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ramblings of an old sinclair spectum programmer.... (kj) - 1/22/2008 4:22 PM PST RRS feed

  • General discussion

  • By: kj


    Okay, here the scenario
    You are a web designer working on your own..what tools will you use.???
    Please guys see if you see what if this is you and if you agree pls post me 
    after you rear my ramblings. Okay, so you maybe a newbie or an oldie, a coder 
    or a designer, but if you are just a single person then you be all these and 
    more.
    I have to take the photo, make the video, write the copy, design the site, 
    (sing the theme tune, and write the theme tune....lol...little Brittan fans) 
    but you know what I mean.
    So I use to use FP2000 and flash and I did get FP2003 but didn’t really get 
    the css thing until very late, I hate love the idea of page templates but 
    hate using them. I find it easier to copy a page and paste it, change the 
    code a little and go on. But I have done both. Only I think a templated site 
    tends to look ...well template (yes I know you can use more than one, but try 
    doing this, along with a few different css style sheets and i think you will 
    find thinks go haywire)
    Anyway, I moved onto DW8 (adobe) and find this set of tools good but not the 
    quickest, I see the adobe is trying out their AIR and Spry stuff, but again 
    this will require the end user to download a player or plug-in..Now okay 99% 
    of people visiting the various sites I manage have flash but there is a rise 
    in Firefox users and so I feel that we are going back to the days when I had 
    to write a basic htnl, a flash, and then later a high bandwidth version of 
    the same site.
     Roll on Silverlight and WPF
    So I started looking at this back in August. I must admit all the samples I 
    downloaded and tried modding failed in one way or the other. I have since 
    returned and downloaded the December blend and hey presto I am staring to get 
    results.
    But here comes the but...
    During those 5 months I have needed to learn visual studio 8, spend a day or 
    two not getting popfly to be of any use, need to learn xml,xaml.  And loads 
    of other things so okay all the answers are here or on msdn blogs but is it 
    just me or is the whole thing confusing..
    Why did nobody think of Export to html/xbap direct without having to import 
    to VS
    Why there is no easy set of preconfiged close min max buttons and code
    The whole thing seems great to make a one page app but gets mess when you 
    try two
    I make one the startup page to shrink on mouse click to reveal page2.xaml
    It sort of worked, when I added more I lost the functionality of it.
    I used a different 3dxaml program and this was able to split out fantastic 
    spinning text and objects in a couple of min (no training) you see this is 
    what annoys me about expression products and adobe is that a crappy program 
    can do so much instantly and you get a result that is impressive in min, 
    without a blog, manual, video, lab or training.
    In this world where we are trying to get business, there are to many in 
    browser apps on blog sites and other places including  office that allow 
    people to make great looking pages with photo and video and rss feeds on 
    their page in a matter of seconds.
    Yet for me to try and do the same using either your tools or them from Adobe 
    would take days/weeks
    I use to use a program called swishmax for doing flash; I could do a whole 
    site in 21 hours including around 8 beta versions. You see what I think we 
    need is the silverlight to be buzzed into IE7 as an update, and the .net 
    packs in to xp. This will increase the visibility of any site written in 
    these new codes.
    Then we need a program “Expression Builder” that would drag and drop allow 
    one to add all the stand alone apps into a manageable website and apply 
    navigation and buttons and check feeds, also produce feeds for feed burner 
    and produce sitemaps.xml for Google and yahoo and put buttons for linking to 
    live fav, etc....like a final assembly block.
    This is in no way meant to take away from the great work the TEAM is doing 
    its just my general comment form an end user point of view.
    P,s I just got a trust not granted message, so i suppose i need to go off 
    and read another few blogs to see what I have done wrong this time
    
    
    Friday, February 22, 2008 4:29 PM

All replies

  • By: clintonG


    Gees, all that ruminating and what you finally get around to suggesting
    would really be helpful has already been developed and continues to be a
    work in progress. Microsoft calls it PopFly.

    "kj" <kj@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    news:6D7489EE-726D-4EFD-8A13-4F9E12CA2798@microsoft.com...
    > Okay, here the scenario
    > You are a web designer working on your own..what tools will you use.???
    > Please guys see if you see what if this is you and if you agree pls post
    > me
    > after you rear my ramblings. Okay, so you maybe a newbie or an oldie, a
    > coder
    > or a designer, but if you are just a single person then you be all these
    > and
    > more.
    > I have to take the photo, make the video, write the copy, design the site,
    > (sing the theme tune, and write the theme tune....lol...little Brittan
    > fans)
    > but you know what I mean.
    > So I use to use FP2000 and flash and I did get FP2003 but didn’t really
    > get
    > the css thing until very late, I hate love the idea of page templates but
    > hate using them. I find it easier to copy a page and paste it, change the
    > code a little and go on. But I have done both. Only I think a templated
    > site
    > tends to look ...well template (yes I know you can use more than one, but
    > try
    > doing this, along with a few different css style sheets and i think you
    > will
    > find thinks go haywire)
    > Anyway, I moved onto DW8 (adobe) and find this set of tools good but not
    > the
    > quickest, I see the adobe is trying out their AIR and Spry stuff, but
    > again
    > this will require the end user to download a player or plug-in..Now okay
    > 99%
    > of people visiting the various sites I manage have flash but there is a
    > rise
    > in Firefox users and so I feel that we are going back to the days when I
    > had
    > to write a basic htnl, a flash, and then later a high bandwidth version of
    > the same site.
    > Roll on Silverlight and WPF
    > So I started looking at this back in August. I must admit all the samples
    > I
    > downloaded and tried modding failed in one way or the other. I have since
    > returned and downloaded the December blend and hey presto I am staring to
    > get
    > results.
    > But here comes the but...
    > During those 5 months I have needed to learn visual studio 8, spend a day
    > or
    > two not getting popfly to be of any use, need to learn xml,xaml. And
    > loads
    > of other things so okay all the answers are here or on msdn blogs but is
    > it
    > just me or is the whole thing confusing..
    > Why did nobody think of Export to html/xbap direct without having to
    > import
    > to VS
    > Why there is no easy set of preconfiged close min max buttons and code
    > The whole thing seems great to make a one page app but gets mess when you
    > try two
    > I make one the startup page to shrink on mouse click to reveal page2.xaml
    > It sort of worked, when I added more I lost the functionality of it.
    > I used a different 3dxaml program and this was able to split out fantastic
    > spinning text and objects in a couple of min (no training) you see this is
    > what annoys me about expression products and adobe is that a crappy
    > program
    > can do so much instantly and you get a result that is impressive in min,
    > without a blog, manual, video, lab or training.
    > In this world where we are trying to get business, there are to many in
    > browser apps on blog sites and other places including office that allow
    > people to make great looking pages with photo and video and rss feeds on
    > their page in a matter of seconds.
    > Yet for me to try and do the same using either your tools or them from
    > Adobe
    > would take days/weeks
    > I use to use a program called swishmax for doing flash; I could do a whole
    > site in 21 hours including around 8 beta versions. You see what I think we
    > need is the silverlight to be buzzed into IE7 as an update, and the .net
    > packs in to xp. This will increase the visibility of any site written in
    > these new codes.
    > Then we need a program “Expression Builder” that would drag and drop allow
    > one to add all the stand alone apps into a manageable website and apply
    > navigation and buttons and check feeds, also produce feeds for feed burner
    > and produce sitemaps.xml for Google and yahoo and put buttons for linking
    > to
    > live fav, etc....like a final assembly block.
    > This is in no way meant to take away from the great work the TEAM is doing
    > its just my general comment form an end user point of view.
    > P,s I just got a trust not granted message, so i suppose i need to go off
    > and read another few blogs to see what I have done wrong this time
    >
    >
    Monday, February 25, 2008 4:52 PM
  • By: kj


    sorry but i was a bit heaved off as i finally got an expression project to 
    produce a xbap that didnt crash, and now get the sercurity warning when i 
    deploy it..
    
    Yes i have used POPFLY but yet again when you try and mod it to your own rss 
    or atom xml feeds it dont work fully. its a real alpha rather than beta app 
    at present
    
    
    "clintonG" wrote:
    
    > Gees, all that ruminating and what you finally get around to suggesting 
    > would really be helpful has already been developed and continues to be a 
    > work in progress. Microsoft calls it PopFly.
    > 
    > "kj" <kj@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
    > news:6D7489EE-726D-4EFD-8A13-4F9E12CA2798@microsoft.com...
    > > Okay, here the scenario
    > > You are a web designer working on your own..what tools will you use.???
    > > Please guys see if you see what if this is you and if you agree pls post 
    > > me
    > > after you rear my ramblings. Okay, so you maybe a newbie or an oldie, a 
    > > coder
    > > or a designer, but if you are just a single person then you be all these 
    > > and
    > > more.
    > > I have to take the photo, make the video, write the copy, design the site,
    > > (sing the theme tune, and write the theme tune....lol...little Brittan 
    > > fans)
    > > but you know what I mean.
    > > So I use to use FP2000 and flash and I did get FP2003 but didn’t really 
    > > get
    > > the css thing until very late, I hate love the idea of page templates but
    > > hate using them. I find it easier to copy a page and paste it, change the
    > > code a little and go on. But I have done both. Only I think a templated 
    > > site
    > > tends to look ...well template (yes I know you can use more than one, but 
    > > try
    > > doing this, along with a few different css style sheets and i think you 
    > > will
    > > find thinks go haywire)
    > > Anyway, I moved onto DW8 (adobe) and find this set of tools good but not 
    > > the
    > > quickest, I see the adobe is trying out their AIR and Spry stuff, but 
    > > again
    > > this will require the end user to download a player or plug-in..Now okay 
    > > 99%
    > > of people visiting the various sites I manage have flash but there is a 
    > > rise
    > > in Firefox users and so I feel that we are going back to the days when I 
    > > had
    > > to write a basic htnl, a flash, and then later a high bandwidth version of
    > > the same site.
    > > Roll on Silverlight and WPF
    > > So I started looking at this back in August. I must admit all the samples 
    > > I
    > > downloaded and tried modding failed in one way or the other. I have since
    > > returned and downloaded the December blend and hey presto I am staring to 
    > > get
    > > results.
    > > But here comes the but...
    > > During those 5 months I have needed to learn visual studio 8, spend a day 
    > > or
    > > two not getting popfly to be of any use, need to learn xml,xaml.  And 
    > > loads
    > > of other things so okay all the answers are here or on msdn blogs but is 
    > > it
    > > just me or is the whole thing confusing..
    > > Why did nobody think of Export to html/xbap direct without having to 
    > > import
    > > to VS
    > > Why there is no easy set of preconfiged close min max buttons and code
    > > The whole thing seems great to make a one page app but gets mess when you
    > > try two
    > > I make one the startup page to shrink on mouse click to reveal page2.xaml
    > > It sort of worked, when I added more I lost the functionality of it.
    > > I used a different 3dxaml program and this was able to split out fantastic
    > > spinning text and objects in a couple of min (no training) you see this is
    > > what annoys me about expression products and adobe is that a crappy 
    > > program
    > > can do so much instantly and you get a result that is impressive in min,
    > > without a blog, manual, video, lab or training.
    > > In this world where we are trying to get business, there are to many in
    > > browser apps on blog sites and other places including  office that allow
    > > people to make great looking pages with photo and video and rss feeds on
    > > their page in a matter of seconds.
    > > Yet for me to try and do the same using either your tools or them from 
    > > Adobe
    > > would take days/weeks
    > > I use to use a program called swishmax for doing flash; I could do a whole
    > > site in 21 hours including around 8 beta versions. You see what I think we
    > > need is the silverlight to be buzzed into IE7 as an update, and the .net
    > > packs in to xp. This will increase the visibility of any site written in
    > > these new codes.
    > > Then we need a program “Expression Builder” that would drag and drop allow
    > > one to add all the stand alone apps into a manageable website and apply
    > > navigation and buttons and check feeds, also produce feeds for feed burner
    > > and produce sitemaps.xml for Google and yahoo and put buttons for linking 
    > > to
    > > live fav, etc....like a final assembly block.
    > > This is in no way meant to take away from the great work the TEAM is doing
    > > its just my general comment form an end user point of view.
    > > P,s I just got a trust not granted message, so i suppose i need to go off
    > > and read another few blogs to see what I have done wrong this time
    > >
    > > 
    > 
    > 
    Monday, February 25, 2008 4:53 PM
  • By: clintonG


    I hope I didn't imply too much because you and I are on the same page but I
    still think the "notion" of PopFly is where its all headed.


    "kj" <kj@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    news:2161D624-A710-41C0-A15D-E3CF9FDE1C2C@microsoft.com...
    > sorry but i was a bit heaved off as i finally got an expression project to
    > produce a xbap that didnt crash, and now get the sercurity warning when i
    > deploy it..
    >
    > Yes i have used POPFLY but yet again when you try and mod it to your own
    > rss
    > or atom xml feeds it dont work fully. its a real alpha rather than beta
    > app
    > at present
    >
    >
    > "clintonG" wrote:
    >
    >> Gees, all that ruminating and what you finally get around to suggesting
    >> would really be helpful has already been developed and continues to be a
    >> work in progress. Microsoft calls it PopFly.
    >>
    >> "kj" <kj@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    >> news:6D7489EE-726D-4EFD-8A13-4F9E12CA2798@microsoft.com...
    >> > Okay, here the scenario
    >> > You are a web designer working on your own..what tools will you use.???
    >> > Please guys see if you see what if this is you and if you agree pls
    >> > post
    >> > me
    >> > after you rear my ramblings. Okay, so you maybe a newbie or an oldie, a
    >> > coder
    >> > or a designer, but if you are just a single person then you be all
    >> > these
    >> > and
    >> > more.
    >> > I have to take the photo, make the video, write the copy, design the
    >> > site,
    >> > (sing the theme tune, and write the theme tune....lol...little Brittan
    >> > fans)
    >> > but you know what I mean.
    >> > So I use to use FP2000 and flash and I did get FP2003 but didn’t really
    >> > get
    >> > the css thing until very late, I hate love the idea of page templates
    >> > but
    >> > hate using them. I find it easier to copy a page and paste it, change
    >> > the
    >> > code a little and go on. But I have done both. Only I think a templated
    >> > site
    >> > tends to look ...well template (yes I know you can use more than one,
    >> > but
    >> > try
    >> > doing this, along with a few different css style sheets and i think you
    >> > will
    >> > find thinks go haywire)
    >> > Anyway, I moved onto DW8 (adobe) and find this set of tools good but
    >> > not
    >> > the
    >> > quickest, I see the adobe is trying out their AIR and Spry stuff, but
    >> > again
    >> > this will require the end user to download a player or plug-in..Now
    >> > okay
    >> > 99%
    >> > of people visiting the various sites I manage have flash but there is a
    >> > rise
    >> > in Firefox users and so I feel that we are going back to the days when
    >> > I
    >> > had
    >> > to write a basic htnl, a flash, and then later a high bandwidth version
    >> > of
    >> > the same site.
    >> > Roll on Silverlight and WPF
    >> > So I started looking at this back in August. I must admit all the
    >> > samples
    >> > I
    >> > downloaded and tried modding failed in one way or the other. I have
    >> > since
    >> > returned and downloaded the December blend and hey presto I am staring
    >> > to
    >> > get
    >> > results.
    >> > But here comes the but...
    >> > During those 5 months I have needed to learn visual studio 8, spend a
    >> > day
    >> > or
    >> > two not getting popfly to be of any use, need to learn xml,xaml. And
    >> > loads
    >> > of other things so okay all the answers are here or on msdn blogs but
    >> > is
    >> > it
    >> > just me or is the whole thing confusing..
    >> > Why did nobody think of Export to html/xbap direct without having to
    >> > import
    >> > to VS
    >> > Why there is no easy set of preconfiged close min max buttons and code
    >> > The whole thing seems great to make a one page app but gets mess when
    >> > you
    >> > try two
    >> > I make one the startup page to shrink on mouse click to reveal
    >> > page2.xaml
    >> > It sort of worked, when I added more I lost the functionality of it.
    >> > I used a different 3dxaml program and this was able to split out
    >> > fantastic
    >> > spinning text and objects in a couple of min (no training) you see this
    >> > is
    >> > what annoys me about expression products and adobe is that a crappy
    >> > program
    >> > can do so much instantly and you get a result that is impressive in
    >> > min,
    >> > without a blog, manual, video, lab or training.
    >> > In this world where we are trying to get business, there are to many in
    >> > browser apps on blog sites and other places including office that
    >> > allow
    >> > people to make great looking pages with photo and video and rss feeds
    >> > on
    >> > their page in a matter of seconds.
    >> > Yet for me to try and do the same using either your tools or them from
    >> > Adobe
    >> > would take days/weeks
    >> > I use to use a program called swishmax for doing flash; I could do a
    >> > whole
    >> > site in 21 hours including around 8 beta versions. You see what I think
    >> > we
    >> > need is the silverlight to be buzzed into IE7 as an update, and the
    >> > .net
    >> > packs in to xp. This will increase the visibility of any site written
    >> > in
    >> > these new codes.
    >> > Then we need a program “Expression Builder” that would drag and drop
    >> > allow
    >> > one to add all the stand alone apps into a manageable website and apply
    >> > navigation and buttons and check feeds, also produce feeds for feed
    >> > burner
    >> > and produce sitemaps.xml for Google and yahoo and put buttons for
    >> > linking
    >> > to
    >> > live fav, etc....like a final assembly block.
    >> > This is in no way meant to take away from the great work the TEAM is
    >> > doing
    >> > its just my general comment form an end user point of view.
    >> > P,s I just got a trust not granted message, so i suppose i need to go
    >> > off
    >> > and read another few blogs to see what I have done wrong this time
    >> >
    >> >
    >>
    >>
    Monday, February 25, 2008 4:54 PM
  • By: kj


    you just dont want to know what has happened in the last week...but surfice 
    to say that i installed visual studio 2008 rtm,
    
    And my vista is brand new as well
    ( i can not write it here but you would cringe..lol)
    diguct   at   hotmail      drop me a line
    
    
    
    "clintonG" wrote:
    
    > I hope I didn't imply too much because you and I are on the same page but I 
    > still think the "notion" of PopFly is where its all headed.
    > 
    > 
    > "kj" <kj@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
    > news:2161D624-A710-41C0-A15D-E3CF9FDE1C2C@microsoft.com...
    > > sorry but i was a bit heaved off as i finally got an expression project to
    > > produce a xbap that didnt crash, and now get the sercurity warning when i
    > > deploy it..
    > >
    > > Yes i have used POPFLY but yet again when you try and mod it to your own 
    > > rss
    > > or atom xml feeds it dont work fully. its a real alpha rather than beta 
    > > app
    > > at present
    > >
    > >
    > > "clintonG" wrote:
    > >
    > >> Gees, all that ruminating and what you finally get around to suggesting
    > >> would really be helpful has already been developed and continues to be a
    > >> work in progress. Microsoft calls it PopFly.
    > >>
    > >> "kj" <kj@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    > >> news:6D7489EE-726D-4EFD-8A13-4F9E12CA2798@microsoft.com...
    > >> > Okay, here the scenario
    > >> > You are a web designer working on your own..what tools will you use.???
    > >> > Please guys see if you see what if this is you and if you agree pls 
    > >> > post
    > >> > me
    > >> > after you rear my ramblings. Okay, so you maybe a newbie or an oldie, a
    > >> > coder
    > >> > or a designer, but if you are just a single person then you be all 
    > >> > these
    > >> > and
    > >> > more.
    > >> > I have to take the photo, make the video, write the copy, design the 
    > >> > site,
    > >> > (sing the theme tune, and write the theme tune....lol...little Brittan
    > >> > fans)
    > >> > but you know what I mean.
    > >> > So I use to use FP2000 and flash and I did get FP2003 but didn’t really
    > >> > get
    > >> > the css thing until very late, I hate love the idea of page templates 
    > >> > but
    > >> > hate using them. I find it easier to copy a page and paste it, change 
    > >> > the
    > >> > code a little and go on. But I have done both. Only I think a templated
    > >> > site
    > >> > tends to look ...well template (yes I know you can use more than one, 
    > >> > but
    > >> > try
    > >> > doing this, along with a few different css style sheets and i think you
    > >> > will
    > >> > find thinks go haywire)
    > >> > Anyway, I moved onto DW8 (adobe) and find this set of tools good but 
    > >> > not
    > >> > the
    > >> > quickest, I see the adobe is trying out their AIR and Spry stuff, but
    > >> > again
    > >> > this will require the end user to download a player or plug-in..Now 
    > >> > okay
    > >> > 99%
    > >> > of people visiting the various sites I manage have flash but there is a
    > >> > rise
    > >> > in Firefox users and so I feel that we are going back to the days when 
    > >> > I
    > >> > had
    > >> > to write a basic htnl, a flash, and then later a high bandwidth version 
    > >> > of
    > >> > the same site.
    > >> > Roll on Silverlight and WPF
    > >> > So I started looking at this back in August. I must admit all the 
    > >> > samples
    > >> > I
    > >> > downloaded and tried modding failed in one way or the other. I have 
    > >> > since
    > >> > returned and downloaded the December blend and hey presto I am staring 
    > >> > to
    > >> > get
    > >> > results.
    > >> > But here comes the but...
    > >> > During those 5 months I have needed to learn visual studio 8, spend a 
    > >> > day
    > >> > or
    > >> > two not getting popfly to be of any use, need to learn xml,xaml.  And
    > >> > loads
    > >> > of other things so okay all the answers are here or on msdn blogs but 
    > >> > is
    > >> > it
    > >> > just me or is the whole thing confusing..
    > >> > Why did nobody think of Export to html/xbap direct without having to
    > >> > import
    > >> > to VS
    > >> > Why there is no easy set of preconfiged close min max buttons and code
    > >> > The whole thing seems great to make a one page app but gets mess when 
    > >> > you
    > >> > try two
    > >> > I make one the startup page to shrink on mouse click to reveal 
    > >> > page2.xaml
    > >> > It sort of worked, when I added more I lost the functionality of it.
    > >> > I used a different 3dxaml program and this was able to split out 
    > >> > fantastic
    > >> > spinning text and objects in a couple of min (no training) you see this 
    > >> > is
    > >> > what annoys me about expression products and adobe is that a crappy
    > >> > program
    > >> > can do so much instantly and you get a result that is impressive in 
    > >> > min,
    > >> > without a blog, manual, video, lab or training.
    > >> > In this world where we are trying to get business, there are to many in
    > >> > browser apps on blog sites and other places including  office that 
    > >> > allow
    > >> > people to make great looking pages with photo and video and rss feeds 
    > >> > on
    > >> > their page in a matter of seconds.
    > >> > Yet for me to try and do the same using either your tools or them from
    > >> > Adobe
    > >> > would take days/weeks
    > >> > I use to use a program called swishmax for doing flash; I could do a 
    > >> > whole
    > >> > site in 21 hours including around 8 beta versions. You see what I think 
    > >> > we
    > >> > need is the silverlight to be buzzed into IE7 as an update, and the 
    > >> > .net
    > >> > packs in to xp. This will increase the visibility of any site written 
    > >> > in
    > >> > these new codes.
    > >> > Then we need a program “Expression Builder” that would drag and drop 
    > >> > allow
    > >> > one to add all the stand alone apps into a manageable website and apply
    > >> > navigation and buttons and check feeds, also produce feeds for feed 
    > >> > burner
    > >> > and produce sitemaps.xml for Google and yahoo and put buttons for 
    > >> > linking
    > >> > to
    > >> > live fav, etc....like a final assembly block.
    > >> > This is in no way meant to take away from the great work the TEAM is 
    > >> > doing
    > >> > its just my general comment form an end user point of view.
    > >> > P,s I just got a trust not granted message, so i suppose i need to go 
    > >> > off
    > >> > and read another few blogs to see what I have done wrong this time
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >>
    > >> 
    > 
    > 
    Monday, February 25, 2008 4:56 PM