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"Poll - Should Microsoft offer the classic Start Menu in Windows 8?"

    General discussion

  • Here is an article on ZDNet describing the Building Windows 8 blog post about the evolution of the Start Menu.

    http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/microsoft-to-address-windows-8-start-screen-concerns/15243

    The part that I find interesting is the poll at the bottom of the page asking voters to state whether they want a return of the regular Start Menu in Windows 8. As of October 5, 2011 at 8:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 87% of users say "YES." This means that 87% of users want the Start Menu to return.

    Given the results, it seems to me that the dissatisfaction with Metro is not based on a vocal minority, but a general reaction from the public at large. I personally hope that the desktop will be the default UI in the final version of Windows 8 for desktops and laptops, but I have no idea how others feel about it.

    Thursday, October 06, 2011 12:46 AM

All replies

  • Is that really a fair poll when most of those users haven't even tried the new start menu?  If you try it and dislike it or have improvements, that's one thing, but most of the people answering a poll like that are just hesitant to have things change.
    Thursday, October 06, 2011 3:55 AM
  • I don't think the classic start menu should return.  I'ld settle for a redesigned one that doesn't cover up my entire screen.  :-)

    Thursday, October 06, 2011 6:24 AM
  • On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 00:46:24 +0000, mt327000 wrote:

    This means that 87% of users want the Start Menu to return.

    That's not really what it means at all. It means that 87% of the people who
    responded to the poll want that. Those who don't like something are much
    more likely to respond to that kind of question than those who do.


    Paul Adare
    MVP - Identity Lifecycle Manager
    http://www.identit.ca
    Another megabytes the dust.

    Thursday, October 06, 2011 6:41 AM
  • @ mt327000

    I have tested the Preview on a desktop and have really tried to love it.

    I finally gave up - it is unbearable in a professional work environment.

    I will not install the final Windows 8 if I cannot choose for the Windows 7 desktop and Start Menu as my default interface.

    MS stubbornly tries to convince us that we are wrong.

    That is why I uninstalled the Preview once and for all - I will not even look at the coming beta.

    Thursday, October 06, 2011 7:37 AM
  • I think the Start Screen has a way to go yet to be everything Microsoft is telling us it is, but I do believe that it has the potential to be far better than the Start Menu ever could have been.
    Thursday, October 06, 2011 8:16 AM
  • I'm not entirely sure respondents to a poll on ZDnet quite constitutes "the public at large". I'm also pretty sure that you'd have seen a similar response to the question "Should Program Manager be put back in Windows 95" during the '95 betas, yet you don't see anyone fighting to have that back these days.

    16 years ago the Start menu was a fantastic idea but it's time has come and gone, it's notable that it's precursor the Apple Menu on the Mac has long since disappeared from the OS X UI and you don't see too many people worrying about that any more either.

    Thursday, October 06, 2011 8:36 AM
  • I've yet to hear a good reason why you can't have both in Windows 8.  Wouldn't that solve the issue for everyone?

    The Metro interface is useless on a non-touch computer and the Windows 7 Start Menu is as useless on a touch device.  Not sure how Microsoft can't see that both are desirable to have, but at this point they seemed hell bent to only offer a cell phone interface for desktop/laptop users.

    Thursday, October 06, 2011 1:13 PM
  • New UI is useless disregarding touch or not, is simply sucks.
    Thursday, October 06, 2011 4:10 PM
  • I think they shouldn't offer it. I think the Start Screen with many improvements will work very well for every user.

    But I think when the beta comes out, then it will be the moment to make the "final poll" about it.

    • Edited by jahXP Thursday, October 06, 2011 4:25 PM
    Thursday, October 06, 2011 4:23 PM
  • Hello to all,

    I hope they do not use the old start menu. As I said in another post, They should have a Metro tile quick launch in the taskbar to take you to your Metro tiles where you can have quick access to any webpage photo's or folder you desire, just one click away. Just my opinion.

    Thursday, October 06, 2011 5:59 PM
  • Most of my friends outside of the IT field have never heard of ZDNet but lots of them have computers so saying 'Public at large' is stretching things a bit.

    I have heard of ZDNet and I wouldn't bother voting in any online survey unless it was directly from the company concerned. If MS polled to see if we like Metro they would get a yes from me.

    I think there's room for improvement in the Start Screen but I expect some rough edges in a developer preview. MS have given us an early opportunity to see W8 so they're probably expecting some flak and I believe it's right to do so... as long as you are constructive, so explaining how it could be made better for you or why it disrupts your current workflow is great, saying you'll never touch (pun intended) Win8 when it's released or saying it blows (as some commentators have) doesn't help at all.

    I'm eagerly awaiting the next update to the Start Screen blog and indeed the beta W8 to see how this pans out.

    For the record I hope they do make the Win7 Start menu available as an option not just for Corporates (who's end users don't deal with 'change' very well) but for anyone who would be happier with the old style. I look forward to Windows9 when it all starts over again regarding MS taking away our beloved Start Screen for whatever new idea they come up with.


    Acer W500 tablet Ageing HP laptop Too much apple stuff
    Thursday, October 06, 2011 6:22 PM
  • Even I don't think that Microsoft HAS to offer the classic Start Menu in order for Windows 8 to work well, but the Desktop needs to be Windows 8's primary UI for desktops and laptops, and the Start Screen can't conver up the entire screen every time I open it. If it does cover the screen, like it does in the current build of Windows 8, it will be an annoyance and a distraction, and offer very little benefits, as its search feature doesn't seem to work as well as the Start Search in Windows Vista/7.
    Thursday, October 06, 2011 7:01 PM
  • Just a quick update on the poll: as of 10/6/11 at 3:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, the poll now has an 88%/12% split, with 88% of voters favoring the return of the regular Start Menu.
    Thursday, October 06, 2011 7:02 PM
  • Hello to all,
     
    I hope they do not use the old start menu. As I said in another post, They should have a Metro tile quick launch in the taskbar to take you to your Metro tiles where you can have quick access to any webpage photo's or folder you desire, just one click away. Just my opinion.
    Isn't that what we have in the Developer Preview, except that the "Metro tile quick launch" is where the old Start button used to be?
     
    If the "Metro tile quick launch" were placed immediately to the right of the old Start Button (as the first pinned item on the taskbar) then we could have both. I really do not see what is wrong with this "double start button" solution.
     

    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP
    Thursday, October 06, 2011 8:44 PM
  • I think that the Metro UI is great for touch devices and for the general consumer, but for the workplace there needs to be a toggle to go back to the classic start menu, but still retain the new explorer ribbon, task manager, and other new features. Also, for RDP sessions, the Metro UI is completely unusable due to the nature of how RDP works.
    Thursday, October 06, 2011 10:12 PM
  • I think that the Metro UI is great for touch devices and for the general consumer, but for the workplace there needs to be a toggle to go back to the classic start menu, but still retain the new explorer ribbon, task manager, and other new features. Also, for RDP sessions, the Metro UI is completely unusable due to the nature of how RDP works.

    Looking at the Metro UI from a consumer standpoint, it doesn't seem so great for regular customers, either. Hiding the computer in a "desktop" box may work well for some usage scenarios, but when I use Windows 8, the first thing I do is open the desktop, and very rarely do I leave it. Your're right in saying that there needs to be a way to restore the regular Start Menu.
    Thursday, October 06, 2011 11:03 PM
  • I think that the Metro UI is great for touch devices and for the general consumer, but for the workplace there needs to be a toggle to go back to the classic start menu, but still retain the new explorer ribbon, task manager, and other new features. Also, for RDP sessions, the Metro UI is completely unusable due to the nature of how RDP works.

    Josh, could you give more detail on issues with RDP (maybe in a dedicated thread) I'm interested as my daily work role involves using multiple RDP sessions (from win7). I'd give it a try but our company policy won't let me connect a win8 tablet until it's been 'vetted' (very unlikely this  early on in the process).
    Acer W500 tablet Ageing HP laptop Too much apple stuff
    Thursday, October 06, 2011 11:15 PM
  • Yes most definitely yes. The Start Menu should be allowed for use with the mouse and keyboard without disabling the Start Screen for touch. Choice is what MADE Windows successful for previous versions.
    Thursday, October 13, 2011 5:59 AM
  • The start screen is great i dont think they sould get the old start menu back. This one is fine microsoft has to tweak it the an the like grouping app and the ability to be customisable
    Friday, October 14, 2011 12:49 AM
  • You know, when I read the comments so far, it occurs to me that people are perhaps NOT really using the way the new system is meant for keyboard / mouse users.

     

    I do NOT have a touchscreen monitor and I AM a professional developer as well as a home consumer user. At home, I installed Windows 8 to be my main OS and in the beginning I was LOST, CONFUSED, and just went nuts for a few days.

     

    Then I saw the light. :)

     

    Please bear with me, and try this.

    When Windows 8 boots and you log in - in the beginning I found myself automatically clicking the desktop from the metro UI so I could get myself into my familiar environment. Then I realized that whoops! I can't just select my programs that I want to run! It then occurred to me then that I just needed to do what I do at work - when I want to fire up say SQL Management Studio I type SSMS or even better SQL and its in my list on the start menu.

    I hit the Windows key to go back to the metro UI which remember IS the START MENU! Treat it as such!

    In Windows 7 - you hit the windows key - you can either IMMEDIATELY start typing (as your cursor IS in the search box) or you can use your mouse to navigate the menu or quick launch an application. IT IS NO DIFFERENT in Windows 8.

    So when you see your Metro UI and you want to play a game of RAGE (like I do... :) ) I just type rage and BANG my game is there and I'm off and running. After awhile, RAGE will show up on my start menu to the right (if you allow Steam to put an icon for RAGE in the GAMES menu) You can move the ICON for you programs to the left so it will be prominent to you without having to navigate the menu to the right.

    The other thing that really threw me was I didn't think that the search functionality was working right - and found that if I start typing then just BLANK the search I will a LIST of ALL my applications that are installed. This can help some people. :)

    Switching between applications is a breeze. Just move your mouse pointer to the far left middle of the screen and use your scroll mouse to flip through when the preview shows up.

     

    I admit that at first I was like "are you nuts?!" then I see where they are going - and believe me - it is the right path. If you are a keyboard / mouse person (which most of us on this forum are) - use your keyboard! Want to start up Word? Type Wo and you will see a few categories listed (apps / settings) select Apps and you will see it listed.

     

    I hope this helps others.

     

    =-Chris

     

    Friday, October 14, 2011 3:03 AM
  • You know, when I read the comments so far, it occurs to me that people are perhaps NOT really using the way the new system is meant for keyboard / mouse users.

     

    I do NOT have a touchscreen monitor and I AM a professional developer as well as a home consumer user. At home, I installed Windows 8 to be my main OS and in the beginning I was LOST, CONFUSED, and just went nuts for a few days.

     

    Then I saw the light. :)

     

    Please bear with me, and try this.

    When Windows 8 boots and you log in - in the beginning I found myself automatically clicking the desktop from the metro UI so I could get myself into my familiar environment. Then I realized that whoops! I can't just select my programs that I want to run! It then occurred to me then that I just needed to do what I do at work - when I want to fire up say SQL Management Studio I type SSMS or even better SQL and its in my list on the start menu.

    I hit the Windows key to go back to the metro UI which remember IS the START MENU! Treat it as such!

    In Windows 7 - you hit the windows key - you can either IMMEDIATELY start typing (as your cursor IS in the search box) or you can use your mouse to navigate the menu or quick launch an application. IT IS NO DIFFERENT in Windows 8.

    So when you see your Metro UI and you want to play a game of RAGE (like I do... :) ) I just type rage and BANG my game is there and I'm off and running. After awhile, RAGE will show up on my start menu to the right (if you allow Steam to put an icon for RAGE in the GAMES menu) You can move the ICON for you programs to the left so it will be prominent to you without having to navigate the menu to the right.

    The other thing that really threw me was I didn't think that the search functionality was working right - and found that if I start typing then just BLANK the search I will a LIST of ALL my applications that are installed. This can help some people. :)

    Switching between applications is a breeze. Just move your mouse pointer to the far left middle of the screen and use your scroll mouse to flip through when the preview shows up.

     

    I admit that at first I was like "are you nuts?!" then I see where they are going - and believe me - it is the right path. If you are a keyboard / mouse person (which most of us on this forum are) - use your keyboard! Want to start up Word? Type Wo and you will see a few categories listed (apps / settings) select Apps and you will see it listed.

     

    I hope this helps others.

     

    =-Chris

     


    I would like to add that the lack of "apps" and such makes the new "Start Menu" pretty much useless.  Once Windows 8 is fleshed out a little bit, I really think that the new "Start Menu" will be highly liked by the general consumer.

    I admit that I prefer the Desktop mode right now, but as I use W8 more, I really like the OS.  Currently I us it on a Dell Duo (which it almost feels that W8 was designed just for this machine, lol) and a Dell desktop dual monitor setup.  I like it because I really feel like that I got two OSs to work with depending on my need at the time.

    Anyway, my feeling is that you should just be patient and learn to love the new OS because this is the future of Windows.

    Friday, October 14, 2011 4:26 AM
  • My ideal solution is similar to when the mouse is hovered over the bottom of the Windows key, though as a click, and with one last entry for Metro UI or whatever they want to call it (Home?), and possibly one for Apps, although just clicking search then clicking in the general area works fine. Still, it seems like MS is pushing too hard in the direction they want consumers to.

     

    A full start menu seems unnecessary. A miniaturized one should be upsetting enough to push users towards their end goal.

    Friday, October 14, 2011 4:36 AM
  • I admit that at first I was like "are you nuts?!" then I see where they are going - and believe me - it is the right path. If you are a keyboard / mouse person (which most of us on this forum are) - use your keyboard!
    But if you are primarily a mouse person, the old Start menu is much much better.
     

    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP
    Friday, October 14, 2011 10:07 AM
  • I admit that at first I was like "are you nuts?!" then I see where they are going - and believe me - it is the right path. If you are a keyboard / mouse person (which most of us on this forum are) - use your keyboard!
    But if you are primarily a mouse person, the old Start menu is much much better.
     

    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP


    WE are "mouse persons all the way" and all of my customer/users are.

    That is why Windows 8 will never come on my systems.

    The Windows 8 start screen is:
    - a copy of the Windows Phone 7 interface that (almost) nobody wants
    - ugly to look at
    - full screen oriented - not windows oriented anymore
    - MUCH too obstrusive
    - Against everything we (the loyal users) have asked for - their telemetry must have been hacked by competition

    Anyway : Windows 8 = never never never on my desktops/laptops unless MS allows me to boot my machines right into the desktop-interface with the Windows 7 start-menu.

    I WORK with my machines - I do not watch content (news, wheather, stock-exchange, facebook, ...) all day, nor do I play games with them.
    My staff has to WORK for my company, not linger on the Internet for all kinds of personal reasons.

    We have had Windows on our machines since Windows 1 (1985?)
    We have had about all the versions of Windows (1-2-3-3.11-95-98-XP-Vista-7)
    But going back to the dark (full screen) ages with Windows 8 = NEVER !

    Friday, October 14, 2011 11:09 AM
  • I admit that at first I was like "are you nuts?!" then I see where they are going - and believe me - it is the right path. If you are a keyboard / mouse person (which most of us on this forum are) - use your keyboard!
    But if you are primarily a mouse person, the old Start menu is much much better.
     

    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP


    WE are "mouse persons all the way" and all of my customer/users are.

    That is why Windows 8 will never come on my systems.

    The Windows 8 start screen is:
    - a copy of the Windows Phone 7 interface that (almost) nobody wants
    - ugly to look at
    - full screen oriented - not windows oriented anymore
    - MUCH too obstrusive
    - Against everything we (the loyal users) have asked for - their telemetry must have been hacked by competition

    Anyway : Windows 8 = never never never on my desktops/laptops unless MS allows me to boot my machines right into the desktop-interface with the Windows 7 start-menu.

    I WORK with my machines - I do not watch content (news, wheather, stock-exchange, facebook, ...) all day, nor do I play games with them.
    My staff has to WORK for my company, not linger on the Internet for all kinds of personal reasons.

    We have had Windows on our machines since Windows 1 (1985?)
    We have had about all the versions of Windows (1-2-3-3.11-95-98-XP-Vista-7)
    But going back to the dark (full screen) ages with Windows 8 = NEVER !


    Its all about moving on and besides the desktop is still there, if only Microsoft can make you choose whether to boot in to the desktop or the start screen  and all is well, and about the full  screen oriented thing it good because we are living in a Plasma, LED, 52 inch 42inch world so companies are adopting the full screen thing. would it be great to plug you pc on your 42 inch and start on the start screen of windows 8 :-) not that tiny thing that pops up on the bottom left coner. "Change is good but is can be scary at firts"
    Friday, October 14, 2011 11:46 AM
  • You know, when I read the comments so far, it occurs to me that people are perhaps NOT really using the way the new system is meant for keyboard / mouse users.

     

    I do NOT have a touchscreen monitor and I AM a professional developer as well as a home consumer user. At home, I installed Windows 8 to be my main OS and in the beginning I was LOST, CONFUSED, and just went nuts for a few days.

     

    Then I saw the light. :)

     

    Please bear with me, and try this.

    When Windows 8 boots and you log in - in the beginning I found myself automatically clicking the desktop from the metro UI so I could get myself into my familiar environment. Then I realized that whoops! I can't just select my programs that I want to run! It then occurred to me then that I just needed to do what I do at work - when I want to fire up say SQL Management Studio I type SSMS or even better SQL and its in my list on the start menu.

    I hit the Windows key to go back to the metro UI which remember IS the START MENU! Treat it as such!

    In Windows 7 - you hit the windows key - you can either IMMEDIATELY start typing (as your cursor IS in the search box) or you can use your mouse to navigate the menu or quick launch an application. IT IS NO DIFFERENT in Windows 8.

    So when you see your Metro UI and you want to play a game of RAGE (like I do... :) ) I just type rage and BANG my game is there and I'm off and running. After awhile, RAGE will show up on my start menu to the right (if you allow Steam to put an icon for RAGE in the GAMES menu) You can move the ICON for you programs to the left so it will be prominent to you without having to navigate the menu to the right.

    The other thing that really threw me was I didn't think that the search functionality was working right - and found that if I start typing then just BLANK the search I will a LIST of ALL my applications that are installed. This can help some people. :)

    Switching between applications is a breeze. Just move your mouse pointer to the far left middle of the screen and use your scroll mouse to flip through when the preview shows up.

     

    I admit that at first I was like "are you nuts?!" then I see where they are going - and believe me - it is the right path. If you are a keyboard / mouse person (which most of us on this forum are) - use your keyboard! Want to start up Word? Type Wo and you will see a few categories listed (apps / settings) select Apps and you will see it listed.

     

    I hope this helps others.

     

    =-Chris

     

    Chris, I applaud your enthusiasm and willingness to share your experience.  It seems something clicked for you and things are working well for you.  Unfortunately for me, things have not clicked and I find I despise Metro and Windows 8 the more I use it.  The problem I have "is" that the Metro UI is the new start menu.  Having a screen full of huge square boxes to page/scroll through is very disfunctional for me.  I have never, (ever), used the search box in Windows 7 and feel it's ridiculous to use it in Windows 8 as the primary way to find my apps.  I should never have to search for my apps.  If I have to search for them, then the menu really isn't offering the functionality a menu should.

    I'm also displeased that all the various accessories, admin tools, etc. aren't on the Metro interface either and you have to search for those.  Or that it's not quick and easy to add new shortcuts to Metro for things like portable apps.  (Seriously, I can't just right click and say "add new tile" in Metro?)  Basically with Windows 8 it seems we are expected to search for everything now.  That just plain sucks.  I want every app available to click on and don't want to search for anything.  I want everything from notepad, registry editor, to all the dozens of installed apps on my menu.  Doing this in Metro is a joke and the solution seems to be what you found works for you, and that is to 'search' for them and not actually "use" Metro as a menu.

    I dont want to have to leave my currently running application to jump back over to Metro to start searching for a 2nd app to run.  How on earth is that functional when compared to the Windows 7 Start Menu?  In Windows 7 if I want to run a 2nd, or 3rd, etc. app, I don't have to leave anything and I don't have to search for anything.  I simply click the already visible start menu and use it.  No searching or keyboarding required.

    We have 10,000 computers in our environment and as it is, the Metro interface would be a nightmare for us to implement.  We do not have a single touch screen device.  Clearly Metro is designed for touch screens since it has its' roots from a cell phone interface.  Microsoft can "blame the user" all they want and tell us to "go to training" until they are blue in the face.  But it doesn't change the experience for the users, nor does it help with our IT department and the significant amount of additional support and hand holding required to implement something that works worse than what we already have.  The Windows 7 style menu we've been using for ump-ting years works!  This isn't about change, or fear of change.  It's about functionality and interruption in work flow within a massive environment.  Why should we be expected to spend a truckload of money to re-train all levels of users because Microsoft is too bull headed to admit what they've done?

    But what makes the least amount of sense to me in this whole "I love it" and "I hate it" discussion is why the hell can't we have both a Start Menu in the Desktop interface and the Metro interface?  Isn't more functionality and options better than fewer?  I submit to you and Microsoft that it is "Microsoft" that is looking at this wrong, not me.

     

    Friday, October 14, 2011 1:16 PM
  • KHemmelman, I hear what you are saying. :)

     

    I would agree that having a start menu like Windows 7 in the desktop would be a good thing. I do not know where in the end is Microsoft going with the Metro UI. What I DO know is that the target for this build of Windows 8 is geared for people like me who write applications. Microsoft WANTS us (developers that is) to interact with and design Metro apps - hence the "in your face" view of Metro. :)

     

    An option I would like to see is when I create a user (non domain in this case) I can have the option to specify the default desktop environment.

     

    In the end, people need to be honest with themselves (it was hard for me too) and admit that at most they are going to run what? 20 unique applications at most? I primarily run 10 unique applications at most - the rest I don't need to be bothered with. If I need them, such as the local group policy editor, I'll just type gpedit.msc. :) For those 10, I just PIN them so they show up on the start menu. No searching, no mush, no fusss.

     

    I realize that people are very passionate about it - but take for example Site-Jumper. Instead of pinning his applications to the start menu so that his users can just click on the application they need, he will forgo Windows 8. In the Metro UI, I can have ONE click to launch my application. With Windows 7, I have to CLICK the start menu, then CLICK the application if it isn't already in the list of common used apps.

     

    For those of you who say you are primarily mouse users, that isn't really the issue. I cannot believe that you will use an on-screen keyboard and use your mouse to click the letters when you need to have something typed out. Jokes aside, I am just saying that the mouse / keyboard is a dual thing - you really do use both.

     

    =-Chris

     

    Friday, October 14, 2011 2:06 PM
  • Chris, your point is well taken.  However, looking at how Metro apps run, I'm actually hoping that none of the apps I currently run ever port over to be a 'Metro' version.  The problem is they must run full screen, you can't have multiple apps on screen running at the same time, they get suspended when you run a different Metro apps, and you can apparently only pin 2 apps, with one only taking up 25% of the screen.

    If for example my Adobe Lightroom became a Metro app and I now want to export 1,000 photos from a photo shoot, it seems that I have to leave Lightroom up on the screen and not use my computer to do anything else while that process is running.  Currently because I know this takes time to do in Lightroom on my pc, I would switch over to read some emails, browse the internet, or even pull up a quick game or listen to music while waiting.  I suppose the solution is to just don't buy Metro apps and continue to run my current apps in Desktop interface.  But that's the problem.  I don't have a functional menu in Desktop interface where I'll be doing 100% my work.  To run all these other apps in desktop interface I don't want to pin 50 shortcuts to my taskbar or clutter up my entire desktop background with shortcuts galore.  And I don't want to constantly have to leave desktop interface to go searching for a shortcut in Metro only to have it switch back to desktop interface when the app runs.  (That's just silly.)  The Windows 7 style start menu in Desktop keeps all my shortcuts conveniently organize and out of the way but always there when I need them.  So this is why it makes no sense to me why Microsoft can't realize there is a use for the start menu in the desktop interface but they're choosing to remove it and upset half their client base.  Why not offer both?  (Did they really think it was successful marketing strategy with Vista and the bad rap it got?  I know that Vista wasn't that bad, but because of the bad rap it immediately got, nobody wanted it.  Heck, we choose to completely skip it in our corporate environment because of that.  I have to think Windows 8 is going to end up with an equally bad rap regardless of the merits and no amount of blogs explaining how many pixels my mouse travels and why that is justification to remove the functional start menu is going to change the impression people have.)

    Friday, October 14, 2011 3:08 PM
  • Chris, your point is well taken.  However, looking at how Metro apps run, I'm actually hoping that none of the apps I currently run ever port over to be a 'Metro' version.  The problem is they must run full screen, you can't have multiple apps on screen running at the same time, they get suspended when you run a different Metro apps, and you can apparently only pin 2 apps, with one only taking up 25% of the screen.

    If for example my Adobe Lightroom became a Metro app and I now want to export 1,000 photos from a photo shoot, it seems that I have to leave Lightroom up on the screen and not use my computer to do anything else while that process is running.  Currently because I know this takes time to do in Lightroom on my pc, I would switch over to read some emails, browse the internet, or even pull up a quick game or listen to music while waiting.  I suppose the solution is to just don't buy Metro apps and continue to run my current apps in Desktop interface.  But that's the problem.  I don't have a functional menu in Desktop interface where I'll be doing 100% my work.  To run all these other apps in desktop interface I don't want to pin 50 shortcuts to my taskbar or clutter up my entire desktop background with shortcuts galore.  And I don't want to constantly have to leave desktop interface to go searching for a shortcut in Metro only to have it switch back to desktop interface when the app runs.  (That's just silly.)  The Windows 7 style start menu in Desktop keeps all my shortcuts conveniently organize and out of the way but always there when I need them.  So this is why it makes no sense to me why Microsoft can't realize there is a use for the start menu in the desktop interface but they're choosing to remove it and upset half their client base.  Why not offer both?  (Did they really think it was successful marketing strategy with Vista and the bad rap it got?  I know that Vista wasn't that bad, but because of the bad rap it immediately got, nobody wanted it.  Heck, we choose to completely skip it in our corporate environment because of that.  I have to think Windows 8 is going to end up with an equally bad rap regardless of the merits and no amount of blogs explaining how many pixels my mouse travels and why that is justification to remove the functional start menu is going to change the impression people have.)


    Your thoughts on having to leave working tasks on screen are not correct.

    Multitasking is still there, it's just that Metro apps will have their life-cycle managed by the scheduler a little more proactively. There is an option there (and I don't even have to go look and double-check) for apps to say "I'm running an important calculation, don't suspend me without a darn good reason".

    Good reason may constitute the user launching RAGE.

    Friday, October 14, 2011 3:21 PM
  • HonestFlames, if you are correct about apps that are actively doing something will not get suspended when you switch to a different app, then thank you for that info and the correction.  This is a pretty important piece of information and misconception I, and many others have about multitasking with Metro apps!

    Unfortunately it doesn't change my opinion of how disfunctional the Metro interface is or make me feel better about the start menu being removed from the desktop interface though.  It seems obvious there's no sense me crying about it anymore though because it's pretty clear at this point Microsoft isn't willing to put a functional start menu in the desktop interface.

    Friday, October 14, 2011 4:16 PM
  • HonestFlames, what is your source for this information? Everything that I have seen is that only certain system-defined functions (such as downloading files and playing music) will be able to continue when an app is suspended. An app does NOT have the capability to continue running arbitrary code when it is not in the foreground.

    Moreover, even if that capability exists, that does NOT constitute multitasking. Application developers should not be responsible for deciding whether the functionality of an application is important enough to run in the background or not; that should be for the USER to decide.


    Moderator | MCTS .NET 2.0 Web Applications | My Blog: http://www.commongenius.com
    Friday, October 14, 2011 4:57 PM
  • Chris,

    "In the end, people need to be honest with themselves (it was hard for me too) and admit that at most they are going to run what? 20 unique applications at most?"

    You're kidding right? I have 15 applications pinned to my taskbar, and those are just the ones that I use all day every day; and that doesn't even include several applications that I can't pin because they are ClickOnce or Citrix deployed. This also doesn't count the dozen or so programs from the Control Panel and the obscure programs from the Visual Studio SDK that I don't necessarily care about having 1-click access to, but I need on a fairly regular basis and want to be able to reach easily when I need them without interrupting my workflow. It also doesn't count the half a dozen or so icons I have in my notification area that I use to interact with always-running applications (Greenshot, Rescue Time, Symantec, Pidgin, etc). Even Microsoft's own metric that users run an AVERAGE of 50+ unique applications over the course of several months (http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/10/11/reflecting-on-your-comments-on-the-start-screen.aspx); which means there are a lot of people that run a lot more than that.

    "In the Metro UI, I can have ONE click to launch my application."

    No you don't, because first you have to bring up the Start Screen, which is going to take over your entire screen just for the sake of launching a single application. That IS less efficient, and no one has yet managed to make a convincing argument otherwise.


    Moderator | MCTS .NET 2.0 Web Applications | My Blog: http://www.commongenius.com
    Friday, October 14, 2011 5:13 PM
  • I love it. My opinion is if you are not seeing the vision then you cannot see the future. This is the future of computing.

    Of course this is just my opinion.


    Thanks,
    Bobby Cannon
    BobbyCannon.com
    Friday, October 14, 2011 6:17 PM
  • @Bobby

    I love Metro too, but I think rather than being the 'future of computing' it's the opposite, it's 'the end of computing and the dawn of the application appliance' - a device you pick up to do some browsing, email, write a document, balance your cheque book. 

    Red wine kicking in... cue melancholy...

    IT people have lost the 'Computer', it's been appropriated by a zillion home users and consumers and MS and Apple et al are now playing to a new audience and their old fans will be saying 'I remember <insert company name>, when they did proper WIMP systems' with a tear in their eye.

    Seriously though, A lot of people on here have valid issues with W8 and I'll bet a lot of them have been through a number of 'Visions' and 'Futures' and they're still here to raise issues with the 'latest thing' and no doubt they'll be here for the next one too. I wouldn't accuse them of being short sighted, if anything they are trying to use their own far sightedness to keep MS in touch with reality and not let the Marketing department get carried away with this years hot topic. 


    Acer W500 tablet & dock, New 'works' Lenovo laptop Too much apple stuff. Remember: A Developer Preview is just that, a preview for developers - not everything will work 'just right' on day 1.
    Friday, October 14, 2011 9:06 PM
  • Initial Feedback on Windows 8

    1) Metro start "menu" (?) takes up to much space

    2) Task manager to close apps - you have got to be kidding?

    3) My work environment is not webcentric.  This OS asumes we all work in the "cloud".  Not so.

    4) I use my mouse to navigate - I only type in applications, so typing to find and open applications goes against the grain even though I like the search apps dodad.

    5) This OS really isn't for the corporate environment is it?

    6) Why not the Windows 7 Start menu and Metro?

    7) Where are the mouse gestures?

    Saturday, February 18, 2012 7:45 AM
  • @tenaswawa

    Those are familiar complaints. They are very close to what I thought of the product (though I'm not sure it makes sense to have the Start Screen and the Start Menu on the same desktop). It might work for Metro-style apps, however.

    Saturday, February 18, 2012 2:08 PM
  • Those are familiar complaints. They are very close to what I thought of the product (though I'm not sure it makes sense to have the Start Screen and the Start Menu on the same desktop). It might work for Metro-style apps, however.

    I'm not sure I understand your comment. I thought tenaswawa was merely suggesting that the Start Button should display the Start Menu as in Windows 7, and the Metro interface could be reached by some other method (charm bar, Start Button context menu, item on the Start Menu...).

    This I think is what many of us would have liked (or thought we would have liked). But we have to see how it all works in the Consumer Preview, which is rumored to have removed the Start Button altogether.


    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP

    Saturday, February 18, 2012 3:15 PM
  • Basically, I'm saying that it doesn't make sense to be able to open the Start Screen from a desktop that contains the Start Menu. It would be redundant and unnecessary. However, to avoid confusion, I pointed out that Metro-style apps should still be usable (with the option to switch between windowed and full-screen) even if the Start Screen is not present.

    Windows should include the option to choose either the Start Menu or the Start Screen, but it makes no sense to have both at the same time.

    Saturday, February 18, 2012 4:13 PM
  • Windows should include the option to choose either the Start Menu or the Start Screen, but it makes no sense to have both at the same time.

    I disagree. I see nothing wrong with having both the Start Screen and the Start Menu, though I would prefer not to have desktop programs on the Start Screen.

    Start Menu and pinned Taskbar items -- Launch desktop programs

    Start Screen -- Launch Metro programs

    But this is clearly not Microsoft's plan...


    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP

    Saturday, February 18, 2012 4:25 PM
  • Start Menu and pinned Taskbar items -- Launch desktop programs

    Start Screen -- Launch Metro programs

    But this is clearly not Microsoft's plan...


    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP


    I don't see any reason for Windows to include two Start Menus. The idea is to make Windows feel less like an operating system split in two, not more. Besides, what if there was a Metro app that I wanted to use on my desktop? I would rather launch it from the Start Menu and run it in a window than use it in the full-screen mode.
    Saturday, February 18, 2012 4:33 PM
  • So you have a desktop and on that desktop are a load of icons for starting programs. There are two problems, first the desktop disappears under open programs and second, it does not contain some secondary, hardware or system specific applications. For these we need to open the 'Start' menu. Now what if we could have a single menu with which to start any installed or system application. Well, we have, it's called the Metro Start screen.

    Unfortunately there is a problem with the Metro Start screen. It is inflexible and was only designed for the small screen area of phones and pads. On a desktop the icons are unescessarily large on a now fairly standard 22 inch monitor. If it were possible to resize the Metro icons the something resembling the existing desktop icons (and still be able to be arranged) then this would reduce or eliminate any scrolling.

    Does that make sense?

    Saturday, February 18, 2012 5:56 PM
  • That would not work because the Start Screen has no MFU list, nor does it link to "Computer," "Documents," "Pictures," the username folder, etc.
    Saturday, February 18, 2012 7:08 PM
  • Do you use the MFU list? I don't. The ones I use most are on the taskbar. In any case, arrange them on the Start screen how you will.

    The Start screen is only for launching programs, apps (call them what you will). If I want to navigate the Computer or user files and folders then I use Windows Explorer.

    When I first saw the Metro start screen I did not like it. I still don't but the main reason is the large size of the icons on a computer monitor. I also did not like the sheer number of icons created when installing a program. If we are stuck with the Metro start screen (and it looks as though we are) then I would be prepared to turn it to my advantage IF the size of the icons were user defined.

    Saturday, February 18, 2012 8:50 PM
  • Yes, I use the MFU list. I do not use pinned programs on the Taskbar. The links on the Start Menu are a faster way of opening folders than trying to use the Explorer button on the taskbar.
    Saturday, February 18, 2012 9:00 PM
  • I guess this just proves that we all have our own way of doing things. When considering the title of this thread then, yes, I would like the W7 start menu to remain. However, in view of the imminent release of the beta it is rather like discussing the sharpness of the blade before the axe falls.
    Saturday, February 18, 2012 9:18 PM
  • It depends. If the final version of Windows 8 is configurable enough and retains the Start Menu, this may end up being a non-issue.
    Saturday, February 18, 2012 11:39 PM
  • As I mentioned in one of the other threads, I think Microsoft intends on not just killing the Start Menu, but the Desktop itself.   Windows 8 is a transitional product.  I would not be surprised if by Windows 9 or 10, the desktop is removed from the product.
    Sunday, February 19, 2012 1:17 AM
  • As I mentioned in one of the other threads, I think Microsoft intends on not just killing the Start Menu, but the Desktop itself.   Windows 8 is a transitional product.  I would not be surprised if by Windows 9 or 10, the desktop is removed from the product.

    Maybe, but it depends on how well Metro does in the real world. I'm sure that everyone at Microsoft is excited about all of the possibilities with Metro, but consumers and developers may have other ideas.

    By retaining all of the regular Windows programs and utilities in the desktop and by not creating a Metro version of Office 15, Microsoft has basically admitted that Metro can't replace the desktop.

    Sunday, February 19, 2012 1:28 AM
  • Maybe, but it depends on how well Metro does in the real world. I'm sure that everyone at Microsoft is excited about all of the possibilities with Metro, but consumers and developers may have other ideas.

    By retaining all of the regular Windows programs and utilities in the desktop and by not creating a Metro version of Office 15, Microsoft has basically admitted that Metro can't replace the desktop.


    I think the reason why there isn't a Metro version of Office 15 is because Microsoft is scrambling to keep up, and there simply isn't enough time to rewrite all of Office in time for Win8's release. 
    Sunday, February 19, 2012 1:33 AM
  • I don't know if that's true or not, but very few other Windows features have Metro-style equivalents. Those programs that do have Metro-style versions are vastly underpowered and incapable compared to their desktop equivalents.
    Sunday, February 19, 2012 1:43 AM
  • I would not be surprised if by Windows 9 or 10, the desktop is removed from the product.

    Nah, that will never happen.  Do you really think that windows 11 will be developed in a metro app?  Seriously... never gonna happen.

    The way I see it is that this WinRT is the first step in fixing something that's been broken for the past 15 years: win32.

    If you read the post on the "building windows 8" blog about ARM and the desktop, you can read that between the lines.  What I expect to happen in windows 9 is WinRT being extended to desktop applications.  These desktop applications will be sandboxed, deliverable through the store AND they'll run on both x86 and ARM.  By windows 11, the desktop will still be there.  What won't be there is win32.

    .NET will be killed.  Silverlight will be killed.  WPF will be killed.  Winforms will be killed.

    All of those things will be replaced by native applications using WinRT.  The languages used will be C#, C++ and native XAML.

    I really believe that this is the most likely scenario.  And to be honest, I hope that I'm right.  Because that would make windows really an amazing product with a great unified application model.

    Sunday, February 19, 2012 11:22 AM
  • I'm positive that there will be Metro versions of certain office apps like word, excel and powerpoint.

    However, I'm 110% certain that these apps will be seriously crippled/dumbed down.

    Just open up excel...  Look at that ribbon.  Look at the amount of commands exposed.  Look at all that functionality.  Place a finger on a ribbon group: you're touching 5 commands.  In a metro app, all those commands will need to tripple in size and be spaced further apart for decent fat finger control.

    Following 'metro style' best practices, all those commands should be put in the app-bar as well.

    There simply is no way that can work while retaining FULL functionality.

    When I look at the applications we develop at work...  I feel the same applies.  There simply is no way that we could fit ALL that functionality in a metro app.  No way at all.

    We can, however, create a 'companion' app for those applications using metro.  We can, however, move specific functionalities from the desktop app to the metro app (like for example a reporting system, which would be great on a tablet in touch-first metro style).

    But seriously, I don't see how it would EVER work to take applications like Autocad, 3dmax, photoshop, word, excel, visual studio, cubase and countless other big production applications and fit them into a metro app meant for a small(ish) screen controlled with fat fingers.

    Ever.

    Sunday, February 19, 2012 11:31 AM
  • Yes, I use the MFU list. I do not use pinned programs on the Taskbar. The links on the Start Menu are a faster way of opening folders than trying to use the Explorer button on the taskbar.
    In Windows 7, rather than the MFU list, I pin programs to the Start Menu.
     
    Frequently used programs -- pin to Taskbar
    Less frquently used programs -- pin to Start Menu
    Rarely used programs -- use All Programs on Start Menu
     
    With the loss of the Start Menu in Windows 8, I have been using the desktop (which I never do in Windows 7). I am trying a program called Fences, which organizes the desktop into groups of icons.
     

    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP
    Sunday, February 19, 2012 1:10 PM

  • With the loss of the Start Menu in Windows 8, I have been using the desktop (which I never do in Windows 7). I am trying a program called Fences, which organizes the desktop into groups of icons.
     

    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP

    It's a shame that you have to look for workarounds because the OS is fundamentally flawed.  But that might be intentional on Microsoft's part: make the desktop difficult to work with so that more people switch to Metro.
    Sunday, February 19, 2012 2:54 PM
  • If you read the post on the "building windows 8" blog about ARM and the desktop, you can read that between the lines.  What I expect to happen in windows 9 is WinRT being extended to desktop applications.  These desktop applications will be sandboxed, deliverable through the store AND they'll run on both x86 and ARM.  By windows 11, the desktop will still be there.  What won't be there is win32.


    That's what "Taking WinRT Beyond Metro" means (it's a phrase I used in an e-mail I once sent to Building Windows 8), but Microsoft seems to have no interest in this.
    Sunday, February 19, 2012 4:11 PM
  • It depends. If the final version of Windows 8 is configurable enough and retains the Start Menu, this may end up being a non-issue.
    If the only way to enable the Start Menu is to completely disable the Metro interface and associated aplications, I think it is a very big issue.
     
    I really do not see why Microsoft would implement this, rather than let users have both the Start Menu and Metro.
     

    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP
    Sunday, February 19, 2012 4:50 PM
  • That's why I say "if the final version of Windows 8 is configurable enough." It should be possible to have the Start Menu and Metro-style applications without the Start Screen. Fun fact: The Start Screen is part of the Windows Explorer shell, and Metro-style applications can be run even when the Start Screen doesn't work. If you use Task Manager to disable Explorer (which disables the Start Screen, Charms, the desktop background, taskbar, and the drag-to-cycle functionality), the currently opened Metro-style app will still function. The Task Manager will also stay open on top of the Metro-style app. It may be possible to switch between Metro-style apps and desktop apps once this has been done, but I have not tried this.
    Sunday, February 19, 2012 5:24 PM
  • That's what "Taking WinRT Beyond Metro" means (it's a phrase I used in an e-mail I once sent to Building Windows 8), but Microsoft seems to have no interest in this.

    ...at this time.

    It's quite clear that windows 8 marks not only a new era for microsoft, they also are changing the way they communicate about it to the general public.  Probably a lesson they learned from vista: don't promise or announce stuff before you can actually SHOW something running live code.

    I draw my conclusion based on the desktop being part of ARM but not running ANY win32 app, through emulation or otherwise.

    If the desktop REALLY is on its way out, it wouldn't be a part of ARM. It wouldn't make any sense at all to include it.

    There's also the problem of win32 applications not being part of the store story.  Reason here is simple: win32 is a complete mess.  There are literally hundreds of different installation methods out there.  There are literally hundreds of custom updating systems.  It's spaghetti front to end.

    In the past 15 years, microsoft made multiple attempts at trying to fix it.  The result - every single time- was more spaghetti.

    I see a solution in WinRT and I can't even imagine a scenario where nobody inside microsoft had the same thought.

    Like you said, the idea is to make win8 feel less like 2 seperate systems.  Something which is impossible to do in the long run if WinRT is meant to stay exclusively for metro apps.

    If that were the case, then windows 8 wouldn't have been 'windows'.  Then it would have been a tablet OS next to windows and windows phone.

    I'm ready to put money on that.  :-)

    But, unfortunatly, all of this is pure speculation until we hear msft make official statements about it.

    However, a desktop being included in ARM, with NO tools or means to emulate or port win32 applications, is enough for me to assume that WinRT WILL be brought into the desktop sooner or later.

    Sunday, February 19, 2012 7:04 PM
  • However, a desktop being included in ARM, with NO tools or means to emulate or port win32 applications, is enough for me to assume that WinRT WILL be brought into the desktop sooner or later.

    Office is one of Microsoft's cash cows.  They're not going to release a version of Windows that doesn't include Office in some fashion.  Since there isn't a Metro version of Office yet, the only way they could include Office on ARM is to support the desktop.  As soon as they have a Metro Office, they can drop the desktop on ARM.  Maybe that will be Windows 9. 

    But you're right, this is all just speculation.

    Sunday, February 19, 2012 7:21 PM
  • Office is one of Microsoft's cash cows.  They're not going to release a version of Windows that doesn't include Office in some fashion.  Since there isn't a Metro version of Office yet, the only way they could include Office on ARM is to support the desktop.  As soon as they have a Metro Office, they can drop the desktop on ARM.  Maybe that will be Windows 9. 

    That makes no sense.

    The desktop on ARM is a desktop that does not include win32, since win32 is a x86 application model.

    They necessarily had to rewrite office  from the ground up to make it work on ARM.

    If what you say is true, then why would they put all that work into 1) 'rewrite' the desktop and ALL that is included therein to ARM and 2) 'rewrite' office to make it work on the rewritten desktop.

    It seems to me that it would have taken a LOT less work to simply rewrite office in metro if that is what the goal is.

    Sunday, February 19, 2012 7:40 PM
  • That makes no sense.

    The desktop on ARM is a desktop that does not include win32, since win32 is a x86 application model.

    They necessarily had to rewrite office  from the ground up to make it work on ARM.

    If what you say is true, then why would they put all that work into 1) 'rewrite' the desktop and ALL that is included therein to ARM and 2) 'rewrite' office to make it work on the rewritten desktop.

    It seems to me that it would have taken a LOT less work to simply rewrite office in metro if that is what the goal is.

    My understanding is that they did port Win32 to ARM.  Why?  Well, a couple of reasons. 

    The first is that I'm sure that the same desktop versus Metro debate that we're having here is going in inside Microsoft, with different factions arguing for different things.  Perhaps the 'port the desktop to ARM' lost the war, and this is just a temporary solution until Office can be rewritten in Metro. 

    Second, they can't rewrite Office if the WinRT APIs aren't done.  The interns who wrote the Win8 Metro sample apps only had 10 weeks to write those apps.  Rewriting Office in Metro is something that will probably take a couple years to complete.

    Sunday, February 19, 2012 9:44 PM
  • I don't know. Even though I've heard people argue that Metro will be better once there are good apps, I'm still not convinced that it can work. Believe it or not, I don't care whether or not I can play Cut the Rope on my desktop PC. I remember seeing pictures of a simple Metro-style video editor online that were from the December 6 Windows Store event, and my first reaction was that the app was too depenent on the Internet to function (what if my Internet service goes out?). Not only that, but the pictures I've seen of Metro-style apps look like a weak imitation of desktop apps.
    Sunday, February 19, 2012 10:29 PM
  • I don't know. Even though I've heard people argue that Metro will be better once there are good apps, I'm still not convinced that it can work. Believe it or not, I don't care whether or not I can play Cut the Rope on my desktop PC. I remember seeing pictures of a simple Metro-style video editor online that were from the December 6 Windows Store event, and my first reaction was that the app was too depenent on the Internet to function (what if my Internet service goes out?). Not only that, but the pictures I've seen of Metro-style apps look like a weak imitation of desktop apps.

    Well, we only have 11 days until we find out what real Win8 Metro apps look like. :)
    Sunday, February 19, 2012 10:32 PM
  • Sorry, but I think this is a pointless debate.

    There is no way that the desktop is going anywhere.

    Simply no way at all.

    Nothing microsoft has ever said or done suggests the desktop being on the way out.

    I even wonder where people got this idea.

    Monday, February 20, 2012 8:35 AM
  • The Windows 8 Start menu seems a mess to me. It's a kludgy mixing of 2 interfaces when you click 'start' on the desktop; it's jarring when the desktop gets swept aside to the new menu. I can see why you want the tablet -style apps to run on a desktop Pc for consistency, but as the primary menu interface, it just doesn't work.  It took me quite  awhile to discover that the mouse wheel scrolls across the menu. It's not obvious.. why can't they just allow me to have all the entries on the menu as a text list so I cna have it all on the screen at once? I dont' want to scroll through pages of icons.. I just want a list.

    I think Microsoft could do worse then look at the improved XP-style start  menu from the people at http://vistastartmenu.com, which is far better for a desktop user.

    Monday, February 20, 2012 9:14 AM
  • If it bothers you that much, I'm sure there will be applications/plugins/skins/whatever you will be able to install so that your desktop looks just like you want it to look.

    And before you say "but we should have to do that", such plugins/applications/skins have been around since windows 95 and really aren't something new.

    A lot of my collegues have an 'application launcher' installed as well which kind of does the same thing as the win7 search box in the start menu.  The difference: the launcher only finds applications and it doesn't require the start menu.

    They like it, everybody happy.

    Such things will be available for win8 as well.

    It's probably just a matter of time before someone releases a plugin that gives you a 'start menu' more customisable then any windows ever delivered.

    Meanwhile, let's wait and see what the beta will bring.

    Monday, February 20, 2012 9:21 AM
  • Sorry, but I think this is a pointless debate.

    There is no way that the desktop is going anywhere.

    Simply no way at all.

    Nothing microsoft has ever said or done suggests the desktop being on the way out.

    I even wonder where people got this idea.


    Probably by paying attention.
    Monday, February 20, 2012 1:40 PM
  • "I even wonder where people got this idea."


    Probably by paying attention.


    Microsoft has been very unclear as far as its plans for the Windows desktop in the future. So much of Windows remains absent from Metro that it's impossible for Windows to be Metro-only on desktops and still function properly.

    • Edited by WindowsVista567 Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:17 PM Removed typo
    Monday, February 20, 2012 4:15 PM
  • The removal of the Start Menu is a BIG ‘FAIL’. The Start Screen is a very different way of working from the Start Menu, and the issue for me that I don’t think Microsoft ‘gets’ is understanding that each of a my machines play a different role in my daily life. My main desktop is my workhorse. Its where I need to be as efficient, focused, and productive as possible... and I need the OS to help keep me in ‘flow’ rather than detract me.

    After a week using Win8, the experiential transition between the Start Menu and the busy, colorful, and lively UI metro search desktop is jarring, and in my opinion, is completely unnecessary (especially when all I want to do is open a recently used or pinned app). What I don’t think Microsoft ‘gets’ with respect to this change is that there is an actual benefit to keep my main desktop visible while using the Start Menu. Seeing familiar windows, icons, and open apps in the background while performing a task allows my mind to continue to process and focus on what’s next. But by switching me into the new metro Start Screen, I’m now disrupted by the color, the transition, and the full screen. The experience breaks my concentration and flow, it disrupts my mind and my productivity, rather than helping it.

    I like the ideal of being able to switch into a metro style interface when I’m in a different mode, but I want it on my terms, and should never be forced to do so. The integration of the two by force is unnecessary and feels disorderly. Instead Microsoft should keep both, allow the user to choose, and provide an alternate way of accessing the metro Start Screen.

    Tuesday, February 21, 2012 8:24 PM
  • Tuesday, February 21, 2012 8:39 PM
  • Probably by paying attention.

    To rumours, third party blogs and drama queen media reporters.

    Not by paying attention to what microsoft has said and done.

    They upgrade explorer, develop deep integration in desktop for skydrive, add hyper V, add anti-virus tools, completely rework it to make it run on ARM,...

    And you believe they'll develop windows 11 in a metro app.  Come on now...

    Get real.

    Wednesday, February 22, 2012 12:35 PM
  • Probably by paying attention.

    To rumours, third party blogs and drama queen media reporters.

    Not by paying attention to what microsoft has said and done.

    They upgrade explorer, develop deep integration in desktop for skydrive, add hyper V, add anti-virus tools, completely rework it to make it run on ARM,...

    And you believe they'll develop windows 11 in a metro app.  Come on now...

    Get real.


    I love how you draw conclusions without evidence while ironically accusing others of the same.
    Wednesday, February 22, 2012 1:07 PM
  • I love how you draw conclusions without evidence while ironically accusing others of the same.

    There is no evidence to draw any conclusions from, that's exactly the point.

    You are the one claiming that certain specific things will happen with the desktop.

    I'm the one saying that there is no valid reason to assume that that is the case.

    You're the one making claims here, not me.

    Wednesday, February 22, 2012 2:11 PM
  • There is no evidence to draw any conclusions from, that's exactly the point.

    You are the one claiming that certain specific things will happen with the desktop.

    I'm the one saying that there is no valid reason to assume that that is the case.

    You're the one making claims here, not me.


    No, what I meant was how you summarily declare something is wrong without actually addressing anyone's arguments.  No matter.  If you don't want to participate in this discussion, I'm not sure why you keep posting to it.
    Wednesday, February 22, 2012 2:45 PM
  • @Aroush and @I-DotNET

    You should read this quote from Paul Thurrott:

    Implicit in that discussion is the notion that Windows 8 will ship with two largely separate user experiences, Metro and desktop, that are isolated and from one another. This is potentially weird, and jarring, and many believe, as I did, that Microsoft would slowly migrate away from the desktop completely, by making Metro more and more powerful over time.

    That ain't happening, folks. Instead, the Metro user experience and the desktop will coexist for the foreseeable future. Power users and those who need mainstream productivity solutions like Office will continue to use the Windows desktop going forward. And while Metro will indeed evolve, the plan as I understand it, isn't for this user experience to ever fully replace the desktop.

    http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windows8/windows-8-future-142377

    I also found another good quote:

    So with a WOA-based device, the primary user experience is going to be Metro, with its friendly and simple touch-first UI. The desktop will be secondary and used less frequently. You know, in general.

    With an x86/x64-based PC, the general overall experience will be reversed: Mostly the desktop, with just some Metro. That may change over time, and there are always exceptions--and edge cases, like desktop PCs with touch screens--but stay on target, people. We're speaking generally here.

    http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windows8/windows-8-secrets-understanding-woa-142281

    That doesn't make it sound like Microsoft is going to remove the desktop, does it?

    • Edited by WindowsVista567 Sunday, February 26, 2012 1:18 AM Corrected typo and <blockquote> mistake
    Saturday, February 25, 2012 8:08 PM
  • @WindowsVista567: I hope that's true, but I'm more skeptical.  Why remove the Start Menu if not to force people to use Metro?
    Sunday, February 26, 2012 12:32 AM