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Logic Apps Vs BizTalk Server

    Question

  • Hi All,

    Can Logic apps replace BizTalk on premise? Are there any limitation of Logic apps which need  BizTalk Onpremise to be used?

    Thanks & Regards,

    Uday.

    Friday, November 11, 2016 5:47 AM

Answers

  • Hi Uday,

    BizTalk server is still the best on-premises integration platform available today, and that is not changing anytime soon. Microsoft is still committed to release a new version of BizTalk Server around about every 2 years or so.

    The current capabilities on Logic Apps are only a subset of those available in BizTalk Server. 

    Logic Apps are workflows that has orchestration like capabilities, but not all features of an orchestration are available currently. You can refer below links to get an overview-

    https://azure.microsoft.com/en-in/documentation/articles/app-service-logic-create-a-logic-app/

    http://blogs.biztalk360.com/first-look-azure-api-apps-logic-apps/

    Here are some of those missing capabilities in Azure App Platform:

    1) Control flow in the Logic Apps is still limited, the BizTalk Orchestrations allow you to run much more complex scenario where you use control shapes like the Listen Shape, Parallel Shape or Loop. For now you can expect the IFTTT like scenarios to be covered by Logic Apps.

    2) There is no easy way to make routing, pub/sub or correlation of messages easy but you can still do it by using the available connectors in combination with Service Bus Queues, Topics or even the Azure Table or Blob Storage

    3) Design time vs runtime experience for Logic Apps, on the of the great values of BizTalk is the separation of design time and deployment time, or even the ability to deploy new bindings in an automated way without having to go through the trouble of performing manual steps

    4) Reliability, no message lost guarantee, de/batching, large messages and transaction support are very niche requirements and have not been fully addressed in this release

    5) End to end tracking, currently there is no such thing that is equivalent of BAM, or an ability to extract important business critical information to be consumed by someone that is not interested in the technical details of the solution

    6) If you want to create maps you still have to rely on the BizTalk Services Mapper for the time being, but a full web version of the mapper has been promised

    BizTalk 2016 includes a Logic Apps adapter that would enable on-prem BizTalk to connect to Logic Apps. This will enable hybrid scenarios where some part of your integration solution will run in your datacenter, and some portion of the solution would run in Microsoft Azure. These hybrid scenarios would be a key enabler for many organisations going forward.

    Having said that, the Product Group is making most of it's investment in Logic Apps. Note that BizTalk Server is a very mature product and has a full-blown set of integration capabilities - there aren't too many gaps in the product. So it's better not to speculate that BizTalk Server has no future just because Logic Apps are here - both will enable different types of integration scenarios. In some cases, both would be leveraged to create hybrid integration solutions as mentioned earlier.

    Microsoft is planning to establish future "parity" between its Logic Apps and BizTalk Services. Logic Apps, though, will get the focus, going forward, according to the white paper.

    "Customers should be assured with our approach that we fully intend to provide all the capabilities they have today in BizTalk Services represented in our Logic Apps and App Service offering," the white paper explained. "Therefore, for new integration solutions we recommend customers target Logic Apps for their cloud-based integration workloads."

    While Logic Apps are currently offered as part of the Azure App Service, Microsoft is planning to make Logic Apps available for use on premises, too, either from the customer's datacenter or from the infrastructure of a hosting provider. Logic Apps will be enabled in this way via Azure Stack, a bundle of APIs and tools consistent between Azure infrastructure and Microsoft's 2016 server products. 

    A key enabler of this story is Azure Stack.  Without it we will not see the new Logic App assets running in your own data center.  Microsoft is targeting an “IPaaS” preview in Q2 2016 and GA by end of the 2016.


    image_thumb[1]

    Listen to the video: Microsoft Integration: Comparing an itegration scenario in Logic Apps and BizTalk Server


    Rachit Sikroria (Microsoft Azure MVP)

    Friday, November 11, 2016 5:58 AM
    Moderator
  • Hi,

    Logic apps provide various integration options on the cloud while On PRem Biztalk canbe used for On Prem as well as hybrid Integration.

    No The Logic apps will not completly used to replace the On Prem Biztalk, the main reason being legacy system. System like SAP orcale can be integrated properly using the On Prem Biztalk while it is not possibele with logic apps.

    On Prem biztalk is mature product which covers a lot of integration scenarios, now with release of OnPremBiztalk 2016, you can even consume the logic apps and achieve the Hybrid integration. (using the Logic apps Adapter)

    Logic APPs is still in its nascent stages and newer and newer features being added by Microsoft ecah and every week.

    So to answer the limitation with logic apps is that they are very young and it will take some time to use them to integrate the on prem legacy systems like SAP.

    Hence On PRem Biztalk needs to be used in such cases. And With release of Biztalk 2016, it is made sure that Microsoft has committed another 10 years to the fantastic and on prem Biztalk Server Product.

    The dependeny on the Biztalk On Prem will reduce in some cases but, it is not possible to force the legacy apps in a year or so on cloud without proper planning, so On Prem Integration is best option

    You can watch the address by Guru VenkatRaman

    https://www.biztalk360.com/biztalk-summit-2014/biztalk-microsoft-upcoming-server-release/

    Regards


    Mandar Dharmadhikari



    Friday, November 11, 2016 6:02 AM
    Moderator
  • Hi Uday

    There are quite a few gaps in current release of Logic Apps from on-prem BizTalk Server. Many of the features in orchestration are not available in a Logic App workflow. Also, there is not first-class support for XML and SOAP - there are still many B2B integration solutions that need XML and SOAP based integrations. 

    However, with the Enterprise Integration Pack (this is still in preview) for Logic Apps, much of these gaps will be addressed. Also, the Product Team is heavily investing on Logic Apps platform with the eventual goal of parity in features with on-prem BizTalk Server. 

    Once this parity happens, who knows which will be the preferred integration platform for different organisations. It will probably be a matter of choice based on numerous factors. But, BizTalk Server as you know is a very mature product and you can expect subsequent releases of on-prem BizTalk as outlined by the Product Group.

    Also refer below thread, it will give you helpful pointers as well-

    https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/840e7791-955d-42dd-943c-de957fcc5d28/future-of-logic-apps?forum=biztalkgeneral


    Thanks Arindam


    Friday, November 11, 2016 6:17 AM
    Moderator

All replies

  • Hi Uday,

    BizTalk server is still the best on-premises integration platform available today, and that is not changing anytime soon. Microsoft is still committed to release a new version of BizTalk Server around about every 2 years or so.

    The current capabilities on Logic Apps are only a subset of those available in BizTalk Server. 

    Logic Apps are workflows that has orchestration like capabilities, but not all features of an orchestration are available currently. You can refer below links to get an overview-

    https://azure.microsoft.com/en-in/documentation/articles/app-service-logic-create-a-logic-app/

    http://blogs.biztalk360.com/first-look-azure-api-apps-logic-apps/

    Here are some of those missing capabilities in Azure App Platform:

    1) Control flow in the Logic Apps is still limited, the BizTalk Orchestrations allow you to run much more complex scenario where you use control shapes like the Listen Shape, Parallel Shape or Loop. For now you can expect the IFTTT like scenarios to be covered by Logic Apps.

    2) There is no easy way to make routing, pub/sub or correlation of messages easy but you can still do it by using the available connectors in combination with Service Bus Queues, Topics or even the Azure Table or Blob Storage

    3) Design time vs runtime experience for Logic Apps, on the of the great values of BizTalk is the separation of design time and deployment time, or even the ability to deploy new bindings in an automated way without having to go through the trouble of performing manual steps

    4) Reliability, no message lost guarantee, de/batching, large messages and transaction support are very niche requirements and have not been fully addressed in this release

    5) End to end tracking, currently there is no such thing that is equivalent of BAM, or an ability to extract important business critical information to be consumed by someone that is not interested in the technical details of the solution

    6) If you want to create maps you still have to rely on the BizTalk Services Mapper for the time being, but a full web version of the mapper has been promised

    BizTalk 2016 includes a Logic Apps adapter that would enable on-prem BizTalk to connect to Logic Apps. This will enable hybrid scenarios where some part of your integration solution will run in your datacenter, and some portion of the solution would run in Microsoft Azure. These hybrid scenarios would be a key enabler for many organisations going forward.

    Having said that, the Product Group is making most of it's investment in Logic Apps. Note that BizTalk Server is a very mature product and has a full-blown set of integration capabilities - there aren't too many gaps in the product. So it's better not to speculate that BizTalk Server has no future just because Logic Apps are here - both will enable different types of integration scenarios. In some cases, both would be leveraged to create hybrid integration solutions as mentioned earlier.

    Microsoft is planning to establish future "parity" between its Logic Apps and BizTalk Services. Logic Apps, though, will get the focus, going forward, according to the white paper.

    "Customers should be assured with our approach that we fully intend to provide all the capabilities they have today in BizTalk Services represented in our Logic Apps and App Service offering," the white paper explained. "Therefore, for new integration solutions we recommend customers target Logic Apps for their cloud-based integration workloads."

    While Logic Apps are currently offered as part of the Azure App Service, Microsoft is planning to make Logic Apps available for use on premises, too, either from the customer's datacenter or from the infrastructure of a hosting provider. Logic Apps will be enabled in this way via Azure Stack, a bundle of APIs and tools consistent between Azure infrastructure and Microsoft's 2016 server products. 

    A key enabler of this story is Azure Stack.  Without it we will not see the new Logic App assets running in your own data center.  Microsoft is targeting an “IPaaS” preview in Q2 2016 and GA by end of the 2016.


    image_thumb[1]

    Listen to the video: Microsoft Integration: Comparing an itegration scenario in Logic Apps and BizTalk Server


    Rachit Sikroria (Microsoft Azure MVP)

    Friday, November 11, 2016 5:58 AM
    Moderator
  • Hi,

    Logic apps provide various integration options on the cloud while On PRem Biztalk canbe used for On Prem as well as hybrid Integration.

    No The Logic apps will not completly used to replace the On Prem Biztalk, the main reason being legacy system. System like SAP orcale can be integrated properly using the On Prem Biztalk while it is not possibele with logic apps.

    On Prem biztalk is mature product which covers a lot of integration scenarios, now with release of OnPremBiztalk 2016, you can even consume the logic apps and achieve the Hybrid integration. (using the Logic apps Adapter)

    Logic APPs is still in its nascent stages and newer and newer features being added by Microsoft ecah and every week.

    So to answer the limitation with logic apps is that they are very young and it will take some time to use them to integrate the on prem legacy systems like SAP.

    Hence On PRem Biztalk needs to be used in such cases. And With release of Biztalk 2016, it is made sure that Microsoft has committed another 10 years to the fantastic and on prem Biztalk Server Product.

    The dependeny on the Biztalk On Prem will reduce in some cases but, it is not possible to force the legacy apps in a year or so on cloud without proper planning, so On Prem Integration is best option

    You can watch the address by Guru VenkatRaman

    https://www.biztalk360.com/biztalk-summit-2014/biztalk-microsoft-upcoming-server-release/

    Regards


    Mandar Dharmadhikari



    Friday, November 11, 2016 6:02 AM
    Moderator
  • Hi Uday

    There are quite a few gaps in current release of Logic Apps from on-prem BizTalk Server. Many of the features in orchestration are not available in a Logic App workflow. Also, there is not first-class support for XML and SOAP - there are still many B2B integration solutions that need XML and SOAP based integrations. 

    However, with the Enterprise Integration Pack (this is still in preview) for Logic Apps, much of these gaps will be addressed. Also, the Product Team is heavily investing on Logic Apps platform with the eventual goal of parity in features with on-prem BizTalk Server. 

    Once this parity happens, who knows which will be the preferred integration platform for different organisations. It will probably be a matter of choice based on numerous factors. But, BizTalk Server as you know is a very mature product and you can expect subsequent releases of on-prem BizTalk as outlined by the Product Group.

    Also refer below thread, it will give you helpful pointers as well-

    https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/840e7791-955d-42dd-943c-de957fcc5d28/future-of-logic-apps?forum=biztalkgeneral


    Thanks Arindam


    Friday, November 11, 2016 6:17 AM
    Moderator
  • Hi Uday ,

    BizTalk and Logic apps both are integral part of Microsoft integration roadmap .

    BizTalk is responsible for on premise and hybrid Integration while logic apps responsible for running the workflow in he cloud . As per the integration Biztalk Server ,Logic Apps ,API Management , Service bus and Azure functions combines together to form a robust integration layer which is extended from on premise to cloud . 

    Currently i am working on both Logic Apps and BizTalk and could really tell you Logic Apps is of the best ipaas offerings with all the capability for a enterprise integration   . You can use the expression language ,Azure function and multitude of connectors  to build business workflow in the cloud .

    Let me know if your require more information , wll be happy to help you out . 


    If this answers your question please mark it accordingly. If this post is helpful, please vote as helpful by clicking the upward arrow mark next to my reply


    Friday, November 11, 2016 8:40 AM
  • Currently i am working on both Logic Apps and BizTalk and could really tell you Logic Apps is of the best ipaas offerings with all the capability for a enterprise integration   . You can use the expression language ,Azure function and multitude of connectors  to build business workflow in the cloud .

    I'm sorry, but this is simply not the case.  LogicApps is awesome but many important EAI bits are still baking.

    LogicApps will be a viable alternative, never a replacement, to BizTalk Server at some point in the future.  Depending on your scenario, maybe in 2017, maybe later.

    Saturday, November 12, 2016 4:50 AM
    Moderator
  • Hi Uday,

    Here is what Tord answered to your question:

    If your solution need to communicate with SaaS application, Azure workloads and cloud business partners (B2B) all in cloud then you should use Azure Logic Apps, but if you are doing lot of integration with on-premise processing by communicating with on-premise LOB applications, then BizTalk is the pretty good option. You can use both if you are doing hybrid integration.

    https://gautambiztalkblog.com/2017/06/28/when-to-use-logic-apps-vs-biztalk-server/

    Hope it helps!


    Thanks! Regards, Gautam


    Friday, July 28, 2017 9:21 PM

  • This is very common question and also valid, seeing how Logic app is getting evolved day by day. Have tried to cover few points in following post BizTalk Developer getting started with Logic App and also in the interview series

    How to Become BizTalk Expert Interviews 

    ___________

    Maheshkumar S Tiwari|User Page|Blog|The Messaging Engine failed to add a receive location

    Monday, July 31, 2017 7:49 AM