WPF is going be absent in First Vista Release
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Friday, February 03, 2006 10:46 PM
Hello all,
I am reading on some news groups that WPF is not going to be there in initial release of windows vista.
Does anyone knows more about it? I cannot imagine vista without WPF.
Any thoughts from experts ?
Thanks
Basav
All Replies
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Saturday, February 04, 2006 1:01 AMModeratorUntil it is final, it is not final. That said, the last I heard (At the Mobility group partner briefing this week), is that WPF will be on the Vista CD, but will be an optional component that the user must select to install. It will not be installed by default. This is largely because the WPF and WCF components install together, and WCF has a large security surface. The WPF surface is much smaller, but is not separately installable. The old school MS people in charge of the Vista release are dragging their heels about includeing WinFX by default. The people I talked to believe this is likely to change before release, and the more we can tell them we want this the better.
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Saturday, February 04, 2006 3:32 AMThis will be a problem. A lot of new programs based on WPF will be released when Vista come out. However, the producer of these programs have to tell the end user how to activate WPF before installing their program. This will prevent the fast acceptance of WPF.
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Saturday, February 04, 2006 4:20 AM
Lei Jiang wrote: This will be a problem. A lot of new programs based on WPF will be released when Vista come out. However, the producer of these programs have to tell the end user how to activate WPF before installing their program. This will prevent the fast acceptance of WPF.
This is expected, and nothing surprises me at all, how about stripping the .NET framework out of Windows Vista completely as they did with Windows XP?Sheva
Is this good for MS?
Another question is that although WPF is not installed by default in Vista,
Vista UI has all features WPF provided, such as animation. So is there
another set of API that could be used to build UI system? What's its
relation to WPF?
The question is, do we need WPF at all, if all same can be made without WPF?
Is it a new API or not?
Hmm this sounds messy
Does this mean that some vendors will be developing native Vista applications others WPF applications (.NET managed code)?
e.g. will there ever be a WPF version of Office?
Is there another "Great Wall": Someone are developing using WPF, while others (in MS) use some native API? In Office 12, you can see many effects that come with WPF. It's certain that the same effect can be achieved without WPF and MS has already done this. Is WPF another OS/2?
Here's an answer from and MS representative:
The answer is a resounding "no" as "replace" would imply that Win32 would no longer be supported. There are far too many applications that use Win32 for it to ever go away. At some point all new development may in fact be in WinFX and not Win32, but Win32 will continue to be a fully supported programming model. As I've mentioned before, Windows Vista has over 7000 new Win32 style APIs. And WinFX will ship with Windows Vista (not after). -- Lori Pearce [MSFT] Windows SDK Team "Timothy" <tripix@msn.com> wrote in message news:OLsdXUIJGHA.3904@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... > Hi all, > Just wondering if WinFX (System.Windows.Window) will ultimately replace > Win32 (System.Windows.Forms)? > > Thanks guys, > > Tim. > Posted from the newsgroups:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/newsgroups/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.developer.winfx.general&lang=en&cr=US
This is troublesome news, if it's true. Please, MS, shed some light on this. It would seriously affect my commitment to WPF if it's not pre-installed on Vista.
I had hopes that WPF would be a viable platform for some of my products within 2-3 years, but maybe I should think more like 5-10... I really need to know about the plans for roll-out if I'm to spend serious time learning it today.
Office 12 is not a WPF application as I understand it, it still is a significant percentage of unmanaged code, and some (perhaps 20 percent) managed.
It is scheduled to be released prior to WPF so could not rely on it. WWF will get released earlier since Office does use that significantly.
This means that effects in WPF could be achieved without WPF.
So why there is WPF? Is there any "native" version graphics library that is faster than WPF? I think the reason why the new Vista UI does not dependent on WPF is that WPF is slow.
It has been 4 days since this thread got started. No one from MS has posted anything here. MS Guys/Gals, this is right time for you to step in and clarify all that is being talked about here.
Deepak
| Jonas Beckeman wrote: | |
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This is puzzling to me, if your application is good, I doubt anyone who wants it is going to worry about installing the WinFX runtime. All we should really be worried about is MS making the install process as smoothe as possible.
Sorry for the delay. While nothing is ever certain until you see it in the final products, we are still on track to ship the WinFX bits (Windows Presentation Foundation, Windows Communication Foundation and Windows Workflow Foundation) in Windows Vista as well as making them available for Windows XP and Windows Server 2003.
Thanx,
Arik
Is the current plan that they will also be Installed By Default on Windows Vista?
If this is not the current plan, is there an official explanation as to why not?
Thanks.
Hi all,
I am Parimal Deshpande, product manager for Windows Presentation Foundation. Just got assigned this thread. Sorry for the delay. While nothing is ever certain until you see it in the final products, we are still on track to ship the WinFX bits (Windows Presentation Foundation, Windows Communication Foundation and Windows Workflow Foundation) in Windows Vista as well as making them available for Windows XP and Windows Server 2003.
Hope that answers your question.
Parimal
Product Manager | WPF | WinFX Marketing team
So, we can call WinFX/.NET and the rest managed stuff, an optional web applications platform, not really necessary for future desktop development. Great !!
I wish I knew that a few years ago, before getting involved with .NET 
Hi Parimal,
Thanks for the reply. You and Arik both said that Vista will ship with the WinFX bits, but you still have not answered the original question: will WinFX be installed by default on Vista?
Thanks.
As mentioned before WinFX will ship with Windows Vista as an OPTIONAL component as .NET shipped with Windows XP.
Vista will have .NET 2 Runtime installed by default.
Applications developed in .NET can be deployed via ClickOnce. ClickOnce technology allows you to install WinFX Runtime during the application installation.
WinFX will included functionality that is not available over Win32. WPF makes use of the graphics hardware installed on your pc. It lays on top of DirectX 10 and benefits from DirectX rendering.
The intend of WPF is to make developing rich user experiences easier. Tools like Sparkle will improve UI design.
When delivered, WPF will become Microsoft's strategic UI technology. But for now it is still a beta product which can't be used to develop applications like Office 12.
Remember when developing on WinFX began .NET 2.0 wasn't even in an Alpha stage.
There will be Microsoft WPF Applications as there are Microsoft .NET Applications.
The post by Ashish Shetty - MSFT that I received via "Alerts" doesn't seem to be here. Was that intentional, or can I share that information?
In any case, it was helpful. Thank you.
I don't understand that why WPF and WCF should be installed together. Could anyone explain this? Thanks!
Thanks for the information, J.C. Molnar.
Can you let us know if this is an official statement of Microsoft?
just because you are writing in a big font size doesn't make your writings more or less correct...
i, myself, will only believe an official statement of someone at microsoft than a big lettered post from sb i don't know...
I got my information from:
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2005/may05/05-23ManagedCode.mspx
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnlong/html/introwpf.asp
http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=245483&SiteID=1&PageID=1
I'm WinFX beta tester but not a Microsoft official. I'm working with Microsoft .NET for 6 years and was on all the beta programs.
Sorry to not respond for so long (I lost track of the thread).
Yes, WPF (along with WinFX) will be installed by default on Windows Vista.
I hope its going to be installed on WinXP through Service Pack 3 :)
and on Win2k3 on the next service pack release.
Would luv to use WinFX on some internal enterprise applications
In Feb CTP it's not installed by default. I hope it changes in release as you said.
That is correct (Windows Vista Feb CTP does not have it installed by default), but that just means we have some work to do :-) We're actually working on it right now...
For Windows XP and Windows Server 2003, it will be available via Windows Update and available for enterprises to deploy to their existing deployments.
-Arik Cohen
Looks like you're dropping all the hype. Does everyone out of this forums know this?
what about all the UI effects and renders currently achieved on Windows Vista(tm)? you mean that's all what? does the current CTP (Feb) includes any sign of Avalon? not...
and why not concentrate in having WinFX ready for Vista first, so when it ships it could come with it already????
Ok, all the WinFX stuff is already being beta released, and I've been testing it along with my Visual Studio 2005 Standard Edition. Also there is a "WindowsVistaSDK" download of about 1.0Gb that you could install to work under VS05... which is WinFX right? or are you guys developing a totally new OS under a "beta" development environment.. not right? then thats Win32 as you said...
I got a bit confused now... 
Sorry about the confusion -- that should teach me to post before my morning caffeine :-)
Currently (as of the Feb CTP of Windows Vista), WPF -- and the rest of the Windows Foundation Components for WinFX -- can be installed as an optional component on Windows Vista. The work being done right now is to get that to change that installation to happen by default.
You are absolutely correct about us focusing on WinFX for Windows Vista -- we want to make sure that the WinFX technologies are the BEST way to create applications that work great with Windows Vista -- and that those apps work great on Windows XP and Server 2003 as well. WinFX will be available on the day that Windows Vista ships -- and EVERY Windows Vista build has the appropriate matching WinFX components.
For those interested in the gory details: WPF actually shares a lot of code/infrastructure with some other components in Windows Vista (e.g., the new window manager, etc) -- so many of the WPF components are already installed by default on Windows Vista. Now -- it's just a matter of wrangling all the setup bits into one space (and test across the breadth of machine configurations, different OS variations and upgrade scenarios).
If I managed to confuse people further -- let me know what the issues are and I'll try and answer.
Thanx,
Arik
I need to convince my management to take the risk of developing the next version of our rich client application on WPF. Our application will ship the first half of 2007.
My management would be convinced if it knew that some components that are being shipped in Windows Vista will rely on the WPF API (not the underlying graphics technology, the .NET API). Are any such components being delivered in Windows Vista?
Thanks,
Adam Smith
