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[Win8] future of .net programmers with windows 8 RRS feed

  • General discussion

  • hi,

    As we know  microsoft will  adopt html5  and  js  as programming  tools  for it's  comming  os codenamed  windows  8 so the questions  are

     . Should we harry  to  learn  html5 and javascript  as many bloggers talk  about  our end  (I  mean .net programmers) ?

     Does  microsoft fails in  adopting  the old lockin strategies and it's trying to follow  the trend?

     What about all investiments done during all  10 years  of .net framework will still be usefull ?   

    windows  8  will have success  ....? 

     


    A man's dreams are an index to his greatness
    Monday, October 3, 2011 9:46 AM

All replies

  • I've seen two reactions to this story that amount to:

    1 We're doomed. All that .Net stuff is a waste of time. MS are abandoning us.

    2 The world changes but not as fast as you might think. There will be no revolution that overthrows .Net in a night. So let's just get on with things as usual while keeping an eye on the horizon.

    I suspect 2 is nearer the truth.

    As for all the last 10 years' investment being useful. I can think of a number of COBOL and VMS Basic programs that were done in the 1980'2 and are still useful. LOL.


    Regards David R
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    Every program eventually becomes rococo, and then rubble. - Alan Perlis
    The only valid measurement of code quality: WTFs/minute.
    Monday, October 3, 2011 11:46 AM
  • Yes you should learn HTML5 and Javascript (jQuery) but not because of Microsoft.

    .NET isn't going to go away.

    10 years experience in anything will always have value.

    What's the point of Windows 8?


    "The programmer, like the poet, works only slightly removed from pure thought-stuff. He builds his castles in the air, from air, creating by exertion of the imagination." - Fred Brooks
    Monday, October 3, 2011 1:09 PM
  • Hi Br.Kamel;

    To the question, "Should we harry to learn html5 and javascript as many bloggers talk about our end (I mean .net programmers) ?", In my opinion we in our profession should always keep up to date on emerging technology and so learning html5 and javascript and adding them to our tools is a good thing. As far as, "about our end", not so. Windows 8 will have two paradigm one being the current Win32 desk top and WinRT for Windows Metro Style application like those that run on tablets. They will be running side by side and so .Net programmers will be needed seeming both run on .Net Framework.
     
    To your question, "Does Microsoft fails in adopting the old lockin strategies and it's trying to follow the trend?", In my opinion Microsoft is expanding its product to include new technologies and NOT abandoning the old.
     
    To your question, "What about investmentsents done during all 10 years of .Net Framework will still be usefull ?", In my opinion, Yes. You will not use the new technology Windows Metro Style applications to develop heavy data entry, CAD, and programs like Visual Studio .Net development environment you will still need to use Win32 style applications for these type apps.
     
    To your question, "Windows 8 will have success  ....?", I believe it will.

     


    Fernando (MCSD)

    If a post answers your question, please click "Mark As Answer" on that post and "Mark as Helpful".
    Monday, October 3, 2011 2:57 PM
  • The thing with Windows 8 is where does it belong?

    It's been developed primarily for touch screen so that's tablet or smarter than usual desktop/laptop. It's taking on Android and iOS.

    That's the point of Windows 8.

     

    It will be successful but to what degree. Normal every day people buying a tablet will either buy the iPad or the Samsung Galaxy (if the courts allow them to be sold) as they are the established and trusted (expensive) products. Commission will be high on them so the sales people will push them. Then word of mouth of friends and family especially with the iPad. Take someone who knows nothing about computers. The iPad is ideal for them.

    Without looking it up name a tablet/smartphone running Windows?

     

    There are tablets running Windows software, with very little press, but it's Windows 7 and it's point and click finger moving the mouse sort of interface and that's not touch screen friendly, which is where Windows 8 comes in. Thing is:

     

    Is there any advantage to home desktop/laptop users running Windows 7 to update to Windows 8. Not really, maybe if they have touch screen capabilities already but there isn't a great deal of reason to upgrade, not really.

     

    Is there any advantages to businesses running XP/Windows 7 laptop/desktops to update to Windows 8. Well maybe some part of the business will benefit from touch screen capabilities but is it worth the expense? ... depends... for the most part I don't believe there will be a massive upgrade. XP is alive and well.

     

    Windows 8 is all about tablet and smartphone technologies, which are fairly well established.


    I think Windows 8 has missed the majority of the home user market, Microsoft will need to bank on businesses adopting tablet technologies for Windows 8 to be really successful. It's a niche that Android and iOS are kind of missing out on at the minute and that's because most those businesses are founded on Microsoft technologies. Windows 8 will bridge that gap well but still not all business roles need a tablet. Even tried writting code with a soft keyboard.

    Microsoft need to go for the tablet that becomes a laptop (or a laptop that becomes a tablet) in order to be really successful in the business market with Windows 8. That would work really well for Microsoft.

    Will it be successful? in a way but it's an interesting one. Not black or white, 1 or 0, true or false, yes or no.

     

    Just my $0.02.


    "The programmer, like the poet, works only slightly removed from pure thought-stuff. He builds his castles in the air, from air, creating by exertion of the imagination." - Fred Brooks
    • Edited by Derek Smyth Tuesday, October 4, 2011 8:18 AM
    Tuesday, October 4, 2011 8:14 AM
  • oh yeah in terms of development on these platforms.

    Well HTML5 is all about the browser and Apple, Google, and now Microsoft (by the looks of things) are all signed up to HTML5. It's the ideal cross platform language. If you want to develop for all these plaftorms HTML5 would be ideal.

    No idea what Objective C is like but development for Android is done with Java. Got C# experience then you'll have little problem migrating over. There is a Mono for Android platform that means you don't even need to think about learning, how dull. Windows 8 will have a version of the CLR on it, if it didn't then Microsoft will have shot themselves in the foot; unlikely.

     

    keep the change.

     


    "The programmer, like the poet, works only slightly removed from pure thought-stuff. He builds his castles in the air, from air, creating by exertion of the imagination." - Fred Brooks
    Tuesday, October 4, 2011 8:28 AM
  • Yea same idea.

    :-)


    Success
    Cor
    Tuesday, October 4, 2011 8:57 AM
  • Not so sure, 

    HTML has got many developments, for some reason managers want to use this kind of text style programmers. Real programmers know it fails and we get than again a kind of rotten kind of program languages good for kids, but with a lot of failures. .Net programs have showed to fulfil this gap. 

    If the managers again win over the developers we get again a long time that crap as in the time of the so called 4th generation software.

    One thing it fulfils, it creates a bunch of work and therefore money for the managers in all the maintaining that has to be done.

     


    jmo
    Cor
    Tuesday, October 4, 2011 9:00 AM
  • I really fail to understand how this has anything to do with the future of the framework.

    EDIT: You should always learn as a developer, it's part of your job to learn.

    You shouldn't wait for the market to catch-up you should see the potential in new technologies, try them as they are released and judge for yourself  whether it's useful to your work.

    Not every developer needs to learn HTML5 or jQuery and even so these are not so hard to learn, like in anything it's the experience that matters.


    Eyal (http://shilony.net), Regards.
    Tuesday, October 4, 2011 9:13 AM
    Moderator
  • You probably find developers will use development tools that produce HTML5 or more likely tools that allow them to build applications with HTML5; Rails and ASP.NET MVC, rather than directly and exclusively writting in markup.

    The technology to do that, whatever it is, sits on the server and generates the HTML5 that's then consumed by the devices browser. Another reason .NET's going nowhere.

    Difference is the web site will be designed specifically for mobile devices, the small touch screen, more context specific controls, and light on download size.... HTML5...


    "The programmer, like the poet, works only slightly removed from pure thought-stuff. He builds his castles in the air, from air, creating by exertion of the imagination." - Fred Brooks
    Tuesday, October 4, 2011 9:16 AM
  • @ayal

    as microsoft is  doing  a lot of investiment in  html5 and  js  the fear is  that wpf windows form  and wcf etc... will  be deprecated  as technologie and as we know there is  no  need  for CLR  to run   html5 and js  all  are based on  the shared (at least for windows ) IE10 .dll 


    A man's dreams are an index to his greatness
    Tuesday, October 4, 2011 9:24 AM
  • as microsoft is  doing  a lot of investiment in  html5 and  js  the fear is  that wpf windows form  and wcf etc... will  be deprecated  as technologie and as we know there is  no  need  for CLR  to run   html5 and js  all  are based on  the shared (at least for windows ) IE10 .dll

    I'm not declining the thought that in the future HTML might be a world standard for UI development but to current date both HTML5 and jQuery are mainly used to build interactive web pages and is only used and available in browsers.

    They don't need the CLR to work but they do need a browser or at least an engine to execute them and it's not different from having a CLR that is basically the run-time engine which executes .NET programs, also, the .NET framework has a lot more than just the CLR.

    Based on experience both WPF and WinForms are here to stay for a very long time, as a matter of fact I don't think desktop applications will cease to exist, time will tell.

    p.s. my name is Eyal. :)


    Eyal (http://shilony.net), Regards.

    Tuesday, October 4, 2011 10:52 AM
    Moderator
  • It is all too early to say with any certainty, but don't believe that anything that you have sweated blood over is anything other than transient.  I've seen this all before.  In the mid-1980's the mainframe community were in denial for a long time while PC's took over the world.  There has been a revolution not dis-similar to the PC happening right under everyone's noses - mobile.

    "Tablets and mobile computing is no good for buisiness", they said that about PCs.

    "Tablets and mobile computing are toys", they said that about PCs as well.

    Microsoft are not daft, they have seen which way the wind is blowing.  Of course it might not be a repeat of the decimation of mainframes, but consider it a possibility.

    Thursday, October 6, 2011 3:56 PM
  • It is all too early to say with any certainty, but don't believe that anything that you have sweated blood over is anything other than transient.  I've seen this all before.  In the mid-1980's the mainframe community were in denial for a long time while PC's took over the world.  There has been a revolution not dis-similar to the PC happening right under everyone's noses - mobile.

    "Tablets and mobile computing is no good for buisiness", they said that about PCs.

    "Tablets and mobile computing are toys", they said that about PCs as well.

    Microsoft are not daft, they have seen which way the wind is blowing.  Of course it might not be a repeat of the decimation of mainframes, but consider it a possibility.

    Thing is are Microsoft too late? Remember the Zune?

    Maybe it doesn't matter to Microsoft if they are too late or not. They get a cut from Android thanks to the recent patent wars.

     

    I posted about using tools to produce HTML5 for mobile apps.... PhoneGap.


    "The programmer, like the poet, works only slightly removed from pure thought-stuff. He builds his castles in the air, from air, creating by exertion of the imagination." - Fred Brooks
    Friday, October 7, 2011 7:33 AM
  • Let's not forget that Win 8 will run in normal desktop mode and tablet mode. Normal desktop mode (for games and business applications) will still support .Net programs.
    Friday, October 7, 2011 8:21 AM
  • My response to this would be: Nice to see Microsoft introduce another (better) version of HTA (HTML Application) file. Wish it go further this time.

    One concern of me is about browser versions that use to render it. I traditional application, if it runs on a platform, it runs on a platform. When it comes to HTML5 UI implementation, if the rendering engine (browser) upgrades to another version (like someday we'll get HTML6? no?), will it break part of the UI? If it will, that's ugly.

    Since I'm a web developer, I have little concern to this. Even if the UI changes, I doubt the underlying code that drives the UI will really change that much. You just need to learn how to glue things together, I guess.


    Friday, October 7, 2011 9:41 AM
    Answerer
  • Again, I really don't understand how HTML<WHATEVER> will ever replace .NET... .NET is a framework, HTML is a language and someone here have it all wrong.

    Eyal (http://shilony.net), Regards.
    Saturday, October 8, 2011 6:41 PM
    Moderator
  • I agree that .Net isn't disappearing anytime soon. 

    Nevertheless from a 100,000 foot view perspective, consider how each successive version of Windows since NT has gotten slower and more sluggish.  Even on my eight-core I7, 8-Gigabyte ram laptop, I many times a day must wait multiple seconds for Windows 7 64-bit to complete what are very simple tasks.   Modern Intel-based systems are extremely powerful hardware, and to think that the human must patiently wait for the computer to react to simple actions is quite ridiculous.  I suspect this is in-part due to greater portions of the underlying Windows 7 platform utility software having been implemented in .Net?


    jr

    Monday, March 26, 2012 6:30 PM
  • I agree that .Net isn't disappearing anytime soon. 

    Nevertheless from a 100,000 foot view perspective, consider how each successive version of Windows since NT has gotten slower and more sluggish.  Even on my eight-core I7, 8-Gigabyte ram laptop, I many times a day must wait multiple seconds for Windows 7 64-bit to complete what are very simple tasks.   Modern Intel-based systems are extremely powerful hardware, and to think that the human must patiently wait for the computer to react to simple actions is quite ridiculous.  I suspect this is in-part due to greater portions of the underlying Windows 7 platform utility software having been implemented in .Net?


    jr

    Being a hardware geek, and working in the industry, I must mention that you have a quad-core i7. A little technology called "Hyperthreading" adds additional threads, or "virtual cores" to the processor. If your Win7 distro is running slowly, try cleaning out the registry, cleaning out all the bloatware prebuilts come with, reinstalling Windows.

    If it still loads slowly, it is more than likely because of your hard drive. In laptops, you will more than likely find a 5400RPM drive, which is the slowest drive speed available. With that drive speed, it takes longer for the disk to spin up and it spins more slowly, so the head cannot read as frequently as it would on, say, a 7200RPM drive.


    • Edited by LMCSHERRY Monday, March 26, 2012 7:15 PM
    Monday, March 26, 2012 7:14 PM
  •  @jr_fab the problem that  Windows can become Slow  and  more sluggish it's not only for Windows OS  but for any modern  system  that must balance  security  and robustness. in addition the problem with  microsoft is that it's creating something  and sell another thing (I mean  It does  not controlling the hardware ). 

    I agree  with LMcSherry because the speed  of the system depends on more than one factors  such  as RAM, CPU, CPU cache. Software  design, BUS,  Storage Device  etc  ......

    to all users of this forum   please try to follow the discussion topic and not try to give a bad ads to microsoft, it's not the aim of this discussion 


    A man's dreams are an index to his greatness

    Tuesday, March 27, 2012 7:36 AM
  • Btw, when I was frontline hardware support staff, the most often cause for slow system is antivirus software.

    There was one antivirus (that I'll not name it) that performs scan on every action "by the same scan engine process". The net result is every single process that uses disk have every actions being serialized. The system responsiveness is at "nearly hang" level.

    No amount of hardware changes, including changing disk to SSDs, will help in this case.

    Tuesday, March 27, 2012 7:46 AM
    Answerer

  • As for all the last 10 years' investment being useful. I can think of a number of COBOL and VMS Basic programs that were done in the 1980'2 and are still useful. LOL.


    David, the most money goes still around in Cobol programs in the world and certainly not in C#.

    So in my perception no LOL, but reality.


    Success
    Cor

    Tuesday, March 27, 2012 7:53 AM