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Snapshot boot in WCE7 RRS feed

  • Question

  • Hi,

      Currently, Windows Comapact 2013 supports Snapshot boot.

    Is it possible to implement "Snapshot boot" in WCE7 by any chance ?

    or

    Does Microsoft have any plans to implement  "snapshot boot" in WCE7?

    Regards,

    Vijay

    Monday, October 6, 2014 10:43 AM

All replies

  • I don't see any reason that you couldn't implement it in WEC7.

    Historically speaking, Microsoft does not add new features to old versions of the OS.  So, don't expect that to happen.


    Bruce Eitman (eMVP) Senior Engineer Bruce.Eitman AT Eurotech DOT com My BLOG http://geekswithblogs.net/bruceeitman Eurotech Inc. www.Eurotech.com

    Monday, October 6, 2014 12:34 PM
    Moderator
  • I'm not sure if there is any implementation of Snapshot boot, even for WEC2013. Yes, it is supported, but no, there is not much documentation that tells you how to do it and there is no sample BSP implementing it AFAIK.

    All I know is that you need a lot of work in the BSP and bootloader to make it work.

    I would love to hear your experience if you decide to start that process. Maybe you could write a blog post or white paper about it? I'd be happy to provide you with space on our blog for that... ;)


    Good luck,

    Michel Verhagen, eMVP
    Check out my blog: http://guruce.com/blog

    GuruCE
    Microsoft Embedded Partner
    http://guruce.com
    Consultancy, training and development services.

    Tuesday, October 7, 2014 8:24 AM
    Moderator
  • Hi,

    Thanks for the reply.

    I am new to WCE development. 

    As per the Compact 2013 Release notes, Snapshot boot is a newly introduced feature.

    I have found some documentation to implement snapshot boot in Compact 2013 but i never tried.

    If someone wants to implement snapshot boot they have to implement it as given in the below links.

    Please check the below links to know more about snapshot boot in Compact 2013.

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dn169259.aspx

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dn169273.aspx

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/jj592914.aspx

    This is the reason i am asking whether we can do the same in WCE7?

    Wednesday, October 8, 2014 5:15 AM
  • Yeah, we all know about those pages, but without a sample implementation it is kind of slim documentation to go on (as you will no doubt figure out once you start).

    I'm interested why you are choosing WEC7 instead of WEC2013?

    If you want to implement this in WEC7 you need to take care of everything yourself. It should be possible, but it will be a major task. It's already a major task in WEC2013, and that has kernel support for it.

    You know you need full source of your BSP, right? And a lot of WEC experience will definitely help (which you don't have). You'll also no doubt need a JTAGger for your device, do you have one?

    I'm not trying to talk this out of your head, I'm just making sure you are understanding the scope of work (which is huge, especially for a beginner WEC developer).


    Good luck,

    Michel Verhagen, eMVP
    Check out my blog: http://guruce.com/blog

    GuruCE
    Microsoft Embedded Partner
    http://guruce.com
    Consultancy, training and development services.

    Wednesday, October 8, 2014 6:24 AM
    Moderator
  • Hi Michel,

    Thanks for the reply and it is very helpful for me.

    We are interested in WEC7 as WEC2013 is not as stable as WEC7 and we have some devices which are already running with WEC7.

    I understand from your reply that it is possible to implement snapshot boot (Take the snap shot of the RAM and copy to storage media and copy back the image from storage media to RAM). But lot of changes and experience is required.

    I have one last question, please clarify.

    WEC7 does not have kernel support to implement the feature. 

    By changing the BSP,Boot loader and writing some drivers, can we achieve this?

    Thanks in advance

    Vijay

    Wednesday, October 8, 2014 11:46 AM
  • Can you elaborate a bit on your statement "WEC2013 is not as stable as WEC7"?

    Bruce Eitman, who's opinion I highly respect, seems to think it is possible to implement Snapshot boot in WEC7.

    I, on the other hand, am not so sure. My initial hunch would be "not easy", but I'd have to look into it some more to see if the kernel function implementations are in shared source and whether or not that can be backported. At this point in time I do not have enough information to give you a definitive answer on that, sorry. 

    Maybe Bruce knows more about Snapshot boot?


    Good luck,

    Michel Verhagen, eMVP
    Check out my blog: http://guruce.com/blog

    GuruCE
    Microsoft Embedded Partner
    http://guruce.com
    Consultancy, training and development services.

    Wednesday, October 8, 2014 8:09 PM
    Moderator
  • I am no expert on Snapshot boot, but I have talked with someone at Microsoft about it.

    It seems to me that snapshot boot is Windows XP/7 hibernate, and hibernate is very similar to Windows CE Suspend - but with a significant twist.  The twist is that RAM must be copied to disk before suspending and restored by the bootloader (or early in the Kernel) before resuming.

    There might be some difficulties, but I think that with enough time and money thrown at development that Snapshot could even be put into Windows CE 3.0 (which is the start of my Windows CE knowledge showing that I am relatively new to this...)


    Bruce Eitman (eMVP) Senior Engineer Bruce.Eitman AT Eurotech DOT com My BLOG http://geekswithblogs.net/bruceeitman Eurotech Inc. www.Eurotech.com

    Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:30 PM
    Moderator
  • I would ask a more basic question. Why do you want to use Snapshot boot? I have talked to so many who think they would get greatly faster boot times. Wrong. Remember the majority of the boot time is loading the image from your storage device to RAM. Snapshot boot also has to load the snapshot from the same storage device so the only thing you really gain is the driver initialization and OS startup time ...which is usually negligible compared to the load time.

    Dave

    Tuesday, October 21, 2014 8:58 PM
  • I would ask a more basic question. Why do you want to use Snapshot boot? I have talked to so many who think they would get greatly faster boot times. Wrong. Remember the majority of the boot time is loading the image from your storage device to RAM. Snapshot boot also has to load the snapshot from the same storage device so the only thing you really gain is the driver initialization and OS startup time ...which is usually negligible compared to the load time.

    Dave

    Dave:

    I greatly respect your opinion, but your answer assumes a certain set of hardware.   With other hardware, the results could be significant.

    Consider XIP from flash - so no load time.  Minimal RAM, so not so much load time for RAM.  Mount as root for the file system, so files are not taking room in RAM (and don't need to be restored).   Probably other things could make snapshot work very well.


    Bruce Eitman (eMVP) Senior Engineer Bruce.Eitman AT Eurotech DOT com My BLOG http://geekswithblogs.net/bruceeitman Eurotech Inc. www.Eurotech.com

    Wednesday, October 22, 2014 2:22 PM
    Moderator