  • fcphdJim wrote "So why are you even bothering to search in code view. Find... in design view works fine. I pasted the weird characters into a few pages and had no problem with EW finding them."

    I thought I had tried that a few times and failed. However, I just tried and it appears to be working.  I think my problem was that I did not leave the page open.  When I check the "all pages" I may have closed the page thinking that it did not need to be open because the software was going to search all pages.  However, I think that I need at least one page open even though I click the "all pages". Anyway, it appears to have worked and found over 36,000 occurrences of the symbol (found in 8065 pages).

    Now that I have found the symbols, I wonder what is the best way to remove them.  Some may be from copyright, registration, bullets, etc. and some appear to be rather random in the middle of text and does not look like it is replacing a specific character.  If I "replace all" with a blank space, I may wind up with blank spaces in inappropriate places.

    Cheryl D Wise: I like what you did to condense the code for that one page.  Unfortunately, I do not know how to do what you did.  I do not really know how to use EW4.  I wish I had someone that lived near me to show me how to use the program.  How long did it take you to re-do that one page?  Did you have to re-write any code or does EW4 do most of the work?  How long do you think it would take to fix 27 thousand pages in a similar manner?

    Wednesday, June 23, 2010 12:52 AM
  • I just ran the find all again for �, and now it found over 56,000 occurences in 11557 pages. This time I ran the search with both the Regular Expression Box checked and the Find in source code box checked.  

    Wednesday, June 23, 2010 2:00 AM
  • You're acting all helpless rather than taking charge. That's no way to solve problems.

    Don't know how to use EW--now's the time to learn. Or, better yet (faster, anyway) hire someone to do it who knows.

    "I wish I had someone that lived near me to show me how to use the program."You do have someone near you, unless you live in Timbuktu. Put an ad in Craigslist, check the community college for courses, put an ad on your own site, etc. Common sense solutions. AND...it's not EW you need to learn--it's HTML, CSS, etc. You can learn it all in Dreamweaver or Notepad and apply it in EW. I learned word processing on a mainframe with a green and black screen. But now I use Word that has a zillion features I was never taught about.

    How long would it take to fix 27,000 pages? Why bother? Start with your new ones based on one well-designed DWT. Let the old pages die and replace them with the new. Or fix the old ones during slow times. It doesn't have to be done at once. But the "woe is me" doesn't address the issues.


    I dream of a better world...a world in which a chicken can cross the road without its motives being questioned.
    Wednesday, June 23, 2010 3:33 AM


































  • fcphdJim wrote "So why are you even bothering to search in code view. Find... in design view works fine. I pasted the weird characters into a few pages and had no problem with EW finding them."

    I thought I had tried that a few times and failed. However, I just tried and it appears to be working.  I think my problem was that I did not leave the page open.  When I check the "all pages" I may have closed the page thinking that it did not need to be open because the software was going to search all pages.  However, I think that I need at least one page open even though I click the "all pages". Anyway, it appears to have worked and found over 36,000 occurrences of the symbol (found in 8065 pages).

    Now that I have found the symbols, I wonder what is the best way to remove them.  Some may be from copyright, registration, bullets, etc. and some appear to be rather random in the middle of text and does not look like it is replacing a specific character.  If I "replace all" with a blank space, I may wind up with blank spaces in inappropriate places.

    Cheryl D Wise : I like what you did to condense the code for that one page.  Unfortunately, I do not know how to do what you did.  I do not really know how to use EW4.  I wish I had someone that lived near me to show me how to use the program.  How long did it take you to re-do that one page?  Did you have to re-write any code or does EW4 do most of the work?  How long do you think it would take to fix 27 thousand pages in a similar manner?


    Just an illustration of how much this accursed forum software SUCKS!

    All those blockquotes were produced simply by hitting Enter, starting at the default cursor location when "Quote" was clicked to begin a reply. Look at the source, and each contains exactly one <br /> tag.

    Jeezus, what a crappy, terrible excuse for an editor!

     


    C'mon, folks. This isn't rocket science, nor neurosurgery. It's "Expression" (singular) "Web" (singular), in that order, followed by a version numeral if you wish to be specific. It is often abbreviated "EW." It is not "Web Expression," "Expressions Web," "Web Expressions," or plain "Expression" or "Expressions." Not using the correct name indicates either ignorance or laziness. Most folks would rather avoid the appearance of either.
    Wednesday, June 23, 2010 3:56 AM
  • When I looked at the page I was quite confuse because there were a lot of classes & IDs used but no reference to an external stylesheet. It looked like some sort of CMS application. Which with the number of pages you are talking about it really should be using.

    As for how long it too me, probably 15-20 minutes but that isn't how I'd do it if I had a large site to clean-up. I'd go straight to full standards and frankly, I'd redesign the page. It is far too wide for browsing comfort.  I'd being it down to no more than 970px wide so it would fit in an 1024 browser though I'd probably make it even a little narrower than that.

    I'd use a dropdown menu grouping into fewer categories such as one for Fashion Week at the top level and the various other related parts in a submenu under it.

    For a site about fashion it is very plain jane with the only visual elements being provided by ads, too many of them animated for my tastes.


    MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com
    Wednesday, June 23, 2010 5:34 AM
  • All of your positive or negative critisism is noted and agreed. My site does need many improvements. I also should take classes on style sheets and HTML etc. Although I build a web site I am not a web developer. I have an untelated full time job. Back to the point of this discussion topic, regardless of my existing code (which happens to have been created with a Microsoft product) EW4 should NOT have changed existing code to junk symbols. I think we can all be in agreement that the software should have either fixed code or left it alone. It certainly did not help in anyway by adding unreadable symbols in the middle of my pages. The junk is not even hidden in the code. It actually is in full display fit all to see on my pages. Now I spent three days investigating solutions and the best answer in my opinion is to manually delete these symbols. Again, although the code was bulky the pages displayed fine on the Internet prior to EW4. Now the pages have meaningless symbols and I had made zero design and zero code changes. Therefore, I think Microsoft needs to take corrective action so this mess does not happen to other people.
    Wednesday, June 23, 2010 8:15 PM
  • Cheryl D : you pointed out that Apparel Search is Plain Jane. I could not agree with you more. My original intention was no graphics at all, but I slipped into it over the years. If you are interested in fashion, you can check my more "fashionable" site at http://www.fashionindustrynetwork.com it looks better because I did not do the code ...
    Wednesday, June 23, 2010 8:28 PM
  • I'm sorry but no Microsoft program will add all of those divs w/o explicitly being told to do so. The MSONormal ____ comes from Office programs which should not be used for web design at all even if they do offer the export to html.

    Merely opening a site in Expression Web won't change code but will change the display if there is no characterset assigned because EW uses UTF-8 by default. There have been very few reports of any sort of change of characters because of that, less than you can count on your fingers in the over 4 years that EW has been available.

    Why your pages were hit, I have no clue and doubt that anyone else does either. Somewhere along the line something became corrupt. It happens and I've had it happen on sites that worked fine one day and quit working correctly the next without anyone opening a single page in a web editor. Usually it is a case of some server update that did it under those circumstances.

    MS can only take action when there is a reproducable case. Several of us tried to reproduce the behavior you reported but not one of us could. What more can I say.


    MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com
    Wednesday, June 23, 2010 8:55 PM
  • Cheryl D Wise: your comments, "Merely opening a site in Expression Web won't change code but will change the display if there is no characterset assigned because EW uses UTF-8 by default. There have been very few reports of any sort of change of characters because of that, less than you can count on your fingers in the over 4 years that EW has been available."

    Possibly you can archive the following two pages for future study.  I am going to be making updates to pages and the one at the IP # I will be correcting.  After I have the new server set the other ApparelSearch.com version will be taken offline.

    http://72.3.135.68/world_clothing_industry/turkey/turkey_2.htm

    http://www.apparelsearch.com/World_Clothing_Industry/turkey/turkey_2.htm

    I have been manually removing symbols and still have over 55 thousand occurances in 11 thousand pages.

    I can assure you that I had not typed onto my pages "K�z�l"  But as you can see it appears their now.  The only differences between the ApparelSearch/ address listed above and the IP number address above is that the ApparelSearch pages had been uploaded with Front Page.  The IP address pages have been uploaded with EW4.  I did not change any code.  I did not change any text.  If I did not make any changes, it is fair to say that EW4 made some sort of visible changes that are clearly effecting the way the page is viewed when online.

    You mention that "MS can only take action when there is a reproducable case. Several of us tried to reproduce the behavior you reported but not one of us could. What more can I say."  I have over 11,427 pages with the issue.  I think that is enough pages to show that something is going on.  Again, regardless of characters being assigned or encoding etc., the pages worked find in FP.  EW4 is being sold as a software to make pages compliant. What ever change it made did not make it compliant in my book.  It changed the way my pages look by adding strange symbols on the page. That is the fact as you can see from the links above (for those of you reading this later, please note that I will be making correction to the pages, the problem will only be visible today).

    I am hopefully getting rid of most of them today. I am going to run the replace all with a blank space to hopefully remove them.

    By the way, I am not sure why but when searching with find all, searching for � it also appears to bring me to the other symbols such as "�nl�".  For example on the Turkey page listed above the Find shows me matched text found for  � at line 275.  But when you go to the line it actually shows that long line of other symbols mentioned above.

     

    Thursday, June 24, 2010 10:56 AM
  • Here is a more simple page that also shows the changed symbols.

    http://72.3.135.68/Fashion/LA_Fashion_Industry/LA_Runway_Shows/Oct_2004/Louis_Verdad.htm

    On this one you can see it changed 1930's to 1930�s

     

    Thursday, June 24, 2010 11:08 AM
  • You're beating a dead horse here. Every page you cite lacks a doctype and text encoding metadata. It has been repeatedly explained that EW defaults to UTF-8 unless otherwise specified, which is changing things. The original thread you referred to gave suggestions of how to avoid this when you open a page in EW, and clearly said not to save any changes until it displayed correctly. If you are publishing the pages with EW, you need to make sure the encoding is correct before you publish. And, it doesn't do any good to criticize EW on standards compliance, because clearly your pages are what are lacking in compliance. A little effort before publishing could fix that.

    Jim

    Thursday, June 24, 2010 3:43 PM
  • What Jim said.  Go back and read the thread you referred to in your first post.  It explains what happened, why, and what to do to overcome it (if it's not too late).  Blame FP, not EW, for the lack of encoding info (and also lack of doctype) on your pages.
    Thursday, June 24, 2010 5:32 PM
  • Your suggestions and comments have been appreciated.  

    I am not sure how you are so quick to decide your post is an actual solution to the problem.  It may be a bandaid but does not fix the cause.

    fcphjim say's, "The original thread you referred to gave suggestions of how to avoid this when you open a page in EW, and clearly said not to save any changes until it displayed correctly."  This is of little help when I started researching the problem "after" the EW4 software made changes to the text on my pages.  How in the world would any new user to the software know that before opening their website in EW4, they must first have meta encoding set up on each page.  

    It is important to also note that EW4 made changes to the pages even if I did NOT open, did NOT edit< and did NOT save the pages.  The software appears to have made changes to my pages based on the sole fact that I used the software to open my site on my desk top.  The reason that I think this is because it made changes to thousands of pages that I did not touch.  The only reason I know of the changes to so many pages is from using the find feature.

    It appears that EW4 changed the code/text on my pages without warning that it was going to do so.  I now understand the possible solutions of manually correcting each occurence, but correcting each of the changes that occured by the software is a method to clean up the mess.  It is NOT a solution to help avoid this mess happening to other people.  Again, how would anyone know when moving from Front Page to EW we would manually have to update encoding before taking the new software out of the box.

    FYI: I have set the default page encoding for the site to UTF-8 now (site menu >> Site setting>>advanced

    After doing this those strange symbols have now changed and turned into boxes as described in http://social.expression.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/web/thread/7e851b3c-62aa-4e9f-8010-e21954a81adb/?prof=required&ppud=4

    Again, I do appreciate your help and sorry if it sounds like I am beating a dead horse.  However, in my opinion this created a very significant problem.  I do not think others should have to go thru this headache of manually changing back these symbols to how they looked when built in Front Page.  As a reminder, EW was sold as a transition for people that used Front Page.  I do not write code, I build sites with microsoft software that is supposed to do the coding for me.

    Friday, June 25, 2010 11:28 AM
  • Setting UTF as the default may have been what caused your problem because that is what EW will use when it reads in the page. If you have more pages that have not been "corrupted" then before you open them change to the Windows characterset mentioned earlier in this thread.


    MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com
    Friday, June 25, 2010 3:46 PM
  • "As a reminder, EW was sold as a transition for people that used Front Page."

    No, in fact, it was not. It is a replacement of a proprietary, behind-the-times platform suited only for producing sites capable of full functionality on an antiquated version of IE, version 5. Microsoft abandoned the concept of FrontPage when changes in Web technologies, user expectations, and in particular, browser share distribution made it clear that that approach is no longer viable.

    "I do not write code, I build sites with microsoft software that is supposed to do the coding for me."

    Wrong again. EW is a fully-fledged Web development platform designed to assist the developer in producing modern, standards-compliant, accessible, and cross-browser compatible Web sites. It provides the tools to make it easier and more convenient to produce standards-compliant markup, but it is not meant to provide FP-style hand-holding and insulation from needing to understand HTML and CSS. In short, it is not "supposed to do the coding for you." This ain't yo daddy's Web, and EW is not FP, and that is by design. Get over it.

    FP produced qrap markup, proprietary and non-compliant. If you want to keep working that way, then fine, continue to use FP. If you want to move into the realm of modern standards compliance, it's time to buckle down and start converting the garbage that FP produced into valid and compliant code.


    C'mon, folks. This isn't rocket science, nor neurosurgery. It's "Expression" (singular) "Web" (singular), in that order, followed by a version numeral if you wish to be specific. It is often abbreviated "EW." It is not "Web Expression," "Expressions Web," "Web Expressions," or plain "Expression" or "Expressions." Not using the correct name indicates either ignorance or laziness. Most folks would rather avoid the appearance of either.
    Friday, June 25, 2010 4:16 PM
  • Cheryl D : setting UTF-8 as the default is not what caused the problem.  I just set this yesterday as an attempt to help set the system so that future pages I create are more compliant.

    What is the best (most compatible) setting for the default?  There are many choices and it appears that some times people say one version and for other aspects they think another may be better.  I thought I read that UTF-8 was the choice for default.  What version is most common to set as a default?

    Friday, June 25, 2010 11:42 PM