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Vote for your preferred Lightswitch client! RRS feed

  • General discussion

  • Not trying to make anyone angry with this, honestly just curious.

    Please vote and rank the following Lightswitch clients in the order of importance to you.

    1. Silverlight desktop client
    2. HTML client (d) - optimized for desktop LOB applications (not currently available)
    3. HTML client (m) - optimized for mobile/tablet/touch screen applications

    Example:  My ranking is 1, 2, 3.  Your ranking might be 3, 1, 2.

    At some point I could see changing mine to 2, 1, 3; so feel free to caveat your ranking any way you want.  This is unscientific and just for fun.

    Thanks.

    Saturday, April 13, 2013 5:03 AM

All replies

  • my ranking is 1 3 2.

    Why? Currently silverlight is much more mature than html5 (I'm not speaking about the LightSwitch implementation, but in general). So for desktop, for the time being I prefer silverlight (I would welcome a silverlight 6).

    Nonetheless, html5 might be less mature than silverlight today, it will evolve.

    I think also that desktop and mobile will converge since I believe that the "adaptive" capabilities will in the future not only be about multiple form factors but also about controls that change there morphology depending on the size (e.g. a control that becomes automagically a grid when run on the desktop). Why not :)



    paul van bladel



    Saturday, April 13, 2013 8:02 AM
  • Definitely 2 3 1

    Using Silverlight is what has kept Lightswitch back in my opinion. A lot of companies have just a handful of technologies they employ on their network and in europe at least, i have not seen one that uses silverlight. As every new technology brings new security, update and compliance issues, nobody is willing to accept an end of life technology simply because a line of business application can be easily created with lightswitch. They rather stick with the much hated excel / access for everything solutions.

    I really like silverlight, it's feel and what it was designed for. Sadly the fact is it never really had the penetration and acceptance of other plugins.

    While i really like the HTML Client for mobile applications, reality is most employees and business applications run on fixed desktops. 

    Actually all i want is a solution that is very similar to ls 2011 in design, but simply not silverlight. Sounds funny but that is exactly what most standart projects i hear about need. HTML5 seems to be the first breakthrough that every major browser and device supports out of the box. 


    • Edited by henn.de Saturday, April 13, 2013 11:23 AM
    Saturday, April 13, 2013 11:21 AM
  • Mine is 3, 1

    I do not feel that we need a HTML "Desktop" client (anymore).

    Basically, using the "_render" methods and making your own calls: Full Control LightSwitch (ServerApplicationContext And Generic File Handlers And Ajax Calls) gives you full control over the look of the page.

    So, the question is, will the LightSwitch designer allow you to easily make "Desktop" HTML pages? I don't think that is needed when the majority of our users will use our applications using a mobile device not a desktop one (remember "mobile" is not just phone but tablets and even TV's like the X-Box).

    The current LightSwitch HTML Client works with BOTH Desktop and mobile. See my explanation here:

    Understanding The LightSwitch HTML Client


    The Visual Studio LightSwitch Marketplace

    http://LightSwitchHelpWebsite.com

    Saturday, April 13, 2013 12:49 PM
  • I have to respectfully disagree with your assertion re 'Desktop' HTML client for Line-of-Business applications. I can think of a multitude of situations where screen real-estate is needed over and above that provided for within the phone ( maybe not so much tablet ) format.

    A few of my clients have as the basis of their applications the 'Party' model of managing people, organisations and contact information. I can just imagine the pain of having to negotiate inputting the data for all of that on an IPhone!

    In fairness though, I haven't been through the 'realisation' process that you describe in your article!


    Ian Mac

    Saturday, April 13, 2013 1:53 PM
  • First of all: I really like your articles ! I wish you would do a youtube tutorial series about the html client explaining similar to your articles, that would rock.

    You are right one can design a desktop ui html5 application, however given that it takes a lot more code to realise a silverlight like desktop solution with similar screens, i think it has moved away from the original concept of LS. As you said in your interview, the developer has to "open vs", but there is a big difference between web programming using html, css and js and on the other hand c# (I never saw big xaml modifications in all the ls applications i noticed so far) 

    Saturday, April 13, 2013 2:09 PM
  • Keep in mind that the Silverlight Client is and will always be in LightSwitch. When you need to use it, you should (it IS on my list).

    However, when people ask for "just like the Silverlight client, but on the Desktop" they are asking for functionality of Silverlight that is "stateful" in HTML that is "non-stateful".

    What the LightSwitch team did was sit down as see what they can do well and still give you a optimal design-time experience.

    Now, could they do the same but use JQuery-UI instead of JQuery Mobile? Probably.

    However, my point was that if they did this, let's say 2 years into the future, most of us would not use it. The Silverlight client would always provide the best user experience. If the user could not use Silverlight, it would mean they are on a mobile device and the current "mobile" HTML Client would be the best choice.


    The Visual Studio LightSwitch Marketplace

    http://LightSwitchHelpWebsite.com

    Saturday, April 13, 2013 2:44 PM
  • I have done big XAML modifications of the Silverlight Client:

    Help Desk: An Advanced Visual Studio LightSwitch Application

    The Silverlight LightSwitch client is VERY advanced and can do a LOT more than most people ever use it for.

    That is why I wrote a book: Creating Visual Studio LightSwitch Custom Controls (Beginner to Intermediate).

    But, right now people want apps that work on mobile devices. So my next book will be on the HTML Client :)

    Yes the design-time experience with the HTML Client is better than the Silverlight one, the LightSwitch team learned and improved in the last 3 years :)


    The Visual Studio LightSwitch Marketplace

    http://LightSwitchHelpWebsite.com

    Saturday, April 13, 2013 2:55 PM
  • my ranking will be 2 ,3.

    LS based on SilverLight is just a joke when you compare it with oracle application express which is just pure html and JavaScript and its free, it has one drawback that must run with oracle database.

    full functional LOB application with phone or tablet is another joke,LOB with mobile device is OK for some simple data entry and query for some data .

    any one want to create moderate LOB app like online accounting like Quickbooks or Xero cant use LS due to its limitation and bad performance.

    I adopt LS from its beta version ,but noway i fail to create a good application with it.

    therefore i use Asp.net MVC to build any LOB application and its work perfect ,the draw back is you have to write all plumbing code needed by the app.

    just my opinion.

    Saturday, April 13, 2013 8:31 PM
  • hmmm . . .

    I see 3 clients being required: 

    A)  Windows Metro XAML (optimized for Windows 8).  This would be for Windows 8 tablets and large displays.  The only difference between the tablet and large display is the frame allowing for multiple side-by-side screens.   This would be the evolution of the Silverlight client - with more functionality.

    B) Non-Windows Tablet and Large External Monitor HTML for non-Windows operating systems.   Likewise the only difference between the tablet and large display is the frame allowing for multiple side-by-side screens.  

    A and B would be automatically generated based on LSML - same LSML code base - just slightly different GUI runtime based on Screen size.   Of course, all screens will soon support touch - which will evolve into remote motion interaction (games already do this).

    C) The existing JQueryMobile format for small phone size format.  Same LS JSON OData Web Service back end.

    Yes, I see the goodness of LSML evolving and (hopefully) merging with Metro XAML.

    It is possible to use an existing LS JSON OData Web Service as a DataSource for another app, yes?  This would mean that we could have multiple HTMLClients as well as a single HTMLClient being the front end for multiple Data Source LS app back ends, yes?

    I see so many great possibilities with HTML5/JS and TS for dynamic application coding to achieve massively scalable ERP (and beyond) apps for business, government, and social web functionality.

    The dynamic capability of TS/JS (especially AngularJS) allow us to manage programming code as we do application data.


    Garth Henderson - Vanguard Business Technology

    Sunday, April 14, 2013 2:26 AM
  • My ranking is definitely 2, 3, 1.

    If it was not for the demise of Silverlight, I would have had number 1 at the top of the list. However, from a strategic point of view we cannot invest further in any Silverlight development, except for the off quick and dirty interim app. We do have one large LS based Silverlight app and we know the days for that client is numbered, but fortunately we only have to replace the client with the back-end remaining virtually as is.

    Modern HTML frameworks like JQuery UI/Mobile, Kendo, Wijmo, Infragistics, DevExpress, et al have pretty much made HTML browser based apps almost as powerful as traditional desktop apps. The plethora of these beautiful and powerful HTML controls means that we can just about do the same in HTML than what could have done in Silverlight. And we can do that today, without HTML 5 having been finalized. The main difference as I see it is that we now have to write Javascript/Typescript on the client instead of C#/VB (which sucks, but we'll get used to that).

    Number 2 & 3 above may well become possible in the next version of the LS HTML client, but it does not cut the mustard for me in the current release (sorry Michael :)).  

    Here are my main issues with the current HTML client:

    - only supports one task at a time (what happens if you busy editing an order and another customer phones to have another order created?) I have hope that this is going to change given the renaming of the .dataWorkspace to .activeDataWorkspace in the latest HTML client.

    - jQuery Mobile - great for mobile devices, but not for serious desktop LOB applications (yes I can probably hack it, but it might be easier to start from scratch using asp.net mvc)

    I would like to see the HTML client enhanced to support at the very least the same level of functionality as the Silverlight client does today. Once that happens we can start writing serious applications.

    I know all the rave is "mobile and iPads" (and I use and love those too) but we are a VERY long way away from abandoning physical keyboards and physical mouse devices for serious business application data entry.

    EDIT (only saw Garth's post after my post):

    - Yes, multi-screen (and multi-window) capability from the same application is very important for us as well

    - Off-line mode for mobile applications is important too

    Regards


    Xander

    • Edited by novascape Sunday, April 14, 2013 5:26 AM
    Sunday, April 14, 2013 3:42 AM
  • What I find interesting is that I felt the same way as many people on this thread. I communicated this to the LightSwtch team and was told:

    1) Use the Silverlight client when you can, it works great

    2) If you want to make a MVC Application we now have things like serverApplicationContext (and we also have OData)

    So, I thought the mobile HTML would only be good for "some things"...

    Then I created a number of applications and started to use them. I found the HTML Client to be faster than any web forms page I have made in the past. The pages are better on mobile AND the desktop.

    I researched why and got deep into SPA applications.

    SPA Applications are the real star. JQuery Mobile is nice, but it is JQuery mobile WITH SPA that makes the huge difference.

    Try making a SPA application manually. I did. It is a pain like I have never experinced. The end result is blazingly fast but even using LightSwitch as the back-end required many hours to create the front end.  


    The Visual Studio LightSwitch Marketplace

    http://LightSwitchHelpWebsite.com

    Sunday, April 14, 2013 12:38 PM
  • What I find interesting is that I felt the same way as many people on this thread. I communicated this to the LightSwtch team and was told:

    1) Use the Silverlight client when you can, it works great

    2) If you want to make a MVC Application we now have things like serverApplicationContext (and we also have OData)

    So, I thought the mobile HTML would only be good for "some things"...

    Then I created a number of applications and started to use them. I found the HTML Client to be faster than any web forms page I have made in the past. The pages are better on mobile AND the desktop.

    I researched why and got deep into SPA applications.

    SPA Applications are the real star. JQuery Mobile is nice, but it is JQuery mobile WITH SPA that makes the huge difference.

    Try making a SPA application manually. I did. It is a pain like I have never experinced. The end result is blazingly fast but even using LightSwitch as the back-end required many hours to create the front end.  


    The Visual Studio LightSwitch Marketplace

    http://LightSwitchHelpWebsite.com

    If only companies would use silverlight... The silverlight client, along with the many extensions available, were and are great for what they were designed to do, but even then, being silverlight after all is a show stopper as a lot of companies simply don't include silverlight as part of their IT policy and there is nothing i can change about it.


    • Edited by henn.de Sunday, April 14, 2013 1:27 PM
    Sunday, April 14, 2013 1:26 PM
  • Another big factor for me is cost. I supervise 8 programmers so I see the actual cost to create applications. I also see the cost when we don't create applications.

    We say "sorry we don't have the resources" so many times to people in the organization that have important things that need to get done, that it hurts my heart.

    With a tool like LightSwitch I CAN deliver 10x+ the applications that I can now. I can deliver the HTML applications that they need.

    They don't care about Silverlight, SPA, MVC, Web API, or any of that stuff, they only care about "can you give me an application, otherwise I am using Microsoft Excel?".

    It is no longer ok to me that we should take 2 weeks to code an application that can be produced in a single day.

    I am tired of sitting in a meeting where everyone has an IPad or tablet and telling them to try the application out when they get back to their desks.

    I have teachers that have to write down attendance on paper and then type it in on their computer when they find time to get back to their desk, yet they all have cell phones in their pockets and can take attendance for an entire class in less than 1 minute.

    I am totally dissatisfied with the way things are right now. I don't want to make any more slow web forms applications that are unusable on mobile devices. Even MVC applications have post backs and require people to "pinch and zoom" on a mobile device.

    I don't want to require my users to only be able to get work done on their desktops.

    I am not attacking anyone on this thread, this is an issue that has been bugging me for some time.

    I am angry at the way things are in the IT world. I am excited about what LightSwitch is offering right now because of the impact I feel it will have of the users I am supporting.


    The Visual Studio LightSwitch Marketplace

    http://LightSwitchHelpWebsite.com

    Sunday, April 14, 2013 1:54 PM
  • I would say you are on to something Michael. For me, I would want html desk and mobile. The SL desktop is great, but think HTML is the best way to drive forward lightswitch. All the business users I see would like to have a similar feel when mobile as they are on their desk. They are all also very used to web based systems.

    -----
    MrStu

    Sunday, April 14, 2013 2:28 PM
  • Take a look at this JQuery Mobile site:

    Scores and Odds

    Click on the "Full Site" button and compare the speed. It is much slower.

    I am sure they had to make "the full site" because people felt they "had to have a full site". But, to me the mobile site is faster to use.


    The Visual Studio LightSwitch Marketplace

    http://LightSwitchHelpWebsite.com


    Sunday, April 14, 2013 2:37 PM
  • Hey Guys,

    Here's my thoughts...the future of lightswitch will be heavily impacted by 3rd party component vendors (like Visual basic in the old days). It doesn't matter that Silverlight is better, and is going to be supported for another 10 years, because there is no innovation happening, and vendors won't invest in that platform any more.

    Once ComponentOne or another vendor fully automate the process of plugging in their entire component suite, Lightswitch usage will skyrocket.

    Agree with Paul, the lines between 2 and 3 are starting to really blur because of responsive ui. If you've written an application lately using MVC and Twitter Bootstrap, you'll realise that there is almost no distinction between mobile and desktop, and there are numerous devices coming out which cannot really be categorised into either. 

    I like Michaels comment - "I am angry at the way things are in the IT world. I am excited about what LightSwitch is offering right now"

    yes... I'm sick of seeing comments like "lightswitch is a toy" from hard-core developers that would rather be clever and write plumbing code than build something useful. It's because of those guys that the entire industry keeps going in circles trying to reinvent stuff. I built a large system using another 'toy' platform called rollbase. I sold it to a big company for lots of money, so I'm happy to stick with the tools that make me the most productive.


    Monday, April 15, 2013 1:30 AM
  • Mine is very definitely 1, 2, 3.

    It really irks me when I see web developers constantly saying that desktop development is dead.


    Yann - LightSwitch Central
    Luminous Tools for LightSwitch (a FREE productivity extension)
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    Monday, April 15, 2013 6:45 AM
    Moderator
  • Mine is also definitely 1, 2, 3 - and because of the performance problems of SL it would be usefull to have WPF as the LOB client for desktops...

    Monday, April 15, 2013 8:16 AM
  • I'd absolutely LOVE the option of a WPF client. I've been saying that since almost day 1. Unfortunately, I can't see it happening though.

    Yann - LightSwitch Central
    Luminous Tools for LightSwitch (a FREE productivity extension)
    FREE Themes, Controls, Types and Commands
     
    Please click "Mark as Answer", if any reply answers your question.
    Please click "Vote as Helpful", if you find any reply helpful.
     
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    Monday, April 15, 2013 8:48 AM
    Moderator
  • Hi Yann,

    Agreed on that 'irksomeness' !

    However, given the response from the Team to henn.de, ('Use the Silverlight client when you can, it works great'), it would be just great if the Team now concentrated fully on SL client known bugs, performance issues etc and gave us the LOB desktop client we need. After all, if it's recommended that we use it by them, why have they neglected these issues?


    Ian Mac


    • Edited by Yann DuranModerator Monday, April 15, 2013 10:30 AM Fixed formatting (I hope I got your intent right)
    Monday, April 15, 2013 9:51 AM
  • I don't think that the team have as much "latitude" in what they "concentrate on" as we often tend to think they do.

    I'm sure that they've been told "get an HTML mobile client out there!".

    (no "inside information" though - I don't get to talk to the team, this is my opinion only)


    Yann - LightSwitch Central
    Luminous Tools for LightSwitch (a FREE productivity extension)
    FREE Themes, Controls, Types and Commands
     
    Please click "Mark as Answer", if any reply answers your question.
    Please click "Vote as Helpful", if you find any reply helpful.
     
    By doing this you'll help others to find answers faster.

    Monday, April 15, 2013 10:34 AM
    Moderator
  • I don't think that the team have as much "latitude" in what they "concentrate on" as we often tend to think they do.

    I'm sure that they've been told "get an HTML mobile client out there!".

    (no "inside information" though - I don't get to talk to the team, this is my opinion only)

    Very good point. Whatever we say on this forum is never a direct criticism directed at the LS team. We all understand that they have to work within the constraints of a corporate governance structure.

    We do in fact very much appreciate the efforts and creative talents of the LS team. We just feel very passionate and vocal about this great product and want to make sure our wishes get through to the right decision makers!


    Xander

    Monday, April 15, 2013 10:46 AM
  • Xander, Yann,

    Your points are well made and I suppose it would be easy for the Team to look at some of this stuff as quite negative. However my take on this is that it's precisely because we love using this generally great product so much that we strive to inform them where it could be improved based on our experiences as developers; after all we are the guys and gals who use it every day!

    And now the HTML client is out there, there really are no more excuses for not sorting these long known about issues!


    Ian Mac

    Monday, April 15, 2013 12:46 PM
  • I used oracle tools for some years ,oracle always give you what will be in the future release of their product.

    i think its time for LS team to put ending for this long debate and give us information like:

    what is the future of LS based SilverLight.

    what next for LS.

    what points in their agenda.

    I think all these information are not secrets ,so please give us what is your road map for this project

    • Edited by Sinan_MCP Monday, April 15, 2013 12:50 PM
    Monday, April 15, 2013 12:47 PM
  • Ian,

    first, I an product manager (not for microsoft) and I always want hear what my customers are thinking. Especially the negative, so I can figure out how to improve my products. I am sure the pm of lightswitch is reading this, taking notes and reading between the lines.

    So don't worry about being perceived as negative. Just be constructive in your criticism.


    -----
    MrStu

    Monday, April 15, 2013 12:59 PM
  • Hello MrStu,

    we hope that the product manager reads this but what we need is a feedback what's coming next (or not) so we can plan...

    robert

    Monday, April 15, 2013 1:04 PM
  • I would be surprised if the pm was not reading this.

    as for what is next, no you will not get a road map. That is obvious from they past and how the overall visual studio team is operating.

    you can surmise that html is a major focus. There was little done with the Silverlight desktop and the responded to several requested features. But the major focus was html.

    the major feature I hope to see is more flexibility to deploy. I would love to be able to build and deploy like clickonce. Giving me the ability to build and update multiple customers at the same time.


    -----
    MrStu

    Monday, April 15, 2013 1:36 PM
  • Hi All,

    My order would be 3, 2, 1.

    Mobile html first as I believe that is the future. 

    Desktop html client second because my customers keep asking for desktop html. I want to believe in the mobile only approach but for me the navigation requirements of a full desktop app just seem different enough to make the call for a full desktop html client valid. 

    The Silverlight client is only last because we are where we are with Silverlight.

    Thanks

    Delordson

    Monday, April 15, 2013 1:47 PM
  • For what it is worth, there is a user voice for Silverlight 6: 

    Silverlight 6 User Voice


    Xander

    Tuesday, April 16, 2013 10:07 AM
  • @Xander - I wasn't aware of that site, so thanks for mentioning it.

    Anyone who still wants to use Silverlight, & see it get further development should vote and/or comment there.


    Yann Duran
         - Co-Author of Pro Visual Studio LightSwitch 2011
         - Author of the  LightSwitch Central Blog

    FREE Download: Luminous Tools for LightSwitch
    (a Visual Studio extension to enhance your LightSwitch productivity)
     
    Please click "Mark as Answer", if someone's reply answers your question.
    Please click "Vote as Helpful", if you find someone's reply helpful.
     
    By doing this you'll help others to find answers faster.

    Tuesday, April 16, 2013 11:28 AM
    Moderator
  • Thanks everyone for responding to this.  When I first posted it I did not expect to see such detailed and informative responses.  I do hope the Team is following this discussion and takes from whatever they can to continue improving this great product.

    Thursday, April 18, 2013 2:23 AM
  • There is a need for all 3 and my answer depends and capabilities for the task at hand and the target device...  

    Desktop

    As of today ... 1,3,2 however when same functionality exists in HTML5/JS .. 3,1,2 

    Tablet

    3,2,1

    Phone

    2,3,1

    ... a 4th option  is a Windows 8 Native client, which is a solid bet to happen prior to a WPF client, which I think will never (unfortunately) happen.

    I'd personally like to see the Silverlight Client source code for the client be released so that we can enhance those areas that Microsoft has no interest in. 


    Johnny Larue, http://www.softlandingcanada.com

    Thursday, April 18, 2013 1:47 PM
  • If MS will not continue to extend Silverlight but wants to support client LOB applications with LS they should add WPF to LS!

    robert

    Thursday, April 18, 2013 1:55 PM
  • It puzzles me to see such lack luster adoption of such a great technology for the past 2+ years. 

    Having researched the Internet for any competing technologies, I am unable to find one that has the capabilities that LS has so why is it that there is such a low adoption usage?

    I believe that the HMTL client is still very much a work-in-progress and will be for some time to come before it's a candidate for LOB development. 

    I personally do not like how tightly coupled the HTML client is to JQuery as there are much more better frameworks to manage UI manipulation such as AngularJS.  I get that AngularJS is a Google framework, but it's a much better way to manage the DOM elements than JQuery. It's a totally different approach, where you can define new HTML Elements/Attributes and implements a client side MVC. It is seeing an explosion of adoption in comparison to LightSwitch, I know they are different beasts but my point is, this would be a much better coupling to manage DOM manipulations over JQuery.

    I do however like how types are dynamically constructed in MSLS.JS , but there is a lack of documentation that explains how to extend it, in fact none, nothing.

    IMO, the SL client is still the champ for LOB development but alas, MS does not appear to be listening to the community as this technology does not fit with their corporate agenda.  


    Johnny Larue, http://www.softlandingcanada.com


    • Edited by John Kears Thursday, April 18, 2013 2:16 PM
    Thursday, April 18, 2013 2:15 PM
  • By the way, today I have worked on 2 projects - one is a large LS Silverlight project and one a "old" VB6 Project (large CRM Application).
    For me it is always surprising how fast I can develop with the old VB6 IDE and how productive I was with VB6 against sluggish development with VS 2012 - the IDE is very slow and also development with LS is not as productive as the old VB6.

    Shouldn't it be faster to develop in a IDE/Technology in 2013 as in 1999 (VB6)?
    As you can see there are so many people out there which have the same opinion: Bring back Classic Visual Basic, an improved version of VB6

    robert


    Thursday, April 18, 2013 2:36 PM
  • Robert,

    SOA based architectures have evolved since 1999 which is where I believe LS is a great fit. Although I am sure that one could argue SOA existed in 1999, it was not mainstream, rather a pipedream. The advancement of the Internet and how B2B would be implemented was in its infancy.  Federated security was not even born yet. Standards were ever evolving, such as OAuth.

    In 2001 the .Net architecture came to provide rich namespace to help organize and make code more readable/maintainable.  With it came C# and VB.Net.

    When SL came into existence it provided a much richer Web Browser based experience by pushing a light-weight .Net framework onto the client that could run in or out of browser and always respecting the boundaries of security in both paradigms.

    The Entity Framework (EF) came to provide a ORM which dynamically resolves SQL so that the developer does not need to worry how to connect to a back end repository, providing object level queries  (LYNC).

    WCF RIA services came to provide an easy way to connect the Rich Client (SL) with the EF ORM over the wire, providing secure transfer capabilities.

    LS began with the code generation goodness of WCF RIA services and provided all the wiring connectivity that you'd have to have built in VB 6 or anything pre LS.

    LS also provides a ton of other built-in capabilities that key for any LOB solution such as Authentication/Authorization, Data Concurrency, Validation and Extensibility (SL).

    LS provides an excellent SOA based architecture, with a clear separation of responsibilities on the client vs. service side. 

    I suppose to sum it up (IMO), VB 6 was a good RAD tool for the Desk Top in 1999, LS is a great RAD tool for SOA based LOB solutions which need to run a client on the Desk Top or in browser and decouples the client from the service in 2013.

    Cheers


    Johnny Larue, http://www.softlandingcanada.com

    Thursday, April 18, 2013 3:07 PM
  • Hello Johnny,

    I agree with all the points you have written but as an self employed company it is important to have a technology where I'm able to produce software very fast.

    All the concepts behind LS are very good but for me this solutions with Silverlight are very sluggish and I miss some functionality e.g central Errorhandling, Reporting, Stored Procedures...

    Maybe to extend LS to use WPF might be the best solution to become fast applications and not that sluggish one today?

    robert

    Thursday, April 18, 2013 3:26 PM
  • Hi Robert,

    I do agree with your comments on missing functionality such as Error Handing, integrated reporting (although there are 3rd party solutions) as well as Stored Procedures.

    I honestly believe that the sluggish nature is related more to the SOA and transfer of data than anything else, which, I maintain are very much resolvable if we had an open source code policy with the SL Client.

    Please keep the faith, it's worth the time, energy and investment!

    Cheers


    Johnny Larue, http://www.softlandingcanada.com

    Thursday, April 18, 2013 3:32 PM
  • For me its 1 - 3 - 2.

    I am not writing Silverlight 5 off yet. There are customers running VB6 apps still and our last VB6 development effort was 2 years ago. Silverlight 5 will still be running beyond 2020. For those of you with plans more than 7 years ahead dropping Silverlight, not wanting the LightSwitch Silverlight client, good luck to you!

    It is widely claimed that Silverlight 5 will be supported through to 2021, but the published details don't quite bear this out. If I look here you would think Windows 8 and IE10 don't support Silverlight 5! So it is not so clear, which I have to say is down to Microsoft rightly or wrongly not engaging with the development community on some of these matters.

    Silverlight 5 System Requirements

    Microsoft Support Lifecycle

    HTML5 will be our saviour real soon just like HTML3, HTML4, HTML4.2 ... The only time there will be no browser compatibility issues will be the day there is only one browser, though for most part things seem compatible.

    Rather than focus on technology and trying to build software that will last forever, we focus on ROI and productivity, so it is the Silverlight client with the HTML mobile client for companion applications.


    Dave Baker | Xpert360 blog | twitter : @xpert360 | Xpert360 website Opinions are my own. For better forums, please mark as helpful/answer, if it helps/solves your problem.


    Friday, April 19, 2013 9:35 AM
  • Hi Dave,

    Great summation.

    In regards to the HTML compatibility issues, it seems that most of the HTML 5 development community (outside of LS) has come to the conclusion that they will only support what they refer to as the Modern Browser IE 9 up and those browsers that support HTML 5. 

    Even still, there remains a vast difference between how one browser will render HTML 5 content vs. another. Thus if you were targeting multiple devices there would be a need to test and adjust as necessary.  As you point out, this is not an issue with SL but then SL is limited to browsers that support the plugin.

    Most LOB solutions generated for Business by LS would targeting MS Windows 7 or 8 and Silverlight works very well in both as will an HTML 5 client assuming the appropriate browser version was installed (Win 7).

    The big advantage of HTML will be the ability to target other devices, with the extra re-work of course but as well a common language for development.

    JavaScript is not so bad, but I still prefer .Net for client side code.

     


    Johnny Larue, http://www.softlandingcanada.com

    Friday, April 19, 2013 1:59 PM
  • As an added point to bolster the complexity of multi-browser and Dave's point .. JQuery 2.0 is out but does not work with older IE browsers, even though MSLS does not use it, it uses JQuery Mobile, its just another reason IMHO not to tightly couple to JQuery!

    Johnny Larue, http://www.softlandingcanada.com



    • Edited by John Kears Friday, April 19, 2013 6:22 PM
    Friday, April 19, 2013 6:21 PM
  • I'm very new to building apps with LightSwitch, although I've been tinkering with it since it was first released.  I've been asking to get it in work since I first heard about it and I finally do have it and am in the process of building my first small production app with it.

    I would really love to be able to build full desktop apps with the Silverlight client, but our IT department, for some completely unknown reason, absolutely refuses to install Silverlight across the network.  Not sure why - we are currently running Silverlight v3 in order to use some commercial software, but they just won't upgrade to the latest version.  Very annoying!

    At the moment, I'm using the HTML Client to build a small (but fairly complicated) data entry app which will be used on the desktop rather than on any mobile devices.  But my experience with it so far leads me to think that some of the more complicated projects that we have lined up further down the line may not be suitable using the HTML Client, so I may have to revert to building ASP.NET apps or something else for those.

    I think this is a common reason people are asking for HTML desktop - the decision on whether or not they can use Silverlight is out of their hands.

    Friday, April 19, 2013 9:20 PM
  • I agree with Michael. More important than the applied technologies is customer focus. The users want apps that help them in their work, no matter in what technologies they were implemented. They don't care about technologies, they care about their user experience. Lightswitch boots your productivity x10 and so your customers satisfaction because they get their apps faster. Saludos Jean Pierre
    Saturday, April 20, 2013 11:40 AM
  • Anyone who still wants to use Silverlight, & see it get further development should vote and/or comment there.


    I'm here and I want to use silverlight.

    definitely 1,3,2
    silverlight is much better, simpler and more productive than html.
    what is missing is the team's lightswitch give more attention to silverlight.
    after I met my lightswitch development life changed completely,
    today is only joy, I present a beautiful product and fast functional development my client is happy I'm happy and we all go forward.
    do not let the silverlight stop. it is MUCH BETTER THAN HTML.
    my opinion

    Saturday, April 20, 2013 9:58 PM