Expression Web 4 Freezes on Frames RRS feed

  • Question

  • I am using the trial version of Expression Web 4, on my laptop Windows XP3. I find that each time I attempt to create a page using FRAMES, Expression Web freezes. I wonder if it is a bug on the program. I need to have unscrollable (i.e. locked into a fixed position, regardless of scrolling the main content on the page) header and side panes on the web site I am building, but I am so green that I do not know any other way to accomplish this. Cam you please help me out?
    Friday, August 20, 2010 1:55 AM

All replies

  • Can you provide some more details about what you're doing? Please be as specific as possible.



    Friday, August 20, 2010 2:12 AM
  • Thanks Jim. Basically, I want the page to have a header and side panes that never get out of view. So I have been trying Frames. It has taken me 2 weeks and countless freezes to get this template:

    <?xml version="1.0"?>
     "_//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional //EN"
    <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
    <FRAMESET ROWS="15%,85%" border="1" frameborder="1" framespacing="1">
    <FRAMESET COLS="200,800,200">  <!-- For the top row -->
      <frame src="TopLeft.html" name="TopLeft" scrolling="no" marginheight="1">
      <frame src="TopRight.html" name="TopRight" scrolling="auto">
    </frameset> <!-- end top row -->
    <FRAMESET COLS="200,150,650,200">  <!-- For the middle or lower row -->
     <FRAME SRC="side.html" NAME=LEFT target="_self">
     <FRAME SRC="Othermiddle.html" NAME=SUN scrolling="auto" marginheight="5" marginwidth="5">
     <FRAME SRC="Mainpage.html" NAME=MIDDLE>
     <FRAME SRC="Otherside.html" NAME=RIGHT>
    </FRAMESET>  <!-- end middle or lower row -->
    <body style="margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 5px; margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0">


    The template is not perfect but it is close. I would have loved the side panes to reach all the way to the top but each attempt to tweak the code or design freezes the program. I created some basic pages to fill in the seven frames and filled the Mainpage.html with gibberish to test it. The main frame as MainEvent shows all the frames when tested in a browser.

    If there is a way to accomplish the same effect without frames, I would be really obliged. I tried using:

    <div position: fixed; left: 0px; top: 0px;>

    but the header still moved with the rest of the page so I gave up on that route.



    Friday, August 20, 2010 3:26 AM
  • That's really no help without seeing it in action--with the CSS, graphics, etc. Throw it up on the Web and come back and point us to it, as it says in the BEFORE POSTING sticky thread at the top of this forum. Put it in a temp folder of a current site or in the free space your ISP offers. We need to see it all in action.

    The problem with the side pans not reaching to the top is probably a CSS problem, so we need to see it all. In action.

    I do have to ask, though, why do you "need to have an unscrollable...header and side panes."? Nobody does that any more. I haven't seen a site like that in ages.

    Some see the glass as half full. Others see the glass as half empty. I see a glass that's clearly twice as large as it needs to be.
    Friday, August 20, 2010 4:21 AM
  • Ok, Bill. It is still on my laptop: C:\Documents and Settings\User\My Documents\My Web Sites\MyOwn2\BJsWebSiteTemplates\Mainevent.html

    There is no CSS file yet.

    I want to use the site with a database for a blog. I don't like it when I cannot see the header as I scroll down a page.

    Friday, August 20, 2010 4:54 AM
  • I have to agree with Bill's question - why???

    However, if you are determined to do this, why not start with this: <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">

    Just using that instead of XHTML gets rid of most errors on the page. Also, what's up with the unclosed (and unused) body tag at the bottom? I'd get rid of that too.

    FWIW though, I pasted your code into a page and messed around with it, changing widths, src for frames, etc. and never had any freezes. I think it's an issue either with your EW installation, or with one or more of the src files you are using.

    You might also look into javascript methods to pin divs where you want them (although, again - why?)


    Friday, August 20, 2010 5:04 AM
  • Thanks again, Jim. I will greatly appreciate any script to pin down divs. Looks like this framing thing may not be easily solved on this EW4.

    Like I mentioned, once you scroll several lines down, you cannot tell anymore where you are, whose site, what page etc. And you have to scroll up again to navigate anywhere as most links are in the first page-up position. These are the things I want to avoid. In any case, the empty space by the sides might as well be used up. This is my thinking, but then I am an amateur and there are a lot of things I don't know.

    I appreciate every piece of advice you guys give, for you are the gurus and there are a lot of things you know from experience. Meanwhile, I will try your suggestions. And does it mean I may have to re-install Expression Web 4?

    Friday, August 20, 2010 5:19 AM
  • While others have implied it, no one has actually said it yet, but since you are just learning, you would be well advised to stop trying to learn frames. Frames are a really bad way to go for numerous reasons.

    ClarkNK, A.K.A. HomePage Doctor
    HomePageDoctor.com -- Expression Web database tutorials
    Ownertrades.com -- Created with FP, Access, Bots and Wizards
    MyNumbersTracker.com -- Created with Expression, VWDExress, SQL Express, and ASP.NET.
    Friday, August 20, 2010 11:17 AM
  • Not sure what you mean by 'header and side panes that never get out of view' but there are lots of CSS layouts around for any combination of header, navigation and columns.

    See http://layouts.ironmyers.com/ for examples and also the layouts that are on the Expression Gallery


    Ian Haynes

    EW V4 Add-Ins
    EW resources, hints and tips
    Friday, August 20, 2010 11:40 AM
  • Glint: Get a space on the web and post your site. If you have questions in the future about layout/display issues, the answer is in the code, and we need to see all the code in its entirety, working as a unit.

    More to the point, though (and again, asking Why?) Look around the web; everybody is used to scrolling up and down. It's a navigation process they are used to. You will be hard pressed to find any sites that lock the header as yours does and display content in a frame. People just don't need to see the navigation all the time; it's not how they use the web. It was more common 10 years or so ago, but frames have long since been abandoned by the great majority of sites.

    Some see the glass as half full. Others see the glass as half empty. I see a glass that's clearly twice as large as it needs to be.
    Friday, August 20, 2010 11:49 AM
  • "Like I mentioned, once you scroll several lines down, you cannot tell anymore where you are, whose site, what page etc. And you have to scroll up again to navigate anywhere as most links are in the first page-up position. These are the things I want to avoid. "

    As you are reading this, most likely your view no longer contains the top of the page or any indication of where you are.  ... Are you lost?  Did you forget what page you were reading? ... Not likely. :)

    Your visitors will not forget whose site they are reading just because the header or navigation scrolls out of view. 

    Now, if you really, really, want to keep a large amount of content in a container on your page where the content scrolls but the surrounding header and navigation does not, you don't need frames.  Or even an iframe.  Put your content in a div, uss CSS to give that div a height and to set its overflow to scroll or auto.  If the content is more than that height will accomodate, the user can scroll down in that div, and the surrounding parts of the page won't move.

    Friday, August 20, 2010 12:56 PM
  • Thanks guys. Your points about the outdated idea of frames is well taken, together with the much better alternatives to achieve the same effect if necessary. I am really grateful to all of you for all advice, suggestions and samples.
    Friday, August 20, 2010 1:28 PM
  • I am also using the trial version of EW4... and it does freeze up when you try to set an inital page in a frame.  EW2 does not!

    The argument that frames are not the best way to go is not the question. Why does EW4 freeze up.

    Work around: Crtl/Alt/Del and use the task manger to minimize the window and the select window for setting initial page pops up.  Obviously there is a bug there.

    There also seems to be many more bugs, so until they fix it I am sticking with EW2  It does what I need.


    Saturday, September 4, 2010 7:31 PM
  • Start your own thread and as requested in this thread and in the Before Posting sticky upload the page and post a url.

    Very few folks here use frames and doubt anyone is about to create a fames based site to test someone's freezing issue. Post a page that folks can open in EW and see if it freezes for them too.

    MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com
    Saturday, September 4, 2010 8:20 PM