feature set for wpf/e RRS feed

  • Question

  • i  know wpf/e is doing a great job,  i am glad that u guys are doing it.  what i need from wpf/e is ability to build small data based applications like spread sheet or a simple application like picasa (for an example), i know i can do it wpf but u see i need to be everywhere not just on windows xp2 and above. today if i have to do it in html and ajax ... forget about it i am not even going to try,  so if wpf/e can provide framework where we can build small applications easily then we are going to a have a new revolution. Well media can be be one aspect of wpf/e but I am sure the big aspect would be mini apps on wpf/e which are built around data.

    I hope other people on forums too give their opinion on features they require from wpf/e.


    thanks prasanth

    Wednesday, December 13, 2006 9:40 PM


  • Thanks for this feedback. mini applications is a scenrio we look into. It would help us if you an others will try to drill down in to the scenarios you envision and prioritize you needs from the platform.
    Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:19 AM

All replies

  • Thanks for this feedback. mini applications is a scenrio we look into. It would help us if you an others will try to drill down in to the scenarios you envision and prioritize you needs from the platform.
    Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:19 AM
  •  Barak Cohen wrote:
    Thanks for this feedback. mini applications is a scenrio we look into. It would help us if you an others will try to drill down in to the scenarios you envision and prioritize you needs from the platform.
    It's good to see Microsoft people hanging around public forums and maintaining their own blogs.  I'll offer you some free advice, which you didn't ask for: people on the internet will give you brutally honest feedback which your co-workers and subordinates would never dream of.  People on the internet don't have to eat lunch with you, they don't have to sit through meetings with you, heck they don't even have to deal with the tiny, uncomfortable moment when you pass in the hallway going opposite directions.

    And in that vein...

    "Mini applications is a scenario we will look into"?  I guess I don't understand what the point of WPF/E was supposed to be.  A lot of people (myself included) thought that the whole reason you would port WPF to different platforms was for writing applications, which would then run on those different platforms.

    WPF, everywhere.  What do we do with WPF?  We write applications.  With WPF/E, those applications can run everywhere -- even on my mobile device.  Simple enough.

    Now we get our first look at it, and there are no UI controls?  What are we supposed to do with this?  It plays some media files, and it has drawing primitives.  There is absolutely nothing in the December CTP which Flash hasn't been doing since 1996.

    If this is all WPF/E is going to do, you may as well throw it away.  Flash has a ten-year head start.  It has thousands and thousands of developers.  It has full-featured authoring tools available today (including some free ones); it has a UI library (Flex).

    So when I hear MS people saying "mini applications is a scenario we will look into", I think to myself "Look into? What the heck have you people been doing since PDC'05?  You disappear for 18 months and come back with a simple media player that doesn't even understand mp3's?" 

    The "scenarios I envision", Barak, are all the same scenarios which people like me have been paid to develop since before .NET 1.0.  They're some of the same scenarios people currently use Flash for, despite Flash being a *** to develop with.  You know, applications.  Chat clients, picture sorters, a check register, that cool thing on my bank's website which lets me create a single-use credit card number, minesweeper, my SSH client...

    Applications.  The stuff we run on our computers every day.  The stuff google tries to imitate using Javascript and DHTML, with limited success.  It's hard to code functional applications without things like buttons and menus and drag-and-drop and file dialogs.

    This is so obvious I'm having a bit of trouble typing it, but here it is in black and white: Take XAML AND .NET, which are good, and use them to replace HTML AND JAVASCRIPT, which stink.  Call the whole thing WPF/E.  Is that clear enough?  When you browse to a site and instead of getting index.htm you get index.wpfe, your job is done.

    I don't just want to embed an island of XAML in my page, I want to use <GridLayout> to layout the whole page because even with CSS, getting HTML to layout and resize intelligently will drive you crazy.  And I want the content of that page to be surrounded by <TextFlow> tags instead of <div> tags.  Am I being clear?

    I think a lot of .NET programmers are honestly a bit perplexed by Microsoft right now.  There's this whole new XAML paradigm for coding applications.  A declarative UI model -- it's certainly a big shift away from the code-generator approach of Visual Studio 2005.

    It's going to take a lot of time and work to learn a whole new way of building applications.  I find WPF very interesting, because I'm a geek.  But my boss doesn't pay me to find things interesting.  As a professional developer, I'm wondering what my return on investment is going to be if I spend all that time learning this new XAML way of writing applications.

    Up until a few weeks ago, I had assumed that one payoff was going to be greater reach.  I mean, the whole point of creating a markup language for your UI design is that you can push it out over the internet, right?  I thought if I learn XAML, I would be getting a native-app language and a browser-app language at the same time.

    But lately I've noticed Microsoft talking more and more about AJAX as a cross-platform tool, and meanwhile XAML seems to be rotting on the vine.  Case in point: there are about a hundred XAML clocks out there (what is it with XAML and clocks?).  Yet not one of them can run in my Vista sidebar, because Microsoft went with HTML and Javascript for gadgets.  What's up with that?  WPF/E seemed like a brilliant play for Microsoft, but now I'm hearing that the ability to write applications is "something we'll look into"?  If it's not for writing applications, what is it for?  More clocks?

    Make no mistake: Cross-platform application development is coming.  If it's not WPF/E, it will be Flex or SVG.  People won't settle for anemic, HTML-based applications once there's something better.  I'm enough of a C# fan that I hope you guys make something of WPF/E.  I'm actually quite intrigued by XAML.

    But I can tell you this: When the people at Adobe look at WPF/E in its current state, they smile.  And when they see people from Microsoft saying "applications are a scenario we will look into", they laugh out loud.  I think you really had them scared for a while.

    Friday, December 15, 2006 6:22 AM
  • The Mr. Daryl post are exactly my feeling.

    I think stand-alone applications are on mature phase, now with .Net 3.0 is still better, with no trouble with instalation weight. But the internet applications had stagnate me at last two years.

    We used ASP.NET for first, extremely unconfortable with page refresh we started to write some javascript toghether. Then we started to learn about javascript a lot. Unhappy we started to learn Flash with FlashRemoting; so Flex 1.5, and so Laszlo, and So NeoSwiff. And in these time we didn't produce almost nothing.

    I think that .Net 3 is the great solution, BUT from here to 5 years, at least, because people need to prepare your machines installing the framework. So, for now, we was extremely happy with the iminent WPF/E... until the posts from MS people on the community such isn't obvious that we will need controls and .Net embedded.

    I love MS products and don't want create a unpleasantness here, but the fact of a MS to say that we must to create the controls it seems me ridiculous. Is not a problem to make the controls but I just want to know if you will made it, otherwise we can to start to do it and then you resolve to do it and more once we spend time for nothing.

    Of course MS is not obligate to solve the internet lack, but like Mr Daryl I was waiting since PDC05 when the tool was propposed.

    All that I would like to know now are a position from MS saying about features: "YES WE'LL Do IT", or "NO, WE'LL DON'T IT". Thus we'll can make a decision.

    Summarizing, We will love to know clearly if you will make the controls and a small .Net compiler to WPF/E with a server query classes. No trouble with the time.

    Thanks, and excuse my English.

    Friday, December 15, 2006 4:09 PM
  • hi there,

    i am very much exited when i heard about wpf/e 9 months ago and i was eagerly waiting for its release, asking many people when it will be released and all teh time i pictured wpf/e is about building applications that can be run every where, my intention is building some thing new that is not possible before.

     i expect lot of people  out there  also waiting for wpf/e because they want to create new applications that were not possible or very hard to create with html and JavaScript oe even flash, if we give feedback to wpf/e team about our application scenarios so that they can prioritize what features to include.

    i am dependent on wpf/e for my success so i hope that get it right.

    about the scenarios i will post mine in a week


    Friday, December 15, 2006 6:13 PM
  • Daryl's hit the nail on the head.

    We've all got high hopes for wpf/e. It's time for Microsoft to give us a roadmap.

    Saturday, December 16, 2006 5:13 AM