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Some questions about Vista & Direct3D 10 RRS feed

  • Question

  • Hello! Greetings from Ukraine!

    I am still programming under WinXP and DX9. But I'm going to port my code into Vista platform and cannot find some information I am interested in. According to numerous articles and documentations porting is to be painful:)

    So, I have some questions listed below:

    1. When will (approximately) the nVidia or ATI accelerators support Shader Model 4?

    2. How shall I use SIMD advantages on the CPU for scene management and so on when Geometry Shader processing?

    For example, I want to draw 10 000 particles. Before, I groupped all that particles under several batches and when the GPU were asinchroniusly rendering the batch, the CPU had been preparing the next one in parallel. I think it is great idea to process all the graphics on the GPU: shading, special effects and even particle systems, occlusion detection... But what the the CPU will do when the GPU detects visible geometry and renders complex special effects? In most cases all that actions together are more expensive that input+sound+phisics+AI... Who know, may be the next generation games will have very cool phisics & AI:)

    3. Does the new DirectX components use advantages of Hyperthreading and Dual Core?

    4. Will be the Managed DirectX the most efficient API for the game development under Vista?

    Monday, February 20, 2006 7:04 PM

Answers

  • Thank You for the answers. I've learned everything I wanted in this thread.
    Wednesday, February 22, 2006 11:19 AM

All replies

  • 1. “We don’t talk about future products“ is all you got if you ask nVidia and ATI about this.
    2. Let’s wait how fast the first generation geometry shaders are really.  Maybe the CPU will still be faster for some jobs. If not you can use SIMD for physic and the compiler getting always better to use SIMD for your general floating point math.
    3. As far as I know NO. But with the new driver model that is used for Vista the runtime need lees CPU power and it will be easier to make use auf multithreading in the driver.
    4. Managed DirectX will still layer over the unmanaged C++ interface.  In terms of performance the C++ interface will still have an advantage.  As the current beta doesn’t contain a managed version for Direct3D 10 it is hard to tell how big this advantage will be.  If you talk about development efficiency it is possible that managed Direct3D 10  will bet the native unmanaged Version.

    PS: If you don’t want to limit your costumer base you should not port to a Direct3D 10 only version.


     

    Monday, February 20, 2006 7:49 PM
  • Thanks for Your answers.

    PS: If you don’t want to limit your costumer base you should not port to a Direct3D 10 only version.

    I was mistaken choosing the word 'port'. I just collect information about D3D 10 to determine whether the development of the next version of the game core component would be started. I heard that WinXP will cease to be supported at the end of 2006. It means that discussing DXGI is actual at the moment. I know that DirectX 9.L will be provided to deal with new driver model. But I try to clear up what the radical advantages will D3D 10 have over the 9th version.

    Monday, February 20, 2006 9:34 PM
  • In the case you don’t already know it. Jack Hoxley have written a good overview: http://www.gamedev.net/reference/programming/features/d3d10overview/


    Even if you are willing to drop Windows XP support you still have to handle Direct3D 9 hardware on Windows Vista. Depending on your customer base and timeframe, that I don’t know, you may support this “old” hardware. After I have seen how many people ask me for a solution to make Battlefield 2 running on their GeForce 4 TI hardware I don’t believe we will see a fast general move to Direct3D 10 hardware.

    Monday, February 20, 2006 9:53 PM
  • In the case you don’t already know it. Jack Hoxley have written a good overview:

    Thanks, but I've already read it. Nice article.

    I don’t believe we will see a fast general move to Direct3D 10 hardware.

    Computer games was, is and will be the primary engine of the hardware progress...:)

    Monday, February 20, 2006 10:17 PM
  •  Sergey Matvievskiy wrote:

    I heard that WinXP will cease to be supported at the end of 2006.

    No.  Always visit this site to learn about the lifecycles of each product.  There is no other place that is more up-to-date, nor is any other place the "official" word.

    http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/

    For Windows XP, we specifically state here: Mainstream support will end two years after the next version of this product is released. Extended support will end five years after mainstream support ends.

    Assuming you're in a corporate environment that buys extended support, and assuming Windows Vista releases this year, Windows XP will be supported until 2013.

    Tuesday, February 21, 2006 4:35 PM
  • Thank You for the link, it's very helpful.

    Assuming you're in a corporate environment that buys extended support...

    Sorry, I've not introduced myself. I'm just a student. Also I'm a C++ programmer in ISD (www.isd.dp.ua). But the game development is my hobby and... my dream. There are no GameDev teams in Dnipropetrovs'k, but also there is one team of enthusiasts N_Game (www.ngsdev.com) and non-officially I work with them.

    Now I lead the creation of the game engine, which will consist of two main parts: the core engine and the game engine. And it is very impotant for me to plan interfaces for the core engine as well as these interfaces should be actual under both DirectX 9 and new DXGI.

    And I'm lucky to find interesting information on this forum, because now it's very expencive and unreal for me to visit the conferences and so on. But if our new commercial project is turned out well, the things will be changed.

    As our team has only a few members, we cannot develop all the tools and stuff we need. So, we use Microsoft's and nVidia's tools as much as we can. That's why it's necessary especially for me to know not only the latest news but also the forecasts.

    Also we will be happy to collaborate with the Microsoft corp. anyhow including the present communication.

    Tuesday, February 21, 2006 7:56 PM
  •  Sergey Matvievskiy wrote:

    Now I lead the creation of the game engine, which will consist of two main parts: the core engine and the game engine. And it is very impotant for me to plan interfaces for the core engine as well as these interfaces should be actual under both DirectX 9 and new DXGI.

    Just for clarification:

    DXGI does not contain the 3D part of the new 3D API for Vista. DXGI is the 2D, adapter and output management API that should even work with future Direct3D versions (currently called 10+n).

     

    Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:35 PM
  • DXGI is the 2D, adapter and output management API that should even work with future Direct3D versions (currently called 10+n).

    Oh! Does it seems that it would be the next generation of GDI & GDI+? If yes, it's GREAT!!!

    But I've another question. What will happen with DirectInput, DirectPlay, DirectAudio and DirectShow? And where I can find the Platform SDK for the Vista?

    Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:53 PM
  • Don’t expect too much. The 2D part of DXGI only gives you access to the memory. There are no drawing functions like you know from GDI.

    DirectInput: Still there as you know it from DirectX 9. Should only be used for legacy joysticks. You will need this if you build something like a flight simulator. Don’t force your pilots to fly with an XBox 360 controller. (Sorry I could not resist .)

    DirectPlay: Long time dead. You should not use it anymore. This includes Windows XP games. Use Winsock.

    DirectSound: Still there.

    DirectShow: Moved to the Platform SDK

    Platform SDK for Vista: I am not sure about this but I believe you need access to the Vista Beta to get the Platform SDK, too. But you can read the documentation there: http://windowssdk.msdn.microsoft.com/library/

    Tuesday, February 21, 2006 9:58 PM
  • The 2D part of DXGI only gives you access to the memory...

    As DirectDraw did? Will all the windows (forms) use DXGI instead of GDI?

    DirectInput: I think it's very helpful, especially with event notifications from input devices. I like to proceed user input in separate threads.

    DirectPlay: I heard that before, but non-officially...

    DirectSound: very good. But where is DirectMusic?

    DirectShow: OK.

    Platform SDK for Vista: I am not sure about this but I believe you need access to the Vista Beta to get the Platform SDK, too.

    I'll try.

    http://windowssdk.msdn.microsoft.com/library/

    Thanks, I'll see there...

    Tuesday, February 21, 2006 10:21 PM
  • Forms will still use GDI. There is a new API (WPF) that supports vector based UI. It uses Direct3D 9.

     

    I am not sure about DirectMusic. I am more the GPU man.

    Wednesday, February 22, 2006 6:56 AM
  • Thank You for the answers. I've learned everything I wanted in this thread.
    Wednesday, February 22, 2006 11:19 AM