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Oh my God, add a start menu!

    General discussion

  • After playing a bit with Windows 8, the start button behavior is horrible.

    This is a joke, right? I just can't imagine a secretary in a law firm being fine doing office work that way. Want to open up Excel? Sure:

    1. Press start

    2. scroll around in Metro and witness the eye candy

    3. Forget in the meanwhile what you wanted to do in the first place

    4. Getting yelled at by the boss, so you remember again and finally find Office

    5. Get a headache from all the Desktop/Metro switch effects

    6. Run to the toilet to puke

    7. Work done

    Oh, and please, please, never ditch the desktop. Something simple like opening up IE and copy and paste some text into multiple notepad windows is a gargantuan task in Metro, if possible at all. [reposted from another MS forum to the "official" Win8 one]

    Saturday, September 17, 2011 10:23 PM

All replies

  • or...

    1) Pin Excel to the Start screen

    2) Click Excel

     

    The new Start screen does seem to divide opinions, personally I love it, but then I've been a Windows Phone user for some time so I've gotten used to how useful live tiles can be and how much time they save :-)


    Developer. Windows, Mac OS X, iOS, WP7, Silverlight.
    Saturday, September 17, 2011 11:15 PM
  • I love it, but then I've been a Windows Phone user for some time so I've gotten used to how useful live tiles can be and how much time they save :-) 

     

    It's only useful with a touchscreen. Not everyone has a touchscreen, nor is it desirable for all cases.

    Imagine the typical situation of a office worker.... now add a touchscreen to it:

    10 years later:

     

    Scary. Being forced to use a touchscreen in that position for a prolonged time is akin to torture. You better save up for your arthritis meds later.

    Isn't that positon like against EVERY ergonomics recommendation in existence?
    http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=22781

    Improper height and angle of the keyboard, mouse, or working surface can cause employees to bend their wrists or lift their arms for extended periods.

    Possible Solutions:


    Adjust the keyboard and/or chair height so the employee's elbows can hang comfortably at the side of the body, the shoulders are relaxed and the wrist is not bent up or down or to either side during keyboard use

     

     
    Saturday, September 17, 2011 11:50 PM
  • At the very least provide a "classic mode" option.  I know mousing is sooooo 2011ish, but heck, I'm 70 and really, really, really do like my Windows 7 UI.  What if I don't want to learn Metro? 
    Colin Barnhorst Windows 7 Ultimate x64 on DIY with 6GB ram.
    Sunday, September 18, 2011 12:20 AM
  • Before posting something like this, have you at least tried using the interface with a regular keyboard/mouse? If you use the interface without using a touchscreen then it's actually easier to use than the old start menu.

    1. Let's assume for starters that you have the start screen pretty much setup like it is right now. Your primary apps would be in the first column, maybe games in the second column, social media type stuff in the third column and finally productivity stuff in the 4th column.

    2. Put your hand on the mouse and spin the wheel on the mouse down. Viola, you are scrolled over to the productivity apps and you click excel.

    In the old system, you would click start, programs, scroll to find office and launch excel. So, I would bet that the admins I have worked with are plenty capable of using a new, simpler way to do it. . .without a touch screen.

    On the other hand, let's say you like the old way of launching excel. Great. Launch the desktop app and pin excel to the start taskbar. Now, in the regular view, you click on the excel icon at the bottom of the screen and you don't even have to see the start menu. In fact, if you are someone who likes pinning your apps to the screen. . .keep the old view and have at it.  . .

    BTW, did you even notice with a mouse, it makes the scroll through apps much better than swiping in from the left. Instead, place your cursor on the left side and the picture icon will pop up. Scroll down to see the different open apps and click the mouse when you get the one you want. . .or you can just windows+tab and scroll through without taking your hands off the keyboard (the alt-tab also works).

    Let's just call it like it is. You aren't accustomed to the new look and you would prefer the old style menu. If that's the case, keep running Windows 7 for the next few years until your mind can get around to be accustomed to the new look and feel.

     

    Sunday, September 18, 2011 12:57 AM
  • Does a customer HAVE to a thing your way?  Does a business prosper by listening to its employees rather than its customers?  I have been using Windows since WFW and Microsoft software since 1982.  Don't tell me to use Windows 7 until it goes out of support.  Microsoft sold me on the idea of Ultimate and only later did it come out that Ultimate goes out of support five years sooner than Professional.  I am reasonably skeptical about whose idea some things are.  If customers don't want such a jarring change in their user interface forced on them then listen.
    Colin Barnhorst Windows 7 Ultimate x64 on DIY with 6GB ram.
    Sunday, September 18, 2011 1:06 AM
  • I agree with VeryBoringNickname,

    even though I really like the Metro UI, I find it very frustrating that they removed the Start menu!

    specially the way it was in Windows 7.

    I think MS should have tweaked it, not remove it completely.
    Like I always wished it would take the whole height of the screen...

    At least let it have the installed program list.
    because now there's no easy way to access those in the classic Desktop UI.

    And a lot of people are going to be working in the Desktop UI.
    The Metro UI would be ok to check the news, or the weather...
    but for serious work, we still need a fully functional Desktop interface.


    • Edited by mellowsong Sunday, September 18, 2011 1:46 AM
    Sunday, September 18, 2011 1:43 AM
  • ***crickets***
    Sunday, September 18, 2011 2:25 AM
  • Hold on...I think we might be confusing two different things here: the Start menu versus the Start screen.  I love the Live Tile concept on the Start screen.  I have a Samsung Focus and Live Tiles are one of the things about Windows Phone 7 that I prefer to the iPhone.  

    But I also love the Start menu in Windows 7. 

    Unfortunately, the Start menu in Windows 8 is severely crippled. Win8's Start menu is missing most of the functionality of Win7's Start menu.  All you have now are Search, Settings, Devices and Share.  That’s it.  Gone are the Programs, Documents, Music, Pictures, Games, etc.  You can no longer start a program from the Start menu.  Also, clicking on the Windows orb doesn’t bring up the Start menu anymore.  Instead, it takes you back to the Metro UI. 

     

    Sunday, September 18, 2011 2:43 AM
  • Mellowsong,

    The new start menu is just an installed programs list. But it's formatted differently. As it stands, every program you install gets pinned to the start menu and you can move it/organize it how you want. Is it really just the new format that you object to, or is there something functional that you are missing?

     

     

    Sunday, September 18, 2011 2:48 AM
  • I Think MS should make have it be a normal start button, but when you go all the way to the lower left corner- do the metro UI popup thing... ALSO create options on this, some people may not want to use the Metro UI whatsoever, make it an option, not a hack...

    Sunday, September 18, 2011 2:48 AM
  • some people may not want to use the Metro UI whatsoever, make it an option, not a hack...

    Absolutely, imarki.  It's a business.  Why not give customers what they say they want?


    Colin Barnhorst Windows 7 Ultimate x64 on DIY with 6GB ram.
    Sunday, September 18, 2011 2:57 AM
  • If you are using Windows 8 Developer Preview and don't like the Metro UI, you can enable the classic start menu anytime!

    Steps:

    • Open regedit.exe
    • Go to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer
    • change value of RPEnabled from "1" to "0"


    To get back the Metro UI, change the value back to "1"

    In the final version you won't have to use the classic start menu. According to Neowin, this registry trick is for the Windows 8 Developer Preview only.
    Thursday, February 2, 2012 4:16 PM
  • If you are using Windows 8 Developer Preview and don't like the Metro UI, you can enable the classic start menu anytime!

    Steps:

    • Open regedit.exe
    • Go to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer
    • change value of RPEnabled from "1" to "0"


    To get back the Metro UI, change the value back to "1"

    In the final version you won't have to use the classic start menu. According to Neowin, this registry trick is for the Windows 8 Developer Preview only.
    Thursday, February 2, 2012 4:16 PM
  • yes, this will not work withthe Beta :(
    "A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code"

    Thursday, February 2, 2012 8:47 PM
  • the cosumer preview (beta) also removed the start orb:


    "A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code"

    Saturday, February 4, 2012 3:45 PM
  • That image might not be right.  The consumer preview has not been released yet, so this version is probably incomplete and still in development.
    Sunday, February 5, 2012 1:23 PM
  • no, the code is freezed and this version is now tested by the OEMs and if no issues are found the version will be released.
    "A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code"

    Sunday, February 5, 2012 1:31 PM
  • Actually it's more like this:

     

    1. press windows key

    2. Type "excel" (in most cases 'ex' or 'exc' will allready be enough)

    3. press enter

     

    Or, what is actually more likely if you use Excel a lot at work

    1. click the pinned excel icon

     

    I'm not a fan myself of mixing metro with desktop...  But starting an application really isn't the problem.  The vast, vast majority of the people actually don't use the startmenu to do that (unless it is through the 'search' functionality hidden in the start menu, which is still there - it just looks different but works in the exact same fashion).

    Also, I don't see why microsoft would ever want to ditch the desktop nore have I ever seen or heared anything from msft that even hints in that direction.

     

    Monday, February 6, 2012 9:46 AM
  • Why not give customers what they say they want?

    Because then nothing would ever change and move forward.  Customers want more of the same.  They don't like change.  Innovation = change.

    Not saying I am all pro for metro and stuff...  I remain skeptical for sure.  But surely you can understand that customers should not be the ones deciding where you will take your product?

    Because... customers want more of the same.  If it was upto the customers of microsoft, we'ld by talking about XP service pack 8 instead of windows 8.

    Monday, February 6, 2012 9:52 AM
  • I completely agree with Aroush. If you gave customers the start menu, then they would never adapt to the start screen. Just because something needs adapting-to, doesn't mean that it's not worth it!

    I, personally, was one of those 'few, few people' that actually used the start menu to find programs (not to launch them, for that I pinned to taskbar, which I can still do if I choose to), but I have no problem with, instead of clicking into the start menu, clicking into the start screen.

    Yes I can see that there are things we will lose (for example, if you were following a program path from a browser window) but really with the more powerful search, I don't see that the things we lose - we will need now.

    I still have my reservations about metro, namely the full screen immersive. Right now I have 2 different ie windows open, 6 outlook windows, an access window, 3 excel windows. And it's very handy to be able to have 3 or more on screen at the same time, which snap cannot currently do. I'm hoping a solution pops up for that, but even if it doesn't, I can just run them on desktop like I do now, and be no worse off.

    Microsoft have done a great job of creating an OS that can be whatever people want of it. Tablet user - use metro, Power user, use desktop, there is almost no lost functionality, and once it's finished off and tidied up, I can't wait to see what it can do.

    Monday, February 6, 2012 10:28 AM
  • The removal of the Start Menu is a BIG ‘FAIL’. The Start Screen is a very different way of working from the Start Menu, and the issue for me that I don’t think Microsoft ‘gets’ is understanding that each of a my machines play a different role in my daily life. My main desktop is my workhorse. Its where I need to be as efficient, focused, and productive as possible... and I need the OS to help keep me in ‘flow’ rather than detract me.

    After a week using Win8, the experiential transition between the Start Menu and the busy, colorful, and lively UI metro search desktop is jarring, and in my opinion, is completely unnecessary (especially when all I want to do is open a recently used or pinned app). What I don’t think Microsoft ‘gets’ with respect to this change is that there is an actual benefit to keep my main desktop visible while using the Start Menu. Seeing familiar windows, icons, and open apps in the background while performing a task allows my mind to continue to process and focus on what’s next. But by switching me into the new metro Start Screen, I’m now disrupted by the color, the transition, and the full screen. The experience breaks my concentration and flow, it disrupts my mind and my productivity, rather than helping it.

    I like the ideal of being able to switch into a metro style interface when I’m in a different mode, but I want it on my terms, and should never be forced to do so. The integration of the two by force is unnecessary and feels disorderly. Instead Microsoft should keep both, allow the user to choose, and provide an alternate way of accessing the metro Start Screen.

    Tuesday, February 21, 2012 8:29 PM
  • You should read this.

    http://www.winsupersite.com/content2/tabid/4466/catpath/windows8/topic/windows-8-secrets-understanding-woa-142281

    Don't worry about the familiar desktop.  It will be there.


    Colin Barnhorst Windows 7 Ultimate x64 on DIY with 6GB ram.

    Tuesday, February 21, 2012 8:34 PM
  • You should read this.

    http://www.winsupersite.com/content2/tabid/4466/catpath/windows8/topic/windows-8-secrets-understanding-woa-142281

    Don't worry about the familiar desktop.  It will be there.

    But, for how long?
    Tuesday, February 21, 2012 10:04 PM
  • Chill out.  The desktop is not going anywhere for a long time.  I doubt if even Microsoft knows how long.

    Colin Barnhorst Windows 7 Ultimate x64 on DIY with 6GB ram.

    Tuesday, February 21, 2012 10:07 PM
  • Chill out.  The desktop is not going anywhere for a long time.  I doubt if even Microsoft knows how long.

    The way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if the desktop is phased out by Windows 10 or 11.  If MS follows their 'major release every 3 years' strategy, that's about 7-10 years.
    Tuesday, February 21, 2012 10:14 PM
  • The way what things are going?  Who knows what hardware advances and what form factors will be around by 2020?  Maybe there will a mind-interface and the desktop will be in our heads.  Don't laugh.  By then a smart phone could be an implant.  Who knows?

    Colin Barnhorst Windows 7 Ultimate x64 on DIY with 6GB ram.

    Tuesday, February 21, 2012 10:24 PM
  • The way what things are going?  Who knows what hardware advances and what form factors will be around by 2020?  Maybe there will a mind-interface and the desktop will be in our heads.  Don't laugh.  By then a smart phone could be an implant.  Who knows?

    Just because we don't know the future doesn't mean that Microsoft doesn't have a plan.
    Tuesday, February 21, 2012 10:26 PM
  • Of course they do, but a long range one.  No one knows the details, including MS.  User interfaces will be responses to innovations by hardware manufacturers, which MS isn't.

    Colin Barnhorst Windows 7 Ultimate x64 on DIY with 6GB ram.

    Tuesday, February 21, 2012 11:07 PM