Where do I see the error logs? RRS feed

  • Question

  • I apologize for such a broad question, but I'm new and temporary to this.  A client has asked, for reasons passing understanding, my help to maintain his web site using Expressions -- and it's not my tool, so I'm having to fumble through it.


    The site has 44,000 files with 11,300 web pages.   When I open the site (ftp'd to my local hard drive) and enable the site management, it takes Expression over an hour to load the site and build the data base.  Hyperlinks report shows 10,980 pages use the "/templates/default.dwt" template - WHICH IS CORRECT.   Then, when I make even one small change to that template file, Expression takes ANOTHER hour to load the site - THEN tells me that 9982 pages use this template and need to be updated.  Nowhere does it me why the update process can't find the 998 files that the hyperlink report says DID contain the same template

    It then proceeds to take approximately 2 hours to process all 9982 file, finally telling me that 9,982 files were processed AND ZERO WERE UPDATED!!!!!


    So perhaps 4 hours of my life that I'll never get back ... and the program doesn't tell me WHY it didn't update them?  There MUST be a detailed error report, right?


    Also, why does it take so long to build a data base - then every time it has to do anything, it takes just that long again to do it?  It take sthe same lenght of time for Dreamweaver to process all 10,980 pages except that (A) it doesn't take an hour to load the site - AND - it actually does update the pages.

    and - yeah - I have two copies.  I'm not expecting Expressions to operate on files Dreamweaver has modified.


    Anyway .. is there a deep, deep configuration or .ini file that isn't properly set up?

    Friday, July 15, 2011 5:59 PM

All replies

  • It is, quite frankly, insane to use a DWT for that many pages, and I can't advise any way to make it faster.  Usually when not all the pages are updated, there has been some corruption of EW's data.  (BTW, is this an EW DWT, or a Dreamweaver DWT?  There can be differences.)

    Sure sounds like you should be using server-side includes for the common areas, not a design-side system like a DWT.

    Friday, July 15, 2011 6:15 PM
  • LOL - don't get me started on 'insane'   Not only is this a site that grew organically with no intention of organization OR oversite, but these tools that manufacturers build to "help" us seem to me to be more like electronic handcuffs.

    Hyperlinks reports the correct number of pages having the correct templates but Update sees a different number.  I wonder if those two programs know each other?  You'd think that the hour I waited while it built a data base would have been a SHARED data base?


    The dwt's are EW templates and have no doubt that "something" is corrupt.  But 9982 failures in 9982 pages?  um .. not likely.  Besides, if I call up any page and go to templates and 'update page' it updates that page just fine.


    my biggest issue is all this dead time.   an hour to load the site EACH TIME I open EW ... and yet every time it has to actually DO anything, it seems like it has to learn all over again?    It's like it was designed to sites with 12 pages or something.


    In any case, the problem is that "something" is wrong.  Some program has decided that "something" is wrong, but feels no need whatever to let me in on the secret.n    I've looked in every tab of every toolbar looking for the    fix_something_wrong  option and it just doesn't exist.


    Moreover, Dreamweaver takes just as long but actually DOES update the pages.   Why the client insists on EW is beyond me.


    That all said, you kind of answered my question.  If this had been a fixable deal, the answer would have been "Oh, yeah - we all run into that at first & here's the fix ... "

    I guess EW simply takes an hour to open a site.  {sigh}

    bang_head()  {



    Friday, July 15, 2011 6:55 PM
  • No, failure to update doesn't mean there are (necessarily) any errors in the pages not updated.  I was referrinng to EW's own data, where it keeps track of connections, being corrupted.

    You can try running FPCleaner for your version of EW (google - you'll find the link), and try rebuilding the hyperlinks and metadata, but with a site that large who knows if it will happen again.

    • Edited by KathyW2 Friday, July 15, 2011 7:25 PM
    Friday, July 15, 2011 7:03 PM
  • You may have missed Kathy's question in her first reply:

    Was the original site built with Dreamweaver? If so, the Dreamweaver DWT code may not be compatible with EW's.

    EW's system of managing DWTs uses the same code as Dreamweaver's very oldest DWTs. If the pages use the newer Dreamweaver DWTs, then EW won't update them, since the code doesn't match (yet EW still has to scan all 9982 files looking for the code it needs). That could be your problem.

    Look at the code that demarks the Editable Regions' start and end points. If it's different, they are invisible to EW and will never update. You could match them up by using Search & Replace to insert the correct EW codes.

    And as Kathy said, 10,000 DWT-based files is a recipe for frustration, whether EW or Dreamweaver. The DWT process was never envisioned to be used on that scale.


    It's not the heat; it's the stupidity.

    Friday, July 15, 2011 7:11 PM
  • Bill,

    "The dwt's are EW templates "

    I took that as the answer to that question.

    Friday, July 15, 2011 7:17 PM
  • Hi Bill


    My key to that -- is that when I update the pages one by one (format -> dynamic templates -> update selected page) it works fine.  I just wasn't planning to do this 10980 times.  LOL


    I tried the FPClean and that seems to make the site OPEN faster in EW ...


    but when I change a typo in the dwt and save the template ... I still get the 2 hour hourglass before the "there are 9982 pages ..." message.     I could drive to Tijuana in 2 hours




    Friday, July 15, 2011 7:45 PM
  • It's like it was designed to sites with 12 pages or something.

    Not EW itself, but the idea of design-time templating (DWTs) is indeed not meant to be used, or thought to be efficient or productive, with a site with thousands of files. I use both Dreamweaver (CS4) and EW, and I would never consider using DWTs for a site that size in either program.

    Regardless of how efficient the metadata tracking is (_vti or .notes files) for the site, it simply takes time to handle that many files. And I would guess, without being able to provide citation, that the likelihood of metadata corruption goes up significantly when that many files are involved.

    Since this appears to be your baby now, if I were you I would extract the common areas (typically header, footer, and navigation, sometimes a sidebar, as well) to include files, either SSI or (preferable, to me) php includes. Once extracted, use F&R to replace the instances of common area markup with calls to the associated includes, in small batches at first in case issues arise. Or, if you feel froggy, simply replace the common area markup in the DWT with the include call, and (maybe ;-) all attached pages will update to it.

    Anyway, however you handle the conversion, you will have single edit points for all of the common areas (includes), just as with the DWT approach, and more importantly, no metadata interdependence between the template and the other files. Publishing is also significantly faster, since changes to a common area require publishing only that area's include to the server, and changes to editable content requires publishing only the edited page.

    Will the conversion take time? Sure, no doubt. But, how much time per session are you wasting now dealing with the existing situation? Consider how much time will be saved with every session once the conversion is done. Your choice...  ;-)


    Please remember to "Mark as Answer" the responses that resolved your issue. It is common courtesy to recognize those who have helped you, and it also makes it easier for visitors to find the resolution later.
    Friday, July 15, 2011 7:57 PM
  • I missed your statement about being able to update one at a time. And Kathy posted...

    "The dwt's are EW templates "
    I took that as the answer to that question.

    ...and I re-read over your reply 3 times before I saw it (right at the start of a paragraph)!

    So, yeah, nevermind (but that explains why the client wants to use EW--I thought they might have changed in midstream).

    It's not the heat; it's the stupidity.

    Friday, July 15, 2011 8:32 PM
  • I'll repeat that includes processed on the server, not DWTs, are what should be used for that many pages.  A DWT that is supposed to update 10,000 pages is insanity, and of course takes forever.

    You could create server-side includes (in the technology of your choice) and carefully - make a backup copy of the site first - do "find and replace" to replace the DWT comments and content with references to the include(s).   Find and Replace can do all the files at once, although you'd have to test if it survives that 10K count.  If not, do groups of files at a time.

    This change would take time, but probably much less than you'd wait for even a few updates via DWT.  A server-side include takes no time to update the pages, because the pages don't get updated.  The server simply pulls whatever is in the current include file at the time the page is presented to the user.  An update would become: Fix a word in the include file, publish that one file.  Done.  All the pages that call for that include would show the change.

    Friday, July 15, 2011 9:26 PM
  • If it was up to me, I'd do something like that.

    Or maybe I'd choose a more respectable career such as being a piano player in a New Orleans brothel ... but I don't get that choice.   The site owner is a Luddite and I agree that, in some ways, he should be punished for what he has done.

    But the issue that is on my mind, however, is that AFTER the 1 hour EW takes to tell me that 10980 pages include default.dwt and AFTER the 30 minutes it takes update to tell me there are 9982 pages containing default.dwt and AFTER the 2 hours it takes to actually process those pages ... it updates ZERO of them ... yet I can, individually, update any one I want.

    I'd be perfectly fine with any program that, when asked to do something, says "You're kidding, right?"   I even have a program of my own out there that will reach a point where it actually says "I'm stopping now.  Here is a list of your horrendous mistakes.  When you clean up after yourself, re-run the program"


    But I do give them a list.


    anyway - thanks everyone.

    I've decided to give up.  (too many people ignore that option!)

    Saturday, July 16, 2011 12:13 AM
  • I've decided to give up.  (too many people ignore that option!)


    "If at first you don't succeed, try again. Then quit. No use being a fool about it."

    “Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.” - Dr. Seuss
    Saturday, July 16, 2011 12:27 AM
  • How about just making the changes to includes?  Why would the client care?

    As for EW telling you why it can't update all those files: well, if someone breaks your brain, how well can you diagnose yourself?  :)  Who knows what limits of EW - or of your own machine's resouces, we don't know - are stopping it from updating.

    Saturday, July 16, 2011 12:39 AM
  • Go to Site > Site Settings and make sure that "use meta data to manage this site" is checked. If it is not only open pages will update when you update the DWT by saving it. Otherwise you have to manually update the pages attached using the procedure you indicated works successfully.

    Running FPCleaner can't hurt either.

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    Saturday, July 16, 2011 12:47 AM