EW deleting "<" from "< br/>" in Design View - Horrible Bug!!!

Question

Sometimes it happens that when I work in  "Design View" that suddenly some of the < br/> in the Source Code are missing a "<"

Instead of <  br/> there is only br/ > (which will show on the website). I don't know what triggers it. It happens sometimes.

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Michael Janik

Answer 1

Why are you telling us? This is a user-to-user forum. You know that.

We can't help you. We've told you where to post these so-called bugs--on Connect.

When you keep posting stuff in here that we can't help with--and you know we can't--you're behaving like a common Internet troll.

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Answer 2

I posted this not as a question but as a discussion. I want to know what other users think about it. And please stop offending. 

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Michael Janik

Answer 3

" I want to know what other users think about it."

What I think?  It never happens to me, so there is not much to discuss.

Answer 4

" I want to know what other users think about it."

What I think?  It never happens to me, so there is not much to discuss.

Same here.

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Free Expression Web Tutorials
For an Expression Web forum with without the posting issues try expressionwebforum.com

Answer 5

Never have a problem. Clearly appears to be a user induced problem by working only in Design View.

Answer 6

Here's the thing, Michael...You keep finding "bugs" that aren't bugs. They are simply the result of your not knowing how to use the program. And you're acting like a drama queen about it--Horrible Bug!!! Three exclamation points just because you are trying to do stuff in the Design Pane that you aren't supposed to do.

WordPerfect has a function that allows you to view the code, because, unlike Word, WordPerfect puts the styling inline and there are times when the open and close of a style get screwed up while users are working in the program. It's been that way since at least WordPerfect 5.1--for DOS!!! Since 5.1 was released in 1989 (23 years ago), people have had to dip into WordPerfect's code view to clean up the occasional flub. That is the nature of working with a layer between you and the code.

It's not a bug. It's certainly not a 3-exclamation-point-bug!!!

Think about it logically--If it were a bug (!!!), you would not be the only person to have ever reported it. But you are. There are millions of people around the world using Expression Web, and you are the only one finding these "bugs". That's because they aren't bugs--they are user error--your user error. Learn how to use the program. Or get something simpler and more limited that you can work with.

And, while we're at it, I have to note that your web design work in not standards-compliant. You use old, outdated methods (using tables for page layout) that the W3C has deprecated, and that search engines don't understand well. You have set margins in cm (which mean nothing to a browser--they are a print measurement). You don't have font-families specified in any of the sites I have looked at, so you don't know what non-Windows users will see. You haven't used semantic markup in any site I see--which is very basic for helping search engines understand the content (yet you claim to know SEO).

And because you work in the Design Pane almost exclusively, your sites are bogged down with a huge amount of leftover garbage code. Here's one menu item from the Eiron site:
<font color="#FFFFFF" face="Arial" size="2"> Make the font white and Arial and size 2 (size 2 is interpreted differently in different browsers--bad idea)
<a class="speziell" href="index.htm"> Start the link.
<font color="#3C3C3C">Home</font> Whoops! Instead of white, make the text dark grey for Home, then end the dark grey section and go back to white text from here
</font> Now end the white text that the dark grey was embedded in the middle of.
<font color="#3C3C3C" face="Arial" size="2">&nbsp; &#9474;&nbsp; Now change the text back to dark grey again for 2 spaces and a pipe character
</font> Now turn off dark grey.

And you do that for every item in the menu! On, off, on, off, on, off, on, off. That is not professional work, and that is why you are having these problems--you don't know how to use a program like EW. That is not how a menu is supposed to look. You should set the color and font and size, etc., only once for the entire menu. And it's all because you haven't learned how to use Expression Web, and you certainly don't know HTML and CSS and SEO.

I'm not trying to offend you, but you haven't been listening to what we have been telling you. I would suggest that before you accuse Microsoft of producing bug after bug after bug, that you learn how to use the program and learn HTML, CSS, and SEO. You really shouldn't be charging for your services while you produce non-compliant code that is filled with so many mistakes.

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Answer 7

Here's what I mean, Michael. This is your menu for Eiron:
<div align="center">
 <font color="#FFFFFF" face="Arial" size="2">
  <a class="speziell" href="index.htm">
  <font color="#3C3C3C">Home</font></a></font><font color="#3C3C3C" face="Arial" size="2">&nbsp;
  &#9474;&nbsp;
  </font><font face="Arial" size="2">
  <a href="company.htm" class="menuanchorclass" rel="anylinkmenu1" style="text-decoration: none">
  <font color="#3C3C3C">Company</font></a><font color="#3C3C3C">&nbsp; &#9474;&nbsp;
  </font>
  <a class="speziell" href="products.htm">
  <font color="#3C3C3C">Products</font></a><font color="#3C3C3C">&nbsp;
  &#9474;&nbsp;
  </font>
  <a href="services.htm" class="menuanchorclass" rel="anylinkmenu3" style="text-decoration: none">
  <font color="#3C3C3C">Services</font></a><font color="#3C3C3C">&nbsp;
  &#9474;&nbsp;
  </font></font><font color="#FFFFFF" face="Arial" size="2">
  <a class="speziell" href="financing.htm">
  <font color="#3C3C3C">Financing</font></a></font><font color="#3C3C3C" face="Arial" size="2">&nbsp;
  &#9474;&nbsp;
  </font><font color="#FFFFFF" face="Arial" size="2">
  <a class="speziell" href="contact.htm">
  <font color="#3C3C3C">Contact</font></a><font color="#3C3C3C" face="Arial" size="2">&nbsp;
  &#9474;&nbsp;
  </font>
  <a class="speziell" href="imprint.htm">
  <font color="#3C3C3C">Imprint</font></a></font></div>

Here is what it should look like:

<div id="navigation">
 <ul>
  <li><a href="index.htm">Home</a> | </li>
  <li><a href="company.htm">Company</a> | </li>
  <li><a href="products.htm">Products</a> | </li>
  <li><a href="services.htm">Services</a> | </li>
  <li><a href="financing.htm">Financing</a> | </li>
  <li><a href="contact.htm">Contact</a> | </li>
  <li><a href="imprint.htm">Imprint</a></li>
  </ul>
</div>

That's it. That's all there should be on each page--none of the repetition, none of the useless leftovers from your experimenting. It's a simple CSS-styled menu based on an unordered list that displays horizontally--an industry standard that search engines understand. And all the styling should be in a separate CSS page that only has to load once and which would make my menu display just like yours, with every aspect of the menu defined only one time. That's how a professional would build that menu--neat and tidy and standards-compliant.

Open any of the website templates that come with EW and see how that type of menu works. And while you're at it, learn how to make your life so much easier with a master DWT for all of the basic layout of your site. You simply cannot keep using EW without knowing these basic, basic skills. You are floundering around aimlessly (it is clear in the code that you are), and you are accidentally messing up your sites, and blaming EW. You turned the color on and off 16 times in that little menu!!! Why? Because you don't understand how to do it right. There are only 7 links in the whole menu!!! That's ridiculous!!! What are you doing? Your code is a mess, and you're blaming MS when you screw it up.

If you are charging for your services, you have an obligation to deliver a standards-compliant product to your clients.

I know that you didn't come here to have your work critiqued. But it goes to the very core of what everyone has been telling you--you don't know how to use the program and you are blaming it instead of taking responsibility for the problems that you are creating. You really, really need to learn how to build web pages properly. Microsoft is clear on this--there are prerequisites for using this professional-level design tool. You haven't learned what you need to know. Stop blaming MS for the problems that you are creating for yourself. This "Bug!!!" isn't a bug. It's something you did wrong again. Understand?

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Answer 8

You left out the CSS, Bill. To implement what he had that you quoted, he'd also need...

#navigation a {
   font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
   font-size:.8em;
   color:#3C3C3C;
}

That could go in the <head> of each page, or, ideally, in the external style sheet that applies to all pages using that menu. BTW, I chose .8em as an approximation of font size "2," which, of course, is now deprecated, and which was always subject to different interpretations by different browsers.

Anyway, yeah, add that CSS to the markup you provided, and you could replace all that bloated, deprecated, hard to maintain garbage above it with modern, compliant easily maintained code. Of course, then you would be using EW the way it is supposed to be used, something the OP appears to be adamantly opposed to doing.

cheers,
scott

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Please remember to "Mark as Answer" the responses that resolved your issue. It is common courtesy to recognize those who have helped you, and it also makes it easier for visitors to find the resolution later.

Answer 9

Well, I didn't actually forget it. It was midnight and I was updating a client's website and I figured I'd done enough work for him, so I pointed him to any EW website template so that he could learn for himself how an unordered list could be turned into a horizontal menu that looked just like his by using a bit of CSS.

He clearly has done no work educating himself in proper website design, so I thought it was about time for him to make some effort.

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Answer 10

Plus you can get a rollover effect simply by adding:

#navigation a:hover {color: #000000;} /*substitute appropriate text color, add underline or background if you'd prefer */

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Free Expression Web Tutorials
For an Expression Web forum with without the posting issues try expressionwebforum.com

Answer 11

" I want to know what other users think about it."

What I think?  It never happens to me, so there is not much to discuss.

Same here

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Expression Web MVP

Answer 12

Come Bill and Paladin show us your beautiful web site: I can not find it in the search engines and in your profile.

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Michael Janik

Answer 13

By the way, Eiron.com is a page I created some years ago with Frontpage which automatically put more code inside. But this is not really a big problem because old and new browser can read it and display it with just minor differences. My newest page is here: hochzeitsplanung-mk.de and one of the first I created in EW.

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Michael Janik

Answer 14

@Bill Pearson

Hey Bill is this your site: billpearson.co.uk

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Michael Janik

Answer 15

And Cheryl: Is this your web site: http://wiserways.com/

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Michael Janik

Answer 16

@Paladyn 

Scott I can not find your web site. Come let me have another good laugh :-)

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Michael Janik

Answer 17

Here people: Watch and learn what is stylish web design: 

http://www.janik.cc/webdesign-referenzen.html

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Michael Janik

Answer 18

And Cheryl: Is this your web site: http://wiserways.com/

Try http://by-expression.com though I don't do any SEO on it or particularly care about SEO either.

WiserWays is ours as well but our website has never been intended as a marketing tool. SEO isn't something that we care about on WiserWays since it is a niche tool in a small section of the oil & gas industry.

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Free Expression Web Tutorials
For an Expression Web forum with without the posting issues try expressionwebforum.com

Answer 19

"My newest page is here: hochzeitsplanung-mk.de and one of the first I created in EW."

Oooh, very pretty. I especially like the effect when I zoom text and it overflows the containing div. Even cooler is when I disable images (like a screenreader for the visually impaired would) and the page disappears into a black hole without even any alt text for navigation. What kind of SEO do you do for a site that hardly contains any text, let alone navigation or headings?

Oh well, from the tone of your comments, you obviously figure you know much more about web design than those who respond here, so I'm not sure why you even bother to frequent the forum. I'm willing to admit that I have a lot to learn, and that others know more about web design and SEO. Some people apparently don't feel the same. Another name has been added to my list.

Jim

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'Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death. Thomas Paine

Answer 20

Is this your web site? : http://www.fcphd.org/

hahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahaahahahahah

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Michael Janik

Answer 21

But hey. Nothing overflows when you zoom text. Hahahahaahah. 

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Michael Janik

Answer 22

And the most pictures do have alt Text. Jesus - maybe you need better spectacles!!!

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Michael Janik

Answer 23

Hey Bill and Scott - I am still waiting for your web sites. Only Jim mad me laugh today with his one. I want more..... :-)))))

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Michael Janik

Answer 24

At least Cheryl D Wise had the guts to show her work.

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Michael Janik

Answer 25

No, I wasn't trying to show you anything. Merely correcting your apparent inability to follow links signatures or the FAQ that reference my site.

Beyond that, you've now managed to achieve something only one other person has managed to do on this forum and that's to get plonked. Hope you enjoy posting to yourself.

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Free Expression Web Tutorials
For an Expression Web forum with without the posting issues try expressionwebforum.com

Answer 26

Michael, this pony stopped breathing a long time ago.

Give it a rest.

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Expression Web MVP

Answer 27

Must admit I have a similar problem on www.bcsoccerweb.com typically with the opening carat and sometimes the backslash as well of </a> being deleted in one or more links quite remote from where I have been editing the body of the page in design view or split screen code view.  I can go for days editing every day without the problem occurring then all of a sudden there it is.  Very annoying. Haven't been able to identify anything that I do that might trigger it.

Answer 28

Richard, I think you would get more response if you started a new thread. Unfortunately, this one went bad and started to smell long ago.

After a quick look, I didn't see any obvious reason for the problem. However, with scripts, iframes, etc. there is more likelihood of errors when you select items in design view.

BTW, it's always good to see soccer news, especially when it is relatively close to my area. Personally, as a true football fan in a hardcore American football region, I'm counting down the days until the Manchester Derby this Sunday!

Jim

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'Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death. Thomas Paine

Answer 29

Thank you Jim, 

I forgot, the selection Bug could cause it. Thanks Jim for the hint. 

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Michael Janik