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When are images forced in the main story area? RRS feed

  • Question

  • Please take a look at ImagesPartiallyOffThePage.docx.

    If you look at the settings for the dog in the main story you will see:

    						<wp:positionV relativeFrom="paragraph">
    							<wp:posOffset>-180000</wp:posOffset>
    						</wp:positionV>
    

    And it clearly is changing that to 0.

    But if instead you put:

    						<wp:positionV relativeFrom="page">
    							<wp:posOffset>-180000</wp:posOffset>
    						</wp:positionV>
    

    It still changes it to 0, but it moves it up where the positionH set to 0 is now letting it go into the header.

    So what are the rules where:

    1. An image is restricted to the main story area?
    2. An image is restricted to the page?
    3. An image can go anywhere including off the page?

    thanks - dave


    What we did for the last 6 months - Made the world's coolest reporting & docgen system even more amazing

    Sunday, August 21, 2016 7:22 PM

Answers

  • Hi Dave, from the testing I've done I've been able to make the following conclusions about the behavior you observed…

     

    Word will constrain the vertical positioning of an image to stay within the margin if each of the following conditions are true.

     

    1. The positionV's relativeFrom attribute is set to Line or Paragraph.
    2. The posOffset < 0.
    3. The wrapType is anything other than wrapNone.

     

    I also tested this with previous versions of Word and it looks like the behavior changed between Word 2010 and Word 2013. Prior to Word 2013 it would allow the image to be positioned within the margin area under those same conditions.

     

    However, Word online seems to have additional restrictions on image positioning and will constrain the image position even if the wrapType is set to wrapNone. But since it doesn't have the same tools for editing the position, it would be very difficult to test all the possible combinations.

     

    Please let me know if this answers your question. We are still discussing this to determine whether or not it's something that should be included in MS-OI29500 since it doesn't violate the schema or deviate from the ISO/IEC 29500 specification and the behavior isn't consistent between different versions of the Word desktop client and online.


    Josh Curry (jcurry) | Escalation Engineer | Open Specifications Support Team

    Friday, September 2, 2016 9:19 PM
    Moderator
  • Hi Dave, I understand the requirement that Windward has for recreating the layout of documents as closely as possible and we will help in any way we can.  However, this type of behavior isn't something that will be documented in one of the Open Specification documents because it isn't a deviation from the standard. ISO/IEC 29500 doesn't place any restrictions on how images should be positioned with respect to anchor types, margins, etc… This is considered an implementation detail. Any 3rd party product that generates or consumes Open XML documents can implement the behavior as they see fit.

     

    I believe that the information provided previously should be enough to explain the behavior you asked about, but there is no guarantee that it won't change again in the future.

     

    Please let me know if you have any other questions. Thank you.


    Josh Curry (jcurry) | Escalation Engineer | Open Specifications Support Team

    • Marked as answer by DavidThi808 Thursday, September 8, 2016 9:24 PM
    Thursday, September 8, 2016 8:52 PM
    Moderator

All replies

  • Hi Dave, 

    Thanks for your question regarding image positions. One of the Open Specifications team will follow up shortly to assist you with this. 

    Best regards,
    Tom Jebo 
    Sr Escalation Engineer
    Microsoft Open Specifications Support

    Monday, August 22, 2016 2:36 AM
    Moderator
  • Hi Dave, I am the engineer who will be working with you on this issue. I am currently researching the problem and will provide you with an update soon. Thank you for your patience.

    Josh Curry (jcurry) | Escalation Engineer | Open Specifications Support Team

    Monday, August 22, 2016 5:21 PM
    Moderator
  • Hi Dave, from what I can tell when the positionV element's relativeFrom attribute is set to "paragraph" and the posOffset is a negative value, it has no effect on the positioning of the image, or is ignored. Interestingly, there is a note in MS-OI29500 that states the following.

     

    2.1.1339 Part 1 Section 20.4.2.11, positionV (Vertical Positioning)

    1. The standard states that paragraph is a valid value of the relativeFrom attribute.

    Word does not allow this value on this attribute

     

    I believe that is wrong as well because "paragraph" IS a valid value and setting the posOffset to a positive value has the effect we would expect. It moves the image position down relative to the paragraph's anchor.

     

    I will continue to look into this and let you know when I have more information.


    Josh Curry (jcurry) | Escalation Engineer | Open Specifications Support Team

    Tuesday, August 23, 2016 9:24 PM
    Moderator
  • Hi Dave, from the testing I've done I've been able to make the following conclusions about the behavior you observed…

     

    Word will constrain the vertical positioning of an image to stay within the margin if each of the following conditions are true.

     

    1. The positionV's relativeFrom attribute is set to Line or Paragraph.
    2. The posOffset < 0.
    3. The wrapType is anything other than wrapNone.

     

    I also tested this with previous versions of Word and it looks like the behavior changed between Word 2010 and Word 2013. Prior to Word 2013 it would allow the image to be positioned within the margin area under those same conditions.

     

    However, Word online seems to have additional restrictions on image positioning and will constrain the image position even if the wrapType is set to wrapNone. But since it doesn't have the same tools for editing the position, it would be very difficult to test all the possible combinations.

     

    Please let me know if this answers your question. We are still discussing this to determine whether or not it's something that should be included in MS-OI29500 since it doesn't violate the schema or deviate from the ISO/IEC 29500 specification and the behavior isn't consistent between different versions of the Word desktop client and online.


    Josh Curry (jcurry) | Escalation Engineer | Open Specifications Support Team

    Friday, September 2, 2016 9:19 PM
    Moderator
  • Hi Josh;

    Having this fully documented would be very helpful. We regularly get DOCX files from customers, who design them in Word, where the settings would put the image off the page, but it is kept on the page. Knowing when that occurs, and where it is restricted to, would help a lot.

    For example, we have seen cases where the Y position is moved to the top of the paper, and where it is moved to the main document area (not in the header). So the place moved to can be different too.

    thanks - dave


    What we did for the last 6 months - Made the world's coolest reporting & docgen system even more amazing

    Tuesday, September 6, 2016 4:46 PM
  • Hi Dave, I understand the requirement that Windward has for recreating the layout of documents as closely as possible and we will help in any way we can.  However, this type of behavior isn't something that will be documented in one of the Open Specification documents because it isn't a deviation from the standard. ISO/IEC 29500 doesn't place any restrictions on how images should be positioned with respect to anchor types, margins, etc… This is considered an implementation detail. Any 3rd party product that generates or consumes Open XML documents can implement the behavior as they see fit.

     

    I believe that the information provided previously should be enough to explain the behavior you asked about, but there is no guarantee that it won't change again in the future.

     

    Please let me know if you have any other questions. Thank you.


    Josh Curry (jcurry) | Escalation Engineer | Open Specifications Support Team

    • Marked as answer by DavidThi808 Thursday, September 8, 2016 9:24 PM
    Thursday, September 8, 2016 8:52 PM
    Moderator
  • Hi Josh;

    While I don't totally agree with it not being in the spec, I will agree that that is a reasonable point for this question. That each implementation makes it's own determination on when and how to correct likely incorrect settings.

    thanks - dave


    What we did for the last 6 months - Made the world's coolest reporting & docgen system even more amazing

    Thursday, September 8, 2016 9:26 PM