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Upgrading from EW2 to EW4 RRS feed

  • Question

  • I have EW4 disk on the way to me

    Should be here tomorrow

    Have been using EW2 for a couple years

    Wondering what is the best way to do the install on EW4

    I don't need both versions installed (if that is what will happen)

    Should I uninstall EW2 first and start clean?

     

    Monday, January 16, 2012 4:02 PM

Answers

  • Both will live happily on the same computer. I would leave EW2 installed, personally. At least for a period of transition.

    Take care, Mike

    • Marked as answer by EL34 Monday, January 16, 2012 6:30 PM
    Monday, January 16, 2012 4:10 PM

All replies

  • Both will live happily on the same computer. I would leave EW2 installed, personally. At least for a period of transition.

    Take care, Mike

    • Marked as answer by EL34 Monday, January 16, 2012 6:30 PM
    Monday, January 16, 2012 4:10 PM
  • What Mike said. First, all EW versions are capable of side-by-side install. Second, EW2 was the last version with VBA, which permits creating your own macros and simple add-ins. It is also the last version which permitted extensive customization of the toolbars, and a few other little features.

    In other words, there are many reasons to keep it, and with modern hard drive sizes, no reasons to remove it. Whaddya think?

    ;-)

    cheers,
    scott


    Please remember to "Mark as Answer" the responses that resolved your issue. It is common courtesy to recognize those who have helped you, and it also makes it easier for visitors to find the resolution later.
    Monday, January 16, 2012 4:20 PM
  • Hmm, ok makes sense to leave both

    but I am not happy to hear about the tool bar thing

    Are you saying I cannot create my own toolbars in EW4?

    I don't create anything too comlicated. but I do start from scratch and get rid of the stock toolbar

    I maybe add maybe 20 of the most poular tools and get rid of all the stuff I hardly ever use on my own toolbar

    Thanks

    Monday, January 16, 2012 4:29 PM
  • Hmm, ok makes sense to leave both

    but I am not happy to hear about the tool bar thing

    Believe me, you are NOT alone! ;-)

    When EW3 came out, there was much weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth about the loss of UI customization and macro capability. If you move back chronologically in the thread list to that period, you will see that basically no one was happy about it. Truth be told, we're still not, and those features remain among the most-requested over at UserVoice.

    Are you saying I cannot create my own toolbars in EW4?

    Yep, you got it.

    I don't create anything too comlicated. but I do start from scratch and get rid of the stock toolbar

    I maybe add maybe 20 of the most poular tools and get rid of all the stuff I hardly ever use on my own toolbar

    Sorry, ain't hap'nin'. there's a "Custom Toolbar," but IMO, it's an anemic weak sister compared to what you could do in EW<3. There is much more that you cannot add to the custom bar than what you can add. You will NOT be happy.

    Now, don't get e wrong—there's a LOT of really awesome goodness in EW4 SP2, more than enough to make it worth the trivial investment. However, since you can round-trip between EW2 and EW4, using the best of both, I always advise those who have EW2 to keep it when they upgrade.

    cheers,
    scott



    Please remember to "Mark as Answer" the responses that resolved your issue. It is common courtesy to recognize those who have helped you, and it also makes it easier for visitors to find the resolution later.
    Monday, January 16, 2012 5:16 PM
  • Makes no sense to me

    Every program I  have paid for allows you to have your own custom tool bars

     

    Monday, January 16, 2012 5:26 PM
  • Wondering what is the best way to do the install on EW4

    I agree that you should keep EW2 online until you are comfortable with EW4. There are enough changes through the EW3/EW4 cycle that you might find a few problems here and there.

    I also agree that the toolbar situation is bad but I don't think it's a deal-breaker. I think the benefits of EW4 outweigh the loss of full custom toolbars.

    Be sure to install EW4 SP2 if your disk does not include it.


    Will
    Baltimore, MD USA - www.fastie.com
    Monday, January 16, 2012 6:02 PM
  • yes, I will keep EW2 and see how EW4 goes

    I got EW4 cheap at $43.10 including shipping, so it's not a huge loss if I hate it

    Thanks for the help

    Monday, January 16, 2012 6:29 PM
  • ... so it's not a huge loss if I hate it

    It would be a huge loss if you didn't use it. EW4 is much better than EW2. The core improvements and new features should trump minor UI issues. Just be thankful you missed EW3.
    Will
    Baltimore, MD USA - www.fastie.com
    Monday, January 16, 2012 6:44 PM
  • To be clear...You can create and edit multiple custom toolbars in EW4. I don't know what Scott and Will are missing, but you have hundreds of commands (400 or so) that you can use on multiple custom toolbars in EW4.

    Make sure you install the service packs after you install EW4.


    Comic Sans walks into a bar. The bartender says, "Get out! We don't serve your type."
    Monday, January 16, 2012 6:48 PM
  • Bill, you are right as usual. The bad part is that the default toolbars can't be customized to taste.
    Will
    Baltimore, MD USA - www.fastie.com
    Monday, January 16, 2012 6:53 PM
  • To be clear...You can create and edit multiple custom toolbars in EW4. I don't know what Scott and Will are missing, but you have hundreds of commands (400 or so) that you can use on multiple custom toolbars in EW4.

    Make sure you install the service packs after you install EW4.


    Comic Sans walks into a bar. The bartender says, "Get out! We don't serve your type."


    Ok, now I am confused, but glad

    How can the other users think this simple feature is not available???

    (yes, I knew about EW3 right after it came out and so I sat tight, perfectly happy with EW2)

     

    Monday, January 16, 2012 6:55 PM
  • "Bill, you are right as usual. The bad part is that the default toolbars can't be customized to taste"

     

    Ok, I think I see what the others were saying

    The stock toolbars cannot be changed but you can create your own from scratch, correct?

    I always uncheck the stock toolbars and create my own from scratch

    Monday, January 16, 2012 7:00 PM
  • Hmm, ok makes sense to leave both

    but I am not happy to hear about the tool bar thing

    Are you saying I cannot create my own toolbars in EW4?

    I don't create anything too comlicated. but I do start from scratch and get rid of the stock toolbar

    I maybe add maybe 20 of the most poular tools and get rid of all the stuff I hardly ever use on my own toolbar

    Well you can create one "favorites" type toolbar but that sadly is all and then only after you install the service packs. Which I would suggest doing since they actually add features like a code snippet panel so it is worth updating to the latest SP. As Scott mentioned you are not the only one who misses the ability to create your own toolbar though I believe it is still posssible if you create a custom add in using COM - nothing I'd ever do though.

     


    Free Expression Web Tutorials
    For an Expression Web forum with without the posting issues try expressionwebforum.com
    Monday, January 16, 2012 8:10 PM
  •  

     

    Ok, so now I am back to being confused 

    First I get two people saying you can't have any custom toolbars

    Then I get one, saying yes you can and you can have multiples
    "To be clear...You can create and edit multiple custom toolbars in EW4"

     

    Now I get one that says you can create one favorite, but then you say this
     " you are not the only one who misses the ability to create your own toolbar"

    Can you or can you not create your own toolbar and add some tools to it?

    Are we all on the same page here? 

    This is one of my custom toolbars
    This is what I want tro create in EW4

    • Edited by EL34 Monday, January 16, 2012 8:30 PM
    Monday, January 16, 2012 8:20 PM
  • With EW 4 original and SP 1 you needed an add-in to create a single custom toolbar since there is no native ability to create a custom toolbar: http://gallery.expression.microsoft.com/CustomToolbars2

    With EW 4 SP2  this is what MS has to say http://expression.microsoft.com/en-us/hh290892 

    Custom toolbars

    With Expression Web 4 SP2, we’ve built custom toolbars into Expression Web. This feature allows you to create any number of custom toolbars using any of the built-in (internal) Expression Web commands. The Custom Toolbars feature is found under the View menu.

    Custom Toolbars feature

    That is as official as you are going to get.


    Free Expression Web Tutorials
    For an Expression Web forum with without the posting issues try expressionwebforum.com
    Monday, January 16, 2012 9:40 PM
  • You definitely can create multiple toolbars. I just made 3 this afternoon to test it.

    And you can display more than one and you can duplicate the controls on each of them and they can share a row.

    You cannot customize the standard toolbars, but you can roll your own to your heart's content.

    After I wrote earlier that I didn't know what Scott and Will were missing, I realized (as I was out running errands) that that could be taken two ways. I meant that I didn't know what they wanted it to do that it couldn't (since we all use EW differently and I don't use the toolbars very much at all).

    Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go clean up the mess I made scattering custom toolbars all over the place. ;-)


    Comic Sans walks into a bar. The bartender says, "Get out! We don't serve your type."

    Monday, January 16, 2012 11:06 PM
  • LOL, I hadn't tried to do more than one since that was all the add-in would do and I dont use toolbar buttons all that often.
    Free Expression Web Tutorials
    For an Expression Web forum with without the posting issues try expressionwebforum.com
    Monday, January 16, 2012 11:47 PM
  • "Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go clean up the mess I made scattering custom toolbars all over the place. ;-)"

    LOL, I am going to go with what Bill has said twice

    And I also create more than one custom toolbar 

    One may be my main toolbar
    Others may peratin to specific task I may have to do over and over again.

    I will check Windows update for the service packs as soon as I have EW4 installed 

    Tuesday, January 17, 2012 12:22 AM
  • BTW, you can install the trial and updates, make your custom toolbars before you buy it. Then you can activate it if you are happy with it using the install key that comes on the DVD or in the receipt if you buy it online.
    Free Expression Web Tutorials
    For an Expression Web forum with without the posting issues try expressionwebforum.com
    Tuesday, January 17, 2012 1:18 AM
  •  This is one of my custom toolbars
    This is what I want tro create in EW4

    AFAIK, since you want that "Insert Picture from File" button, you can't do that. I could be mistaken, and believe me, nothing would make me happier than to be disabused of this notion. Seriously, so if someone can point out to me how to do what I want to do, and could quickly and easily do in EW2, hoo-rah! By all means, prove me wrong and I will both acknowledge it and offer my sincere gratitude for the knowledge!

    Look, apparently this has become a matter of debate. Fine, no problem. I'm prepared to defend my statement. My habit back when using EW2 was to do as you do. Since I prefer the keyboard, and Intellisense, I use a very limited subset of the EW visual interface, and in EW2 I built a custom toolbar containing the very few tools I used from the included EW toolbars. One of those we appear to have in common, from looking at your screenshot—the "Insert Picture from File" button.

    OK, so I try to add a single, simple straightforward button to the custom toolbar in EW4. After using View|Custom toolbars... to launch the dialog, I looked in the available commands in the left column. Hmm... no "Insert Picture from File." Only seven items with "Insert..." at all, none of which have anything to do with "Picture" that I can see.

    Anyway, no "insert...," so let's look for "image." Yep, there're two of them, "Image" and "Image Button." Bear in mind that, other than the name of the command, ZERO information is provided in the dialog describing what you are selecting. Nada. Zilch. Nothing. So, on a hunch, I select both of the only available "Image" options (with no clue what I'm about to get) and add them.

    Allrighty, then. Back in the EW UI, I place the caret at the desired position, click the "Image" button on the Custom toolbar, and get "<img src="" />". That's it. No "File Open" dialog to browse for the image, and after selecting one, no "Accessibility Properties" dialog to enter alt text, browse for longdesc, etc. (Basically, this is the functionality I want that keeps me from just using only the Code View toolbar. It's one of the few things that I can't do faster and more conveniently at the keyboard with Intellisense.) Disappointing...

    OK, let's try the "Image Button" icon on the Custom toolbar. You're gonna just l-u-u-u-v this. Here's what you get: <asp:ImageButton id="ImageButton2" runat="server" />

    Yep, that's what you think it is—an ASP.NET Image Button control. Really close in functionality to what you get from the "Insert Picture from File" toolbar item, don'tcha know... ;-)

    Now, as I said, I could be mistaken, but I scrolled through every command listed, top to bottom, and then just for good measure, bottom to top, looking for something I might have missed, and didn't see it. I did find "Picture," which when placed on the toolbar and then clicked, does... absolutely nothing (which is at least hinted by its gray, text-only toolbar "button").

    Since this function is not available on the Code View toolbar (the only one of which I use most of the functionality, and as a default toolbar, one which cannot be modified), and I can't add it to my custom toolbar, in order to have access to it, I would have to have one of the toolbars containing it visible, which, given the objective to distill down to a single toolbar, completely obviates creating a custom toolbar to begin with.

    So, I'd be very happy to have one of the folks averring that you can do so show me just how he accomplishes it. I will be quite suitably chastened if it turns out to be childishly simple and obvious, not to mention freaking amazed, given the time I've spent looking...

    cheers,
    scott


    Please remember to "Mark as Answer" the responses that resolved your issue. It is common courtesy to recognize those who have helped you, and it also makes it easier for visitors to find the resolution later.
    Tuesday, January 17, 2012 1:25 AM
  • Scott,

    Prepare to be suitably chastened.

    It's called "From File" (presumably short for the tool hint "Insert Picture from File" for that button on the Pictures toolbar), and, yes it's there to be added to a custom toolbar.  :)



    • Edited by KathyW2 Tuesday, January 17, 2012 1:49 AM
    Tuesday, January 17, 2012 1:46 AM
  • Thanks for that tip because I use the insert picture button a bunch.

    I'll be hunting that one down for my EW4 toolbar

    Tuesday, January 17, 2012 2:07 AM
  • I for one, never use the insert picture button.  I just drag the image onto the page using the mouse.  Faster, and works both for images already in the site folder structure (drag them from the Folder Panel) and for those in other locations on your computer (drag them from their existing folder onto the page, and EW will prompt you to save them into the site when you save the page).  :)
    • Edited by KathyW2 Tuesday, January 17, 2012 2:45 AM
    Tuesday, January 17, 2012 2:43 AM
  • Well, that makes perfect sense, put it with all the other "From..." commands. So much better than having categories of buttons as in EW2 (and Office, etc.) That must be the new paradigm--leave 'em in the dark. Sheesh!

    Why would they string 400 controls in a huge lump with no categories?

    Which reminds me of a friend, a conductor at a mid-sized city orchestra--not one of the biggies, but not a community orchestra either. As he walked through the office he saw a bank of cabinets with drawers labelled A, B-C, D, E-G, etc. But there were lots of drawers labelled P, and he couldn't figure out why that would be. After over a year he asked the office manager, who'd been there for decades, why there were so many drawers labelled with a P (neither the city nor the orchestra's name began with P). She told him, as though it were completely obvious, "Those are for People who buy season tickets, People who donate, People who volunteer, People who..." etc.

    You might not agree with her system, but at least she had one, unlike the Customize toolbars.


    Comic Sans walks into a bar. The bartender says, "Get out! We don't serve your type."


    Tuesday, January 17, 2012 3:14 AM
  • "I for one, never use the insert picture button.  I just drag the image onto the page using the mouse"

    To each his own is the old saying, I hardly ever drag and drop files.

    I never do that because my images are all on shared network drives and it takes forever to weed through a diretory tree to get to them. EW remembers the last place I grabbed an image and goes there faster than I can navigate. Even faster than having a shortcut to the image folders location.
    All my documents are on shared network drives so that I can get to them from all my machines.

    And, I always run EW full screen , so there is no monitor space available to go grab something and drop it. Even on 23" monitors, I can't get enough real estate for my liking and so I always run full screen on my programs.

    Also Dragging and Dropping has never been my favorite way to move files. It has gotten way better in Vista and W7 because you can actually tell that you have dropped the file into the correct folder.

    XP was hit or miss when dropping files into folders and so I just never used that method. Just got my first Windows 7 64 bit machine, but I still have 5 XP pro machines here on my local network.
    Had a vista notebook. Lived with vista until the warranty was out and then did  clean install of XP.

    It may be a while before I drop all my old XP habits.
    :)



    • Edited by EL34 Tuesday, January 17, 2012 11:23 AM
    Tuesday, January 17, 2012 11:21 AM
  • Don't confuse how Windows Explorer and EW do things when you drag an drop. If you are adding images from your locally defined folder you are simply grabbing the image from Folder List and dropping the image on the page. No file copy or changing required when you do that. When you drag from an explorer window you would be better off (in my opinion, workflow of course varies by user) dragging it into the folder on your site you want to use first. That way you don't end up with the possiblity of a file path that is referencing the file system instead of the document.

    When you drag into Expression Web from an Explorer window it copies the file, it doesn't move it.


    Free Expression Web Tutorials
    For an Expression Web forum with without the posting issues try expressionwebforum.com
    Tuesday, January 17, 2012 2:52 PM
  • Yes, thanks, I know that

    Tuesday, January 17, 2012 4:36 PM
  • Got my EW4 upgrade disk a while ago

    Installed EW4 without any problems

    Went and got SP1 and SP2

    Was able to create custom toolbars no problem after getting SP2

    EW4 looks really cool so far

    Like the SEO,  Super Preview and Jquery features

    Got to dig in and explore some more 

    Tuesday, January 17, 2012 9:10 PM