Expression Web 5??

Question

Just curious, is Expression Studio 5 currently under development? Any status on release date? ..features? etc?

Answer 1

MS doesn't tell us anything here that isn't publicly announced.

Answer 2

And MS does not announce future plans, even for point releases or service packs. In that, they are like Adobe, Corel, IBM, and other major vendors. I imagine that they may consider, probably rightly, that if knowledge is available that a newer version will be released in a couple-three months, current sales will go into the toilet. Think about it...

cheers,
scott

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Answer 3

Of course, the no tell policy doesn't apply so much to browsers 'cause they're given that booty away.

Answer 4

A couple points:

1.) I don't think Expression Studio is such a hot product that news of a new release would have any real negative impact on sales, especially in light of my second point.

2.) Consider the results of what MS did for Windows 7 and Office (flagship products mind you). Having betas and release candidates (whether public or private) have only brought about significantly better products. Doing likewise for Expression Studio 5 would be the smartest thing MS could do, especially if they want to compete with Adobe's Dreamweaver (which is entirely overrated in my opinion). I think it's just a matter of priorities for MS and perhaps Expression Studio isn't one of them?

A bit more transparency from MS regarding this product would surely result in a win-win situation not only for end users but also MS. Agreed?

Answer 5

I think MS has done a pretty profitable job of running their business without our input into their marketing plans. After all, the only reason to want to know is just for curiosity's sake. Without knowing what new features or changes will be included, the information about a release date pointless. And a beta testing program, whatever its perceived value, adds a huge layer of complexity to the development cycle (especially for a niche product developed by a smallish team)..

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Deep down, I'm real shallow.

Answer 6

Of course its under development. MS usually has at least two versions under development at the same time for all their applications that aren't being dropped. How else could the public preview of IE 10 be released less than a month after the release of IE9.

However, MS rarely provides release date information on their applciations until they are released to manufacturing. There hasn't been a public preview or beta of any version of Expression Web since the first release so it is unlikely there will be one for v5 either. So until MS makes an announcement I doubt anyone here will know and even if they did it there would be a NDA that would prevent them from talking about it here or anywhere else in public.

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Free Expression Web Tutorials
For an Expression Web forum with without the posting issues try expressionwebforum.com

Answer 7

Weather it is new cars or computer software when the window (no pun intended) of marketing opportunity opens they will release a new version or an update or what ever will maximize sales and increase their market share.  And as long as these actions or what ever provide fixes for known issues or some new tools to steam line the production process it's a win win situation.  Some say under promise and over deliver others think more like If I do not make any promises I wont break any promises.

IMHO,

MIKE E

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"It's like déjà vu all over again." — Yogi Berra

Answer 8

Dear Forum,

 

Since the last update we have indeed seen SP1 and SP2 released which was indeed good news as it resolved some of my problems. Given the release of the SP's Does this mean there will be no EW 5 on the horizon?

kind regards

Kevin

Answer 9

Oh, come on! What kind of question is that?

They release SPs for all their software and new versions come along on a regular basis for all of them. Why would EW be any different?

If you read the thread, you'll see your answer. MS doesn't share that information in advance.

EW5 will come when it comes. Nothing anybody can do.

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Some people are like Slinkys; not really good for anything...but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

Answer 10

Good heavens! Did you even read the damned thread?

Service Packs are not major releases.

Microsoft does not provide advance information about releases, major or minor.

If they did provide information to some people, those people would be under an agreement not to reveal that information.

Knowing whether a new release of EW is "on the horizon" (What the hell does that mean? Next month? Next calendar year? A year from now?) is absolutely pointless. What would one do with that information?

The product is as productive as its major competition in its present form. Use it for what it is intended for and worry about the next version when it arrives.

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Answer 11

A bit more transparency from MS regarding this product would surely result in a win-win situation not only for end users but also MS. Agreed?

I can't see a big plus in an early announcement. As in any business, you sell what you have until you have something else to sell. Besides, why tip your hand to the competition?

That said, there is one strange thing about the EW evolution, which is probably the result of the chaos surrounding EW3. In the service packs for EW4 we've been given a striking number of new features. I've not seen anything like it before - SPs are usually about bug repair. My theory is that the bug repair process for EW3 consumed the time that would have otherwise gone into EW4, with the result that EW4 arrived with an almost non-existant new feature set and, of course, was given to EW3 owners at no charge. In other words, I think all these new service pack features are actually delayed EW4 features.

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Will
Baltimore, MD USA - www.fastie.com

Answer 12

Dear All,

My apologises to all for not reading the thread. Sorry for wasting everyones time.

Kind regards

Kevin

Answer 13

And MS does ... into the toilet. Think about it...

cheers,
scott

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Actually, the way I remember Windows 2000 is that it was LOUDLY announced and schools etc went crazy buying up cheaper Windows 98, generating record profits for downgraded software.

Totally agree with your cautious approach, though. These are tough times,, and platform development corporations are spending lots finding ways to cut corners. Not going to write anything inciteful here, but we all know what the word "REDUNDANCY" means.

THanks for a 'flushing review!'

Answer 14

Of course, the no tell policy doesn't apply so much to browsers 'cause they're given that booty away.

Right, and so you get all lined up for HTML5-CSS3 with Expression ... only to find transform went missing. You are right, and like browsers, editors demand lots of user patience. Not that being first across the line helps either.

everyone except safari:
border-radius: 10px 20px;

safari:
-webkit-border-radius-top-left: 10px
-webkit-border-where-my-hair: ... [point taken]

I just hope Web5 gets all the html5 and css3 editor support competitive with DW cs5.5
What do they call that? Technology comfort zone?

type a selector: popup with full list of keyb sensitive values
type a value: popup with full list of keyb sensitive variables
... lots they missed in Studio 4

Being artistically creative, that sample anywhere on the desktop Pick Color, Select ... while coding excuses everything for the next 5 billion years ... but still, what's code without popup direction these days?

Answer 15

Read my reply to Time Bandit, above:

type a selector: popup with full list of keyb sensitive values
type a value: popup with full list of keyb sensitive variables
... lots still missing in Studio 4, to keep pace with DW (and therefore anything freeware coded with characteristic Adobe interest far away from Redmond WA.

In context now, adding 'missing' to version 5 is so expected, it's not going to sing with the birds this spring.

Fastie? Lady Godiva MVP and FontPage forever enthusiast?

Answer 16

WOW,

Please STOP replying to old threads without any useful information.  You are dragging them up to the top of the thread when current topics get pushed down.  It's not proper behavior on this forum.

Answer 17

A google search result has nothing to do with the thread's age.  Look at the dates before you reply, read the entire thread, and don't reply to old threads, especially those that have been marked answered.

Answer 18

Well here it is, 1 year + since the question was asked and still nothing about a new release.  For all the comments that Microsoft has two versions in work, etc. etc...  An announcement, or better yet, a beta does have a valid purpose.  It demonstrates to those who have committed to the product that Microsoft isn't about to do to Expression Studio what they've done to applications like Microsoft Accounting and core functionality like Indexing Service.  Even in Expression Web Microsoft replaced their own product with purchased functionality.  Dropping scripting from the development environment was not appreciated.

Unfortunately, this isn't a one-time thing. I've had Microsoft cut the legs out from under applications that I've used to support my business and from core functionality that I've implemented as part of business solutions that made up a large chunk of my income.

Since Microsoft has moved towards adopting standards and dropped the old FrontPage-specific features I find less and less tying me to Microsoft development tools.  The longer we go without something new in Expression the more likely it is that I'll move to a product whose developers demonstrate a commitment to ongoing support.

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Andy

Answer 19

Fine. Move. We don't care; we're users. Many of us use other programs, including Dreamweaver, which is where you'll move, since it's the only professional-level competitor to EW.

MS Office is on, roughly, a 3-year cycle. EW has been more frequent, but probably because it's new-ish. I expect longer time between new releases now that it has matured.

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Titanic, the movie, as CSS:

@mixin iceberg {
     float: none;
}

#titanic {
     @include iceberg;
}

Answer 20

And when you make the move to Dreamweaver, you'll find just as many quirks and things to complain about as with Expresison Web. I'm using it in teaching a course at Loyola University Maryland this semester and I'd rather not.

Because I'm a PHP developer, as things stand today I would probably choose Dreamweaver if I was coming to both products fresh, with no preconceptions. But as someone who has used the FP/EW franchise for 14 years, uses the program every day, and recognizes that DW is imperfect as well, there is nothing compelling to make me move. Microsoft's release schedule is pretty low on my checklist.

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Will
Baltimore, MD USA - www.fastie.com

Answer 21

Andy,

"Well here it is, 1 year + since the question was asked ..." and here you are digging up an old thread that explained the topic was not something that can be answered here, and a couple months after it was explained that old threads should not be dug up.

We don't care what tool you use.

Geesh, I wish the moderators had an easy way to automatically lock old threads.

Answer 22

Andy,

"Well here it is, 1 year + since the question was asked ..." and here you are digging up an old thread that explained the topic was not something that can be answered here, and a couple months after it was explained that old threads should not be dug up.

We don't care what tool you use.

Geesh, I wish the moderators had an easy way to automatically lock old threads.

I check back here from time to time, just to see if there is any discussion on EW 5. This thread fulfilled the need perfectly. Thanks 

Answer 23

Why in god's name would you check back here "to see if there is any discussion on EW5".

We don't know anything about EW5 (or EW6, or EW7, or EW8...). That has been made perfectly clear in every such thread. MS doesn't tell us anything, so any discussion is just so much hot air, usually initiated by noobs who have never contributed anything to the forum.

Or were you just being a troll provocateur with that comment, TB? 

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Answer 24

Or were you just being a troll provocateur with that comment, TB?

Heh, heh... I got a distinct flavor of tongue-in-cheekness from that post, Bill. ;-)

cheers,
scott

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Please remember to "Mark as Answer" the responses that resolved your issue. It is common courtesy to recognize those who have helped you, and it also makes it easier for visitors to find the resolution later.

Answer 25

Well then he's too subtle by half.  ;-)

My post was really directed at the noob of the future, who stumbles upon the thread and takes TB's post as an invitation and encouragement. It was one last shot across the bow of the next clueless oik who thinks he has something to add concerning his feelings about the then-current state of EW and MS.

So, sorry, TB, if I took the wind out of your sails.

But to the next chowderhead who thinks he is the perfect person to ressurect this pointless thread, take heed. We have ways of dealing with the likes of you, ummmm, errrrr, uhhhh...except, of course, locking the thread, which would be the logical course of action. Grrrrrr.

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Titanic, the movie, as CSS:

@mixin iceberg {
     float: none;
}

#titanic {
     @include iceberg;
}

Answer 26

I believe some of you would benefit greatly from studying a book called The Mood Cure and using recommendations in it. Start by taking a test: http://moodcure.com/take_the_mood_type_questionnaire.html. Also read A Weekend with Julia Ross, Author of The Mood Cure.

That wasn't an advertising. It was an expression of my desire to help those here who are evidently "on the edge".

Answer 27

Why in god's name would you check back here "to see if there is any discussion on EW5".

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Because Bill, in the past this board has been a source of information about where we might find info about future releases.  As evidence I submit the following thread as an example: http://social.expression.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/web/thread/18b9cf98-dd9f-4394-a785-6fdcfe04072f

From that thread quote Will Fastie:

It sounds like EW4 is iminent, perhaps no more than a month or so. Upgrade policies like this are usually not posted until the company has a good idea of when the new release will come and that date is close, and the reason is usually to prevent current sales from drying up too soon.

So this is probably doubly good news - free upgrade and any day now!

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Will
Baltimore, MD USA - www.fastie.com

Answer 28

That thread references an official announcement, which is the entire point we have been making.  Asking here does not do anything. Wait for official annoucements. Notice that the pointer to the announcement was in a new thread, not tacked onto an old one.

Will's post you are quoting was pure speculation.  You could have made that post yourself with equal authority.

Answer 29

Will's post you are quoting was pure speculation.  You could have made that post yourself with equal authority.

Which is to say, none at all. In your own final post to that thread, you correctly pointed out the fallacies in Will's presumptions. Of course, when one is selectively quoting from a thread to support one's argument, it is prudent to avoid recognizing valid, but dissenting, statements from that same thread...

cheers,
scott

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Answer 30

It's a shame secrecy is maintained like that.

I bought Frontpage all the way back when it was Vermeer Frontpage 1 and all the way up to Frontpage 2003. And then Microsoft just dumps it. Dumps me and my 5 small business web sites.

Express Studio 4 is now ancient and they either are going to discontinue it or if I buy it now, the new program will come out the day after and a bunch of stuff will be discontinued or not compatible.

The curt but accurate innuendo on here appears to be, "Buy Dreamweaver, it will be around for awhile".

Thanks

Answer 31

Oh, stop making things up! MS didn't dump your "5 small business websites"! The Front Page program was supported long after MS stopped publishing new versions, and FrontPage websites are still littering every corner of the Web. Even FrontPage websites that rely on FrontPage Server Extensions (the end of which was announced in 2006) are still working (on fewer and fewer servers).

Your sites didn't magically vanish when MS failed to issue a new version of FP. Whine, whine, whine.

MS had to dump FrontPage. As everyone knows, FrontPage was a dead end in the evolving web. Its nonstandard, proprietary code, developed for a time when IE ruled the browser market had no chance in the real world. And that was a decade ago. Standards are even more important now, with so many platforms and browsers. Nobody is developing support for FPSEs and old proprietary FP code on Android and iOS devices.

Expression Studio is ancient? Ancient? That's just dumb. It's newer that Microsoft's latest Office suite! Do you not realize that? And Expression Web 4 has had two service packs. And Blend 5 has been released for preview.

What could someone who is still lamenting the death of FrontPage possibly need that isn't in Expression Web4?

Secrecy is maintained by every company. Secrecy keeps competitors from getting a jump on something new and--especially for hardware--it keeps sales of existing inventory from plummeting. You aren't seriously claiming that MS is different from any other company in that regard, are you?

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Time travel!
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That's irrelevant!

Answer 32

Express Studio 4 is now ancient and they either are going to discontinue it or if I buy it now, the new program will come out the day after and a bunch of stuff will be discontinued or not compatible.

Oh, horsepucky! What has MS "discontinued" or made "not compatible" from one version to the next of EW before? Oh, wait, except for legacy features from FrontPage, like Shared Borders, that finally began to trash sites beginning with EW4. Oh, yeah, and the Layout Tables menu and Panel, which vanished after EW3. Yeah, stuff like that, and good riddance.

The curt but accurate innuendo on here appears to be, "Buy Dreamweaver, it will be around for awhile".

Yeah, right. And if you're a typical FrontPage user, you'll be so bloody lost in Dreamweaver that you won't be able to even open your "5 small business web sites," much less update them to current, standards-based sites. And that's after you've paid FIVE times as much for Dreamweaver as you would have for EW. Yeah, so you're feeling froggy, eh? You go right ahead and jump to DW, and have fun with that learning curve...

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Answer 33

I wish MS would at least indicate if they have anyone working on the next release still.

Answer 34

What is so lacking in the current release?   If MS dropped all future versions, you'll still have a perfectly valid HTML and CSS editor that you could use for many years.  Why the concern?

Answer 35

I agree with Time Bandit. I like to at least know that updating my tool of choice is ongoing. As a DW and EW user the one thing I notice is that DW seems more current with mobile and responsive design. Overall I still like Ew because its just easier ( or am I just more used to it?) and for now it is my primary tool. That said- I would like to see a V-5 that addresses the above issues. I often have thought that EW and DW are not really in the same class. DW has so much more third party support that this is the big hook that demands a higher price. Compatible third party material for EW is just a fraction and of course the community embraces DW by a much wider margin.

I wish for MS to compete with DW full on- and I suspect that the latest and greatest version of EW will do so. Ew is still making inroads into the DW dominated market. We send some of our people to classes and I note that DW has a huge lead in available educational channels. The student editions are on a par with EW cost wise ( or close) and I was told that Adobe gives away a lot to educators. Of the 4 local schools not one offers EW but all offer DW. Maybe MS could change this by focusing on that channel.  

Answer 36

 We send some of our people to classes and I note that DW has a huge lead in available educational channels. The student editions are on a par with EW cost wise ( or close) and I was told that Adobe gives away a lot to educators. Of the 4 local schools not one offers EW but all offer DW. Maybe MS could change this by focusing on that channel.  

Bob, MS gives EW away to students enrolled in high school or college see https://www.dreamspark.com/ It is also part of the Academic package that college license. I know because I've taught classes of community college professors who at first wanted to teach only SharePoint becuase the first couple of months Expression Studio was not included in the academic package but MS added back in late Jan. 2007. MS has quite a bit of outreach to the academic community including courseware free comparable to the Adobe courseware (which in my view is not partiularly well done by either company.)

Frankly, I've been appalled at what some of the schools are still teaching. Forget mobile or responsive design. Some of them are still teaching Frontpage and table based layouts in their Dreamweaver classes. I sat in on some of the Dreamweaver session since I run the largest non Adobe Dreamweaver mail list and have been an Adobe Dreamweaver expert. Okay that was a couple years ago but from the posts I see on my Dreamweaver list tables are still being taught for layout in some schools.

BTW, responsive design isn't new and other than some snippets that allow you to easily add stylesheet references using CSS media queries I don't really see what additional support for mobile there is in Dreamweaver CS 5-6. They do have better emulator previews than EW but if that's your primary concern you should be testing on the devices directly not on emulators since they are only so-so. That's why I have an iPhone (you could also use an iPod Touch if you want the same experience at a lower cost), iPad, Android based tablet and a few other devices that folks use to connect to the internet (game consoles for example).

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Free Expression Web Tutorials
For an Expression Web forum with without the posting issues try expressionwebforum.com

Answer 37

Maybe MS could change this by focusing on that channel.

MS is at a disadvantage because DW has both Mac and PC versions.

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Will
Baltimore, MD USA - www.fastie.com

Answer 38

 If you do a Google search on 'Silverlight is dead' you will see many articles popup. It seems that SL just might be on it's way out and I would think Expression Blend is on it's way out too. The only great product in Expression Studio is 'Web'. I'm thinking Things will be changing with the whole Expression brand...  

Answer 39

Blend is on its way out???

Blend 5 was released to preview long ago in order to help developers with the new Windows phone interface (and subsequent Windows 8 release).

And if you google "silverlight is dead", the "articles" that pop up are no more than idle speculation, as are all the pointless, speculative posts in this thread.

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Time travel!
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Answer 40

Maybe MS could change this by focusing on that channel.

MS is at a disadvantage because DW has both Mac and PC versions.

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Will

And also because, unlike their industry-leading, 800-lb.-gorilla Microsoft Office suite, they do not have a compelling suite for creative professionals. Every version of Dreamweaver that I have obtained from DW CS3 to DW CS6, inclusive, has basically come along for the ride when I bought the Adobe Design Premium Creative Suite. DW was included in both the Design Premium and the Web Premium Creative Suites (which were combined in CS6).

The point is, as of DW CS3, I had already adopted EW, and had I not gotten DW as part of the suite, would not have purchased it otherwise. I was buying the suite to get Photoshop Extended, Illustrator, InDesign, Fireworks, Acrobat Pro, and Flash Pro. Here's the thing—for those on the Adobe upgrade path, the entire suite on upgrade costs less than the price of Dreamweaver at retail. So, a lot of those copies of DW, I suspect, may not necessarily be being used; they were simply acquired as part of the suite, and are, figuratively speaking, gathering dust on the shelf.

Microsoft, I suspect, recognized this phenomenon, and decided to try to build something like it—hence, the Expression Studio. Unfortunately, their offering is decidedly weaker and less compelling than the competing creative suites, even if they were not fighting the inertia of going up against industry standards like Photoshop and Illustrator with the anemic Expression Design.

Still, in EW they've got a winner. I hope it doesn't go down the drain with the studio wash water. Even if they have to decouple it from the studio and release it on its own cycle, I hope that they will see its value and continue to develop it, something that I will admit to being less and less confident of the longer we go with no indication of further development, and especially since the somewhat ominous disappearance of the UserVoice announcement from the forum's header. That either says "We've got all the suggestion we can possibly work on for the next version," or "Why solicit suggestions for a future version that is not to be?"

I don't need an announcement of when. I'd be quite satisfied to hear a simple announcement that "There will be an EW5, now shut the hell up and let us work on it already." Would it change my workflow? Nah, I'd still use the eminently productive EW4 SP2 for the majority of my Web development. But, it would ease my mind that my tool of choice hadn't reached its zenith, and allow me to anticipate what kinds of goodies we might get in the next version. And, not least, it would put quits to the idle, and, in the end, useless speculation here, and elsewhere, over whether EW is dead or not. ;-)

cheers,
scott

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Answer 41

Several months ago I read MS had laid off development staff and now we read of massive layoffs in marketing at MS. I addition there have been statements regarding re-structuring of sales and marketing. All this at a time when a new OS rollout is comming?

It indeed does make one wonder about the fate of EW.

I wonder if MS will conceed the market to DW. It was just a year or two ago when rumors were circulating that MS might buy Adobe- how fast times change.

Answer 42

FWIW, I know of no layoffs in the EW team. There have been some changes on the team over the last couple of years but that's normal. Some folks left MS and others were hired or moved from one position to another.

As far as I'm concerned Microsoft marketing has long needed an overhaul. There are many things MS has done in the last few years I personally consider foolhardy and if there really is such a restructuring going on hopefully it will be a step in the right direction.

(I haven't been following that closely since I personally don't care for Win 8 and yes, I've used it and even have the RC on a machine sitting not 6" from my keyboard.)

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Free Expression Web Tutorials
For an Expression Web forum with without the posting issues try expressionwebforum.com

Answer 43

FWIW, I know of no layoffs in the EW team. There have been some changes on the team over the last couple of years but that's normal. Some folks left MS and others were hired or moved from one position to another.

As far as I'm concerned Microsoft marketing has long needed an overhaul. There are many things MS has done in the last few years I personally consider foolhardy and if there really is such a restructuring going on hopefully it will be a step in the right direction.

(I haven't been following that closely since I personally don't care for Win 8 and yes, I've used it and even have the RC on a machine sitting not 6" from my keyboard.)

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Recent articles are beginning to intimate that the (Win8) transition isn't going to be as drastic, or as forced, as some previous MS actions may have led us to believe. In an Infoworld "First Look" review of Office 2013, this was stated:

In the run-up to Office 2013's preview release, speculation flew fast and far about how much the new Office would be beholden to Windows 8. Most widely argued was whether or not the suite would be Metro-centric, or at least have certain elements deployed on top of Metro.

Microsoft decided not to go that route, and the reasons seem twofold. One, all signs hint that Windows 8 is not going to displace the existing market for Windows 7; instead, the two OSes will sell side by side (shades of Windows XP and Windows Vista). This means making any significant amount of Office functionality Metro-only would be a mistake. [emphasis added]

Note that bit about both Win7 and Win8 being sold side by side. Puts an interesting light on MS's decision to sell the Pro version of Win8 for only $39. Talk about incentivizing! Seems they learned a lesson with the XP/Vista debacle, and they're giving us a reason to make the transition on our own.

I, for one, am very likely to buy the Pro version before the cutoff date of Jan.31, 2013. Maybe even multiple licenses, at that price, considering the number of machine I have. From what I've read to date, it isn't that hard to basically use Win8 (on a desktop/laptop) as if it were Win7. It may not be the best tablet OS to come down the pike (sorry, Cheryl ;-), but it seems to offer a lot to those on keyboard-based machines, as well.

cheers,
scott

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Please remember to "Mark as Answer" the responses that resolved your issue. It is common courtesy to recognize those who have helped you, and it also makes it easier for visitors to find the resolution later.

Answer 44

FWIW, I am more productice in Win 8 using a keyboard where it is more or less functional. Something I can't say about the metro interface.

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Free Expression Web Tutorials
For an Expression Web forum with without the posting issues try expressionwebforum.com

Answer 45

A google search result has nothing to do with the thread's age.  Look at the dates before you reply, read the entire thread, and don't reply to old threads, especially those that have been marked answered.

Indeed, Kathy, and definitely 'coming of age'. Scott and others cut a tone here that will keep this topic burning even after Microsoft announces Studio 5. I hope 5 follows the usual beta policy, though we are all aware that screenign public input has associated costs (in a slow market). I mean to say ... just look at all the baggage in this forum one could attribute to my go-where's. Lol, we all do our best. There's a lot of best's out there for 5, we can be sure. Boxed style switchers for instance - my html5 sub site dance or the snappy new j-query Switcher 2.0 - scripting seems far more popular, yes? We have yet to see script shipped. Will you be screening beta 5?

Answer 46

The Front Page program was supported long after MS stopped publishing new versions, and FrontPage websites are still littering every corner of the Web. Even FrontPage websites that rely on FrontPage Server Extensions (the end of which was announced in 2006) are still working (on fewer and fewer servers).

Your sites didn't magically vanish when MS failed to issue a new version of FP. Whine, whine, whine.

MS had to dump FrontPage. As everyone knows, FrontPage was a dead end in the evolving web. Its nonstandard, proprietary code, developed for a time when IE ruled the browser market had no chance in the real world. And that was a decade ago. Standards are even more important now, with so many platforms and browsers. Nobody is developing support for FPSEs and old proprietary FP code on Android and iOS devices.

Expression Studio is ancient? Ancient? That's just dumb. It's newer that Microsoft's latest Office suite! Do you not realize that? And Expression Web 4 has had two service packs. And Blend 5 has been released for preview.

What could someone who is still lamenting the death of FrontPage possibly need that isn't in Expression Web4?

Secrecy is maintained by every company. Secrecy keeps competitors from getting a jump on something new and--especially for hardware--it keeps sales of existing inventory from plummeting. You aren't seriously claiming that MS is different from any other company in that regard, are you?

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A call to action:
What do we want?!
Time travel!
When do we want it?!
That's irrelevant!

"literring" ? Sounds aweful cruel. FP is to IMAP as FTP is to FTP. I know 1,000,000 computers that go with FP in my state. Can't say the same for any FTP look-a-joke.Telling, that DW is sinking into DWT. Wait for Adobe's FP look-a-like. Anyway, this is supposed to be a Microsoft Forum. How is it, every time my wife reads your Microsoft Forum signature she gets lost in Facebook for six hours? Scripted blogoshere's turning into one-click buttons in Web 5?
You mods, you!

Answer 47

"I know 1,000,000 computers that go with FP in my state", really? Meaning 1M computers that have Front Page installed on them?

Answer 48

"Telling, that DW is sinking into DWT."

DW isn't "sinking into" DWT. DW invented DWTs!

DWT is the Dreamweaver Website Template.

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A call to action:
What do we want?!
Time travel!
When do we want it?!
That's irrelevant!

Answer 49

Dynamic Web Template. See http://dwtig.com/.

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Will
Baltimore, MD USA - www.fastie.com

Answer 50

Dynamic Web Template is what DWT morphed into. Macromedia was calling its DWTs (with the .dwt extension) DreamWeaver Templates long before the term became generic-ized (and at least 5 years before the moribund DWTIG site's now grossly out of date copyright statement (2003)).

Likewise RAID was originally Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks, but was later morphed into Redundant Array of Indpendent Disks by manufacturers who wanted to tart it all up and charge more.

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A call to action:
What do we want?!
Time travel!
When do we want it?!
That's irrelevant!

Answer 51

And PHP started out as Personal Homepage Preprocessing but morphed into Pre Hypertext Processing. How's that for showing how long I've been doing this web thing.

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Free Expression Web Tutorials
For an Expression Web forum with without the posting issues try expressionwebforum.com

Answer 52

You and Charlotte started working on your webs about the same time?

I had no idea about the earlier PHP name.

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A call to action:
What do we want?!
Time travel!
When do we want it?!
That's irrelevant!

Answer 53

Most don't thought  it seems that I have it a little bit wrong. That was the second "name" the first was Persoal Home Page tools if Wikipedia is to be believed. As the capibilities of the language developed it outgrew the "personal" moniker.

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Free Expression Web Tutorials
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Answer 54

Thank you, Miss Manners, for your invaluable input.

And if this is the rudest forum you have ever come across, you must be new to the Web.

The fact is, that when people come in here and make unfounded, outlandish claims and idle speculation that is demonstrably wrong, that needs to be corrected--for the record. Look at the endless parade of people with 0 points behind their name who think they can tell Miscrsoft how to run their business.

Most of the people who clamor for a new version and read tea leaves to divine the future of EW and/or Microsoft have never contributed anything to the forum, yet, like you, think they can tell people (and Microsoft) how to behave.

You want Expression Web 5? Wait for it like the rest of us. Is there anything you can't do with EW4? Is there some compelling feature that's missing? If so, post it on MS Connect. And then, when MS has a chance to catch its breath after releasing the biggest OS change in its history, and everyone goes back to their old team assignments (from which they have been pulled to work on Win8), maybe they'll hop to it and get the new version done. Or they'll drop EW entirely and leave the entire market to Dreamweaver; we don't know, as we've said through this entire thread. (But that's hardly likely, given their increasing push to the Cloud and all things web-based and mobile.)

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Answer 55

You are lecturing me on manners??

"unfounded, outlandish claims" Don't be so dramatic and ridiculous. It was a simple, reasonable question. If you don't know just say so, you don't need to issue a fatwa.

"needs to be corrected" Seriously? Who do you think you are? You'd be better off not putting all your self-worth in a poorly attended forum. You don't own it, but maybe it makes you feel important. However, you are just a rude little man with no people skills. I don't care how many "points" you have.

As for Expression Web 5, you've gone from "Who knows the mysterious inner workings of Microsoft? They have a plan, and will let us know when they deign to throw us a crumb of information or encouragement"  to "Well, maybe they won't be another version, after all." Microsoft (supported by people like you) is doing a great job of killing itself.

Finally, yes, I am the customer, and I tell MS how to respond. Marketing 101.

Answer 56

" It was a simple, reasonable question. If you don't know just say so, you don't need to issue a fatwa."

Did you not read the thread? His simple, reasonable question that started the thread was answered properly, concisely, reasonably. It's only the off-the-wall questions and comments and innuendo came later that got people worked up.

Like: "Given the release of the SP's Does this mean there will be no EW 5 on the horizon?" I mean, seriously, has he never seen any SPs for any other software? SPs don't mean that there will be no EW5; they're just service packs.

Or: "Dumps me and my 5 small business web sites." What a silly thing to say. He's just being a drama queen.

And as for ""needs to be corrected" Seriously? Who do you think you are? "--I'm someone who takes this seriously, as all the regulars do. And if someone comes in here and makes false statements, they need to be corrected. Why? Because as of today, nearly 13,000 people have read this thread, and if we let false statements stand uncorrected, many of those people will take them as fact, as the poster did who read unsubstantiated opinions elsewhere on the web as fact that showed that Silverlight was dead. That's why.

And when people threaten to buy another product, as someone did, we tell them that we don't care. Because we don't. At least 4 people in this thread use Dreamweaver along with EW.

It's the brain-dead questions and comments that, legitimately, get called out. And this thread was full of them, including people who dug it up after it had been dead, didn't read it, and then asked the question again. You'd think they'd never been in a forum before.

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Answer 57

I am bored with this. The reason people come to this forum is because they are typically EW 4 users, and they want more info about the product they are using. They want to know if the product that they have invested time and money in will be supported and has a future.  Clearly Microsoft is not providing this service (fiddling while Rome burns), so it's left to this run down forum (and I use the word forum loosely) to provide baseless conjecture or tell people that they stupid for even asking. There seems to be a tone from some of you elder statesmen which says "I have been here longer than you, so I can treat you disrespectfully."

It's not your job to "correct" people, and you certainly aren't following forum etiquette in the way that you gang up to badger people. The vibe in this place stinks.

As for your claim that the thread got out of hand after it had been been dealt with in a professional manner, it is completely bogus.

"I think MS has done a pretty profitable job of running their business without our input into their marketing plans. After all, the only reason to want to know is just for curiosity's sake." This retarded statement speaks volumes.

Answer 58

" The reason people come to this forum is because they are typically EW 4 users, and they want more info about the product they are using. They want to know if the product that they have invested time and money in will be supported and has a future."

If they do, that are misinformed.  They should be coming to get help using it.  Read, since it appears you haven't, what you should have read prior to posting:  the "Forum FAQ - Start Here" post at the top of the posts.  That clearly explains what this forum is for, what it is not for, and who participates:  Not Microsoft, other users.

The very first reply to the original question *was* the correct answer - the one marked as such.  The second post was an elaboration on that answer.  Both were correct and polite.

Re-read your first post in this thread, which was months after it had run its (overlong) course.  (Was there a purpose to dredging it up?)  You mis-characterized the thread (it was not the original question that got nasty answers), and apparently thought you were addressing MS or MS employees.  And the tone of it was as nasty as any that you are complaining about.

Answer 59

"They should be coming to get help using it." Yes, that includes what's is happening with the product. YOU do not decide what people want to talk about.  This is an MS sponsored website and one of very few channels where there is discussion about EW. If not here, where?  Seems that a small group of you has decided how it should work for everyone and tries to control the discussion through bully tactics (see responses to KevinClarke).

As for me thinking that I was talking to MS personnel, don't be absurd. I know that MS support is monumentally bad, but even they would not hire you to represent the product. If you don't like the way I am addressing you, you are getting a taste of your own medicine. Perhaps you have been on this forum too long and have an inflated sense of your worth. The only thing you are good at is being apologists for MS.

Seems that you are all content to say MS tells us nothing, so will we just sit here and wait like bumps on a log. Well, I have news for you. This is a live issue and one that won't go away. I suggest you find a better way to respond to it that is not rude or patronizing.

Answer 60

Thanks. I'm pretty polite as a rule, but I can't abide forum brown-shirts. The EW 5 issue, in my opinion, should be addressed as a community because that's where the power is.

Answer 61

"Yes, that includes what's is happening with the product. "

Not unless it's been publicly announced, which we've explained repeatedly, and politely told people.  You keep missing that point.

WE HAVE NO INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THE PRODUCT UNTIL IT IS PUBLIC.

We are NOT Microsoft.  Seriously, have you read what I've repleatedly told you you should have read before posting?

Answer 62

Dear All,

I was trying to keep out of commenting, but given my name was just mentioned  as one of the forum who experienced some harsh words or bullying as was suggested. I guess at the time I did feel a little hurt, by the responses, but I was also embarrassed and annoyed with myself, because I should have read the thread before mentioning it. I did apologise for wasting everyones time and this still stands.

In some way I feel resonsible for all this bad feeling and unessessary continuation of discussions over the future of EW.

So if I did sort of start this then I would like to propose we all stop now commenting on this issue because we are not gaining anything from it except a lot of bad feeling and harsh words amongst forum members.

Hey after all it is nearly the season of good will so PLEASE lets all quit on this one.

Kind regards to all
KevinClarke

Answer 63

"They should be coming to get help using it." Yes, that includes what's is happening with the product. YOU do not decide what people want to talk about.  This is an MS sponsored website and one of very few channels where there is discussion about EW. If not here, where?  Seems that a small group of you has decided how it should work for everyone and tries to control the discussion through bully tactics (see responses to KevinClarke).

As for me thinking that I was talking to MS personnel, don't be absurd. I know that MS support is monumentally bad, but even they would not hire you to represent the product. If you don't like the way I am addressing you, you are getting a taste of your own medicine. Perhaps you have been on this forum too long and have an inflated sense of your worth. The only thing you are good at is being apologists for MS.

Seems that you are all content to say MS tells us nothing, so will we just sit here and wait like bumps on a log. Well, I have news for you. This is a live issue and one that won't go away. I suggest you find a better way to respond to it that is not rude or patronizing.

Then I suggest that you go someplace where MS monitors feedback. They do not do so here. There used to be a link at the top of this forum to a uservoice place for the team to receive feedback. That disappeared a few months ago. In the last 2 years about the only time we've heard anything from MS is when Jim Cheshire has come in to answer specific questions. So complaining here and demanding answers will not be productive. MS does not monitor this forum with the rare exceptions of reviewing reports of abusive posts. You want to get feedback to MS use one of the methods on this page http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/execmail/feedback.mspx frankly, you are better off asking your questions on twitter (has tag #msexpressionweb) or facebook  since MS pays more attention to those channels than this forum. It has been clearly demonstrated that this community has very little "power" with Microsoft.

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For an Expression Web forum with without the posting issues try expressionwebforum.com

Answer 64

"Hey after all it is nearly the season of good will so PLEASE lets all quit on this one."

Already?!?! God, every year it gets earlier and earlier, doesn't it? Halloween's barely over and the shelves are already stuffed with glad tidings and Ho-Ho-Hos those insufferable joys-to-the-world. We have 2 months of that to contend with. And do not get me started on the candy canes and snowmen and the fact that it's dark every day when I leave work. It's more than one can bear, don't you find?

If we're not careful, this season of good will is going to creep earlier and earlier. Pretty soon we'll have to be nice starting right after Labor Day, and I for one, just don't have it in me!

Really, no problem, Kevin.

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Answer 65

Kevin, you are not responsible for what others say (including the replies to your question which were slightly snippy and slightly more snippy :)  ).

Sadly, asking people to stop re-opening this thread will have no affect.  It never does.

Answer 66

I don't know what you've been experiencing, but I find all of the "pedantic" contributors to be helpful.  Don't confuse some of their frustrated responses on various questions for rudeness.  If you are that thin skinned, maybe you should just sit silently while the world passes you by.

Answer 67

  "Hey after all it is nearly the season of good will..."

Tell you what I'm glad of—that it's the end of the silly season, the 2012 election. As a resident of Cincinnati, Hamilton County, OH, you can not even imagine the floods of robocalls, large-format junk mail, and literally dozens of back-to-back-to-back political ads we have been subjected to at every commercial break.

I just now heard a CNN talking head literally say that if Hamilton County goes blue, so does Ohio, and in all likelihood, the national election. Jeez! No damned wonder we've been so relentlessly pounded!

cheers,
scott

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Answer 68

So what you are saying Scott is that all by yourself you decided the next president. Good on ya man!

Answer 69

Can't say that. But I can say that I did vote (absentee, early, since I'm wheelchair-bound ;-). So, depending upon who wins, and by how much... well, if it's only by one vote... IT WAS ME!

Heh, heh... ;-)

cheers,
scott

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Answer 70

Thank you, Scott. It's just before midnight here in the Pennsylvania and we just learned that you single-handedly saved Big Bird. For that alone, we thank you. Well done. And for saving the Supreme Court you get bonus points.

Spent the evening out with friends watching the election returns, and all the tension was for nought. We should have just trusted Nate Silver's methodology and gotten on with our lives.

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Answer 71

Seeing that SharePoint team just stated you can use your favorite web authoring tool like Dreamweaver for branding, no mention of Expression Web, I would think they are done with this product.

Answer 72

Possibly but then again I've had enough experience with Microsoft to know that communication between different divisions is really poor. Expression Web is in the Developer division while SharePoint is Office.

Expression Web was not a SharePoint editor at any point in time. MS actually has its own web program SharePoint Designer so I'm not even sure why Dreamweaver was mentioned. Got a link to this SharePoint team recommendation for Dreamweaver?

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Answer 73

Right, there are SharePoint Designer 2007, 2010, and now 2013 is available, so it would seem odd that the "SharePoint team" would recommend Dreamweaver instead. I, too, would like to see a link to this recommendation...

cheers,
scott

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Answer 74

Search and find an article from a NON-MS person, outsourced developer for some SharePoint stuff.  Dreamweaver was mentioned as an *example* of using another web development tool for SharePoint.

http://ezinearticles.com/?SharePoint-2013-Features&id=7279269  "like Adobe Dreamweaver etc."  where EW is obviously one of the "etc".

When it's a Microsoft source, EW is explicitly mentioned:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/jj219688.aspx (scroll down to "Branding")

What a silly basis for assuming MS dropped EW.

Answer 75

They are taking the WYSIWYG editor capablitity out of SPD 2013, so that will make it harder to do front end development.  With 2013, In  you can create html files and upload them to SharePoint and it will convert them into masterpages templates, so you should be able to use any web design tools.

Answer 76

The article you mention are several months old.  The SharePoint conference where I stated they didn't mention Expression Web was 2 weeks ago.  I was also assuming that since there has been no mention or promotion of the product recently, no news of future releases, and that the product blogs haven't had posts to them in over a year that the product was dropped. 

I hope it isn't, I like the product but I haven't seen any signs from Microsoft recently that points to them continuing to develop it. 

 

Answer 77

It is in the middle of the keynote speech for their SharePoint Conference held 2 weeks ago.  http://www.mssharepointconference.com/Pages/default.aspx 

Answer 78

Drawing inferences from the tea leaves? Perhaps Microsoft believes their EW customers do best when treated like mushrooms?

Answer 79

 This isn't a sharepoint developer forum, SPD isn't the EW team, SharePoint is not targeted to the same audience as EW, other companies working on SharePoint would hardly be thinking about EW.

There is nothing anyone here can tell you about MS's EW plans, or not, as has been repeatedly stated.

Answer 80

I do branding for SharePoint.  I know a lot of other people who do branding for SharePoint.  We are thinking about it.  I would prefer to be able to do it with a MS products as opposed to having to get Dreamweaver. 

If you are a EW person, you should consider learning SP Branding. There is a lot of money out there in SharePoint right now.

It seems to me like MS isn't putting the same emphasis in promoting this product as they have other products.   They just relaunched new versions of almost all their other products.  It would be nice to know if anyone has heard if they will be building out the Expression product line further.  

I am just stating my observations to the original question "Just curious, is Expression Studio 5 currently under development? Any status on release date? ..features? etc?"  instead of saying , "MS doesn't tell us anything, we can't answer that"

Answer 81

"I would prefer to be able to do it with a MS products as opposed to having to get Dreamweaver.  "

Then do so.  Nothing prevents you from using EW4.

" It would be nice to know if anyone has heard if they will be building out the Expression product line further. "

Sigh.  It was answered.  And, yes, the answer IS: "MS doesn't tell us anything, we can't answer that"  MS annouces things when THEY decide to.  If anyone knew anything prior to that, they would be under a non-disclosure agreement.

There is no other way to keep answering that question.

Answer 82

I guess you never worked with any of Microsofts other products.  I get the non-disclosure agreement, but there was news of Windows 8 months before it was out.  Window8 phones were talked about almost form the time the Win7.5 phones were released. SharePoint 2013, Service Center 2012, Office 2012, SQL 2012, all had some news about what might be in them long before they were ever released.   At very least there was news that they were works in progress.

The entire Expression suite, except some news on upgrades to Blend, seems to be a black hole.  It is just natural that people are curious about its future.

At anyrate, if you don't feel you can or have anything to contribute more than what you have already said, please don't feel that you have to respond.

Answer 83

"I guess you never worked with any of Microsofts other products. "

Your guess is wrong.

When MS makes official announcments is up to them, and the same is true for each product. 

Answer 84

I guess you never worked with any of Microsofts other products.  I get the non-disclosure agreement, but there was news of Windows 8 months before it was out.  Window8 phones were talked about almost form the time the Win7.5 phones were released. SharePoint 2013, Service Center 2012, Office 2012, SQL 2012, all had some news about what might be in them long before they were ever released.   At very least there was news that they were works in progress.

Which is entirely, completely, 100% beside the bloody point. There "... was news that they were works in progress" because Microsoft put the news out, either through its staff bloggers, press releases, marketing mechanisms, development teams, whatever. They, Microsoft, can do that, because they have both the knowledge of and the control over what is coming down the pike.

But, as we have said here repeatedly, only to be ignored... We are NOTMicrosoft! Capisc'? This forum is populated by USERS of Expression Web, NOT Microsoft employees. You would be extremely hard pressed to even find a post by a moderator here, especially in the last year and a half, since Paul left, and if you did go back, you would find several posts where moderators have clearly stated that Microsoft does not comment on product plans prior to release. That is the only official Microsoft statement on the matter ever posted here. Got it?

That is the situation. This is not an official house organ of Microsoft. MS provides little more than server space and a barely functional forum application, and WE are not privy to Microsoft's plans, and no matter how many times people flit in here thinking otherwise, all we can tell them is that we are not Microsoft and we don't know any more than they do about Microsoft's plans. That is the bloody truth, and no amount of insisting otherwise will change that. Believe it; internalize it!

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Answer 85

"I would prefer to be able to do it with a MS products as opposed to having to get Dreamweaver.  "

Fine, go right ahead. I have Dreamweaver from as far back as MX, and from CS3 to CS6 (because they came with the Design Premium suites). I still use EW for 80+% of my development work, because it is a superior product with greater productivity, so feel free to continue to work with the MS products. No need to move to DW just because they've released a version and a half since EW4. Newer is not necessarily better...

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Answer 86

"I guess you never worked with any of Microsofts other products. "

Your guess is wrong.

When MS makes official announcments is up to them, and the same is true for each product. 

I've worked with many MS products and been on betas both public and private (and no I still cannot disclose what private betas I have been involved with due to the NDAs I signed as part of those betas. I can talk about products after MS has released then but cannot talk about the beta versions or even that I was or was not a beta tester.)

Different products and different product teams operate under rules for their product/division. Look back to before there was release version of any of the Expression products. The first to have a public beta was Expression Design  and MS was basically giving away free licenses to the last release version with stable development of the next version of the product when Microsoft bought it. The first MS beta came out not long after. Express Blend became the next product with a public beta that went on for multiple versions and if I recall correctly at least 6-9 months before release. Expression Web was supposed to have a public CTP released at MIX but MS didn't release it then.  To the best of my recollection there was 1 public beta out of all 4 of the Expression Web releases with no public service pack betas. Whether there were private betas I can't say.

Heck, I've been involved in betas for products that were never released and nobody without an NDA has ever heard of (no, can't talk about those either and not just from Microsoft.) Point is that it is up to Microsoft to say whether there will or will not be another version of EW or any release time table. With regards to Expression Web MS has never provided that information for 3 of its 4 released versions. I have my thoughts on the topic but since I still have NDAs with MS I can't even say what those thoughts are because some of the information that I have used to form those thoughts/opinions are based on information I can't share (pesky NDAs). So from my own experience I know it is useless to ask on a public forum what MS is planning on doing. I can tell you that Steve Ballmer does read his email (or at least someone in his office will read it) so perhaps you should send an email to Steve and post back his response, should he give one. I would love to know what he has to say. Who knows, if enough people asked perhaps it might not only get information out in public but speed up whatever development is going on with Expression Web at Microsoft.

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Answer 87

At anyrate, if you don't feel you can or have anything to contribute more than what you have already said, please don't feel that you have to respond.

I won't if you won't.

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Answer 88

I get that you don't know anything that Microsoft didn't specifically tell you and this is a forum of users not Microsoft employees, but since it is hosted on Microsoft's site and it does pertain to Expression Web, I understand why someone would ask the question.  Your answer is correct for you, you don't know anything that Microsoft hasn't told you, but that doesn't preclude other from knowing things that you don't or making their own observations

I would assume, maybe wrongly, that this forum isn't the only place for information on EW and that some of the users here may have read things in other forums, blogs, or articles, that aren't covered by non-disclosure agreements that they could point out.

I know I can use a bunch of different tools to do the same thing.   I could actually use Notepad to build a website if I had to.  While I don't have to run out to get the newest version of Dreamweaver or EW, newer versions tend to have options and features that make the users life easier.  That is what excites users and why people buy them.  How many people went out and got iPhone 4 and 5 when the iPhone 3 would do 95% of the same things?

If you search for information on EW5, this page is the 1st thing that comes up.  That is why this forum posting still draws interest. 

Answer 89

and Cheryl thank you for the detailed answer and your experience working with MS products.

Paladyn, part of the reason people ask question in forms isn't necessarily to get a yes\no right\wrong answer.   It is clear that no one here is a MS employee.  Sometimes people ask or answer question to help to foster a discussion to see if others have heard things they might have missed and the learn things in the course of the discussion.  

Answer 90

The problem is, Craig, that this isn't a forum where discussions happen. If you look around and hang around or do a search, you will see that 10 or 12 people do 90% of the heavy lifting. People come in with a question about EW or a problem with their site, get their question answered, usually by a core person, and leave. And they don't, generally, come back until they need help again.

Discussions are very rare, because none of the core people has the time to waste and there isn't a critical mass of people to contribute to them. So while your assessment of why people ask questions may be valid in some forums, it is definitely not the case in this one. The core group spends their time solving problems, not gassing off about what may or may not be happening in the future.

Look in the left column; page after page you see nothing but question marks and check marks; no discussions. And, frankly, the great majority of the forum visitors are web novices with no experience who bought EW either because it's much cheaper than Dreamweaver or because they thought it was the new FrontPage and they could drag-and-drop their way to a full blown website. They have no technical background that would lead them to be connected to the right sources for an inside scoop. No offense to the noobs, but that's just the case in this forum.

And as an aside, I learned HTML and web design using Notepad in my first class. I'm just glad I don't have to do it that way any more. ;-)

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Answer 91

Craig, I do understand that. However, I also understand that if someone actually reads this thread to see if, as they expected when they came here, any news on another version of EW were actually available, by the time they finished reading the thread they would have been disabused of that notion.

They should also, by that point, realize that no one here knows any more than they do, or that if they do know, they are under civil and moral, and possibly legal, constraints not to divulge the information. Just sayin'...  :-)

cheers,
scott

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Answer 92

Discussions are very rare, because none of the core people has the time to waste and there isn't a critical mass of people to contribute to them.

I've been under impression that the core people here have too much time to waste. Either that or they have too little self-control.

Answer 93

Looks like it is being rolled into Visual Studio...

http://expression.microsoft.com/en-us/cc136510.aspx

Expression Web

The web is now about applications as well as traditional web sites, and this requires a new set of tools. Microsoft is committed to offering a unified approach to focus on web design and development features in Microsoft Visual Studio 2012.

As part of this consolidation, Microsoft Visual Studio 2012 provides the leading web development tool, which enables you to design, develop, and maintain websites and web applications. Visual Studio 2012 makes it easy to build CSS-based websites from the ground up with new CSS layouts, HTML5 support and full featured capabilities for working with and debugging JavaScript. Learn more about Visual Studio Express 2012 for Web.

Answer 94

Looks like it is being rolled into Visual Studio...

Right. The notice has been posted as an "Announcement" at the top of this forum all day. You're a little late. And, as we have said all along, the first word came not in this forum, but in an official Microsoft announcement. We found out when everyone else in the world did.  ;-)

As I have said before, I will probably continue to use EW4 until it no longer serves the purpose, or until Dreamweaver eclipses its productivity, which it has not done at this point (DW CS6).

cheers,
scott

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Answer 95

Looks like it is being rolled into Visual Studio...

That's surely what Microsoft would like everyone to think, but I see absolutely no sign that it's true. For example, no Visual Studio product supports PHP.

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Will
Baltimore, MD USA - www.fastie.com

Answer 96

"no Visual Studio product supports PHP."

There are add-ins for PHP.

http://visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/6eb51f05-ef01-4513-ac83-4c5f50c95fb5  for VS 2012 (full).  Read the Q&A for the hoops to jump through to work with it if you have VS 2012 Express (the free version), which does not accept add-ins directly.

Certainly the main focus is asp.net, but VS does support PHP.  (I can't say how well, since I haven't tried the PHP add-on.)

Answer 97

Craig,

The features of Expression Web are not in Visual Studio 2012 though Blend has been rolled into Visual Studio 2012. There is no information from Microsoft about what will be incorporated into Visual Studio from Expression Web nor is there a timeline on when any such integration will occur. I suggest you try out Visual Studio 2012 for yourself and see how easy it is to maintain a php based website or a static website. Try out its CSS tools and see what you think for yourself. You will find out why people have been coming here and asking about getting the EW design surface in Visual Studio.

If that ever happens it will be years from now. Frankly, I'm pretty skeptical about it myself based on experiences at conferences and events with developers who use (and love) Visual Studio that there will ever be a place in that application for designers. Color me bitter so take my predictions with a grain of salt. I'd like to hope I was wrong but I've been hoping I was wrong on my gut feeling that Microsoft was dropping EW for well over a year. That feeling wasn't the result of any NDA or inside information but from observation of the changes going on at Microsoft. Ones I have not felt inspired confidence in the company or its future but that's a topic for a different venue.

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Free Expression Web Tutorials
For an Expression Web forum with without the posting issues try expressionwebforum.com

Answer 98

Another solution for PHP in VS is VS.Php.

Answer 99

I agree I don't think they will roll it in completely...

Here is Morten Rand-Hendriksen's take on it (Expression Web MVP), if you haven't seen it.  I think he feels similar to you and many of us.

http://designisphilosophy.com/microsoft-expression-web/microsoft-abandons-expression-web-and-front-end-web-development/#.UNPahgZXLb0.twitter

Answer 100

Morton's post and mine on the topic are both linked in the "News from Microsoft" thread. I expect others including current (like Morton) and former MVPs (like me) will post what they have to say as they absorb what Microsoft has chose. to do.

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Free Expression Web Tutorials
For an Expression Web forum with without the posting issues try expressionwebforum.com