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A smaller Kinect Runtime executable needed RRS feed

  • Question

  • Hi,

    We're working on a browser plugin that will interact with Kinect. We want the user only install the plugin without more extra steps.

    We want to use Microsoft's own drivers for Kinect (and not OpenNI etc.)

    but currently the minimum amount of executable is just huge.

    (http://download.microsoft.com/download/E/E/2/EE2D29A1-2D5C-463C-B7F1-40E4170F5E2C/KinectRuntime-v1.0-Setup.exe) 110 MB

    The SDK is even larger.

    Can you make an installer that installs only the driver and libraries required to read frames? I don't think that has to be 110MB and

    is one of the roadblocks for making lots of people use it, it would increase the usage for potential shipped software using Kinect if one needs to download only a few MB's of an executable as a Kinect driver and ready to go.

    Thanks.

    Wednesday, February 15, 2012 3:48 PM

All replies

  • so, if I understood right, do you want to use kinect only as a Camera?

    Wednesday, February 15, 2012 4:20 PM
  • Well you could install the drivers yourself but the runtime installs needed libraries which allow you to use all the functionality of kinect. Even camera driver software is around 50 - 75MB software usually but not always especially HD which would be at least 50MB but can get above 100mb at times from my usage of expression studio for screen capture and live camera feeds which that component is 100 mb and thats normal for HD quality.

    OP im trying to look for the instructions on silent kinect installs because i typically install certain components of a program without the whole thing using silent install and you could just install kinect drivers this way and then use scotts directx filter for rgb view if thats all you want. But i would personally just install the full runtime and figure out where it puts drivers for installation and lookup an msdn article on device driver installation using inf files which is your only only hope if you know how or the correct articles to look up and if you want more then rgb video feature then you need full kinect runtime installed.


    Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. - "Sherlock holmes" "speak softly and carry a big stick" - theodore roosevelt. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering - Yoda



    • Edited by The Thinker Wednesday, February 15, 2012 6:38 PM
    Wednesday, February 15, 2012 6:37 PM
  • The runtime installer is the smallest install package we have right now.
    Wednesday, February 15, 2012 8:01 PM
  • Well you could install the drivers yourself but the runtime installs needed libraries which allow you to use all the functionality of kinect. Even camera driver software is around 50 - 75MB software usually but not always especially HD which would be at least 50MB but can get above 100mb at times from my usage of expression studio for screen capture and live camera feeds which that component is 100 mb and thats normal for HD quality.

    OP im trying to look for the instructions on silent kinect installs because i typically install certain components of a program without the whole thing using silent install and you could just install kinect drivers this way and then use scotts directx filter for rgb view if thats all you want. But i would personally just install the full runtime and figure out where it puts drivers for installation and lookup an msdn article on device driver installation using inf files which is your only only hope if you know how or the correct articles to look up and if you want more then rgb video feature then you need full kinect runtime installed.


    Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. - "Sherlock holmes" "speak softly and carry a big stick" - theodore roosevelt. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering - Yoda




    There is no "driver only" install package, and there are no "silent" options as we require acceptance of the EULA.
    Thursday, February 16, 2012 3:34 AM
  • Yes, I  want to get only the frames and make users download the absolute minimum required to do that.

    Say that I'm making an application that builds a 3D map of the world as the user moves the camera. I have my own software to do this, but that software should not be 110MB more just to get frames over the USB.

    Sure I can try to hack my way into installing the driver myself or adding more steps to installation, but I shouldn't be. 

    The Kinect experience should just be as smooth as possible both for users and developpers. I thought the MS team can throw together a simple thing such as this with ease.

    Does that make sense? Can we get someone from the MS team to reply? I think it's badly needed.



    • Edited by catacuta Thursday, February 16, 2012 9:27 AM
    Thursday, February 16, 2012 9:25 AM
  • so, if I understood right, do you want to use kinect only as a Camera?

    Exactly, I want to do my own processing and I think this will only get more of a problem as people come up with new ideas to use the device. It should not suddenly requiring 110MB of download and install time just to do this. 
    • Edited by catacuta Thursday, February 16, 2012 9:26 AM
    Thursday, February 16, 2012 9:26 AM
  • If they had a driver only install that filter i talked about would only give you rbg and maybe depth feed but not skeleton data or depth data because its just a camera feed so if you want more then just a camera 110 mb is plenty with windows 7 machines. But i agree that for just camera mode for kinect their should be seperate installer but for full package 110mb's is small for runtime because its packing a lot of things into it.

    Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. - "Sherlock holmes" "speak softly and carry a big stick" - theodore roosevelt. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering - Yoda

    Thursday, February 16, 2012 1:06 PM
  • Does that make sense? Can we get someone from the MS team to reply? I think it's badly needed

    Someone from the Kinect for Windows team, Todd Ferkingstad, has already replied, above.

    I think you should consider the size of the Kinect runtime in context. 110MB is really not that much. On a broadband connection it will take a few minutes at most. Compare the size of the Kinect runtime and all the features you get to the size of a standard Logitech webcam installer:

    http://www.logitech.com/en-us/435/7079?section=downloads&bit=&osid=14

    The full installer is 139 MB! Now granted there is a smart installer at 7 MB that is basically a download manager for the 20 MB driver package and the 154 MB webcam software package, plus other optional components that add even more.

    Comparison #2:

    Microsoft LifeCam HD-3000 driver & software installer is a 20 MB download, but that also is just a shell setup program that downloads additional software during the installation process.

    http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/d/lifecam-hd-3000

    Finally, you must also consider that the Kinect Runtime chain installs the Speech Runtime x86 and x64 versions. You might say "oh I don't want that for my application" but if you consider that request, you're asking for an end-user installation experience that is fragmented. Suppose you install a partial version of the Kinect Runtime that only has minimal camera support. The user thinks they have the Kinect drivers installed and they get another application but then are alerted they need to download the full version of the Runtime! That's not very seamless. In addition for this scenario to work, the SDK would have to be modified to let developers query a minimal core runtime to see what is actually installed, and developers would have to actually have to check that and alert the user about the installation required. That would be a huge mess.

    Overall it's much better to have one runtime installer that has all the features and then the users don't need to worry about it later.


    -- Joshua Blake
    Microsoft Surface MVP
    OpenKinect Community Founder
    Technical Director, InfoStrat Advanced Technology Group
    Blog: http://nui.joshland.org
    Twitter: http://twitter.com/joshblake
    Natural User Interfaces in .NET Book: http://manning.com/blake

    Thursday, February 16, 2012 6:43 PM
  • Joshua,

    Thanks a lot for explaining the reasoning behind it, I understand it better now. I agree from an overall user experience point of view it would be much better to have one installation. I'll just link to this 110MB Runtime executable.

    One thing though: Will this come pre-installed on Win 8? Or event an automatic update to Win 7? As you said 110MB is not much 

    and if Microsoft sees "Kinectified" computers in the future it makes sense to do that. 

    Friday, February 17, 2012 8:56 AM
  • IMO if someone buyed a Kinect For Windows will surely install the Runtime before using your application, unless you are selling bundles with kinect and your application.

    So maybe you can just disconsidere your doubts and assume that if your users have the kinect, they will have at least the runtime installed. You could also, as you said, just leave a link out there to the runtime download...

    Friday, February 17, 2012 9:28 AM
  • Zune came has come as an update in some countries through windows update (probably mostly U.S.) so I would recommend that kinect runtime be able to be installed through windows update automatically in the future because people will most likely use future versions of kinect a lot. Anyone agree with me post this as helpful.  I would recommend this be possible in future or included with windows to avoid downloading in the future.

    Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. - "Sherlock holmes" "speak softly and carry a big stick" - theodore roosevelt. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering - Yoda




    • Edited by The Thinker Sunday, February 19, 2012 7:49 PM
    Sunday, February 19, 2012 7:47 PM