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VS 2012 Shell with third party plugin (Remobjects Oxygene) and Windows RT (Metro) development RRS feed

  • Question

  • I have following problem:
    I want use Oxygene Remobjects addin to write application for .NET Metro.
    But Shell don't have project templates and not supports some project subtypes required to build and deploy applications (for example Application Manifests).
    I learned that is it possible to use Windows 8 SDK tools (makeappx.exe, signtool.exe) to create package and some Powershell commands to deploy them manually.
    Also i can create manifests as simple as xml in any editor. This is good.
    But there is also problem with "Debugging installed package" - when i try to connect is shows me some error about "GetService for Ms...IVsAppDeveloperLicensing failed" (for clarification i have Developer license installed on my Windows 8). This can be caused by some bug or fact that Shell is not planned to support windows rt applications.

    I have some questions:

       1. Are there any plans to separate all winrt toolchain off other native language packages (like C# or VB.NET) and allow to use it with VSShell with other third party language plugins?

       2. All those problems arise with Shell but not Express  (i can't use it because its not allow installing other language plugins), and with Professional
        (i don't want to buy this version because I already payed for "language plugin" and i don't want to use C# nor VB.NET). So my question here is :
     Can i use Pro trial to use Winrt toolchain and Oxygene and not C# and VB.NET ? I think this violates "Evaluation purpose only" but i want to ask
     if there could be an exception for this.

       3. If answer for 2 is negative then could you move towards right direction how to "manually" support this toolchain in Shell ? Any informations, links i will appreciate

    And to clarify - i also asked on Remobjects Connect http://connect.remobjects.com/discussion/2175/oxygene-for-net-no-metro-application-templates-and-not-working-samples i answer received was "Only PRo supported"

    and for question 2 i received "read Pro trial EULA" (where i couldnt find any information on my particular situation :( ) 


    Thursday, September 20, 2012 5:46 PM

Answers

  • I don't know what I did to upset you so, but sorry, that was not my intention.

    As for #2: This forum is a place for technical discussions about VS Extensibility it is not a place for discussion about legal questions regarding EULAs. No one here is a lawyer and as a developer there is no way I am going to touch such a question as I have no training in that area. 

    As for #3: I addressed this in saying that Win8 development in the Isolated Shell is not supported. This was a specific decision and not an accident or a bug. The fact that a Win8 related command appears in the Isolated Shell is a bug not an indication that such functionality is supported.

    As for official statements: This is not a place to get 'official statements' around business decisions that are made by Microsoft. I really don't know if there are public forums to get such statements, you would likely need a direct contact with someone with the power to make such statements. The VSIP program is a starting point: https://vsipprogram.com/Anonymous/Home.aspx

    • Marked as answer by Ego Jiang Monday, October 8, 2012 9:16 AM
    Friday, September 21, 2012 8:20 PM

All replies

  • To be clear are you saying the VS Pro 2012 doesn't support creating Windows 8 applications?  As far as I know it does, but you have to be on Windows 8 to do so as there is no 'Windows 8 emulator' that could be used for testing downlevel.

    You seem to imply you are running Windows 8 (you say 'I have Developer license installed on my Windows 8'), then again you say you are using a 'trial' version? Do you mean a pre-release version or is there some trial version you can get that expires after some period of time (I am not terribly familar with the VS licensing story).

    Ryan

    Thursday, September 20, 2012 5:56 PM
  • To be clear are you saying the VS Pro 2012 doesn't support creating Windows 8 applications? 

    No. I mean VS 2012 Shell with third party "Oxygene Remobjects" plugin. Visual Studio 2012 Pro 90 Day trial works ok on Windows 8 RTM (on virtual machine) with installed Developer License.


    Thursday, September 20, 2012 6:40 PM
  • And by Shell you mean an Isolated Shell application? Sorry for all the questions but the scenario is not clear to me. Generally people refering to 'the Shell' mean the windowing system in VS as well as it supporting command system, settings system, etc.. Isolated Shell apps USE 'the Shell', but are distinct entities.

    Ryan

    Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:35 PM
  • Yes, when i say Shell i mean "Visual Studio 2012 Shell (Isolated)" :-) sorry for unclear names.
    Thursday, September 20, 2012 8:00 PM
  • It looks like Isolated Shell does not support Windows 8 app development (this was an explicit choice, i.e. they added blocks to disallow it). I wasn't on the team that made that choice or implemented it, so I don't know the exact reasoning behind it, but I was told "This is not a supported scenario. Win8Express and Pro/Premium/Ultimate are the only way to develop for Win8".

    Ryan

    Thursday, September 20, 2012 8:28 PM
  • It all "crashes" on simple fact that while VSExpress only allows creation in one language and it's free its just freakin ridicolous that its not possible in BUYED addin SUPPORTING .NET and even METRO apps. And of course
    VSPro (not trial) is just simple lost money for me.

    Don't get me wrong - i don't want to flame all around, i understand that VS Shell should not support any additional things (as its just "skeleton"). But leaving other developers with other compilers/plugins than official it's just
    freakin misconception. It's kinda strange as i think Microsoft generally tries to "lure" :) developers to new platform (i mean Windows 8 and Windows Store).

    I think that it should be a pack that will install WinRT debugging and deployment in pure VS Shell.

    On the other hand i see that if i am not wrong "Windows 8 SDK" has tools that allow creating packages for Metro apps.
    (Which i used and tested with Oxygene and it worked OK. And which i think and believe is not in any "licensing limiting" way connected do Visual Studio - as i installed it as separate) As i mentioned only (afaik) debugger is "buggy".

    So i was thinking that maybe Microsoft "closed the doors, but left window open" (and its partially true i see).
    I was thinking if i can use trial version to create applications with Oxygene, but i want to be sure if its legit.

    Hmm guess i will have to do it "trough a window" anway...
    Thursday, September 20, 2012 9:00 PM
  • It looks like Isolated Shell does not support Windows 8 app development (this was an explicit choice, i.e. they added blocks to disallow it).

    "Debug installed App Packages" is still showing in Visual Studio Shell btw.
    Thursday, September 20, 2012 9:04 PM
  • That sounds like a bug not an advertisement of support (since you said it doesn't work even if you try to manually enable it) :)  I will file a bug, but that I suspect that will be fixed by removing/hiding the command, not by adding full Win8 support to the ISO Shell.

    Ryan

    Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:20 PM
  • I don't know what to say.. its embarrasing, all i wanted  i wanted support not submit a bug.. and sorry but it is not funny for me (i buyed plugin from Remobjects but i thing i also "supported" MS with some percent of dollars i gave to them, so i think iam kinda YOURs CUSTOMER also) is there any way that someone could actually at least read my questions and help me with 2 or 3 ? or will we end this up this "funny" way ?

    Can some post some "official statement" about my questions ?

    Friday, September 21, 2012 7:18 PM
  • I don't know what I did to upset you so, but sorry, that was not my intention.

    As for #2: This forum is a place for technical discussions about VS Extensibility it is not a place for discussion about legal questions regarding EULAs. No one here is a lawyer and as a developer there is no way I am going to touch such a question as I have no training in that area. 

    As for #3: I addressed this in saying that Win8 development in the Isolated Shell is not supported. This was a specific decision and not an accident or a bug. The fact that a Win8 related command appears in the Isolated Shell is a bug not an indication that such functionality is supported.

    As for official statements: This is not a place to get 'official statements' around business decisions that are made by Microsoft. I really don't know if there are public forums to get such statements, you would likely need a direct contact with someone with the power to make such statements. The VSIP program is a starting point: https://vsipprogram.com/Anonymous/Home.aspx

    • Marked as answer by Ego Jiang Monday, October 8, 2012 9:16 AM
    Friday, September 21, 2012 8:20 PM