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Running Production VMs and Dev/Test VMs on the same hosts RRS feed

  • Question

  • According to the latest Product Use Rights document from October 2014, a new definition for Production Environments has been introduced as follows:

    "Production Environment means any Physical or Virtual OSE running a production workload or accessing production data, or any Physical OSE hosting one or more Virtual OSEs running production workloads or accessing production data".

    This would seem to suggest that the previous lack of clarity about the definition of a production Environment has now been resolved and the boundary would now be the OSEs.

    Would it be safe to "assume" that it is okay to run both production VMs and Dev/Test VMs on the same physical hosts as long as all OSEs are licensed regulary using non-MSDN licenses?

    In a scenario where System Center 2012 R2 has been fully deployed and Dev/Test users (MSDN Licensed) use service requests to request for Dev/Test VMs from the Infrastructure department team(non-MSDN licensed) using Service Manager. Would there be any need to purchase MSDN licenses for System Center operators who would be provisioning, monitoring and managing such VMs?

    PS: The System Center Operators in this case are not deploying any software obtained through MSDN licenses and all OSEs are licensed using non-MSDN licenses.

    Thanks in advance for your kind response.

    Best Regards,

    Dotun

    Monday, November 10, 2014 1:53 PM

Answers

  • Ack! Posted from my wrong account TWICE! Augh!  Here's the same:

    Got it, yes you said that, thanks for clarifying! Glad we're on the same page now.

    My answers regarding licensing questions always come with caveats, and I'll just copy a recent one from here: I'm not your lawyer, and you need one to fully interpret this for you to see what they think you can defend in the event that Microsoft were to sue you, and in that event, you and I would be on opposite sides of a legal dispute.  There is no such thing as a "but Mike Kinsman said" defense :)  What counts here is what the documentation says, not what I say.  I'm going to use intentionally inconclusive language below and you'll need to reach your own conclusions. 

    Licensing interaction is confusing so i understand the need to raise the question, but the question comes down to what the software license allows.  If it covers your users for the uses they have, then you're good to go.  

    I did mention that I was making the quote from the most recent Product Use Rights document which is available here. My aim with the first question was to verify that it is okay for MSDN subscribers to use VMs from a set of hosts running both production and Dev/Test VMs as long as the OSEs (both physical and virtual) are all licensed with production licenses?

    You're asking specifically about production licenses and production software, and the question is what they allow.  Do your production licenses prevent the operation of MSDN software?  or prevent MSDN subscribers from using them?  Probably not, I'm thinking.

     I just needed a little clarity with the second question since the examples(Example 3 like you rightly mentioned) and description for the "Monitoring and Managing Development and Testing Environments Requires Management Licenses" section assume MSDN licenses were used for the OSEs. Since production licenses are being used, I would assume that there should be no need for MSDN licenses for the IT team?

    The way I'd think about it is if production licenses are being used, then its not MSDN Software thats being used, its Production software.  I'm just guessing, and I haven't seen your setup, but it seems like you're saying, your IT department doesn't actually use the MSDN software, so it doesn't seem like you'd need MSDN licences in this case.

    Does this help?

    Thanks, Mike


    MSDN and TechNet Subscriptions Support

    Did Microsoft call you out of the blue about your computer? No, they didn't.


    Tuesday, November 11, 2014 3:33 AM
    Moderator

All replies

  • Dotun, where does the text you quoted come from?  I couldn't find that string in the Visual Studio and MSDN Licensing Whitepaper from October 2014, which is available here: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=2b1504e6-0bf1-46da-be0e-85cc792c6b9d, and is always linked from here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/cc150618.aspx.

    Here's my screenshot from word:

    on to your other questions:

    The text on Virtual Environments requiring licensing in the october 2014 licensing whitepaper is (my emphasis added):

    When Virtual Environments Require a Separate License

    If a physical machine running one or more virtual machines is used entirely for development and test, then the operating system used on the physical host system can be MSDN software. However, if the physical machine or any of the VMs hosted on that physical system are used for other purposes, then both the operating system within the production environment VMs and the operating system for the physical host must be licensed separately. The same holds true for other software used on the system—for example, Microsoft SQL Server obtained as MSDN software can only be used to design, develop, test, and demonstrate your programs.  

    The sentence I bolded is what discusses when physical hosts must be licensed separately from MSDN.  

    Regarding the IT team doing some management work, there seem to be at least 2 relevant sections of the whitepaper.  They are called:

    "Different Licensed Users Can Run the Same Software"  - See especially "example 3"

    "Monitoring and Managing Development and Testing Environments Requires Management Licenses" - this entire section discusses use of System Center and will probably be very relevant for you.

    Let me know your thoughts!

    Thanks,
    Mike


    MSDN and TechNet Subscriptions Support

    Did Microsoft call you out of the blue about your computer? No, they didn't.


    Monday, November 10, 2014 7:14 PM
    Moderator
  • Thanks Mike for your response.

    I did mention that I was making the quote from the most recent Product Use Rights document which is available here. My aim with the first question was to verify that it is okay for MSDN subscribers to use VMs from a set of hosts running both production and Dev/Test VMs as long as the OSEs (both physical and virtual) are all licensed with production licenses?

     I just needed a little clarity with the second question since the examples(Example 3 like you rightly mentioned) and description for the "Monitoring and Managing Development and Testing Environments Requires Management Licenses" section assume MSDN licenses were used for the OSEs. Since production licenses are being used, I would assume that there should be no need for MSDN licenses for the IT team?

    Kind regards,

    Dotun

    Monday, November 10, 2014 8:47 PM
  • Ack! Posted from my wrong account TWICE! Augh!  Here's the same:

    Got it, yes you said that, thanks for clarifying! Glad we're on the same page now.

    My answers regarding licensing questions always come with caveats, and I'll just copy a recent one from here: I'm not your lawyer, and you need one to fully interpret this for you to see what they think you can defend in the event that Microsoft were to sue you, and in that event, you and I would be on opposite sides of a legal dispute.  There is no such thing as a "but Mike Kinsman said" defense :)  What counts here is what the documentation says, not what I say.  I'm going to use intentionally inconclusive language below and you'll need to reach your own conclusions. 

    Licensing interaction is confusing so i understand the need to raise the question, but the question comes down to what the software license allows.  If it covers your users for the uses they have, then you're good to go.  

    I did mention that I was making the quote from the most recent Product Use Rights document which is available here. My aim with the first question was to verify that it is okay for MSDN subscribers to use VMs from a set of hosts running both production and Dev/Test VMs as long as the OSEs (both physical and virtual) are all licensed with production licenses?

    You're asking specifically about production licenses and production software, and the question is what they allow.  Do your production licenses prevent the operation of MSDN software?  or prevent MSDN subscribers from using them?  Probably not, I'm thinking.

     I just needed a little clarity with the second question since the examples(Example 3 like you rightly mentioned) and description for the "Monitoring and Managing Development and Testing Environments Requires Management Licenses" section assume MSDN licenses were used for the OSEs. Since production licenses are being used, I would assume that there should be no need for MSDN licenses for the IT team?

    The way I'd think about it is if production licenses are being used, then its not MSDN Software thats being used, its Production software.  I'm just guessing, and I haven't seen your setup, but it seems like you're saying, your IT department doesn't actually use the MSDN software, so it doesn't seem like you'd need MSDN licences in this case.

    Does this help?

    Thanks, Mike


    MSDN and TechNet Subscriptions Support

    Did Microsoft call you out of the blue about your computer? No, they didn't.


    Tuesday, November 11, 2014 3:33 AM
    Moderator
  • Thanks Mike,

    I had to rephrase the question and sent it to Microsoft through our PSE and got a satisfactory answer that's quite close to what you suggested.

    I'll paraphrase the response below:

    "Yes, it is now allowed to run Dev/Test VMs together with Production VMs on the same host as long as the host and production VMs are licensed separately".

    So thanks for your assistance on this.

    Best regards,

    Dotun

     

     

    Friday, November 14, 2014 11:00 AM