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When do we use which separator in footnotes RRS feed

  • Question

  • Hi all;

    I've read through all of 17.11 and all relevant sub-sections and I can't find how it specifies which separator to use when wt the top of a set of footnotes. It lists that in settings.xml and in sectPr we will see:

    	<w:footnotePr>
    		<w:footnote w:id="-1"/>
    		<w:footnote w:id="0"/>
    	</w:footnotePr>
    

    Where it might also use w:pos instead of w:footnote. But it doesn't say which of those to use when/where. Where is all of that detailed?

    thanks - dave


    Who will win The Windward International Collegiate Programming Championships?

    Tuesday, February 25, 2014 9:45 PM

Answers

  • Hi David,

    In the sample document, footnote.docx, in the package "/word/settings.xml"
            <w:footnotePr>
              <w:footnote w:id="-1"/>
              <w:footnote w:id="0"/>
            </w:footnotePr>
    refers to two different kind of footnotes, “-1” refers to 
            <w:footnote w:type="separator" w:id="-1">
    and “0” refers to
            <w:footnote w:type="continuationSeparator" w:id="0">
    in the package
    "/word/footnotes.xml"

    If you isolate footnotePr, you can’t tell which kind of footnotes they are. ISO/IEC 29500-1 “17.11.9 footnote (Special Footnote List)” states:
    Each of the footnotes which are not of style normal must be specified in the footnotePr element, as follows:

      <w:footnotePr>
        <w:footnote w:id="0" />
        <w:footnote w:id="1" />
      </w:footnotePr>

    This indicates to the consumer that the footnotes with an id attribute value of 0 and 1 are special footnotes, and should be treated accordingly.

    This means that after processing "footnotePr" in the sample file we only know "-1" and "0" are not normal. The information which kind of special footnotes they are is in the “type” attribute of the “footnote” element, which is the child element of the “footnotes” element.

    Thanks, Vilmos
    Friday, March 21, 2014 11:14 PM
  • Hi David,

    The “id”s got after processing “footnotePr” element don’t contain information about which one should be used as footnote separator. This information will be available after processing the “footnotes” element; details are in the previous postings.

    Thanks, Vilmos

    • Marked as answer by DavidThi808 Monday, March 24, 2014 9:41 PM
    Saturday, March 22, 2014 5:41 PM

All replies

  • Hi David:

    I have alerted the open specifications team regarding your inquiry. A member of the team will be in touch soon.


    Regards, Obaid Farooqi

    Tuesday, February 25, 2014 11:15 PM
    Owner
  • Hi David,

    I am the engineer who will be working with you on this issue. Your posting contains a snippet indicating you have a sample file, in order to see the whole picture, please post the file or send it as attachment to ‘dochelp (at) microsoft (dot) com’ and in the e-mail indicate that it is for me. Be sure that the file doesn’t contain any confidential information.

    Regards,
    Vilmos Foltenyi - MSFT

    Wednesday, February 26, 2014 8:03 AM
  • Hi;

    I just put one up at www.windward.net/temp/footnote.docx - it has both a short and long separator footnote (-1 & 0). I didn't do anything special here, just quickly wrote the content in Word so this is thhe default for how Word does this.

    thanks - dave


    Who will win The Windward International Collegiate Programming Championships?

    Wednesday, February 26, 2014 1:48 PM
  • Hi David

    If I understand your question I think you're looking in the wrong place for separator information. From what I can see, the information about the separator is stored in the footnotes.xml package part. The default will be a line, so that won't appear. But if it's different (or you want to change it) then:

    "><w:footnote
    w:type="separator" w:id="-1"><w:p
    <w:pPr><w:spacing
    w:after="0" w:line="240"
    w:lineRule="auto"/><w:rPr><w:lang
    w:val="de-CH"/></w:rPr></w:pPr><w:r><w:rPr><w:lang
    w:val="de-CH"/></w:rPr><w:t>********************************</w:t></w:r></w:p></w:footnote>

    Note the w:type attribute and the w:t element. I typed asterisks to replace the default line element as separator.


    Cindy Meister, VSTO/Word MVP, my blog

    Tuesday, March 4, 2014 5:02 PM
  • Hi David,

    Sorry, I don’t understand your question. Elements pos and footnote have their own meaning, why do you think pos can be used instead of footnote? In the posted footnote.docx the default separator is used, Cindy showed how to change it. Please elaborate what you are looking for.

    Thanks, Vilmos
    Tuesday, March 4, 2014 8:43 PM
  • Hi Cindy & Vilmos;

    I understand how the nodes inside the <w:footnote> determine what is rendered. My question is which footnote do I use for the separator. When <w:footnotePr> has two footnotes, which of those two do I use as the separator? do I use id="-1" or id="0"?

    thanks - dave


    Who will win The Windward International Collegiate Programming Championships?

    Thursday, March 6, 2014 3:37 PM
  • Hi David,

    In the sample document, footnote.docx, in the package "/word/settings.xml"
            <w:footnotePr>
              <w:footnote w:id="-1"/>
              <w:footnote w:id="0"/>
            </w:footnotePr>
    refers to two different kind of footnotes, “-1” refers to 
            <w:footnote w:type="separator" w:id="-1">
    and “0” refers to
            <w:footnote w:type="continuationSeparator" w:id="0">
    in the package
    "/word/footnotes.xml"

    These kind of separators are documented in ISO/IEC 29500-1:
    17.11.1 continuationSeparator (Continuation Separator Mark)
    and
    17.11.23 separator (Footnote/Endnote Separator Mark)

    If this doesn’t answer your question, please elaborate on the problem you are facing. 

    Thanks, Vilmos

    Thursday, March 20, 2014 7:12 PM
  • I understand the part you listed. My question is as follows. Here's the bottom of page 1 in the document:

    Where I added the red ellipse. This is clearly the w:separator in footnote id=-1.

    My question is - how do I know it is that footnote/separator that is displayed above the footnotes at the bottom of the page. How do I know it is the footnote with id=-1?

    thanks - dave


    Who will win The Windward International Collegiate Programming Championships?

    Thursday, March 20, 2014 7:58 PM
  • Hi David,

    In your sample document, footnote.docx, there is only one
            footnote type="separator"
    when footnote separator is used that one is used. I modified a little  to see this one was used:
            <w:footnote w:type="separator" w:id="-1">
              <w:p w:rsidR="004C24BB" w:rsidRDefault="004C24BB" w:rsidP="006C7EFD">
                <w:pPr>
                  <w:spacing w:after="0" w:line="240" w:lineRule="auto"/>
                </w:pPr>
                <w:r>
                  <!--
                  <w:separator/>
                  -->
                  <w:t>++++++++++++++++++</w:t>
                </w:r>
              </w:p>
            </w:footnote>

    Thanks, Vilmos

    Friday, March 21, 2014 5:30 AM
  • Hi Vilmos;

    But how do I know programatically which one is used? I can't have my program change the text in each and then look at what Word renders.

    ??? - thanks - dave


    Who will win The Windward International Collegiate Programming Championships?

    Friday, March 21, 2014 11:23 AM
  • Hi David,

    In the sample document, footnote.docx, in the package "/word/settings.xml"
            <w:footnotePr>
              <w:footnote w:id="-1"/>
              <w:footnote w:id="0"/>
            </w:footnotePr>
    refers to two different kind of footnotes, “-1” refers to 
            <w:footnote w:type="separator" w:id="-1">
    and “0” refers to
            <w:footnote w:type="continuationSeparator" w:id="0">
    in the package
    "/word/footnotes.xml"

    If you isolate footnotePr, you can’t tell which kind of footnotes they are. ISO/IEC 29500-1 “17.11.9 footnote (Special Footnote List)” states:
    Each of the footnotes which are not of style normal must be specified in the footnotePr element, as follows:

      <w:footnotePr>
        <w:footnote w:id="0" />
        <w:footnote w:id="1" />
      </w:footnotePr>

    This indicates to the consumer that the footnotes with an id attribute value of 0 and 1 are special footnotes, and should be treated accordingly.

    This means that after processing "footnotePr" in the sample file we only know "-1" and "0" are not normal. The information which kind of special footnotes they are is in the “type” attribute of the “footnote” element, which is the child element of the “footnotes” element.

    Thanks, Vilmos
    Friday, March 21, 2014 11:14 PM
  • Hi Vilmos;

    I understand all that. However, that still doesn't tell me which one should be used at the bottom of a page where I list out the footnotes. How do I know which of the two special ones I should use?

    thanks - dave


    Who will win The Windward International Collegiate Programming Championships?

    Friday, March 21, 2014 11:22 PM
  • Hi David,

    The “id”s got after processing “footnotePr” element don’t contain information about which one should be used as footnote separator. This information will be available after processing the “footnotes” element; details are in the previous postings.

    Thanks, Vilmos

    • Marked as answer by DavidThi808 Monday, March 24, 2014 9:41 PM
    Saturday, March 22, 2014 5:41 PM
  • In footnotes.xml:

    	<w:footnote w:type="separator" w:id="-1">
    		<w:p w:rsidR="00D56A5E" w:rsidRDefault="00D56A5E" w:rsidP="006C7EFD">
    			<w:pPr>
    				<w:spacing w:after="0" w:line="240" w:lineRule="auto"/>
    			</w:pPr>
    			<w:r>
    				<w:separator/>
    			</w:r>
    		</w:p>
    	</w:footnote>

    Are you saying the "w:type="separator" is what specifies it? I'm sorry, if this is it for some reason I was not understanding that from the above discussion.

    thanks - dave


    Who will win The Windward International Collegiate Programming Championships?

    Monday, March 24, 2014 11:32 AM
  • Hi David,

    Yes, the 'w:type="separator"' specifies the id will be used as regular separator, details are in my posting on Friday, March 21.

    Thanks, Vilmos

    Monday, March 24, 2014 6:08 PM