none
SDK attempting to contact data-vef.gtm.xboxlive.com RRS feed

  • Question

  • Hi,

    While debugging an issue with a large interactive installation using Kinect for Windows 2, we noticed that there are some attempts to reach out 134.170.179.134 and 134.170.178.144 (data-vef.gtm.xboxlive.com), which maybe related to our problems since those servers are unreachable from the client's network.

    Is there any particular reason the SDK is doing this?  How can we disable it?

    Friday, November 21, 2014 11:55 PM

Answers

  • Hi Ricardo, 

    We do collect telemetry information and none of that telemetry contains PII.  Collecting this across all K4W developers is critical for us to understand what components in the system are being used and are not meeting our levels of quality so that we can focus our engineering efforts on either working directly with the manufacturers or looking for workarounds in our code.  It also gives us insight into what are the most used parts of the product so we can focus our energies appropriately based on developer use.  This enables us to respond to and provide our developers and their customers with the best experience possible.  An example of this is understanding how many developers are using a particular USB controller.  There are known issues with various USB3 manufacturers and understanding which controllers K4W developers are using helps us prioritize the engaging of manufacturers and the drivers they provide.  Another example is our desire to reduce friction for our developers on just getting started with K4W.  For instance knowing how many developers are trying to install on an unsupported OS is a key indicator to us that we are not properly listing the HW requirements when a developer starts to download the SDK.  

    We also call out that we are collecting telemetry in the EULA in Section 1.B as part of the license agreement so we are not trying to be tricky.  Of course, if there is not a network connection, it will be impossible for us to collect the information that can help us improve the product and put our best foot forward in doing our best to improve the developer experience.  We have done extensive testing with K4W not having a network connection with no issues, but if that is not the case for you we would be more than happy to work with you to diagnose the problem and look to get it resolved on our side.  I apologize in advance if that is what is causing your application to fail.

    That aside, I am really interested in what your application does.  Do you have any links to your solution that I could see?  Super interested.

    Best,

    - Kevin

    Sunday, November 23, 2014 12:20 AM

All replies

  • I wonder is your code doing anything with KinectStudio API's or VGB api's?

    Sr. Enterprise Architect | Trainer | Consultant | MCT | MCSD | MCPD | SharePoint TS | MS Virtual TS |Windows 8 App Store Developer | Linux Gentoo Geek | Raspberry Pi Owner | Micro .Net Developer | Kinect For Windows Device Developer |blog: http://dgoins.wordpress.com

    Saturday, November 22, 2014 1:05 AM
  • Hi Dwight,

    Yes, we do use visual gesture builder for gesture recognition. Why?

    Saturday, November 22, 2014 9:38 AM
  • Because if i'm not mistaken, those code bases were branched from the xbox one's version of the respective apps. For example vgb is from xbox one's visual gesture builder aand Kinect studio is from its xbox one version. Taken from VGB WhitePaper. Here's the links:

    Innovative Solutions to Gesture Detection – Claude Marais & David Quinn, Game Developer

    Conference 2012.

    Gesture Detection using Machine Learning – Claude Marais, Gamefest 2011.

    Building Great Gesture Detection – Claude Marais, Game Developer Conference 2011.

    Xbox Studio Deep Dive: Designing, Debugging and Testing Your Kinect Title – Claude Marais, Game Developer Conference 2011.

    I wonder if some code for testing or pinging xbox live was left in accidently.

    Maybe MS can confirm


    Sr. Enterprise Architect | Trainer | Consultant | MCT | MCSD | MCPD | SharePoint TS | MS Virtual TS |Windows 8 App Store Developer | Linux Gentoo Geek | Raspberry Pi Owner | Micro .Net Developer | Kinect For Windows Device Developer |blog: http://dgoins.wordpress.com

    Saturday, November 22, 2014 2:22 PM
  • Hi Ricardo, 

    We do collect telemetry information and none of that telemetry contains PII.  Collecting this across all K4W developers is critical for us to understand what components in the system are being used and are not meeting our levels of quality so that we can focus our engineering efforts on either working directly with the manufacturers or looking for workarounds in our code.  It also gives us insight into what are the most used parts of the product so we can focus our energies appropriately based on developer use.  This enables us to respond to and provide our developers and their customers with the best experience possible.  An example of this is understanding how many developers are using a particular USB controller.  There are known issues with various USB3 manufacturers and understanding which controllers K4W developers are using helps us prioritize the engaging of manufacturers and the drivers they provide.  Another example is our desire to reduce friction for our developers on just getting started with K4W.  For instance knowing how many developers are trying to install on an unsupported OS is a key indicator to us that we are not properly listing the HW requirements when a developer starts to download the SDK.  

    We also call out that we are collecting telemetry in the EULA in Section 1.B as part of the license agreement so we are not trying to be tricky.  Of course, if there is not a network connection, it will be impossible for us to collect the information that can help us improve the product and put our best foot forward in doing our best to improve the developer experience.  We have done extensive testing with K4W not having a network connection with no issues, but if that is not the case for you we would be more than happy to work with you to diagnose the problem and look to get it resolved on our side.  I apologize in advance if that is what is causing your application to fail.

    That aside, I am really interested in what your application does.  Do you have any links to your solution that I could see?  Super interested.

    Best,

    - Kevin

    Sunday, November 23, 2014 12:20 AM
  • Hi Kevin,

    Can this telemetry be disabled?  The application is actually an interactive installation running on some major stores.  I can't guarantee that the end client network set up is consistently (different sites are likely run by different teams) and it would seem that in at least one of the locations access to these servers might be blocked (or the name might not resolve), which could be related to some occasional data stuttering we're seeing.

    To give you some more context: 

    • We have a large interactive installation powered by multiple Kinect sensors
    • Since we can only have one sensor per machine, body and gesture data is collected using my Kinect 2 Remote and sent to the render machine that actually powers the installation
    • Everything works fine on dev, the test environment and on one of the locations
    • On another location where the installation just got deployed, we sometimes see a lag of 300-400ms between data being sent and when it arrives.
    • The report I got was that this seems to be related to when there are attempts to contact those servers (the Wireshark analysis was run by the their IT people)

    I don't believe there's any video online yet - one of the installations is in Chicago and the other in Houston.  Feel free to send me an e-mail and I'll be happy to provide you with more details, since there are some restrictions on what I can say on a public site (can't use client trademarks without their permission on my properties - even if this is not my own site I'd rather err in the side of confidentiality).

    Cheers!




    Monday, November 24, 2014 11:34 AM
  • If there is no network the telemetry would just fail to send, but how is that affecting the application? It shouldn't be that different from launching a web browser trying to make a connection when there is no internet. What part of the application is affected by the network timeout? Is this Kinect specific or some other functionality?

    Did you install the full SDK, or did you just install the runtime/driver? The runtime can be found in the redist folder of the SDK install "KinectRuntime-v2.0_1409-Setup.exe"

    If this is an urgent matter and need direct phone support, I would recommend you open a support ticket through the Microsoft Support website: https://support.microsoft.com/ContactUs/TechnicalSupport, in the product field search for "Kinect for Windows Software Development Kit 2.0". They can work with you to troubleshoot further into the networking troubleshooting and possible system level traces. They can also engage the team if needed to troubleshoot further.


    Carmine Sirignano - MSFT

    Monday, November 24, 2014 6:13 PM
  • Hi Ricardo,

    We have tested without a network connection and we have not seen a scenario where the application fails when it can not send telemetry.  If you have a scenario that does that, then please work with Carmine to get the code to us so we can figure out what is going on.  We are also not aware of any performance degradation with telemetry trying to "call home".  

    If this is verifiable, we are more than happy to debug the scenario and provide a workaround so that your application is not impacted by this.  

    Tuesday, November 25, 2014 4:49 AM
  • Hi again,

    Thanks for the extra details. I've sent them this thread so they can review and confirm - I don't know if they installed just the runtime or the entire SDK.  I am flying a bit blind myself, since I'm not on site at where the issues manifest, mostly aiming to narrow down the possible culprits.

    Did by any chance they test when the attempt at resolving data-vef.gtm.xboxlive.com doesn't just fail right away but take a while to reply? 

    I'll let you know if they can provide clearer instructions to reproduce, or can narrow it down. Cheers!

    Tuesday, November 25, 2014 7:52 AM
  • You can test the scenario are your own network by disconnecting yourself from the internet (disconnect your cable from ISP) and see if you can reproduce. DNS lookups will fail and any request to contact the outside servers will fail as well. At that time, you can run any of the samples from the SDK browser and see if there are any Kinect related performance issues. This would be the testing that would have been performed on the feature.

    My assumption is you have some network stack issue that is affecting your application. Since Kinect has no networking dependency, you should still be getting 30fps(15fps for color in low light) from the Kinect runtime. Depending on how your application is getting that data and doing something over the internet is where the issue may be occurring. If the system network stack is in some unknown state(waiting for DNS resolution or other) how is your application resilient to this behavior. Is the networking calls you making a different thread than the operation of pulling data from Kinect?

    If the issue is on a DNS lookup failure, you may just want to modify the hosts file of the system to point the url to the loopback/localhost(127.0.0.1).

    http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-networking/how-can-i-reset-ms-host-files-in-windows-8/4057335b-6160-4073-aafb-4412db9db971


    Carmine Sirignano - MSFT


    Tuesday, November 25, 2014 8:34 PM