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Windows 8 "Desktop" is a non-starter for me as a user and developer

    General discussion

  • This zdnet article sums it up

    http://www.extremetech.com/computing/96249-5-deal-breaking-flaws-in-windows-8

    You should listen to them Microsoft.  Those 5 flaws make windows 8 a non-starter for me as a business application developer.  I am the developer that my organization turns to for leadership and advice on technology migration.  I have no intention of using much less recommending Windows 8 to my clients or customers.  In fact, unless all of those fundamental flaws with the windows 8 desktop are corrected, I will NEVER recommend windows 8.   Without those features,  windows just isnt windows.

    I could care less about metro right now for a couple of reasons; first I am primarily a web developer so my main concerns are HTML5, CSS3, JavaScipt, ASP.NET MVC and the Entity Framework and second because none of the users at my enterprise will be using windows 8 anytime soon, most are still on XP.   Metro is slick and cool but it is no subsitute for Windows XP or Windows 7 on the desktop.

    So, lets take a deep breath and not alienate your massive installed user base who have spent years using windows.  Stop trying to out-Apple Apple and be Microsoft.

    Tuesday, October 11, 2011 3:36 PM

All replies

  • I believe I saw somewhere where Microsoft may change things so you can actually close a Metro app.  But overall, I have to agree with the article.

    The lack of the "Start Menu" in the Desktop interface is a major disapointment for me.  I refuse to run my desktop like it's a cell phone.  I don't mind that Metro is in Win8, but I should have the "choice" to flip over to Metro and use it or to stay in Desktop with a Start Menu and not bother with Metro if I don't want to.  It's disfunctional and silly the way it is now.  The only time Metro should show it's ugly head is when I want to run a Metro app.  (Since you can't really multitask Metro apps, I'm hoping that none of the products I currently use ever port over to Metro style either.)

    Please Microsoft, simply offer me both a Desktop interface Start Menu and the Metro interface menu and let me choose how I run my computer.

     

    Tuesday, October 11, 2011 4:36 PM
  • I believe I saw somewhere where Microsoft may change things so you can actually close a Metro app.  But overall, I have to agree with the article.

    The lack of the "Start Menu" in the Desktop interface is a major disapointment for me.  I refuse to run my desktop like it's a cell phone.  I don't mind that Metro is in Win8, but I should have the "choice" to flip over to Metro and use it or to stay in Desktop with a Start Menu and not bother with Metro if I don't want to.  It's disfunctional and silly the way it is now.  The only time Metro should show it's ugly head is when I want to run a Metro app.  (Since you can't really multitask Metro apps, I'm hoping that none of the products I currently use ever port over to Metro style either.)

    Please Microsoft, simply offer me both a Desktop interface Start Menu and the Metro interface menu and let me choose how I run my computer.

     


    Microsoft is headed in the wrong direction for the deskop with Windows 8.   My pc is not an iPad.   The iPad is a consumption-task-oriented device, not a work-accomplishing-task-oriented device.  It is not designed to get actual work done in an app suite like office or visual studio.  The iPad is not designed to work with a keyboard and mouse.  My PC is.   Do you really think that everyone is just going to go along with Windows 8 because it has an MS logo on it Microsoft?

    I like to open up multiple programs and multiple instances of the same program (Visual Studio).   Windows 8 would bring my personal productivity to a standstill with a lack of multi-tasking and overlapping windows.   In fact, Windows 8 is not windows.   Its iPad metro.   Again, I can understand Windows 8 for pad or tablet devices but not on the desktop.

    Ok so MS did a survey of consumers who just bought PCs at best buy about what they did and didnt like and they built an OS around it.   No one asked my opinion as a developer.   No one talked to my Enterprise employer about Windows 8.

    Do you have any idea how your enterprise customers will react to Windows 8 on their desktop MS?

    I can tell you.  They will try to open outlook, then word, excel or powerpoint like they always do and they will find that they cant run them simultaneously.   Their reaction will be, get this crap off my desktop and roll back to XP, Vista or Windows 7.   To be honest, Windows 8 on the Enterprise desktop makes Windows Vista look like genius on the desktop.   Does anyone at MS remember the Windows Vista disaster?

    Windows 8 will be a bigger disaster than Vista on the Enterprise desktop.  

    Monday, October 31, 2011 11:34 AM
  • there is a very simple registry edit, that allows you to run both - just google!
    Monday, October 31, 2011 12:25 PM
  • there is a very simple registry edit, that allows you to run both - just google!


    This registry edit allows you to run both of what?

    Metro and the desktop? 

    I am talking about a desktop with a windows 7 like interface, not some hacked psuedo windows.   Something with

    1.  True multitasking.

    2.  A fully featured windows interface including close, minimize, maximize etc.

    3.  A start menu with desktop search.

    4.  Easy to find restart and shutdown.

    I am talking about windows, not metro.   The enterprise doesnt want or need metro on its desktop.   What you need to do Microsoft is to label the current windows 8 as a pad or tablet OS similar to the iOS, iWindows 8 or something.  Then you need to add a fully featured Windows 8 desktop version for power users, developers, enterprise and business users.  Call it Windows 8 professional.   You also need to NOT lock Windows 8 Professional down to your canned app store and allow enterprises to install their own apps. 

    You want to out-apple, apple MS?

    Not even apple has forced its desktop mac users to use the iOS.   At least follow their lead, its a smart thing to do, a two tiered strategy with two versions of windows, one for mobile/consumer, the other for business/enterprise.

     



    Monday, October 31, 2011 12:44 PM
  • there is a very simple registry edit, that allows you to run both - just google!


    If you're talking about the below registry key, you are wrong.  It completely removes Metro and you do not get both.

    HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer

    change value of RPEnabled from "1" to "0"

    Monday, October 31, 2011 1:28 PM
  • there is a very simple registry edit, that allows you to run both - just google!


    If you're talking about the below registry key, you are wrong.  It completely removes Metro and you do not get both.

    HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer

    change value of RPEnabled from "1" to "0"


    From what I understand, removing metro doesnt leave a windows 7-like or mac OS-like desktop experience.   What it gives you is the Windows 8 desktop with all of its cripped functionality and glaring omissions.

    I think that it is safe to say that if you have to edit the registry to "fix" windows, maybe you should take a look at windows itself.

    Thursday, November 03, 2011 6:24 PM
  • there is a very simple registry edit, that allows you to run both - just google!


    If you're talking about the below registry key, you are wrong.  It completely removes Metro and you do not get both.

    HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer

    change value of RPEnabled from "1" to "0"


    From what I understand, removing metro doesnt leave a windows 7-like or mac OS-like desktop experience.   What it gives you is the Windows 8 desktop with all of its cripped functionality and glaring omissions.

    I think that it is safe to say that if you have to edit the registry to "fix" windows, maybe you should take a look at windows itself.


    You do actually get a Windows 7 style Start Menu in the Desktop after making this change.  Basically it boots directly to the Desktop interface with a Start Menu and Metro no longer exists.

     

    Thursday, November 03, 2011 7:00 PM
  • The article is missing a few more important points:

    1. Windows 8 Metro doesn't have any windows anymore.  One of the fundamental concepts behind windows (little 'w') is the ability to have overlapping windows.  Metro doesn't allow that
    2. Metro does not have a story for multiple monitors
    3. A big part of Metro relies on the Zune interface, where scrolling is king.  This does not scale well, and worked very poorly on the Zune (every try scrolling through 1000 songs to get to the songs that start with 'W'?; at least Apple allows for a way to jump to any letter in the alphabet on the iPhone/iPod)
    4. MS claims that a big part of Metro is based upon the fact that users click on desktop icons rather more than using the Start menu.  That may be true (but, not for me), but I think they're missing the key insight that the user is choosing the icons to place on the desktop from the pool of - potentially hundreds - of icons on the Start menu. Try installing a lot of non-Metro software on Win8.  Your desktop now has maybe hundreds of tiles, in no discernable order.  How do you quickly find the one you want?  How do you remember where it is?  Should I really have to flick through multiple pages to find the ones I want?  What if I don't want them arranged in a grid?  Part of the value of placing icons on the desktop involves the ability to choose the location for the icon.
    5. This is 2011, do we really need to go back to the rectangular icons of the late 1980's?  If all the icons have the same shape, then it becomes much harder to quickly distinguish one icon from another; we have to READ the contents of the tile in order to know what it is.  This is fine for a small device, such as a phone, but a disaster for systems with lots of programs installed

     -Brian

     


    Azius Developer Training www.azius.com Windows device driver, internals, security, & forensics training and consulting.
    Thursday, November 03, 2011 8:29 PM
  • The article is missing a few more important points:

    1. Windows 8 Metro doesn't have any windows anymore.  One of the fundamental concepts behind windows (little 'w') is the ability to have overlapping windows.  Metro doesn't allow that
    2. Metro does not have a story for multiple monitors
    3. A big part of Metro relies on the Zune interface, where scrolling is king.  This does not scale well, and worked very poorly on the Zune (every try scrolling through 1000 songs to get to the songs that start with 'W'?; at least Apple allows for a way to jump to any letter in the alphabet on the iPhone/iPod)
    4. MS claims that a big part of Metro is based upon the fact that users click on desktop icons rather more than using the Start menu.  That may be true (but, not for me), but I think they're missing the key insight that the user is choosing the icons to place on the desktop from the pool of - potentially hundreds - of icons on the Start menu. Try installing a lot of non-Metro software on Win8.  Your desktop now has maybe hundreds of tiles, in no discernable order.  How do you quickly find the one you want?  How do you remember where it is?  Should I really have to flick through multiple pages to find the ones I want?  What if I don't want them arranged in a grid?  Part of the value of placing icons on the desktop involves the ability to choose the location for the icon.
    5. This is 2011, do we really need to go back to the rectangular icons of the late 1980's?  If all the icons have the same shape, then it becomes much harder to quickly distinguish one icon from another; we have to READ the contents of the tile in order to know what it is.  This is fine for a small device, such as a phone, but a disaster for systems with lots of programs installed

     -Brian

     


    Azius Developer Training www.azius.com Windows device driver, internals, security, & forensics training and consulting.


    Thank you for your informative post.  Windows 8 is a tablet/pad/touchscreen OS.   Is Windows 8 is not a viable keyboard/mouse/monitor OS?  Again, not even Apple has scrapped the MAC OS on the desktop for iOS.  Microsoft is making a huge mistake here trying to foist a crippled, dumbed down OS on desktop PC and laptop users.

    Friday, November 04, 2011 3:42 PM
  • there is a very simple registry edit, that allows you to run both - just google!


    If you're talking about the below registry key, you are wrong.  It completely removes Metro and you do not get both.

    HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer

    change value of RPEnabled from "1" to "0"


    From what I understand, removing metro doesnt leave a windows 7-like or mac OS-like desktop experience.   What it gives you is the Windows 8 desktop with all of its cripped functionality and glaring omissions.

    I think that it is safe to say that if you have to edit the registry to "fix" windows, maybe you should take a look at windows itself.


    You do actually get a Windows 7 style Start Menu in the Desktop after making this change.  Basically it boots directly to the Desktop interface with a Start Menu and Metro no longer exists.

     


    I do not want to get rid of metro.  I like metro.  I just dont want to use metro as my primary desktop UI.  
    Friday, November 04, 2011 5:01 PM
  • I do not want to get rid of metro.  I like metro.  I just dont want to use metro as my primary desktop UI.  
    I agree.  We shouldn't have to hack Windows 8 to get the functionality back that we want and need.  And we should be able to choose if we boot into the Desktop or Metro interface.  I don't get how making Windows 8 more functional and appealing to a wider audience is a bad thing, but I'm kind of funny that way I guess.
    Friday, November 04, 2011 6:19 PM
  • Lol, really Wayne.blackmon? Are you currently using Win 8 Preview? I don't think you even have a clue of what you are talking about. It looks to me that your whole opinion of Win 8 Preview is just based on an article. After all, this is just a preview  for developers and not even beta. You might want to try to install Win 8 Preview and use it for awhile. Better yet, why don't you wait for the beta?

     

    Saturday, November 05, 2011 4:51 PM
  • can't agree more. i use the dev preview on my asus ep121 and both of my dev machines where i write code using multiple instances of VS2010 on the one and the preview of VS2011 on the other. which has 3 monitors attached and everything works fine. ever since Windows 7 i was not using the startmenu much anyhow, pin to taskbar is much more productive for me.

     

    love Metro on the slate and do not miss the startmenu either.

     

    my 2cents

    m

    Thursday, November 17, 2011 10:10 PM