Is WEDU useful at all??? RRS feed

  • Question

  • Hi all,

    Point me if I'm not correct:

    I took WES7 SP1, fully updated distribution shares with WEDU and I made two images:

    1. No any updates in xml file. Build IBW, run in to Audit mode, run Windows Update, apply all updates, switch to OOBE. The size of the resulting WIM is 1885MB.

    2. Add all applicable updates in Image Configuration Editor. Build IBW, run in to Audit mode, run Windows Update, make sure that almost all updates were already preinstalled, switch to OOBE. The size of resulting WIM is 2309MB.

    What's the use for me to update my DS with WEDU if applying all updates makes my image +450MB in size?? It looks that WEDU applies all updates (keeping 5-10 copies in WinSxS folder) and Windows Update is smarter to skip all superseded updates. Keep in mind that you can't remove anything installed to WinSxS and using WEDU becomes quite questionnable.

    I used to run WEDU before I make a new build, but now I just run vanilla xml and relay on Windows update. Am I wrong somewhere? Does WEDU add something that WU doesn't?

    Thanks in advance,


    WBR, Nikolai

    Wednesday, February 13, 2013 3:22 PM

All replies

  • Are you going to rely on WU when the system is in the field? WU in the field is not recommended since an embedded system may or may not have interent access. In which case, you will have systems in the field with versious stages of updates.

    -Sean / / Book Author - Pro Guide to WES 7, XP Embedded Advanced, Pro Guide to POS for .NET

    Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:04 PM
  • Package Scanner should do the job. But I just used/tested it only in the beginning of WES7.

    The commands are little weird. (find means remove)

    It also might be possible to import the win8 cleanup provider and use it for cleanup. (after the cleanup you may should delete the provider as this might could violate license ^^)

    Windows Embedded Developer and Scripting Guy //Germany (Preparing a blog about Windows Embedded Standard)

    • Edited by KNARZ Wednesday, February 13, 2013 7:41 PM
    Wednesday, February 13, 2013 7:41 PM
  • Hello Sean,

    It's a bit strange note from you: "do not use feature because it works only on 80% of machines". I don't mind if WU doesn't work on machine without Internet access. But I definitely want that machines in field are kept updated if possible, especially if they are connected to the Internet. And yes, I don't want to do this myself distributing patches to every customer. WU was designed for that and let it does its job.

    In my topic I'm talking about deployment image. I pointed that applying updates from WEDU looks extremely inefficient comparing with the WU in Audit mode. Nothing less, nothing more. Is there any updates that I might miss in WU (comparing with WEDU)?


    WBR, Nikolai

    Thursday, February 14, 2013 8:28 AM
  • Hello KNARZ,

    well, when I dig in to WinSxS size problem, I remember that I tried to use this tools and on Win7 it failed to scavenge old files. I can try it again, but... what's the advantage comparing to plain WU...

    About W8 cleanup provider: here you can see a discussion with "The windows servicing guy" from MS. According to him it's not possible to use W8 scavenging on W7. No such API whatever. 


    WBR, Nikolai

    Thursday, February 14, 2013 8:34 AM
  • you missunderstand me. I don't mean Windows\Installer folder. Dism based on several providers. Implementing / Stripping providers from Win8 to Win7 worked somehow (tested with dism /apply-wim function) and the cleanup-image has now /startcomponentcleanup or something similar as a function that removes old revisiosn from sxs. - But I haven't tested anything about this yet.

    Windows Embedded Developer and Scripting Guy //Germany (Preparing a blog about Windows Embedded Standard)

    • Edited by KNARZ Thursday, February 14, 2013 2:46 PM
    Thursday, February 14, 2013 2:46 PM
  • KNARZ,

    you didn't read the comments in that blog post I guess. It was not about MSI, but exactly about packages and cleanup.

    And the MS guy claimed that we can't properly implement cleanup in W7. I'm not sure that you can easily (apart of legality of that merge) update DISM and surrounding providers to W8. I guess we have to wait WES8 for that. Meanwhile I will abandon WEDU and will use WU. At least my image can fit DVD now...


    WBR, Nikolai

    Thursday, February 14, 2013 3:25 PM
  • Uh... many comments. I will read them maybe this week (at least the dism comments) ok.
    I also recommend to abandon WEDU, for the same reasons you listed.

    With my now project I will download regular updates from some kind of user managed list (windows update list and so on) and combine them with the ECE optional updates and then add them within the XML. This seems to be for me the best way to have to most current image with smallest impact.

    After that I will check once with WU (and implement any outstanding updates manually in the next Test-Image).
    In best case WU doesn't found anything.

    Windows Embedded Developer and Scripting Guy //Germany (Preparing a blog about Windows Embedded Standard)

    • Edited by KNARZ Thursday, February 14, 2013 5:55 PM
    Thursday, February 14, 2013 5:52 PM
  • It's not just the size of your WIM. The ICE estimator bloats and consistently underestimates, it says 6, your image is 8! You have no idea how windows manages to waste so much space! Doubtless W8 will be even worse. The WinSxS thing is a festering nightmare. I really do not need the five hundred copies of stuff that every "cumulative update for IE" leaves behind. I don't want anything but the latest and gratedest bits left behind. Indeed, given my druthers, I'd probably never use WEDU at all.

    Size, per se isn't a problem, I have a 12gb partition, I just don't understand what it is doing will all that space?

    We have no plans to ever update in the field. Run for 2 years or whatever, die, come home, flatten and rebuild, so I really don't need this backward compatibility with any of the 100 or so updates in the answerfile.

    As an experiment, I tried WU on two identical boxes. I had different numbers of updates...

    I don't like that game, too much to go wrong. I will stick with WEDU ^^;


    Friday, February 15, 2013 2:39 AM
  • PE,

    my point here is that if you remove all updates that WEDU adds to your DS (and xml) and then run the Windows Update in Audit mode and switch back to OOBE - you will get much smaller image. With the same security level. At a price of a bit more complex image creation.

    Image Editor problem that he adds _all_ updates even if some of them are outdated and superseded. As a result it applies all updates making WinSxS folder bloated to the max. Windows Update seems to be smarter and applies only recent updates.


    WBR, Nikolai

    Friday, February 15, 2013 9:33 AM