Buggy Undo still present in EW4

Question

I was in the very hopy the Buggy Undo problem (hitting Ctrl-Z throwing you back to the start of editing) would be gone in EW4. I worked on several pages with EW4 today and experiened it again.

This must be system specific, however, I experienced this in all versions from EW1 till EW4. It survived a change of PC inbetween, a change of OS from XP over Vista to Win7 + a switch from MS Office 2003 to 2010. BTW, I never had it in any of the other MS office programs (Word, Excel...). I suspect, it's an interference with some other software or setting which I have been using all the way ... but who knows.

In already know, I have to save my work very often. At least those, who experienced this before, will agree: This is very annoying. Would be interesting to know, if I'm the only victim so far.

Kind regards, Michael

Answer 1

Never had the problem and I use the product all day long.

Answer 2

FYI, Expression Web is not an Office application and what code that was borrowed from Office in the first two versions have been removed in v3 & later.

There is a small minority of people who have the buggy undo problem. A few of the problems have been fixed from v1 through the current version but there seem to be a multiple triggers yours may not be one of the ones they've found a cause for and fixed.

---

MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com

Answer 3

We've had a few complaints about this, enough to make it pretty clear that we didn't manage to stamp out all of these issues.  Unfortunately, we have not been able to repro the problems ourselves, and nobody has ever managed to provide a set of steps that will allow us to.  Find me that repro and I will personally guarantee to fix the bug.  Without it, there's not much I can do.

---

Paul Bartholomew, Microsoft Expression Web

Answer 4

Paul,

I can only offer two things:

(i) If anyone who experiences the Buggy undo as well is willing to contact me and to co-operate with me in an effort to locate the error I'll gladly assist.

(ii) If I find some spare time (not at the moment), I'll try to collect as much info as possible and file a bug report (where?). Maybe a dedicated editing run with some trials of provoking the error might help (I am under the expression it's mostly/always connected with shifting/inserting/editing of images or image properties; I don't recall having experinced it while editing pure text, but this has to be confirmed).

Thanks for your care, Michael

 

Answer 5

(ii) If I find some spare time (not at the moment), I'll try to collect as much info as possible and file a bug report (where?).

Bug reports can be filed via the Submit Feedback button at http://connect.microsoft.com/Expression.  In this case, though, you're also welcome to send the information directly to my microsoft.com e-mail address, paulbart.  I *really* want to fix this so any information you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

---

Paul Bartholomew, Microsoft Expression Web

Answer 6

Thanks, Paul, this is a great offer. Right now I don't find the time, but later on (say, within 2 weeks) I'll send you detailed info on my system configuration (incl. installed software and perhaps some info on hardware) which I hope will be relevant. I'll include links to the websites concerned, and EW settings which might relevant, too. Kind regards, Michael

Answer 7

Michael, I suspect that the real problem will be unrelated to the software you have installed or to your hardware configuration.  The way the Undo stack works is, roughly, we add a "start undo" item, then whatever command(s) you executed and that would need to be undone, then an "end" item.  What is almost certainly happening here is that we're missing an "end" item for one or more of these commands.  Without that, the next command(s) you execute in Expression Web will also be added to the Undo stack as part of that original command.  A single Undo, in that case, would undo more than one command.

In Expression Web 3, SP1, we went through that code line by line and found three such instances of missing "end" items.  Judging from the reports, there is at least one more to find.  What I really need is either the specific command or sequence of commands that leads to the problem, or *something* that is common to every time you see the problem, e.g., your hunch that it might be related to inserting images or adjusting image properties.

If you can confirm, for example, that it really is connected to inserting images, that's a huge help, as I can then turn our testers and developers loose on this, focusing on that one specific area.  Without that information, we're flying blind.  Help me pin this down and you'll have not only my gratitude but also your fellow users' gratitude, and I'll throw in a free upgrade to the next version of Expression Web.  As I said, I *really* want this fixed.

---

Paul Bartholomew, Microsoft Expression Web

Answer 8

Dear Paul,

thanks for the hint. Based on this, I will try to find some series of commands or more or less reproducable situations where it happens (and perhaps exclude a few others).  As I said, within a couple of weeks or so.

Kind regards, Michael

 

Answer 9

Hello there everyone!

I am able to reproduce the steps in Expression Web 2! The undo function is messed up there as well.

 

Now, pressing the little down arrow next to the undo button works just fine, however the button itself undoes a long, long way back. Sometimes a few steps, sometimes my work has been reverted to the very first edit, others--->occasional reversion to blank slate!

 

This happens the most when I insert content. It also happens a lot when I edit properties. I edit a few CSS changes to my page and it behaves in that way.

 

Simple text edits along my path are fine and simple changes.

 

Major property edits, insertions, and any CSS related changes throw this undo bug.

 

the build I have is as follows:

12.0.4518

 

This is the one with the black interface.

 

I am using this on multiple platforms with the same issue.

 

I will upload a FRAPS capture video upon request.

Answer 10

Go file your bug report with video at http://connect.microsoft.com under the Expression Studio Feedbck group. This is a user to user forum and MS is not likely to see your post or respond to it.

---

MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com & Expression Web forums

Answer 11

Un timely reply to your post...

Just read it.  

I have ew4 with this undo bug. Want to use the program as I moved up to it from FP2003 and it's a shorter learning curve.

 

The bug consistently shows up and  seems to happen when there are multiple actions held in the cache. not defined by image or text,,, just multiple.

I read several posts that were from people who had desktop systems and they didn't experience the problem.

Iwondered if it was more recuring on laptop useage?

 

Hope you get this.  I'd really like to get this fixed.

Answer 12

Look at the dates.  Paul is no longer on the EW team.  Use the previously mentioned Connect site to report specific bugs, with explicit details on how to reproduce the bug.  (No, it doesn't happen on my laptop, by the way.)

Answer 13

I wrote this to Micheal_Jena - 3 posts up.

-------------------------

I have ew4 with this undo bug. Want to use the program as I moved up to it from FP2003 and it's a shorter learning curve.

The bug consistently shows up and  seems to happen when there are multiple actions held in the cache. not defined by image or text,,, just multiple.

I read several posts that were from people who had desktop systems and they didn't experience the problem.

Iwondered if it was more recuring on laptop useage?

Hope you get this.  I'd really like to get this fixed.

--------------------------------

 

This occurred to me afterward.

I Have noticed that in the list of actions to be undone, There seem to be several steps that I took missing from the list.

Answer 14

Hi KathyW2 + Sky-55,

I still experience this bug, on at least two sites which I maintain. I m under the impression it's connected to certain structures/procedures I use which some people use and others don't.

This is not on a laptop but on a desktop PC. However, when I'm (rarely) on the laptop I experience it, too. I am experiencing this bug from time to time since EW1 including all intermediate versions.

I filed a quite detailed case study to Paul on a reproducible case where I hit this error. This was months ago, and Paul had already left the team (as I detected afterwards when the mail bounced). This report as such is no longer valid as the corresponding page has changed in numerous ways in between.

I must admit, I've given up on this one and choose just to live with it (I just lack the time for further research) - despite it is very annoying indeed :-(

Kind regards, Michael

Answer 15

Listen, jocko, you inconsiderate churl, this is a forum. You don't write anything "to" someone. Every post to a thread goes into the same thread, and in this case, unnecessarily reactivates a thread which has already been marked answered, so thanks to your rudeness and inconsideration, someone else's question has been pushed off the first page where it might have had a chance to be seen and answered.

Michael is not an MS employee, is not in tech support, and has not been back since that post. You were told where to go to report a bug. This is not tech support. Please stop ignoring forum etiquette and report your issue to someone who gives a damn and can do something about it. We cannot, capisc'?!

---

Please remember to "Mark as Answer" the responses that resolved your issue. It is common courtesy to recognize those who have helped you, and it also makes it easier for visitors to find the resolution later.

Answer 16

Dear paladyn,

Isn't this a bit harsh? BTW, Paul had invited me to file a reproducible bug report to his Microsoft address (see his contribution from June 22 1010 still in this thread).  This is exactlky what I did (granted with some delay, but I did).  Did I do anything wrong?

Regards, Michael

 

Answer 17

Sorry, Michael. That was not meant for you, but for Sky. Just an unfortunate simultaneous cross-post. After looking at your profile, I gathered that you hadn't been back for a while, and certainly not to this thread, anyway.

The part about reactivating the thread (which is expressly discouraged in the forum posting guidelines) was aimed at him, and was accurate. Some unfortunate questioner now has his thread relegated to the back pages because this dead, already answered thread was needlessly reactivated. But, that is certainly not your fault at all, and I apologize if the regrettable timing made it appear that my reply was directed to you.

cheers,
scott

---

Please remember to "Mark as Answer" the responses that resolved your issue. It is common courtesy to recognize those who have helped you, and it also makes it easier for visitors to find the resolution later.

Answer 18

I still experience this bug, on at least two sites which I maintain. I m under the impression it's connected to certain structures/procedures I use which some people use and others don't.

Michael, apparently there are multiple triggers to the multiple undo bug. Some of which have been tracked down and fixed others, well are still there. I've had it happen on one site and have no clue what was causing it since there was nothing obviously different between it and other sites I work on.

---

Free Expression Web Tutorials
For an Expression Web forum with without the posting issues try expressionwebforum.com

Answer 19

Dear Cheryl,

the report I filed to Paul via PM ist still in my "Sent" folder. It describes the steps I did for triggering a buggy undo at that time. While the relevant pages of both sites have changed since then, the general structures and the elements used are still pretty much the same. Thus, if anyone of the expression web developers (or anyone else) feels this might be of help, I'd gladly send him or her this report via PM.

As Paul stated, it ist pretty certain that this issue is neither linked to the OS (XP, Win7...) or 3rd party software nor the machine but to specific structures/procedures used on site (from my memory, several stages of copying of image constructs are a favorite).

Kind regards, Michael

Answer 20

Michael,

Post it on connect since unless Jim Cheshire is willing to look at it. He's the only MS person still posting here. That way it will  at least get to someone on the EW triage team. I don't have any other suggestions for you.

---

Free Expression Web Tutorials
For an Expression Web forum with without the posting issues try expressionwebforum.com

Answer 21

Michael,

Post it on connect since unless Jim Cheshire is willing to look at it. He's the only MS person still posting here. That way it will  at least get to someone on the EW triage team. I don't have any other suggestions for you.

---

Free Expression Web Tutorials
For an Expression Web forum with without the posting issues try expressionwebforum.com

 

Posting to connect done. Hope it will help.

Regards, Michael