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Is Windows 8 entitled to be called "Windows"

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  •   Is Windows 8 entitled to be called "Windows"

    Yes - it's made by Microsoft and is the successor to Windows 7.

     

     

      Every program, or whatever you do happens "FULL SCREEN"

    When using the Windows 8 desktop you can have many windows open.

     

    Friday, September 30, 2011 5:17 PM
  • You expected too much for a bare bone that is not made for customer consumption.



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    Visual C++ MVP
    Friday, September 30, 2011 6:21 PM
  • Sheng Jiang,

    Why would you believe that there will be any change to the full-screen only "feature" of Metro apps in RTM, when Microsoft has specifically stated that this is not an artifact of the preview build, but an intentional part of the Metro design?


    Moderator | MCTS .NET 2.0 Web Applications | My Blog: http://www.commongenius.com
    Friday, September 30, 2011 9:03 PM
  • It is not a feature of metro apps. It is a lack of a feature of existing metro apps. Microsoft cannot prevent apps to add a close button and call CoreApplication.Exit (yes Microsoft has that designed, surprising?) when the button is clicked.

    It is the app's responsibility to have a user interface to properly close itself if the users are demanding a close option, just like their Windows counterpart. I don't know why you think it is an OS design. Do you blame IE for not providing a logout option for every web site?

    Of course, Microsoft can write OS in such a way that, leaving apps alone and let the OS kill the apps in batches could be more efficient. But UI design is the responsibility of app developers.



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    Visual C++ MVP
    Friday, September 30, 2011 10:04 PM
  • It's not windows it's MS BOB 2.0.  It's not a windows environment and it's not good for PC users.  Microsoft has a business strategy that involves forcing us to use a tablet OS (even if the PC experience is horrid) so people will think windows on a tablet makes sense. 

    It's odd that MS wants a strategy that is bad for their most loyal consumers.  I understand the business reasoning, but I hope they will realize that MS BOB was rated one of the worst 25 software blunders in history and that windows 8 may very well score even better on that list.

    @ Sheng Jiang 蒋晟

    Then why code for metro at all when I can have an app run in a window? If my app works in the desktop environment and it's more flexible, and I don't pay MS 30% of my revenue why would I ever code for metro if I can avoid it?


    • Edited by Bladehawk Friday, September 30, 2011 11:16 PM
    Friday, September 30, 2011 11:14 PM
  • You can make apps for Metro regardless of whether you pay the 30%, Bladehawk, you just don't get access to said store. 

    Correct me if I'm wrong.

    Friday, September 30, 2011 11:40 PM
  • Ok think of this: You are making a program for managers of a company, it's important for them to keep up to date wherever they are with the stocks etc.

    These people have to move around a lot, and a tablet for them is the easiest thing to carry around. (It's light & small). So what they want is to check the stock with a click of a button -> make an app for their tablet that does so. THEN make a desktop version of your program for when they are at home / office in which they can do more than a quick "on the fly" check.

    Tablets are just starting to make their way into our tech-world. But with a bit of fantasy you can think of how they fit in, and how they can be a great tool for developers.

    That being said: the Metro UI makes a unified interface between Desktop / Laptop / Tablet / WP (kind of) / Whatever may come in the future. So it's good to see what your app looks like on all of these with just one OS.

    Regards,

    Dylan Meeus


    0x2B |~ 0x2B Blog : www.it-ca.net/blogdylan
    Saturday, October 01, 2011 10:44 AM
  • "You can make apps for Metro regardless of whether you pay the 30%...you just don't get access to said store."

    This is not correct. It was stated repeatedly at BUILD that the store will be the ONLY way to distribute Metro apps. There have been hints that there will be some kind of exception for "enterprise customers and developers", but there has been no information about who will qualify as an enterprise customer or a developer, or what that exception will look like. Some people have also speculated based on certain statements from some BUILD sessions that you will be able to put your Metro app in the store -which means it has to pass all of Microsoft's "guidelines" - but charge for it through your own external system that will not require giving 30% to Microsoft. However, that is certainly not clear from the information we have right now, and it has not been confirmed by anyone from Microsoft.

    Ultimately I am with Bladehawk: I would love to take advantage of the automatic sandboxing and package-based installation features of Metro, but the other restrictions are so horrendous that there is simply no way I will write a Metro app under the conditions as they have been described to us so far.


    Moderator | MCTS .NET 2.0 Web Applications | My Blog: http://www.commongenius.com
    Monday, October 03, 2011 3:44 PM
  • CoreApplication.Exit does not actually exit the application; it currently has the same effect as closing the main window of the application, which is to close the window, but leave the app running with a green background screen. We have no way of knowing what the actual effect of CoreApplication.Exit will be; my guess based on everything we have seen so far is that it will suspend the app, not close it.

    You may have noticed, if you watched the keynote or any of the talks that referenced the Metro lifecycle, that the concept of a Metro app being closed by the user was never mentioned. You may have also noticed, if you watched the How and when your app will run talk, that the lifecycle of a Metro app was described in detail: it runs, it is suspended when the user switches away, it is terminated when the system decides to terminate it. There was no discussion of the user closing the app; it is simply not part of the design.

    This is not accidental; failing to talk about how to close an app is not an oversight or an artifact of an early build. The only possible way you get to this point is if it is intentional. And the only way it will change is if we speak up loudly and often now, while there is still time to change it.


    Moderator | MCTS .NET 2.0 Web Applications | My Blog: http://www.commongenius.com
    Monday, October 03, 2011 3:56 PM
  • It is not a feature of metro apps. It is a lack of a feature of existing metro apps. Microsoft cannot prevent apps to add a close button and call CoreApplication.Exit (yes Microsoft has that designed, surprising?) when the button is clicked.

    It is the app's responsibility to have a user interface to properly close itself if the users are demanding a close option, just like their Windows counterpart. I don't know why you think it is an OS design. Do you blame IE for not providing a logout option for every web site?

    Of course, Microsoft can write OS in such a way that, leaving apps alone and let the OS kill the apps in batches could be more efficient. But UI design is the responsibility of app developers.



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    Visual C++ MVP

    Making App closure a responsibility of the app/author is a UI disaster waiting to happen, You'll have Close/Exit/Quite/WaveByBye buttons splattered on the toolbar / top bar / embedded on a page at the whim of each programmer who thinks his way is best. Logout from a web site is a completely different subject (all apps eventually have to close, not all web sites require login/logout). Consistent methods of application exit have been a feature of Windows (and Mac) GUI's since day 1 and much as I'm eagerly awaiting the next MS blog where they've promised to 'explain' to us why we won't need user invoked app exit I still think there are certain apps that I absolutely want to exit (facebook at the end of lunch breaks, IM clients, eMail clients when presenting or sharing my desktop in webex sessions) 
    Acer W500 tablet Ageing HP laptop Too much apple stuff
    Wednesday, October 05, 2011 9:56 PM
  • It's not windows it's MS BOB 2.0. 



    I thought I was the only one who remembered BOB, actually Metro reminds me more of MSDOS & Desqview (Dos based task switcher predating Windows) or the ability of some VT terminals (420's I think) that could let you switch between 4 green screen sessions.


    Acer W500 tablet Ageing HP laptop Too much apple stuff
    Wednesday, October 05, 2011 10:10 PM
  • And the only way it will change is if we speak up loudly and often now, while there is still time to change it.


    Moderator | MCTS .NET 2.0 Web Applications | My Blog: http://www.commongenius.com
    Agreed: MS We want an official API call and clearly defined UI guidelines for allowing user invoked app closure

    Acer W500 tablet Ageing HP laptop Too much apple stuff
    Wednesday, October 05, 2011 10:20 PM
  • This is not accidental; failing to talk about how to close an app is not an oversight or an artifact of an early build. The only possible way you get to this point is if it is intentional. And the only way it will change is if we speak up loudly and often now, while there is still time to change it.



    It's been stated on the official Building Windows 8 blog that there will be a way to close Metro apps without going to the task manager, but that the intention is that you won't expect to have to use it very often which fits well with the current design. Details should come in a future blog post.

    The key take-away for developers at the moment is that the system is being put largely in control of the applications lifecycle, so you will not be able to take the easy option of burdening the application close with the task of saving state, you must do it far more frequently as you will at best get very brief notification before the app is suspended and potentially terminated. This will ultimately give end users a significantly better experience as even a severe crash should never result in significant data loss from a Metro application.

    Thursday, October 06, 2011 8:31 AM