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USA Today: New Start Menu is "virtually useless"

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  • Mainstream press has less collective common-sense than my left toe.

    Again, we have to make the point that this is pre-beta. It does not represent the finished product.

    Friday, September 30, 2011 3:58 PM
  • On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 15:58:04 +0000, HonestFlames wrote:

    Mainstream press has less collective common-sense than my left toe.

    Again, we have to make the point that this is pre-beta. It does not represent the finished product.

    And the article in question, regardless of the single quote pulled out of
    it, is largely positive.

    Additionally, for every negative article, I can find a corresponding
    glowing review.


    Paul Adare
    MVP - Identity Lifecycle Manager
    http://www.identit.ca
    God is real, unless declared integer.

    Friday, September 30, 2011 4:02 PM
  • @HonestFlames: Unfortunately, Microsoft hasn't indicated whether they intend to fix the usability problems.  In fact, the inability to close apps was spun as a feature.  See this thread for more information.

    Again, what I would like to hear from Microsoft are two things:

    • We are aware of these issues.
    • We are working to resolve them.

    I've heard the first, but not the second.


    • Edited by I-DotNET Friday, September 30, 2011 4:15 PM Fixed typo (spelling).
    Friday, September 30, 2011 4:14 PM
  • @HonestFlames: Unfortunately, Microsoft hasn't indicated whether they intend to fix the usability problems.  In fact, the inability to close apps was spun as a feature.  See this thread for more information.


    I have an Android phone and on that I usually don't close application it Manages memory efficiently so it's not a new concept for me and I like the way it works on Windows 8 now.

    Microsoft MVP - Windows Expert (IT Pro)
    Friday, September 30, 2011 6:01 PM
  • Unfortunately, this leads to a couple problems.  
    First, task-swapping in Windows 8's Metro UI is cumbersome.  You don't get a list of opened apps like you do in iOS or WP7.  Instead, you swipe them into view one at a time.  So, if you have 20 apps open, that could take as many as 20 swipes. 
    Second, if Win8 Metro UI always closes an app when you navigate to another one, what do you do if you want that app to continue to run?  
    For example, let's say that you're listening to Pandora in IE Metro and you want to run another app.  How do you keep Pandora playing?
    See this thread.
    No one's going to buy an OS that doesn't let them listen to music.
    Friday, September 30, 2011 6:40 PM
  • This build is for developers to hammer out the API and compatibility issues. It is called "developer preview" for a reason. It does not make sense to delay the release for eye candies. Consumers don't have enough compatibly apps and hardware to begin with.

    Just search this forum for no audio/video/network problems to see what is the issue targeted by this developer preview. Is a computer without audio/video/network/antivirus more user friendly than a computer with a traditional start menu?



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    Friday, September 30, 2011 7:22 PM
  • Unfortunately, this leads to a couple problems.  
    First, task-swapping in Windows 8's Metro UI is cumbersome.  You don't get a list of opened apps like you do in iOS or WP7.  Instead, you swipe them into view one at a time.  So, if you have 20 apps open, that could take as many as 20 swipes. 
    Second, if Win8 Metro UI always closes an app when you navigate to another one, what do you do if you want that app to continue to run?  
    For example, let's say that you're listening to Pandora in IE Metro and you want to run another app.  How do you keep Pandora playing?
    See this thread.
    No one's going to buy an OS that doesn't let them listen to music.


    I admit the Metro interface isn't something I'm impressed with at all after using it, but it seems many others are which is a good thing for Microsoft.

    However, I would hope Microsoft isn't blowing off the concerns expressed here in this forum and will actually add the functionality to "close" a Metro app instead of suspending them if I want to.  I have an Android phone and hate that the apps don't close and hate it even more in Metro.  Just make it if you switch to a different Metro app it's gets supsended but give me an "X" somewhere that I can close the app.  This gives everyone what they want then.  (More options are better than fewer options!)

    It seems the Metro interface isn't designed, nor intended, to be used to multitask apps like you do now with all past versions of Windows.  It appears to me to just be a sort of "big ugly cell phone" interface.  I don't get this in a desktop operating system, but OK, for me this basically means that I hope the products I currently use will continue to offer 'non-Metro' versions of their apps to run in Desktop interface and that I also need to ensure I never purchase a device that uses the ARM processor so I'm not stuck running Metro only.  (Actually most likely I'll just run Windows 7 for the extended future and not worry about it.)

    I do agree with others that Windows 8 isn't nearly close to being finished so hopefully things will improve and they'll add things like a real Start Menu in the Desktop Interface and make it user selectable which interface to startup in, etc. and we'll all re-evaluate our opinions of Windows 8 later.

     

    Friday, September 30, 2011 7:49 PM
  • i think the problem is non developers and indeed some developers dont understand that this is a 'developer preview' 100% intended purely for developers to get to grips with and learn the new metro ui and develop apps for it and report on any bugs they come across.  the reason why the start menu button takes you back into metro instead of traditional program listings etc is because metro is the focus of this release which many people dont seem to understand.  a lot of people think its a beta and this is how windows 8 is going to look and function when its released and thats why people are writing negative reviews and complaining about the start menu but everything including the metro ui and start menu will change when the true beta comes out and then we can all see how it will look and function but until then this preview is not a true representation of how it will end up and is meant only for developers to learn and develop apps for metro so when the beta, rtm is released the store will have apps in it for people to download.

    its like baking a cake and the developer preview is the ingredients we have the ingredients placed infront of us so we have an idea of what it may taste like but we wont know for sure or be able to give an honest opinion until all the ingredients have been put together and baked and we get to taste it in its finished form.  Strawberry iceing on mine please x

    Saturday, October 01, 2011 11:21 AM
  • I watched Jensen Harris's 8 traits of great Metro style apps //build/ presentation. After the preamble he begins by comparing a Win32 app with Microsoft's vision for Metro apps. He states @5.00

    "So here is a typical Win32 based RSS reader. It's fairly simple in terms of the features it has. It's got the tree view on the left, it's got the list view. It's got some buttons to do things. And then look at that same experience reimagined as a Metro-style app. It's beautiful. It's less chrome. The focus is on the content. It's immersive."

    So what Harris is asking the audience to do, is look at the two apps side-by-side, and make a judgement about their comparative UIs, by looking at them. Judgment based on style and aesthetics, not usability, or even functionality. Apart from the fact that it begs the question as to why the developers of the Win32 RSS reader lumbered it with a supposedly ugly navigation tree and other useless bits of 'chrome' in the first place, it leaves me with a very uneasy feeling. What is Microsoft doing telling people what their opinion is on what's beautiful and what isn't? I thought beauty was in the eye of the beholder. Apparently this 'legacy' attitude shall now be replaced by a corporate definition of what is to be regarded as beautiful. Metro apps are beautiful, everything else is not. Microsoft said. I want to know who or what group inside Microsoft has persuaded the company to undergo the seemingly rapid change in emphasis? Surely there is more to it than just a fear of the iPad?

    So if beauty is the main selling point of Metro apps, what is being compromised to achieve this? No compromises! Yes, it's true. So true in fact that Microsoft had to make this their new slogan, rather than just letting the apps do the talking. Not very convincing. @6.05

    "And here is the template that you'll get, when you go to Visual Studio for the first time, and create a new app."

    I get it now - this is PowerPoint for apps.

     

    Saturday, October 01, 2011 12:56 PM
  • @Amy Gx: If this is simply a messaging problem on the part of Microsoft, they need to address it.  No developer wants to spend the next year of their lives writing Win8 Metro apps only for the platform to bomb commercially.  Just ask the developers who wrote apps for the HP TouchPad.
    Saturday, October 01, 2011 2:28 PM
  • Amy,

    The problem with that approach is that previous experience has shown us that once the first beta comes out, nothing substantial will be changed prior to RTM ("we're too far along in the release cycle at this point to develop and test those changes"). The only chance that we have to give any feedback on Windows 8 that actually has any chance of affecting the final release is right now. That's why so many people, including me, are being extremely vocal about the problems with Windows 8 as it is now. Yes, we may be talking about things that Microsoft is already planning on changing; but since they won't tell us what they are planning on changing, and by the time they do tell us, it will be too late, we have to speak up now.


    Moderator | MCTS .NET 2.0 Web Applications | My Blog: http://www.commongenius.com
    Monday, October 03, 2011 3:17 PM
  • @HonestFlames: Unfortunately, Microsoft hasn't indicated whether they intend to fix the usability problems.  In fact, the inability to close apps was spun as a feature.  See this thread for more information.


    I have an Android phone and on that I usually don't close application it Manages memory efficiently so it's not a new concept for me and I like the way it works on Windows 8 now.

    Microsoft MVP - Windows Expert (IT Pro)
    That is EXACTLY the point. My desktop PC is not a phone!
    Monday, October 03, 2011 6:17 PM