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Windows 8 is just plain terrible, Metro is to blame...

    General discussion

  • This developer preview of Windows 8 is bad, like very very bad. I honestly cannot fathom what the developers were thinking when they decided to implement Metro. I am a very competent computer user who could easily address any issue that arises in Windows, Linux, or even OS X; but with Windows 8 there are no excuses. How do I get a classic start menu back? Oh just edit the registry... How do I log in? Oh just swipe up... I have a mouse and that the xxxx is swiping? Alright now that I've managed to switch over to the regular start menu what the xxxx is different? This looks just like Windows 7 except xxxxxxx... The more I use it the more I hate it. I honestly think that Metro will be far worse than Microsoft Bob and Millenium Edition combined. So please Microsoft I beg of you kill it where it stands. I find absolutely no benefit from the Metro UI and there is no way in xxxx I'll be developing for Metro or Windows 8.  
    Thursday, September 15, 2011 1:34 AM

All replies

  • Maybe I can change your mind.
    I shared the same opinion (maybe less extreme) So I figured out a way to disable metro (completely!)

    http://it-ca.net/blogdylan/?p=194

    The only downside to this is you CANT develop for metro anymore, even if you want to...

    Regards,

    Dylan Meeus


    0x2B |~ 0x2B Blog : www.it-ca.net/blogdylan
    Thursday, September 15, 2011 1:39 AM
  • Yes, I disabled it completely; but then it just turned into Windows 7 and what is the point of upgrading? Most users I know are going to be very frustrated with this new UI and won't have the technical ability to change it. It just seems like such a terrible business decision...
    Thursday, September 15, 2011 1:46 AM
  • Don't rush ahead though, I'm sure we will get the ability to disable Metro UI trough something as simple as control-panel :)
    0x2B |~ 0x2B Blog : www.it-ca.net/blogdylan
    Thursday, September 15, 2011 1:47 AM
  • I'm hoping it will come pre-disabled on everything except tablets...
    Thursday, September 15, 2011 2:10 AM
  • Everyone does I think ^^
    0x2B |~ 0x2B Blog : www.it-ca.net/blogdylan
    Thursday, September 15, 2011 2:12 AM
  • This developer preview of Windows 8 is bad, like very very bad. I honestly cannot fathom what the developers were thinking when they decided to implement Metro. I am a very competent computer user who could easily address any issue that arises in Windows, Linux, or even OS X; but with Windows 8 there are no excuses. How do I get a classic start menu back? Oh just edit the registry... How do I log in? Oh just swipe up... I have a mouse and that the hell is swiping? Alright now that I've managed to switch over to the regular start menu what the hell is different? This looks just like Windows 7 except shittier... The more I use it the more I hate it. I honestly think that Metro will be far worse than Microsoft Bob and Millenium Edition combined. So please Microsoft I beg of you kill it where it stands. I find absolutely no benefit from the Metro UI and there is no way in hell I'll be developing for Metro or Windows 8.  

    Well, don't you agree Metro UI is not the only thing about Windows 8. Isn't it faster? Isn't light weight? I am yet to figure out what is good there, but I honestly believe Microsoft will have some thing good for us deep under the UI. If not, then Windows 8 will definitely prove to be the riskiest product for Microsoft!

    Microsoft put several years of efforts to bring us something better, but honestly all the hype is about the metro UI and other fancy stuff coming with Windows 8. You, me and thousands of other IT guys probably do not care about the fancy UI, but what is more important is the new app model and other new serious features Windows 8 brings to us. I hate to program in Javascript, but I do appreciate the idea of uniform programming model across devices using HTML 5 and Javascript.

    Regarding Metro UI, I think it is  a matter of time to get used to it. When I upgraded from Windows XP to Windows 7 (skipped Windows Vista), the first thing I did was to roll back to the then classic menu (XP style start menu). It took few years for me to start appreciating the new Windows 7 start menu.

    Now, after I installed the Windows 8, the first thing I did was to disable the new Windows 8 Start screen and rollback to Windows 7 style start menu. But this will disable my ability to try many new features in Windows 8, so I want to go back and forth with the new start screen and old start menu just to try out various things. 

    Since editing the registry is not very convenient, I wrote a small tool to do the same task. Here is the tool to enable or disable classic start menu on Windows 8.

    Thursday, September 15, 2011 5:11 AM
  • Guys, keep in mind that this is only a developer preview, with the whole intention of previewing the metro style environment to developers to be able to get their hands on and play with. It is by no means an indication of what the final product may be like. I really think comments like this should be kept down. The technology behind this release is quite impressive, coming from an Applications Architect. Having a bit of a play around with WinRT has already got be excited. That is the whole point of this release. Consumer appreciation is not what this is about.

     

    Thursday, September 15, 2011 5:22 AM
  • Guys, keep in mind that this is only a developer preview, with the whole intention of previewing the metro style environment to developers to be able to get their hands on and play with. It is by no means an indication of what the final product may be like. I really think comments like this should be kept down. The technology behind this release is quite impressive, coming from an Applications Architect. Having a bit of a play around with WinRT has already got be excited. That is the whole point of this release. Consumer appreciation is not what this is about.

     


    Yes, but keep in mind that this is the first view the world will get of Windows8.
    Making a good first impression is a very important part in the lifecycle of your product.

    Regards,

    Dylan Meeus


    0x2B |~ 0x2B Blog : www.it-ca.net/blogdylan
    Thursday, September 15, 2011 5:23 AM
  • I have a passion for IT for about 30 years now, working for 20 years as a professional developer, and I find this the single most important end-user product I have ever seen ever since the Xerox windowing environment.

    Some imagination is necessary to really appreciate what it is about. How can some people be so shortsighted?

     

    Thursday, September 15, 2011 4:02 PM
  • Right TF on! New paradigm .. embrace it , design for it, develop for it, dive into it. Maybe spread sheets don't have a metro take, but presenting the salient data from them sure does. Think less clicks, less time .. oh, maybe not so much because you have better things to do, like hike or boat or something, but because you have MORE things to do.  ... ok .. maybe it is a little be the USA Today of os's .. but, that is the beauty of the innerwebs, you can be as superficial or as super-anal as you want :)
    Thursday, September 15, 2011 11:40 PM
  • Maybe I can change your mind.
    I shared the same opinion (maybe less extreme) So I figured out a way to disable metro (completely!)

    http://it-ca.net/blogdylan/?p=194

    The only downside to this is you CANT develop for metro anymore, even if you want to...

    Why would I want to develop for Metro? I don't need windows live and for productivity apps metro is pointless.

    Friday, October 7, 2011 5:07 AM
  •  It is by no means an indication of what the final product may be like.

    That sounds... crazy.  If this isn't an indication of what Metro will be like why bother with a Dev preview?  This is the worlds first look into MS's new vision is, and many people seem to dislike it to various degrees.  A smart company uses this feedback to evaluate their direction and change it if their customers... especially those of us that make purchase decisions for large companies, think it is a bad decision. 

     

    The only positive... if this launches looking like it does today I'll make a killing shorting the stock.

    Friday, October 7, 2011 5:13 AM
  • Of course this is what microsoft intend for the final product. Its the same as the windows 7 pdc -> windows 7 rtm. Hardly anything budged, if at all. If the -core- feature (metro) would be moving, then the developers would be wasting their time. And this is what's so frustrating about this whole debacle.

    How did it ever got green light at microsoft internal meetings. This is so out of touch (ah! that was unintended) with reality, it's scary to think this is the IT company i rely in at work.

     

    Friday, October 7, 2011 8:40 AM
  • I don't get this at all, you download a DEVELOPER PREVIEW with a potentially great new UI to develop for and the first thing you do is try and disable all the new stuff????

    Pwebdeveloper & KjBleau: I hope to see your names again when the app store is up and running, sounds like you guys 'get' this new paradigm, can't wait to see what you produce. 


    Acer W500 tablet & dock, New 'works' Lenovo laptop Too much apple stuff. Remember: A Developer Preview is just that, a preview for developers - not everything will work 'just right' on day 1.
    Monday, October 10, 2011 1:21 AM
  • There will probably be a transition period for most people.  When Windows first came out, most apps were DOS.  It made very little sense for most people to launch DOS apps from Windows....Can't we just disable this Windows thing?  Over time, as more and more apps took advantage of the fantastic UI features in Windows, people thought about DOS less and less.

    The same thing will probably happen, but happen faster with Windows 8 and the MetroApps.  Right now, on the dev preview I'm dropping to the "desktop" often because there is no Metro-Mail app, no Metro-IM app, no Metro-calendar app, no great facebook, twitter, newsreader, weather, or paint apps.  There is no Calculator, PDF Viewer, solitaire, minesweeper, contact manager, or host of other apps.  That is what the dev preview is for.  By the time Windows 8 is ready to launch, if those apps are built, are good and usable, you will need to drop to the Desktop less and less.  Will it ever go away completely?  I dunno.

    I like metro.  I like full screen, immersive, touch, keyboard, pen, mouse, joystick or other HID (Human Interface Devices) interactive, fluid, clean apps.  What is not to like about that?  The whiners need to relax, let us developers do our job and make great and compelling apps for the world to enjoy.

    As for those of you who are complaining, I can only assume that you are not developers.  Be careful, you don't want to be the DOS bigots of yesteryear and lose credibility when MetroApps start shipping.  Relax, take a chill pill, enjoy the ride, embrace the future without compromise.  Be happy that you can still run desktop apps AND enjoy the new Metro paradigm.  Microsoft could have created a completely separate OS for tablets and orphaned the millions of Windows Apps and fragmented the ecosystem, but they didn't.  Instead we have something truly usable and compelling.....A fantastic bridge to the future.

    Monday, October 10, 2011 2:12 PM
  • @mobiletony: That was an amazing bunch of **** you just posted. Not a single of those apps has ANY place in an enterprise environment. No line-of-business app will be converted to Metro because the platform isn't right, just as they haven't been ported to any tablet. You don't use visual studio on tablets, you dont use office on tablets, you dont use any mildly productive app on tablets because a tablet is a device to consume content-rich apps, not create/develop them. Metro is just trying to use the same interface on desktops and -that- is the -only- problem, because the interface doesn't apply to the device. It has nothing to do with not following change, we haven't done anything but that in the past 20+ years of using microsoft products. If the IT crowd don't buy into windows 8, then the enterprise market will just skip it like we did with vista. And the lion's share of microsoft revenue doesn't come from you and your grandma buying windows. It comes from big enterprises buying large volume licensing.

    But this brings another key factor into this - a company like microsoft CAN NOT appear so out of touch with reality that it launches a product with features clearly useless for its main target market. The helpdesks, the training, the support will not cope with such a useless change. But this questions how we can continue to rely business critical software like exchange on a company that doesn't listen to its prime supporters. Vista was a black hole, this will sink the ship on the enterprise. Perphaps then, when they have 10 or 15% of the tablet market share and lose the desktop/Enterprise markets, they'll appreciate the problem.

     

    [And if you're so keen on adopting change and chastising others for not being blind about obvious shortcomings of the design choices, tell me, how well did you like Windows Bob?]

    Monday, October 10, 2011 7:14 PM
  • @Joao

    Sorry? Which Apps have no place in an enterprise environment? I read MobileTony's list and was nodding my head at each one.

    No LOB apps will ported to Tablets? Gartner disagree on that, they also disagree that they are 'consumption' only (google: 'gartner tablet enterprise'). Oracle, SAP, Citrix etc thing there's a market for tablets as they have products for the iPad.

    Don't use visual studio on a tablet? I do, plug my W500 into it's dock and it's a usable dev machine

    Don't use office on a tablet? Numbers, Pages and Keynote are among the top selling apps for the iPad

    Enterprise customers will adopt the version of windows based on TCO, long term support, Licencing costs and support for legacy applications. The viewpoint of 'the IT crowd' is just part of a bigger picture.

    Have you got any numbers to support the me and my gran vs enterprise licencing? I'd think there were more consumer copies of Windows out there than corporate, but I've no idea about the relative costs of an OEM licence vs corporate, factor in Exchange, SQL etc licencing into corporate and you could be right, I don't know.

    Helpdesks, training & support departments can cope with change, if they couldn't we'd still be on Windows for Workgroups or DOS or BOB .

    Useless change? I think W8 offers more than just Metro, reduced memory /cpu usage are two other features that spring to mind (ok, I'll admit they are the only two I can think of).

    If there is ANY danger that the corporates will skip W8 because of the Start screen/Metro then MS will have a switch they can flick to bring back the start menu.

    Comparing Metro & BOB, Excellent way to inject a little light-heartedness into this thread ;)

     


    Acer W500 tablet & dock, New 'works' Lenovo laptop Too much apple stuff. Remember: A Developer Preview is just that, a preview for developers - not everything will work 'just right' on day 1.
    Monday, October 10, 2011 11:26 PM
  • "Don't use visual studio on a tablet? I do, plug my W500 into it's dock and it's a usable dev machine"

    Why do you need to dock it for it to become a usable dev machine? Could it be that you actually need the features of a desktop (like a keyboard, a mouse, and likely multiple monitors) for it to be usable? Does that also mean that you will likely never dev directly on a tablet? Does that also mean that rewriting an IDE on a platform that is incapable of taking advantage of the features of a desktop because it has to be interoperable on tablets too is a massive waste of time?

    "Don't use office on a tablet? Numbers, Pages and Keynote are among the top selling apps for the iPad"

    I'm going to pretend that you didn't just try to seriously compare Numbers, Pages, and Keynote to the Office suite. Because that really is funny, and perhaps gives an indication why you don't understand the problem with writing LOB apps in Metro.

    "Helpdesks, training & support departments can cope with change"

    The question is not whether they can, but whether it is worth the effort. So far, not only based on the preview itself but based on Microsoft's comments about their future direction, I would say the answer is a resounding no.


    Moderator | MCTS .NET 2.0 Web Applications | My Blog: http://www.commongenius.com
    Tuesday, October 11, 2011 12:04 AM
  • Don't use visual studio on a tablet? I do, plug my W500 into it's dock and it's a usable dev machine
    I'm thinking of getting the Acer W500. Did you install the 64-bit version with developer tools? Does the machine have enough horsepower for that?
     

    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP
    Tuesday, October 11, 2011 12:36 AM
  • David:

    Yup, guilty as charged. I want a physical keyboard and mouse and dual displays for dev work (well for most work being honest), could I develop in 'pure tablet' mode? Hell no, would I want my favourite IDE's to be Metro apps? Another big no. What I do want is to have one machine that I can use as a desktop replacement and to be able to rip off the screen and take that with me.

    Pages etc. vs Office: Not a serious comparison no, just saying that office type apps can work on a tablet and they don't have to be the full monty to be useful.

    LOB apps: I didn't realise I didn't understand them, thanks for the pointer ;) The stuff I write could have a valid presence on a tablet (dashboards, reporting, visualiation, governance etc) and Metro offers some interesting possibilities, my own chance to re-imagine.

    Out of interest what's your definition of LOB and what are the problems writing them in Metro? and what can MS do to make it easier/better?

    Cope with change: 'worth the effort' a very valid criteria. Time will tell, but I agree on what we've seen so far there's not a right lot in W8 that's going to make the corporates dive in with a full blown replacement of XP, Win7

     


    Acer W500 tablet & dock, New 'works' Lenovo laptop Too much apple stuff. Remember: A Developer Preview is just that, a preview for developers - not everything will work 'just right' on day 1.
    Tuesday, October 11, 2011 1:03 AM
  • Don't use visual studio on a tablet? I do, plug my W500 into it's dock and it's a usable dev machine
    I'm thinking of getting the Acer W500. Did you install the 64-bit version with developer tools? Does the machine have enough horsepower for that?
     

    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP


    64bit with dev tools installed. Does it have enough horsepower? Developers never have enough horsepower, but yeah it's ok for building the sample apps. here's some timings to help you out:

    fresh launch of VS: 13 secs

    open project: 24 secs

    build & run: 7 secs til app opened

    I'll stick a full VS / Java IDE on it at some point just for a laugh and see how long it takes to build some of our real applications.

    The screen is a bit small for proper dev work (I'll pick up a HDMI->DVI adapter next time I go shopping for goodies) and a mouse/keyboard are pretty essential.

    This is never going to be the machine Steven Sinofsky said we'd be replacing our desktops with (not like the give-aways at Build) but for my experiments with W8 it's ok. 

    Windows 8 seems to run well enough, its surprisingly responsive for a 1Ghz processor considering my work laptop is some dual core mega memory beast (Lenovo T420) it doesn't seem like the W500 is below 50% of the T420 on cpu/memory.

     

     


    Acer W500 tablet & dock, New 'works' Lenovo laptop Too much apple stuff. Remember: A Developer Preview is just that, a preview for developers - not everything will work 'just right' on day 1.
    Tuesday, October 11, 2011 1:28 AM
  • Are you kidding me. This is the kind of archaic thinking that keeps innovation back. Hate it or not the new standard will become touch screens and people will look back and think... remember when laptops weren't touchscreens. That doesn't mean the keyboard and mouse will go away, by no means do I mean that. firstly this is a pre-beta and many features are not implemented in this version. secondly the Metro UI is a beautiful minimalist style that I love and I'm sure others will too. To say that people will hate this OS because you hate it is a huge overgeneralization. People are excited about this change and developers will develop for this platform.

    Microsoft, job well done and can't wait to have my official Windows 8 device.

    Tuesday, October 11, 2011 1:38 AM
  • I am amazed that such techy GURUs can't see the light of a NEW day. Touch Screen computing is here to stay in the BIGGEST of ways for every industry, business, social and educational setting! Even Uncle Sam is going for it in a big way - check out the computing the military is developing. Touch-screen computing in every form on every conceivable device will be one of two primary interfaces and the order of a new day in global computing and communications for everyone very soon!

    AND that second powerful primary interface? Along with the enormous power of Touch Screens, will be combined another even more powerful GUI!  Full-control Voice Recognition is fast coming onto the scene. Ever heard of Dragon Naturally Speaking? That's a company worthy of buying a lot of stock in - though their competition will rapidly become great. Did I mention Smart Phones? The Voice Power for these and ALL similar devices will become "can't live without it" primary user interfaces in very big, wide ranging ways!

    I am so confident in what I'm stating here that I totally predict that the Mouse and Keyboard will go the way of the Horse and Buggy - FOR SURE!!! There will still be some of these around - more likely keyboards. But many, many mice are bound for the recycle factory.

    So, Tech Gurus, WAKE UP! End the useless chattering about the "good old days" or is that the "good old GUIs?" Let's get busy building the future for the tremendous power of these new, powerful user interfaces: The Power of Touch and Voice! There are our fortunes of the future and they are there for the picking right now! Microsoft sees this new light of day and you'd better believe their competitors do, too. How about YOU!

    • Edited by DaveRay7 Tuesday, October 11, 2011 4:07 AM
    Tuesday, October 11, 2011 3:49 AM
  • @Joao Um....who will they lose the desktop/enterprise market to?  iOS? Android? are these your enterprise competitors? Maybe it is Ubuntu?  Don't get me wrong, these are all fun to play with, but seriously, you don't offer a real competitor in the enterprise space and I don't see that the addition of touch is going to be a bad thing for enterprise.  I think enterprise IT is nervous....for the first time in 20+ years, consumers are driving enterprise IT.  The ivory towers have always had control over the enterprise, but now with mobile devices coming in the door at an amazing rate, enterprise IT has had to adapt, embrace and manage the fragmented workplace environment.  When the CEO says he wants his iPad and his entire staff's iPads connected to the network, IT says.....ok.  Do you think it will be any different with people dragging their Windows 8 tablets in to work?  I don't.  I think it will be easier and better for integrating into the enterprise.  Heck, printing is an order of magnitude easier than with iOS or Android.
    • Edited by mobiletony Tuesday, October 11, 2011 4:45 AM
    Tuesday, October 11, 2011 4:45 AM
  • Hi Davin Watson,

    I don't understand people like you.  Do you really think that 5 years from now, there will be a pc without touch capabilities.  Your type of user is what's making Microsoft fail time and time again in releasing innovative product.  Your laziness to learn new ways of doing things is a stumbling block for the rest of us who wants to move forward.  You beg because you have fallen in love with your slack attitude towards learning.  You feel competent in using your computer because you can go to facebook and buy stuff at ebay.  I am an enterprise level programmer by profession and i see so much potential with the direction Microsoft is taking.  It is sad and shameful that you will never see what so many of us can see.

    I am very very sorry for you

    Regards,

    T Calingasan   

    Tuesday, October 11, 2011 5:38 AM
  • There really is no need to be so condescending.

    I'm a professional as well, specialised in .NET, WPF, etc.  A real enterprise dork who spends his time building LOB app(lication)s.  Furthermore, I'ld say that probably as good as nobody in this forum is a n00b-user.  n00bs don't come to forums like this to talk about pre-beta software.

    Having said that, there are a lot of problems with the direction msft is pushing and denying them is really not helpfull nore constructive.

    The fact of the matter is that most of us really DO see great value in a "one OS to rule all devices".  And all of us want to move forward.  Most of us also realise that 10 years from now, every monitor will be touch-enabled.  Just like you can't find a cellphone these days that doesn't have a build-in camera. 

    You talk about moving forward, but a lot of us seem to feel like windows 8 is in a lot of ways also a step backwards.  Nobody here can deny that msft is really pushing metro unto the desktop.

    There are no plans to include a classic start menu.  The latest posts of Sinofsky make it very  clear that the huge metro start screen IS the start menu. 

    Going from windows to just one window IS a step backward, no matter how you put it.  I have 4 app(lication)s visible on my dual monitor system right now.  I hit start to do a search and all 4 app(lication)s stay visible.  In windows 8, only those on the second monitor will stay visible.  This is just one of many annoyances.

    Also, by not adding any of the new capabilities to desktop applications, msft sends a clear message to us: they want us to use metro app(lication)s all the time.  Think about it...  You can log into windows with your live-id, but you can't use that authentication to connect to skydrive with a desktop app(lication) like you can with a metro app(lication).  This is just one of many examples.  In fact, anything you can think off in winRT is such an example, because you can't use anything in a desktop app(lication).

    Microsoft is injecting a mentality into the world that the desktop is somehow "legacy".  That desktop app(lication)s are somehow "old school", the "old way" of doing things.  Suddenly, all of us LOB programmers, are "outdated".  This is very annoying for us.  Reason being that we programmers understand that metro simply is not suited for productivity suits.  Metro uses enormous fonts and giant buttons to allow for a "touch-first" usage.  Great for angry birds, not so much for photoshop.  And everybody realises this, yet calls it "legacy" anyway.

    I like the underlying ideas.  A lot.  But the execution is very strange to me.  I'm seeing quite some blunders and it's a shame.

    Tuesday, October 11, 2011 9:11 AM
  • I have no problem with metro on tablets. It's golden in a tablet. The problem is that tablets are for content comsuption rather than production. You won't have accounting, development or office applications running on tablets, if not for anything else, then for lack of screen real estate - there simply is more information that needs displaying than available display space to view it. You could get -viewers- for some of it, but to make changes or creating content you need desktops. And metro is not suited for desktops, or mouse-keyboard, or even multi monitor. Heck, it isnt even suited for multitasking. We are well past the time of single app launching.

    Tuesday, October 11, 2011 10:29 AM
  • 64bit with dev tools installed. Does it have enough horsepower? Developers never have enough horsepower, but yeah it's ok for building the sample apps.
    You didn't have any trouble with drivers?
     
    Will Acer have 64-bit drivers if they only market the W500 with Win7 x86?
     

    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP
    Tuesday, October 11, 2011 1:06 PM
  • You wrote that mail as if you feel like microsoft should built 2 different operating systems.  I disagree with that.

    I want to see a fully functional desktop and a fully functional metro in one system.

    I also want all of the cloud capabilities from metro accessible for desktop.  I want to be able to write desktop app(lication)s that make use of azure, live-id authentication, skydrive, etc, just as easily as it is for metro applications.

    I love the idea of taking your touch-first tablet and transforming it into a small full-blown laptop.

    I love the idea of docking a touch-first tablet in a device that has 2 HDMI outputs and transforming that tablet into a worthy dual-monitor desktop.

    2-3 years from now, the technology/hardware will most certainly allow for such scenario's.

    The mistake being made is shoehorning the touch-first UI into a mouse-first world.

    We have a perfectly fine mouse-first UI.  Keep it.   Just add a touch-first UI as well.

    It's not hard.  In fact, it's as easy as taking the win7 start menu and replacing the shut-down option with a button to return to metro start screen.

     

    Tuesday, October 11, 2011 1:54 PM
  • You didn't have any trouble with drivers?
     
    Will Acer have 64-bit drivers if they only market the W500 with Win7 x86?
     

    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP

    Some stuff on here http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/acer/44617-w500-windows-8-a.html about drivers etc.

    I can't verify anything on there as I'm not really bothered about using the webcam or screen rotation at this time.

    It did pick up some updated video drivers from Windows update a few days after installation but there is still the occasional graphics glitch (other folk have reported similar issues on machines other than the W500 so it could be a generic W8 dev preview issue).


    Acer W500 tablet & dock, New 'works' Lenovo laptop Too much apple stuff. Remember: A Developer Preview is just that, a preview for developers - not everything will work 'just right' on day 1.
    Tuesday, October 11, 2011 3:57 PM
  • Some stuff on here http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/acer/44617-w500-windows-8-a.html about drivers etc.
     
    I can't verify anything on there as I'm not really bothered about using the webcam or screen rotation at this time.
    I would like to play with those things so I might just install the 32-bit version. I have the 64-bit version with developer tools multi-booted on my main workstation, so I can look at Visual Studio 11 and WinRT there.
     
    One idea I had: use Remote dektop on the W500 to access my workstation, and try Visual Studio 11 on a tablet that way. Did you try that?
     

    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP
    Tuesday, October 11, 2011 4:23 PM
  • i ran a windows 95 program but i honestly think metro doesnt need to be in windows 8 professional and up editions and be disabled in option in install if it will be enabled by default or control panel option to turn it off.
    Wednesday, October 26, 2011 7:32 PM
  • Let me just add my vote against the Metro UI on the desktop...

    Every device has its own capabilities and shortcomings. The desktop is a superset (in capabilities) of all computer devices we use. Installing an interface fit for phones and tablets is simply wrong. If you really want to have it, then make it optional for us who don’t.

    If you want to develop on it then use a Visual Studio emulator like we do for the Windows Phone 7. I didn’t install Windows Phone 7 on my quad core desktop to be able to program for it, why do I have to install Metro UI then? I want at least an option during installation to say, “this is a desktop switch off the rectangle driven madness”. Then I can use the tablet emulator for development.

    Microsoft has chosen the wrong path once more, nothing new here. It is our responsibility to tell them “early” and also vote with our wallets (or company budgets) when it comes out in the market: We don’t want Metro UI on our desktops no matter what the MS blogs are trying to convince us otherwise.

    If the Metro UI ever succeeds on the desktop I promise to open a Facebook account and keep it in a Metro UI tile. Until then though, I will stand by my position, which is: a professional Windows user will need a lobotomy before he finds this Metro UI paradigm useful on desktops.

    Wednesday, October 26, 2011 8:52 PM
  • Great 2 posts, Aroush, exactly my opinion! When Windows 8 stays like it is now and MS adds no official way to keep the Win 7 start menu along with Metro, I will skip this Windows version and it is the first time since Win ME. And as a desktop developer I also want to make use of the Win RT and cloud features.

    There also needs to be a way that a Metro app and a desktop app can communicate with each other and share data. E.g. a bookmark added in IE desktop has to show up in Metro IE. Data added to my full featured desktop app has to sync over to the lightweight Metro version of my app. This sync has to be done locally. It makes no sense to send this data through the cloud when both apps are on the same computer.

    • Edited by dvlg Wednesday, October 26, 2011 9:50 PM
    Wednesday, October 26, 2011 9:47 PM
  • Agreed divinglog2 the information being sent through the cloud is crazy if you ca store it locally. Yes mil i agree that professional windows users should  have the option to disable or it will be a very long time before schools and large organizations accept this which are microsofts way of getting people use to the software long term and it coming free to colleges and schools.

    • Edited by The Thinker Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:29 PM
    Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:28 PM
  • You wrote that mail as if you feel like microsoft should built 2 different operating systems.  I disagree with that.

    I want to see a fully functional desktop and a fully functional metro in one system.

    I also want all of the cloud capabilities from metro accessible for desktop.  I want to be able to write desktop app(lication)s that make use of azure, live-id authentication, skydrive, etc, just as easily as it is for metro applications.

    I love the idea of taking your touch-first tablet and transforming it into a small full-blown laptop.

    I love the idea of docking a touch-first tablet in a device that has 2 HDMI outputs and transforming that tablet into a worthy dual-monitor desktop.

    2-3 years from now, the technology/hardware will most certainly allow for such scenario's.

    The mistake being made is shoehorning the touch-first UI into a mouse-first world.

    We have a perfectly fine mouse-first UI.  Keep it.   Just add a touch-first UI as well.

    It's not hard.  In fact, it's as easy as taking the win7 start menu and replacing the shut-down option with a button to return to metro start screen.

     

    I can't agree more.  Please give us BOTH Microsoft.
    Thursday, October 27, 2011 4:03 PM
  • i want the cloud but i want it built into windows:

    For example, cloud apps over windows live should be starting to be integrated into windows. 

    and the metro to be disabled by option somehow.

    Thursday, October 27, 2011 5:50 PM
  • NO..THIS IS NOT WIN7 .... TRUST ME... WIN 7 HAD A TURTLE UNDER THE HOOD IN COMPARISON..WIN8 HAS A FERRARI ENGINE UNDER THE HOOD... JUST GET RID OF METRO KRAP AND GIVE IT A TRY..

     

    CHECK YOUR CPU USAGE IN WIN 8... ITS AWESOME...IT CRUIZES AT 0  % ... AWESOME FOR LAPTOPS !!!!

    WIN 8 IS A GAMERS DREAM... FOR SPEED AND STABLILITY...

     

    Thursday, October 27, 2011 6:33 PM
  • Tuxcommando, I agree that I prefer the Desktop Interface in Win8 and can't stand the Metro interface, but in our corporate environment it's inevitable that we will need Metro available at some point in time to run some future Metro app.  The issue for us is functionality.  We've got thousands of users trained to run their computers a certain way and to hand them Metro as the new user interface would be a disaster for us.  To some folks it's not a big deal, but when you have thousands of users with an extreme range of computing skills and knowledge, having the Start Menu in the Desktop Interface so it's basically the same as in XP/Vista/7 is necessary to avoid a lot of problems.

    All Microsoft needs to do to solve this problem is simply put the Start Menu back in the Desktop Interface, let us choose which interface initially comes up, and allow you to manually switch between the two.  Keep Aero in the Desktop side and then you have Metro on that side.  Problem solved.

    (At home on my personal computer, I'd probably take your advice and set the registry hack to eliminate Metro altogether because I find it disfunctional on a non-touch device.)

    p.s. - Why are you yelling in all your posts with CAPS lock on? 


    • Edited by KHemmelman Thursday, October 27, 2011 7:31 PM
    Thursday, October 27, 2011 6:48 PM
  • I agree please allow option to disable it.
    • Edited by The Thinker Thursday, October 27, 2011 7:10 PM
    Thursday, October 27, 2011 7:10 PM
  • Yep, as a developer I can vouch that the features/improvements they have added to Windows OS (and kernel) are amazing. Starting from Vista onwards, they keep adding amazing features/functionality making one of the best OSes out there. Windows 8 has “gold” in the kernel, it is going to be a fantastic OS for every device, especially laptops.

    Then they have the marketing team controlling the front end and adding the silliness of Metro UI destroying the user interface experience for desktops and laptops. What can I say…I disabled the Metro UI completely through the registry and try to focus on the OS. Then again I want the WinRT and the new task manager UI, but switching off the Metro from the reg, takes out the new task manager.

    Will they add the option to switch off the rectangle madness? We will soon find out, but if I was working for MS in the desktop/OS team I would be very annoyed if they are undoing all my good work by hiding behind an inferior UI like Metro.

    Thursday, October 27, 2011 8:32 PM
  • I'm going to post my opinions as a developer, home user, gamer. I have installed W8 as my home desktop and I'm using the developer preview device as my day to day tablet for work. My first reaction was woah this is different. However I'm not as negative as most of you are being.

    After many weeks of running W8 as my main OS I can tell you this. Games are faster, all application are faster, boot times are just amazing.

    The problem that most people are having are with Metro. The Metro start menu is freakin awesome. The problem comes in with people learning to use it because it is so different. Changing / cycling applications is so easy. Getting to your application shortcuts is easy. Now it does have issue that need to be worked out like just install Office 2010. You end up with a ton of icons just bunched up that now you have to sort. And removing icons with keyboard and mouse is combersome. However all that can be worked out.

    I think most people issues are that it's so different. I challenge you all to just approach the new start menu with the acceptance that it is different and take the time to understand it and I think that it's not as bad as you're describing.

    I have to admit that after so many years it's sometimes catching me off guard when I hit the Windows key and the start menu covers my 37 inch monitor. :P


    Thanks,
    Bobby Cannon
    BobbyCannon.com
    Thursday, October 27, 2011 8:36 PM
  • @Bobby

    I also have a 30” monitor and anything that covers it without a good reason and/or the option to change its behaviour is a big NO for me. I don’t doubt that there are going a lot of people that they may not mind the transition to full screen and back, but I cannot get used to it no matter how hard I tried. Why should I have any app covering my download progress, my video conference window, my video playback or anything I am currently doing?

    Please stop repeating the message “oh it is new, you will get used to it” etc. Some of us are also experienced developers and we have gone through all versions of Windows without any problem. This is not an evolutionary step in the Windows UI. This is not Windows UI, it is a tablet/Phone UI. There is nothing in its functionality that doesn’t contradict the desktop usage, it is actually undoing 20 years of Windows evolution.

    Also, there is no point, as far as I am concerned, for anything like the start menu and search to take over my monitor given the functionality they provide is not that important to me. Searching for files is not my job and all the applications I need most of the time are pinned on the task bar. Using Windows 8 with the Metro UI is counterproductive and I rather stay with Windows 7 until they get the message or if not I rather move to a different platform all together.

    Windows Phone 7 UI (which I have one already in the form of an Omnia7) is not the right paradigm for desktop use no matter what argument they use. Each device needs an appropriate user interface to make full use of its capabilities and compensate for its handicaps. My desktop environment does not have any issues, but Metro UI is actually creating them for no good reason.

    Nobody asked Microsoft to unify the desktop and tablet/phone user experiences (maybe just their Marketing team did), let alone make the desktop a second class citizen on my PC. If they don’t like my desktop and my Windows, then I don’t like them and their new OS.

    Thursday, October 27, 2011 8:59 PM
  • mil i kind of agree with you but im not as negative i would still let them approach it for home editions but as for professionals that do more then html and web design programming the desktop is a challenge and metro is just a fancy app ontop of the desktop you still have desktop apps their not gone. Booby the desktop apps are still their but were talking about having metro disabled in professional and enterprise editions.
    Off course microsoft could keep it for home users but still give a control panel option to turn off.
    • Edited by The Thinker Thursday, October 27, 2011 9:23 PM
    Thursday, October 27, 2011 9:22 PM
  • @ The Thinker: I was not referring to all editions of Windows 8 or all the users. I am focusing on desktop (professional) editions and professional users.

    So I agree with you, for some editions of Win8 that come with touch screen enabled desktops from the likes of HP and Sony, I would agree of course, Metro UI has its uses, so there should be an edition for it.

    For the rest of the desktop/server versions of the OS, Metro UI should be hidden and allow for it to be enabled by the user options only. Otherwise we will have something like the “professional edition” of Windows with a Metro UI, that would be so funny and wrong. Only Microsoft can make that mistake in that scale, I hope they do not make that mistake.

    Friday, October 28, 2011 5:28 AM
  • Ohhhhhhhhh wait a second.

    But there's nothing wrong with the Metro UI actually !  Why people are bashing at that ?  It's just plain usefull, lightweight and easy to use.  I agree that it's not inviting and not very beautyful but at least, we will be able to use a Microsoft Tablet with a store AT LAST.  As a developer point of view, of course I will never code on a tablet I will just use it as a media device as well as the iPad, the Android and any other one like that.  PC is the developer future and tablet is the end user future.

    Ok that said, I'm sure IT's as well as Developers and end users will all be happy at the end since this is just called a DEVELOPER PREVIEW.  I'm sure MS is not going to let things like this for the final product.  I'm a Vista user and have never go to Windows 7 because the lack of everything I have in Vista so I'm the one who will go from Vista to 8

    One good idea for MS, please don't do the mistake you did on Windows Phone and also Apple did the same thing, not having video preview of apps so aside of the Screenshots, put a Videos so developers can show gameplay of the app.

    Thank you MS and keep the good work but please hurry, I need Blend for C#/xaml development on the UI,  You're cutting the legs of many by just making it available for HTML5 and JavaScript.  VS design surface is just plain wrong.

     

     


    Marcheur extrême...
    • Edited by GearWorld Saturday, October 29, 2011 10:21 AM
    Friday, October 28, 2011 10:04 AM
  • @Bobby

    Please stop repeating the message “oh it is new, you will get used to it” etc. Some of us are also experienced developers and we have gone through all versions of Windows without any problem. This is not an evolutionary step in the Windows UI. This is not Windows UI, it is a tablet/Phone UI. There is nothing in its functionality that doesn’t contradict the desktop usage, it is actually undoing 20 years of Windows evolution.

    ...

    Nobody asked Microsoft to unify the desktop and tablet/phone user experiences (maybe just their Marketing team did), let alone make the desktop a second class citizen on my PC. If they don’t like my desktop and my Windows, then I don’t like them and their new OS.

    I will not stop repeating the message that it's new and get used to it because it's fact and that the future brings change. I could ask you to stop whining but I don't because you have a right to discuss your feelings on the new W8 developer preview. We should be able to discuss without telling each other we are wrong.

    Microsoft is bringing unification to the desktop, tablet, media (xbox) and phone because we have to move forward. The start menu hasn't changed in years and nows the time for change. When Windows 95 came out, I struggled with wanting to move from DOS to Windows because I thought "there's no way this Windows idea is going to work because the mouse is just too slow". Look where we are today. I hate even having to drop into a console. Change is hard but in the end it's worth it. You just have to give it a chance and realize this implementation is still very new. It will get better with time just like the start menu and everything else.

    There's also no reason the UI shouldn't be very similar across all devices. The Metro UI can cover all UI sized from phone screens to huge high def +30 screens. You say Metro doesn't work on a desktop but I disagree. I think it works beautifully. Microsoft is definantly on the right track.

    Just my two copper and it's OK if we disagree. I do however think you should just accept it because Metro isn't going anywhere. You will have to deal with it so it would be best to start now. :P


    Thanks,
    Bobby Cannon
    BobbyCannon.com
    Friday, October 28, 2011 12:36 PM
  • @The Thinker

    Booby the desktop apps are still their but were talking about having metro disabled in professional and enterprise editions.
    Off course microsoft could keep it for home users but still give a control panel option to turn off.

    Booby? LOL

    OK, I'm not understanding why metro should be disbled for professional and entrprise editions. Why do people keep saying this? What is the reasoning / logic? What are you losing?

    Comfort because the users knows the old start menu? Basically sometimes we have to push foward and pull all those that don't want to come with us. In the end it will work out for the best and progress is made.

    Let's make some progress.


    Thanks,
    Bobby Cannon
    BobbyCannon.com
    Friday, October 28, 2011 12:42 PM
  • @divinglog2

    ... and MS adds no official way to keep the Win 7 start menu along with Metro, I will skip this Windows version and it is the first time since Win ME. And as a desktop developer I also want to make use of the Win RT and cloud features.


    Why skip this version? Do you think that this version will be the only one with the Metro start menu? You think they are going to introduce a new start menu with a new OS but then take it away in the following release?

    Uh, if the start menu is the new Metro start menu in Windows 8 it will be Metro until they decide to change it again which will probable be years later.


    Thanks,
    Bobby Cannon
    BobbyCannon.com
    Friday, October 28, 2011 12:47 PM
  • I am loving Microsoft systems, frist, the best two for me, Windows XP and Windows 7 only, but in principle, and Windows 8 is very normal and did not see a new innovation from Microsoft as especially "main interface" DiskTop! Metro interface must be the best and sweetest piece of a much, because it is the first link between the user and the system is the "interface system" and not the features! Should be more comfortable and more interesting because it is will be the key to the look of the first rule of "bad or great"

    For example: Ubuntu has a wonderful interface of the system, but I do not like using it! Because it is very boring! But the only link between me and Ubuntu "psychological comfort only" a simple, easy and wonderful "and interface only" for the piece I used it very little, but I did not delete the Ubuntu! Is very important.

    I hope that idea up and be understandable to all! And so sorry for the bad language

     

    Friday, October 28, 2011 1:20 PM
  • Bobby, you are correct that folks should be able to discuss this.  It's not the end of the world and discussions like this (hopefully) provide at least someone in Microsoft feedback from the real world.  (Though I doubt they are listening to what is being said here.)

    I do disagree with you, but that's alright.  My problem isn't that Metro exists in Windows 8, it's that we are forced to use it.  All our apps run in the Desktop interface, so it's just not functional to constantly have to switch away from running apps to go searching for a new one to start only to have it switch back to the desktop interface to run the app.  Why not allow both a Start Menu in the Desktop interface and the Metro interface too?  What are you, or Microsoft, losing if they offered both and gave us an option to select which interface to boot into?  Isn't more functionality and options better than less?  And wouldn't it make the transition from Windows 7 to Windows 8 more appealing to a wider audience?

    (OK, I also have to admit I think Metro is not an attractive interface at all with the huge square tiles.)

    It's easy to tell people to just be quiet and get used to it and move forward when you don't have to deal with 10,000 users complaining or pay for their training, or pay for the upgrade process or deal with the massive interruption an upgrade like this would create.  That's a completely unnecessary inconvenience & cost to have just because Microsoft wants you to run your desktops/laptops as if they are a touch style device.  So there needs to be a very good reason to upgrade other than "well you need to move forward" or "Microsoft said so".  If we could have a Start Menu in the desktop interface and select to boot into that interface, it would make things more appealing to know that our users could have a functional and familiar interface to deal with.  But as is, I can see nothing but headaches if we were to consider moving to Windows 8 and we have enough headaches to deal with already and an OS upgrade shouldn't be something you dread doing.

     


    • Edited by KHemmelman Friday, October 28, 2011 3:05 PM
    Friday, October 28, 2011 1:55 PM
  • Why skip this version? Do you think that this version will be the only one with the Metro start menu? You think they are going to introduce a new start menu with a new OS but then take it away in the following release?

    Uh, if the start menu is the new Metro start menu in Windows 8 it will be Metro until they decide to change it again which will probable be years later.


    Thanks,
    Bobby Cannon
    BobbyCannon.com
    When a lot of users skip this version Microsoft will very likely change things in Windows 9. Look at Vista (which was not so bad at all and I've used it for 3 years): It was not accepted by end users and Microsoft fixed a lot of things in Windows 7. Right now I think Win 8 will be even worse, Win 7 will be the new XP and MS will fix things in Win 9. But they have now the last chance to fix it in Win 8, so we don't have to wait another 4 years from now. Regarding Metro: Do you really think, most professional applications will be ever ported to Win RT and Metro? Just look at all these apps today: they even don't use Vista and Win 7 API's, which could be implemented very easily (Jumplists, taskbar progress, commandlink buttons, extended Aero glass, new task dialogs). Do you see any of these "new" technologies in Photoshop, AutoCAD, Office etc? Photoshop does not even use the new common file dialogs. Most apps will target the desktop, at least to stay backwards compatible. Can you write an app which is Win 8 only? Metro apps will be like phone apps, small fun apps but nothing to get real work done. Why do we need a Metro start screen when we stay on the desktop most of the time anyways?
    Friday, October 28, 2011 5:42 PM
  • @Bobby: Thanks for your postings you are just proving the point of Metro UI and I guess you are right there has to be a UI like that. I can understand you find very challenging working with the current Start Menu of Windows 7 and you need something simpler. Metro UI is the answer for you.

    But what about the rest of us? Shouldn’t we have the option to switch it off? No according to you, so this is where we disagree. I prefer a more democratic version of Windows.

    I am sure you cannot understand the difference between “evolving a feature” and “here is something completely useless, but new”, but hey as long as we “can get used to it” …whatever, we will be fine.


    • Edited by mil_ Friday, October 28, 2011 7:25 PM
    Friday, October 28, 2011 7:24 PM
  • I agree with Bobby in that unification of UI is a good idea - As long as it is tailored to meet the strengths of each platform:

    The current start screen is fantastic on a tablet (considering this is still pre-beta) and yesterday I had 20 minutes playing on a WP7 phone and I thought that was pretty good too, but the start screen doesn't play well to the strengths of a mouse (I think it's pretty good making use of the keyboard) and on a desktop that shift between desktop applications and the start screen is jarring.

    Have a look at WindowsVista567's thread http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/windowsdeveloperpreviewgeneral/thread/7089effc-4c52-4448-bc71-5586a9e4004e because I think he's come up with the best idea yet of how to make the start screen acceptable to desktop users (aero version of start screen if you don't want to go look).

    With regard to corporate users... What organisation would migrate to Win8 before the 1st service pack? By the time it hits corporate desktops the users will probably have been using W8 at home for ages. Note: I'm not disrespecting this reason (I think it's perfectly valid) but I do wonder how likely a scenario it will be.

    I've seen many compelling reasons to keep the start menu voiced on this forum as well as many ideas how to make the start screen better. I'll echo Bobby's 'Get over it' message to those that simply state 'I'll never go W8 because of metro' without explaining why, and to those who are justifying why they're reluctant to migrate keep on voicing those use cases and I hope MS take note.

     

     


    Acer W500 tablet & dock, New 'works' Lenovo laptop Too much apple stuff. Remember: A Developer Preview is just that, a preview for developers - not everything will work 'just right' on day 1.
    Friday, October 28, 2011 11:02 PM
  • Corporate users will use Windows 8 with full screen Start Menu/Search etc because they will get used to it at home? Ok…you guys are not expressing your opinions here, these are you wishes.

    According to some interviews I watched Microsoft had said that there will be a group policy to switch off Metro across the company PCs. Anyway, Windows 8 is quite irrelevant to many organizations, since they are just started moving from Windows XP to Windows 7 and there is no way they will have completed the move by the time Windows 8 is out. Each of these moves involves massive migration efforts and they are not going to be performing them unless there were tangible benefits.

    So Windows 8 purpose actually is to enable Microsoft to enter the tablet space and unify the user interface experiences as you said. In my opinion they will have their run and they will present a unified environment even though they know that this does not work on the desktop. But it doesn’t matter because by that time they may have reclaimed some of the “content consumer” space they are losing fast at the moment.

    WinRT on the other hand will grow to take over a lot of the Win32 functionality, and it seems like it has a nice future.

    As a developer I would develop apps for the tablets but when it comes to the desktop I would continue working with the Win32 (and look at WinRT) because full screen anything is not an option when writing applications used by corporate users for very good reasons.

    Saturday, October 29, 2011 9:33 AM
  • Just give us a piece of software intelligent enough to understand us clearly to be able to remove completely any start screen and make it always listening so we just say START Internet Explorer.  This is what I like so much on Windows Phone but yet I have to hold a button for ages before starting to talk.  Common,

    Many people are complaining and yet sooner or later we'll be talking to our computers to ask something making Start menus or Metro start thing of the past.
    For now I'm just happy that we'll have something to touch.

     


    Marcheur extrême...
    Saturday, October 29, 2011 10:34 AM
  • @The Thinker

    Booby the desktop apps are still their but were talking about having metro disabled in professional and enterprise editions.
    Off course microsoft could keep it for home users but still give a control panel option to turn off.

    Booby? LOL

    OK, I'm not understanding why metro should be disbled for professional and entrprise editions. Why do people keep saying this? What is the reasoning / logic? What are you losing?

    Comfort because the users knows the old start menu? Basically sometimes we have to push foward and pull all those that don't want to come with us. In the end it will work out for the best and progress is made.

    Let's make some progress.

     


    I disagree for windows 8.

     

    Number 1: if its more then three clicks or actions it should be allowed to go to old ways of doing things like old start menu because it would waste productivity and companies would fire you before allowing you to waste their precious time fooling around with metro. After all time is money! Right? Why waste more clicks and sliding around metro to do something in 3d modeling and programming apps that need almost full screen to catch errors and correct make models (any 3d modelers can catch what im talking about when you have to have your car model full screen to do just one small detail)?

    Number 2: How will older apps work in metro directly? (especially ones that require more then two windows although unlikely).

    Number 3: What if i need to open more then two windows for doing 3d modeling ( metro is like the asshole in traffic that keeps cutting you off and giving you the finger when it comes to fullscreen functionality and using multiple windows) and advanced tasks like programming for more then one GUI? As far as to my know if i cant have more then two windows open and do a full screen switch in my enivronment i dont need it because i would lose productivity in my environment. 


    Number 4: no metro for corporate environments or the ability to disable it because it will just fustrate advanced users and professionals and users that havent used windows 8 yet. 

    If your html developer if i cant get to the page i need in three clicks throught links unless its a pdf doc then your not following the sdlc(software development life cycle) standards set by wc3 which make the development rules and/or standards and specify the code procedures for coding html and xml pages. wc3's website: http://www.w3.org/. I include this for windows phone app developers or for any touch device or phone either if it takes more then three clicks or taps to get to important functions in your program you can consider me a lost consumer.

    Bobby sorry i mispelled you name.


    Old inexperienced or younger programmers wouldn't use some part of the sdlc(software development lifecycle) at all and windows 8 metro clearly does not follow standards set by commerical companies and experienced programmers themselves that made the sdlc! Inexperienced or younger programmers wouldn't use the three click rule which includes the development of an OS shame on you microsoft.

    Here is the accessibility standards websites today must have to be fully accessible to people with disabilities:

    http://www.w3.org/TR/ATAG20/

    If you follow the important rules in the link above in your app or website you can make anyone happy.


    Thats why i disagree with you bobby i have evidence and have link to my evidence to show you that microsoft is clearly not following accessibility standards at all with metro and/or its limited. Lets stop firing your gun bobby and putting the cart before the horse when you speak.



    Yes its perfect for the tablet but try opening 3ds max in full screen windows mode to edit a vertex its impossible in windows 8 right without disabling metro? and also be able to switch to visual studio from 3ds max?





    • Edited by The Thinker Tuesday, November 1, 2011 3:59 PM
    Tuesday, November 1, 2011 3:40 PM
  • For crying out loud you people will keep us using ugly looking windows and side bars forever. I've been waiting a long time for computers to start embracing better looking and more interactive UIs. It's time to move forward. It is apparent throughout the world that people are realizing that they can also include good cosmetics to their designs. Yes people are use to windows as it has been for years and yes it is risky to produce a new UI because of that reliability but sooner or later it will have to change anyways. The only real problem I find is pulling open apps from the side screen. That's a gamer's problem at least.  Oh and I would appreciate it if the metro background was customizable along with the tiles color etc. I love the possibilities the future can bring.

    Monday, December 5, 2011 6:55 PM
  • It's not a good idea to change things that just work well for long time. Look at cars, they still have 4 wheels and a steering wheel because it works. Sure you can replace the steering wheel with a joystick, but do you really think it makes sense just to do something new. I'm not against innovation, but it has to be an improvement, otherwise don't change it. Metro UI on the desktop is not an improvement, it's a productivity disaster. Windows was better than DOS, so it was a useful change. Metro is not better than Windows, it's good for tablets and phones, but not for anything else.
    Monday, December 5, 2011 9:02 PM
  • Hey, they uttered the Magic Marketing Words "Bold" and "Reimagined"!  That makes it all okay, right?

    Using a computer for actual WORK is so darned BORING, and people who expect a computer to work just tend to get SO picky.  Better for Microsoft to just make money on toys instead.  You see, no one really cares that their portable electronic device doesn't really work; it's just so HIP and COOL to have one!

     

    Microsoft, I'm a 35 year computer software engineer who has worked PCs and Microsoft operating systems back to the first versions of DOS.  My main workstation is running Windows 7 x64, I have a server running Windows Vista x64, and I have always centered my working environment around Microsoft systems.  I currently develop products for PCs.  In short, I'm a Windows expert.

    Now knowing the direction Microsoft tablets are going, I just ordered an iPad 2 for Christmas.  What does that say to you?

     

    -Noel

    Wednesday, December 7, 2011 7:18 PM
  • Actually, I hadn't paid much attention to the font rendering; I'm sure it will be acceptable.  But even though ClearType is arguably superior to whatever Apple calls their font rendering, the basic usage of the UI has to not make your brain hurt.

    -Noel

    Wednesday, December 7, 2011 10:36 PM
  • Yes, my point exactly, but the purchase wasn't influenced just by the font rendering.  If it had, I'd probably have waited for a Windows tablet.

    I won't deny the availability of the iPad also figured in.  But I just am not willing to wait for Windows tablets to become available, even though I know they'll be cheaper (and likely less well-made for it), because we now see what the OS is going to work like, and I am just not attracted to Microsoft's game of playing "catch up" here.

    Will I upgrade to Windows 8 on a desktop system in the future?  Probably, then tweak it with the inevitable tools that will come out all over the world to minimize the influence of Metro on it.  Will I buy a Windows tablet at some time in the future?  Who knows?  Probably.  These things are not bank breakers, after all.

    Ask yourself why Metro has to step in front of the work we're doing...  Couldn't we just have simple, big-font, code-in-whatever-language-suits-you Metro apps that run inside a window on a desktop computer?  Lord knows modern GPUs are capable of scaling the display however one would like.  But that would just be so OLD and BUSTED!

    You really don't expect a company to make a change where the very product name no longer actually describes the product.  Or are they going to call it "Microsoft Window 8"?  Maybe "Microsoft Full Screen 8"?

    -Noel


    • Edited by Noel Carboni Wednesday, December 7, 2011 11:03 PM
    Wednesday, December 7, 2011 11:02 PM
  • The "Apple Store" is where you buy Apples.

    The "App Store" is where Apple makes billions when those using the Apples purchased above buy applications.

    It's interesting that Apple doesn't seem to be trying to squish their portable device and desktop device OSs together into one (yet).

    Microsoft clearly wants to emulate Apple's App Store success, but I wonder whether more "to work" has to be built into their product for that to happen.

    In all seriousness, Microsoft will probably be wildly successful.  That doesn't mean Windows 8 will be the platform of choice for serious computer users based on how it works.  But it's possible that we may all have to suck it up and embrace what Microsoft's doing here.  Then we can have high hopes for improvement in Windows 9.

    And, as with every version of the OS they make, let's not forget that they themselves use Windows to develop Windows, and so we'll probably be the benefit of tweaks, etc. to make life better for us as well.

    -Noel

    Thursday, December 8, 2011 3:36 PM
  • These things may be true, if Microsoft loses as much market share as a first look at the Windows 8 DP implies it will.  I have a good bit of Unix experience.  Up to now I chose to align myself with Windows.  Now...

    -Noel

    Saturday, December 10, 2011 2:49 PM