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Problem after purchase Visual Studio 2010 WITH MSDN RRS feed

  • Question

  • Hi,

    I am a sysAdmin in a software company. So, I had ordered two units of Visual Studio 2010 Professional. So what I got was a DVD box with named 'Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 Professional'. At the bottom, it state "Includes MSDN Essential Subscription". I dont know why the seller gave me this because I had asked for Visual Studio WITHOUT MSDN.

    In our company we really don't need MSDN subscription. What we need is a copy of Visual Studio that

    1) Valid forever

    2) When a staff resigned, we would like to transfer that license to new staff that using different PC and

    3) When there is a new version of Visual Studio like 2011, we would like to just buy upgrade license for it.

    My problem is , do the software I bought capable to do THREE things that our company need? Please advise me or else I have to give back the copy that I bought to the seller back. I am scared to open the packaging box because it is very expensive.

    Thursday, May 24, 2012 12:04 PM

Answers

  • Good questions John and I can see how the inclusion of an expiring Subscription might initially raise some concerns for you about what will and will not expire.  Let me address your questions head on, and then I'll discuss a bit more about MSDN Essentials below:

    1) your copy is valid forever

    2) I dont know about transferring retail copies of VS to another machine, and how many times this works.  Windows 7 limits this through Activation.  You'll need to ask this question in the VS Setup and Installation forum here: http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/vssetup/threads

    3) The presence of an MSDN Essentials Subscription will not impact your ability to upgrade your copies of VS in the future.  You have a legit, full blown copy of VS 2010, and I believe all retail copies of VS 2010 Professional include an MSDN Essentials subscription, so if you dont want to use MSDN, just dont activate it.

    While I have your attention, let me address your concerns about the MSDN Essentials subscriptions:

    Visual Studio 2010 Professional also includes a one year MSDN Essentials Subscription, which gives you access to a few popular Microsoft products like: SQL Server 2008 R2, Windows 7 Ultimate, and Windows Server 2008 R2 Enterprise Edition, and corresponding product keys for these (if required).  The license for MSDN Essentials requires you to only use these products for Development purposes only.  

    When your MSDN Essentials Subscription expires, the following things happen:

    - You lose access to the MSDN Essentials Subscription, meaning you will no longer be able to download the products it includes.

    - You are no longer licensed to use the products you've downloaded from your MSDN Essentials Subscription, so you must uninstall them.  This does not include Visual Studio 2010.  (What we're hoping, of course, is that rather than let the Subscription expire, you'll upgrade your MSDN Essentials Subscription to an MSDN Professional subscription, which does include perpetual licensing, and many more products)

    - You will not lose any capabilities or access to Visual Studio 2010 Professional.  You bought a copy of it and you can use it forever.

    - There will be no impact to your ability to upgrade to a newer version of Visual Studio just because you had an MSDN Essentials subscription.  I'm wording this this way because I don't know what the upgrade scenarios will be for the next version of VS, so I can't make specific promises about what scenarios will be supported, but I can tell you that MSDN Essentials with your copy of VS 2010 Professional wont specifically prevent any upgrade scenarios.  

    Hope this helps explain things.  Please let me know what additional questions you have.

    Thanks,
    Mike


    MSDN and TechNet Subscriptions Support
    Read the Subscriptions Blog!

    Thursday, May 24, 2012 1:26 PM
    Moderator
  • Good followup questions! I'm glad I could help above.

    First, MSDN is licensed per user, not per machine or per installation.  If your company had 3 subscriptions, then in order to comply with our licensing, they need to identify which 3 employees were Subscribers, and then only these 3 people could access the MSDN Software over the network.  If any other person was accessing it for any reason, your previous company was in violation of our licensing terms.  From: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/subscriptions/cc150618.aspx, "MSDN subscriptions are only offered per individual, there are no “team” subscriptions or sharing of subscription benefits."

    To answer your specific questions:

    1) keys are not licenses.  Just because a key works for an installation doesn't mean that its use was licensed.  Any other staff using one of these keys was in violation of the MSDN Licensing agreement. 

    2) MSDN Subscriptions in general include perpetual use rights.  There are exceptions to this, and one of them is an MSDN Essentials Subscription, as I mentioned above.  The perpetual use rights include the same use limitations that are in the agreement for an MSDN Subscription, including only the licensed user may use the software and the only use licensed to that user is development, testing, and demonstration users.  After the subscription expires, you lose access to the download site, but any software obtained through the site during the active period can be used in this manner perpetually.  There are other details that you should be aware of included in the Visual Studio and MSDN Licensing Whitepaper here:  http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?displaylang=en&id=13350.  Search for the section titled "Perpetual Use Rights"

    3) Licenses are transferable but that's subject to some limitations depending on how you obtained the subscription.  MSDN Subscriptions obtained through VL can only be transferred every 90 days.  Retail subscriptions can be transferred.  The previous licensee must uninstall all software obtained through MSDN as a part of the transfer.  This is covered in the licensing agreement, which appears on this page, when you add a subscription: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/add/

    My answers here shouldn't be used as a substitute for you reviewing the licensing documents yourself.

    Thanks,
    Mike


    MSDN and TechNet Subscriptions Support
    Read the Subscriptions Blog!

    Thursday, May 24, 2012 3:35 PM
    Moderator
  • OK now I'm answering your followup question. 

    Immediately above the quote you found on this page: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/cc150618.aspx, is the text (my emphasis added):

    If you have an Ultimate or Premium level subscription, you can also install and use one copy of certain desktop applications on one device for production use:

    • Microsoft Office Professional Plus 2010
    • Microsoft Office Project Professional 2010
    • Microsoft Office Visio Premium 2010

    Does that answer your question?  Products like Microsoft Office also includes an API to develop extensions and other add on products that your company might develop, and its for this development and testing purpose that we include these products.

    Please review the documentation I shared above.

    Thanks,
    Mike


    MSDN and TechNet Subscriptions Support
    Read the Subscriptions Blog!

    Thursday, May 24, 2012 3:49 PM
    Moderator

All replies

  • Good questions John and I can see how the inclusion of an expiring Subscription might initially raise some concerns for you about what will and will not expire.  Let me address your questions head on, and then I'll discuss a bit more about MSDN Essentials below:

    1) your copy is valid forever

    2) I dont know about transferring retail copies of VS to another machine, and how many times this works.  Windows 7 limits this through Activation.  You'll need to ask this question in the VS Setup and Installation forum here: http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/vssetup/threads

    3) The presence of an MSDN Essentials Subscription will not impact your ability to upgrade your copies of VS in the future.  You have a legit, full blown copy of VS 2010, and I believe all retail copies of VS 2010 Professional include an MSDN Essentials subscription, so if you dont want to use MSDN, just dont activate it.

    While I have your attention, let me address your concerns about the MSDN Essentials subscriptions:

    Visual Studio 2010 Professional also includes a one year MSDN Essentials Subscription, which gives you access to a few popular Microsoft products like: SQL Server 2008 R2, Windows 7 Ultimate, and Windows Server 2008 R2 Enterprise Edition, and corresponding product keys for these (if required).  The license for MSDN Essentials requires you to only use these products for Development purposes only.  

    When your MSDN Essentials Subscription expires, the following things happen:

    - You lose access to the MSDN Essentials Subscription, meaning you will no longer be able to download the products it includes.

    - You are no longer licensed to use the products you've downloaded from your MSDN Essentials Subscription, so you must uninstall them.  This does not include Visual Studio 2010.  (What we're hoping, of course, is that rather than let the Subscription expire, you'll upgrade your MSDN Essentials Subscription to an MSDN Professional subscription, which does include perpetual licensing, and many more products)

    - You will not lose any capabilities or access to Visual Studio 2010 Professional.  You bought a copy of it and you can use it forever.

    - There will be no impact to your ability to upgrade to a newer version of Visual Studio just because you had an MSDN Essentials subscription.  I'm wording this this way because I don't know what the upgrade scenarios will be for the next version of VS, so I can't make specific promises about what scenarios will be supported, but I can tell you that MSDN Essentials with your copy of VS 2010 Professional wont specifically prevent any upgrade scenarios.  

    Hope this helps explain things.  Please let me know what additional questions you have.

    Thanks,
    Mike


    MSDN and TechNet Subscriptions Support
    Read the Subscriptions Blog!

    Thursday, May 24, 2012 1:26 PM
    Moderator
  • Hi Mike,

    Thanks for the great explanation that is very useful when I want to explain to my Boss.

    I would like clear my doubt,

    Previously the company I was working have subscribed for Visual Studio Ultimate for MSDN, and have 3 subscriber for it. They installed MS Office 2007, MS Office 2010 in their PC. Install it in their laptop too and share it over the network. Other staff simply copy and install it.

    1) Why the key for the MSDN subscriber also working for other staff and it seem genuine since other staff can receive updates from Microsoft.

    2) When MSDN subscription expired, do the MSDN subscriber have to uninstall all software except VS 2010 is it?

    3) When they bought the VS 2010 license they just have the subscription via online, does not come with the box as I bought. Do that license is transferable to another staff?

    Thanks.

    Thursday, May 24, 2012 1:54 PM
  • Hi Mike,

    I would like to ask you another question.

    MSDN stated that

    "Using the software in any other way, such as for doing email, playing games, or editing a document is another use and is not covered by the MSDN subscription license."

    I really don't u/stand above phrase. Of course if we download MS Office Pro 2010, we will use it to edit a document and MS Office Pro included Outlook 2010, and we do e-mail. That the purpose of those software. If MSDN not allowed to do this what is the point downloading those software under MSDN subscription?



    Thursday, May 24, 2012 2:43 PM
  • Good followup questions! I'm glad I could help above.

    First, MSDN is licensed per user, not per machine or per installation.  If your company had 3 subscriptions, then in order to comply with our licensing, they need to identify which 3 employees were Subscribers, and then only these 3 people could access the MSDN Software over the network.  If any other person was accessing it for any reason, your previous company was in violation of our licensing terms.  From: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/subscriptions/cc150618.aspx, "MSDN subscriptions are only offered per individual, there are no “team” subscriptions or sharing of subscription benefits."

    To answer your specific questions:

    1) keys are not licenses.  Just because a key works for an installation doesn't mean that its use was licensed.  Any other staff using one of these keys was in violation of the MSDN Licensing agreement. 

    2) MSDN Subscriptions in general include perpetual use rights.  There are exceptions to this, and one of them is an MSDN Essentials Subscription, as I mentioned above.  The perpetual use rights include the same use limitations that are in the agreement for an MSDN Subscription, including only the licensed user may use the software and the only use licensed to that user is development, testing, and demonstration users.  After the subscription expires, you lose access to the download site, but any software obtained through the site during the active period can be used in this manner perpetually.  There are other details that you should be aware of included in the Visual Studio and MSDN Licensing Whitepaper here:  http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?displaylang=en&id=13350.  Search for the section titled "Perpetual Use Rights"

    3) Licenses are transferable but that's subject to some limitations depending on how you obtained the subscription.  MSDN Subscriptions obtained through VL can only be transferred every 90 days.  Retail subscriptions can be transferred.  The previous licensee must uninstall all software obtained through MSDN as a part of the transfer.  This is covered in the licensing agreement, which appears on this page, when you add a subscription: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/add/

    My answers here shouldn't be used as a substitute for you reviewing the licensing documents yourself.

    Thanks,
    Mike


    MSDN and TechNet Subscriptions Support
    Read the Subscriptions Blog!

    Thursday, May 24, 2012 3:35 PM
    Moderator
  • OK now I'm answering your followup question. 

    Immediately above the quote you found on this page: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/cc150618.aspx, is the text (my emphasis added):

    If you have an Ultimate or Premium level subscription, you can also install and use one copy of certain desktop applications on one device for production use:

    • Microsoft Office Professional Plus 2010
    • Microsoft Office Project Professional 2010
    • Microsoft Office Visio Premium 2010

    Does that answer your question?  Products like Microsoft Office also includes an API to develop extensions and other add on products that your company might develop, and its for this development and testing purpose that we include these products.

    Please review the documentation I shared above.

    Thanks,
    Mike


    MSDN and TechNet Subscriptions Support
    Read the Subscriptions Blog!

    Thursday, May 24, 2012 3:49 PM
    Moderator
  • Thanks, Mike!  The perpetual use rights should be in the main blurb about MSDN on its main page vs. buried in its Licensing Whitepaper.

    So, if I buy "Visual Studio 2012 Professional with MSDN 1-Year" now and the final, live, non-beta/RC/Preview version of Visual Studio 2013 is released within my 1-year subscription period, will I be legally able to download and activate Visual Studio 2013 Professional?  

    If so, will I be legally able to continue using Visual Studio 2013 Professional after my subscription expires?

    I couldn't find this in the Licensing Whitepaper (unless of course Microsoft thinks that "No" answers are "clearly implied" by having the VS version in the product name).  If so, then if my asking these questions aren't clearly implying it, then I'd like to explicitly submit my vote that NO, it's NOT "clearly implied" (at least for me) and needs to be in the main short description also vs. just in a Licensing Whitepaper or worse, just in the product name.  With most software licenses, the clarity would not be an issue, but when you combine the inclusion of multiple licenses of (at least) old versions and 1-year download rights, it makes it an issue.  Given those features, the version # in the name could just be for marketing purposes (i.e. to promote the latest version) and / or logistical reasons (i.e. for the DVD vs. online versions).
    Friday, July 26, 2013 1:52 PM
  • Hmm well there is an entire section of the whitepaper titled "Perpetual Use Rights" and it covers this, although I'm happy to take your questions on it.  Here's the first few sentences:

    MSDN subscriptions purchased through certain channels provide perpetual use rights that allow subscribers to continue using certain software products obtained through an active subscription after the subscription has expired. However, subscribers are not entitled to updates for that software after the subscription has expired, nor do they continue to have access to software or product keys through MSDN Subscriber Downloads or to other subscription services that are a benefit of having an active subscription.

    The answer to your question is yes, you would be able to use VS 2013 if it came out and your subscription was still active and it included a new version of VS 2013 (which it almost certainly would).  But, understand that you lose access to MSDN Subscriber Downloads after your subscription expires, so if you haven't downloaded it, you wont be able to use it.  

    I hear what you're saying about the title of the SKU you're buying "Visual Studio Professional 2012 with MSDN" and trying to understand how that could include VS 2013 (or whatever) when it has 2012 in the name.  Seems like you're getting a bonus that we're being sneaky about.  The year subscription entitles many*(see the section in the white paper for details) perpetual use rights for the products included while their subscription is active.  Also, understand that the development-only nature of the license is also perpetual.  Its dev and test (and demonstration) only for that perpetual time.

    Regarding the naming, The MSDN Subscription levels we offer  align with the editions of Visual Studio that are created, so when an entirely new release of Visual Studio comes out, if the different editions (standard, professional, ultimate, etc.) dont line up with the previous version, we create new subscription levels for those editions, and map the old levels into the new ones.    For example, a few years ago we had "Team Developer" "Team Suite" and "Team Test" Subscription levels that are no longer available. (I'm guessing but I think these I've listed all got mapped into VS ultimate or VS Premium?)   So if you have Visual Studio Professional 2012 with MSDN today, but then for VS 2013, there isn't a "Professional" edition for some reason, you'll get mapped into Visual Studio Purple 2013 with MSDN, and then that will become your new subscription level and you'll get to download Visual Studio Purple 2013 as a part of it (and still get to use Visual Studio 2012 Professional too). 

    So that's why we stick the version number in there, because the edition of Visual Studio that comes with the subscription is central to the purchase decision.  Make sense?  Clear as mud? :) 

    Hope this helps!

    Mike


    MSDN and TechNet Subscriptions Support
    Read the Subscriptions Blog!


    Friday, July 26, 2013 5:06 PM
    Moderator
  • Re. "Hmm well there is an entire section of the whitepaper titled "Perpetual Use Rights": I knew that.  That's why I said "vs. buried in its Licensing Whitepaper."  My suggestion was that (a summarized form) also be "in the main blurb about MSDN on its main page".  No biggie.  Just thought that many people would assume no perpetual use whenever they see the word "subscription" and not even bother to read the whitepaper which btw, IMHO, is not that easy to get to and even if they did see it, the "no" assumption would be such a deal-breaker, they wouldn't bother to read it.

    Re. being able to download (subscription period) and perpetually use major upgrades to Visual Studio released during the subscription period: Yay!  I thought for sure the answer was going to be no.  Thanks for the clarification!  My boss/coworkerS will be glad to hear that.  I thought we might be missing VS 2013 by (unofficially ;) 1-2 mos.

    Tuesday, July 30, 2013 2:14 AM
  • Sorry for being overly speciric, tchien, I thought you said you couldn't find it in the whitepaper so I just pointed it out.   Definitely a good suggestion regarding highlighting perpetual licensing, and we're glad you find that very valuable to your organization!

    Thanks,
    Mike 


    MSDN and TechNet Subscriptions Support
    Read the Subscriptions Blog!

    Wednesday, July 31, 2013 3:54 PM
    Moderator