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a fine recipee for a headache RRS feed

  • Question

  •  

    Hi, I like to know why .NET 3.5 does not show up when you need to select a .NET Framework with the creation of a website.  From what i'm hearing .NET 3.5 is a mix of .NET 2 plus updates and .NET 3.0 + updates.  Is this true? Because if it is it's not very consistent.

     

    Why not build a new complete .NET 3.5 ?  Because this is all very confusing and the risk of breaking existing websites .NET 2 code is very real and NOT expected.  It is impossisible to guarantee that the existing .NET 2 code is not broken.

     

    This is like getting a new car and  - without reading the fine print - getting your old car-which-still-drives-very-fine-and-I-don't-need-any-new-oil updated which it don't need.

     

     

    This all is a fine recipee for a headache

     

     

     

    Sincerely

    Ed

    Tuesday, January 8, 2008 10:31 PM

Answers

  • .NET 3.5 is not a completely new version, but a set of additional classes. Don't get confused with .NET 2.0 SP1 and .NET 3.0 SP1, the updates that are distributed with .NET 3.5 (and also independently); .NET 3.5 is not "a mix" of updates, but an extension that happens to be distributed with the updates.

     

    Using your car example... .NET 3.5 is not "buy a new car" but "add more fancy accesories to your existing car, maybe with some existing components getting substitited at the same time". If you don't need even the new oil, don't update it; it is recommended that you at least get the updates, because it will run better even without big changes; but what about adding new capabilities that you hadn't before? That's what .NET 3.5 is.

     

    For details, there is a now classic blog post that I believe is the clearer picture for what it is 3.5 (the "greenbits") and 2.0/3.0 updates.

     

    http://www.danielmoth.com/Blog/2007/06/net-framework-35.html

    Wednesday, January 9, 2008 7:05 AM
    Moderator

All replies

  • .NET 3.5 is not a completely new version, but a set of additional classes. Don't get confused with .NET 2.0 SP1 and .NET 3.0 SP1, the updates that are distributed with .NET 3.5 (and also independently); .NET 3.5 is not "a mix" of updates, but an extension that happens to be distributed with the updates.

     

    Using your car example... .NET 3.5 is not "buy a new car" but "add more fancy accesories to your existing car, maybe with some existing components getting substitited at the same time". If you don't need even the new oil, don't update it; it is recommended that you at least get the updates, because it will run better even without big changes; but what about adding new capabilities that you hadn't before? That's what .NET 3.5 is.

     

    For details, there is a now classic blog post that I believe is the clearer picture for what it is 3.5 (the "greenbits") and 2.0/3.0 updates.

     

    http://www.danielmoth.com/Blog/2007/06/net-framework-35.html

    Wednesday, January 9, 2008 7:05 AM
    Moderator
  •  

    That's even worse. Adding fancy new accesories to my cars I allready like.

     

    Point is: I want 3.5 but not the updates of 2.   I want to be in control of my websites.  What's next? MS pushing .NET 4 and then 50% of your websites which are build with 2.0 or 3.5 ?

    Wednesday, January 9, 2008 4:53 PM
  • Maybe my example wasn't clear enough. 3.5 are the fancy new accesories, not the new car. I thought looking at the graph in the link provided should clarify that.

     

    So what you are saying is that you want the fancy new accessories but not to do some maintenance that the new accesories require (from my obsolete knowledge of car internals, something like adding a turbo charger without disassembling anything in the engine or touching any screw?)

     

    Can you clarify what control on websites is lost?

     

    There is no "mandatory upgrade" for .NET FW; on the contrary, you select the level of compatibility required, in such a way that you can have whatever version of the framework your apps need, side to side, from 1.1 to 3.5. The only version that is incompatible and cannot be running side to side is 1.0 (you either use 1.0 or 1.1). For a website, you need to specify if the site will run with the 1.1 .NET FW, or any of the 2.0/3.0/3.5 .NET FW (again, these three versions are incremental, not a substitution).

     

    That being said: 3.5 requires the updates to 2.0 to work (probably should be clearer "the bug fixes included in 2.0SP1", since 2.0SP1 doesn't provide "new functionality"). I find surprising that bug fixes get less priority for updating that new features, but would like to understand what your websites environment needs are.

     

     

    Wednesday, January 9, 2008 11:15 PM
    Moderator
  •  Ed Moya wrote:

     

    That's even worse. Adding fancy new accesories to my cars I allready like.

     

    Point is: I want 3.5 but not the updates of 2.   I want to be in control of my websites.  What's next? MS pushing .NET 4 and then 50% of your websites which are build with 2.0 or 3.5 ?

     


    It is very simple if you are in VS2008 your references will added for you, if you are in VS2005 you need to create Web.ConFig sections like the IIS forum posting in the thread below.  So your 3.0 and 3.5 Asp.net code is not in the same place as Asp.net 2.0  Hope this helps.


    http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=2537154&SiteID=1

    Wednesday, January 9, 2008 11:29 PM
    Moderator
  • So what you are saying is that you want the fancy new accessories but not to do some maintenance that the new accesories require (from my obsolete knowledge of car internals, something like adding a turbo charger without disassembling anything in the engine or touching any screw?)

     

    I'm saying: leave my car which is running fine alone. I'm in the shop for new cars. Don't try to fix something which is not broken.

     

    That being said: 3.5 requires the updates to 2.0 to work (probably should be clearer "the bug fixes included in 2.0SP1", since 2.0SP1 doesn't provide "new functionality"). I find surprising that bug fixes get less priority for updating that new features, but would like to understand what your websites environment needs are.

     

    That's the whole problem.   You need the .2 fixes in order to play with 3.5.  If you have a webserver with +50 .NET 2 sites and you add a new 3.5 one you get pushed the .Net 2 updates and risk problems with the +50 .NET 2 sites!   I simply cannot assume that there will be no problems with the 50 websites. Every webapplication needs again thorougly testing. A disaster.

     

    to clarify even more, lets say in the futute we have a situation:

     

    50 .NET 2 webapplications

    12  .NET 3.5

    20 .NET 4.0

    12 .NET 5.3

    7 .NET 6.4

     

    Do you think .NET 6.4 depends on updates for 4.0 or 2.0 or both?  You realize you have to test all your webapplications? 

     

    .NET 3.5 needs a build on his own (or a .NET 3 base) and not be depended on other versions the framework.  

     

    Sincerly,

    Edward

     

     

     

    Thursday, January 10, 2008 10:23 AM
  • @Cadre:
    It is very simple if you are in VS2008 your references will added for you, if you are in VS2005 you need to create Web.ConFig sections like the IIS forum posting in the thread below.  So your 3.0 and 3.5 Asp.net code is not in the same place as Asp.net 2.0  Hope this helps.

     

    youre missing the point. I want to use .NET 3.5 and no updates for all my perfectly running 50 websites

     

    Thursday, January 10, 2008 10:33 AM
  • (youre missing the point. I want to use .NET 3.5 and no updates for all my perfectly running 50 websites )

     

    No I am not missing the point because as someone with big three experience the car maybe new but most of the internal engine which is what IIS6 and the .NET framework is to your web site is just new copy.  The beauty of IIS  you can build your own html parser and run it.

     

     

    Thursday, January 10, 2008 2:00 PM
    Moderator
  •  Ed Moya wrote:

     

    youre missing the point. I want to use .NET 3.5 and no updates for all my perfectly running 50 websites

     

     

    Sp1 for .NET Framework 2.0 won't break your website, unless your code depends on the bugs which have been fixed.

    Smile

     

    Thanks

    Friday, January 11, 2008 10:44 AM
  •  

    Sp1 for .NET Framework 2.0 won't break your website, unless your code depends on the bugs which have been fixed.

     

    ah exactly ! So you understand that we must remove any code we had to made to compensate for bugs? Just because MS patches .NET 2 when you install 3.5 ?

    Sunday, January 13, 2008 1:09 PM
  • If I understand you correctly your saying that most of 3.5 is a copy of 2.0?  Because if this is so why is 3.5 depending on the updates of 2?  3.5 is just an extension of 2.0 and not a real stand-alone release. Hence the problems.

    Sunday, January 13, 2008 1:19 PM
  • No you did not understand me correctly because that would mean I am saying .NET 3.0 which is live since early 2007 with three main development platform WPF, WCF and WWF is also a copy of .NET 2.0.  All of the above also uses IIS 6, Asp.net problems in IIS 6 are less related to .NET framework version than disabled features and permissions.

     

    http://wpf.netfx3.com/

     

    Monday, January 14, 2008 1:41 AM
    Moderator
  • Could you explain why there is no option to select .NET 3.5 in IIS?  Is this because 3.5 is actually 2.0 with updates and add-ons?

    Friday, January 18, 2008 1:14 PM
  • Read the last post in the thread below at IIS forum from Microsoft Online lead.

     

    http://forums.iis.net/p/1133618/1860351.aspx

    Friday, January 18, 2008 1:21 PM
    Moderator
  • Thanks.

     

    Thanks MS for risking all our .NET 2 webapps if you install 3.5 on the same server.

    Friday, January 18, 2008 2:37 PM