A little more on EW v3

Question

Somasegar posted on his blog today some of the new things in EW v3. He's got
more on the version of SuperPreview that will be in EW v3, sftp/ftps,
something called "snapshot preview", Silverlight video and Photoshop
integration see:
http://blogs.msdn.com/somasegar/archive/2009/06/05/expression-web-3.aspx

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Answer 1

Thanks for the link Cheryl. I think the SuperPreview feature is enough all by itself to get me to upgrade (from Version 1 -- I skipped Version 2)

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ClarkNK, QVP
HomePage Doctor CHO
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Answer 2

I like that MS is going to include secure FTP. SuperPreview looks nice, and I hope they worked out the reported bugs in it. The PhotoShop integration is not interesting to me, since I do all my image conversions to jpeg, gif, or png before I import images into EW.

I hope that MS has fixed the slow FTP. the 'Selecting Text ____' bug, and other more minor annoyances. New features are great, but bug fixes are more important, in my opinion.

<Minor Rant>I am also interested in how upgrades will be handled. I puchased EW 2 less than a year ago; to have to spend even more money at this juncture doesn't sit too well.</Minor Rant> :-)

I am looking forward to seeing the new version. If it allows me to be more productive, I'm good to go with it.

-Preston

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Columbia, CA. USA http://www.gildedmoon.com

Answer 3

I've put a few more links to v3 info over on my blog at http://by-expression.com/blogs/by-expression/archive/2009/06/07/more-on-expression-web-v3.aspx I suggest reading the quotes and following the links.

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MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com and online instructor led Expression Classes

Answer 4

Ha! I just read the first comment.  ...Wonder when Scott will tell us how he really feels.  :)

I do wonder when we'll hear what *all* the changes/fixes are.  "Is it worth an upgrade cost" is still a wide open question.

Answer 5

Preston, the team has invested a lot in improving the publishing features and FTP speed for v3. The text selection bug has been fixed but won't be available in time for v3. But it will be provided as a free service pack for v3 which is currently scheduled for later this year after v3 has released. The schedule could slip but that's the current plan.

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http://blogs.msdn.com/anna

Answer 6

Anna,

Thanks for your reply! That's certainly good news about the bug fixes. I appreciate the efforts of the team.

Will a release candidate for EW 3 be made available? I'm fairly certain the regulars here would be interested in putting a RC through it's paces.

I do lke the 'snapshot preview'. That, in itself, will be a nice productivity booster. Also, I can see how the ability to work with layers in Photo Shop PSD files would be handy.

Like many others here, I'd like to know about expected release dates for an RC (if there is one) and RTM, and upgrade and pricing policies.

Thanks for your help, Anna,

-Preston

 

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Columbia, CA. USA http://www.gildedmoon.com

Answer 7

Preston,

Launch - usually the same as release is July 10, 2009. As for an RC, CTP, public beta, given how close the release date is (a month away) I doubt there will be one.

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MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com and online instructor led Expression Classes

Answer 8

Anna,

Thanks for providing more info on what v3 will have. Assuming the FTP situation is as improved as you state that will be good news.

I know many people are anxiously waiting for an update to fix the text select bug. - Do you know if the update will fix the text select bug in v1 & v2 as well?

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MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com and online instructor led Expression Classes

Answer 9

Cheryl,

My bad. I must've miised that release date in my reading.

Thanks for the heads up.

-Preston

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Columbia, CA. USA http://www.gildedmoon.com

Answer 10

Preston, no big deal other than my feeling that v3 is being rushed. I sure wish there was a CTP/Beta or something prior to release but then I'm not in charge. <g>

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MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com and online instructor led Expression Classes

Answer 11

Ahh yes, I too remember working for a big company.

Only in a big company would it be possible for a bug fix (text selection) that has been frothed about since day 1 "not be available in time for V3".

Now -- this isnt a rant!  Just an observation.  Overall I am very happy with MS for all the asp.net development tools and *especially* the ABSOLUTELY FREE  VWD and SQL Express versions. In fact I still lie awake at night wondering how such a gift came to be ---

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ClarkNK, QVP
HomePage Doctor CHO
HomePageDoctor.com -- Expression Web database tutorials
Ownertrades.com -- Created with FP, Access, Bots and Wizards
MyNumbersTracker.com -- Created with Expression, VWDExress, SQL Express, and ASP.NET.

Answer 12

Preston, no big deal other than my feeling that v3 is being rushed. I sure wish there was a CTP/Beta or something prior to release but then I'm not in charge. <g>

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MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com and online instructor led Expression Classes

At least give more time to work on basic UI things that may alienate some users.

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Answer 13

Maybe when Scott reads the updates I posted yesterday that quote Steve Guttman from the xteam blog and has links to some other MS info (like how to get TFS to work with Expression Studio v3 for those who have been asking about source control.)

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MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com and online instructor led Expression Classes

Answer 14

Preston,

Apparently a public beta won't be released. It really kills us to not release a public beta - user feedback is absolutely vital to us and the program's development - but we simply don't have the time this round. We had planned to have one but weren't able to meet the necessary deadlines without affecting too many other things.

Upgrade policies et al aren't publically available but I was told by someone on the marketing and business side to recommend to folks who have not yet bought version 2 to WAIT for version 3 at this point.

Anna

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http://blogs.msdn.com/anna

Answer 15

Cheryl,

I strongly doubt the update will work for v1 or v2 users, but rather than assume this, I'll ask around and reply again.

fingers crossed...

Anna

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http://blogs.msdn.com/anna

Answer 16

Anna,

Marketing folks may say to wait but that isn't what Steve Guttman is quoted as saying:

Steve Guttman replies (Steve manages the Expression Web product team)

“With respect to the interface of Expression Web and the Expression products–our objective is to unify the Expression applications under a single UI framework. As you can imagine, with a program having a lot of native, Win32 code, it’s a challenge to port that code base to a new UI paragidm. Expression Web 3 is our first, significant step in that direction. As folks have noted, SuperPreview (as it was written from scratch), uses the Blend UI framework. The Expression Web 3 UI uses significant parts of this framework to achieve it’s look and feel. All the new features (Insert Silverlight, Silverlight Video, Deep Zoom) are built with the Blend framework (you can tell by the dialogs). However, there are still quite a few remaining Win32 dialogs. These will be ported in future versions of the application until Expression Web is fully integrated into the framework.”

This means that a lot of things that worked before won’t work under the new unified UI framework, this can affect quite a few things when the coding of the program itself has to be changed. As Steve states at the end of his comment not everything will be ported into Expression Web 3.0 for this version. It also certainly means that none of the current Expression Web addons will work in EW 3.0 either.

Sadly, since people haven't been able to see v3 and normally MS stops selling old versions when a new one is released it isn't possible for people to make an informed decision as to whether v2 or v3 will be the best version for them.

I thought Microsoft usually had a policy where if you bought a program within a certain time frame of a new version being released you got the new version free. Is tha an option for Expression Web users?

In other words, if someone bought v2 now would they get a free upgrade to v3? That's how people I know got Adobe CS 4 after buying CS 3 during the qualifying period. (I think Scott on this list said that's how he got his CS 4.)

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MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com and online instructor led Expression Classes

Answer 17

Anna,

I hope that it will be able to work since the text select and slow text typing bugs for years. It has been one of the more fustrating ones.

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MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com and online instructor led Expression Classes

Answer 18

Cheryl,

I just got the final word from Steve Guttman that a text selection fix for v1 and v2 will not be provided.

I don't understand your other post that begins "Marketing folks may say to wait but that isn't what Steve Guttman is quoted as saying" ... I don't see anything in what you are quoting from Steve that contradicts what marketing told me to recommend?

Anna

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http://blogs.msdn.com/anna

Answer 19

"As Steve states at the end of his comment not everything will be ported into Expression Web 3.0 for this version."

I think that could be misintepreted.  It's in reply to:

"...However, there are still quite a few remaining Win32 dialogs. These will be ported in future versions of the application until Expression Web is fully integrated into the framework.”

That's talking about porting the look and feel of the dialogs from old (Win32 look) to new (Blend look), not about porting EW2 features into EW3.

...Now, the impact of dialog structure changes to add-ons is not something I can comment on.

Answer 20

Anna,

You are right, I mixed up what Steve said with what immediately followed in the blog post at http://www.expression-web.net/expression-web-3-insights/ 

This means that a lot of things that worked before won’t work under the new unified UI framework, this can affect quite a few things when the coding of the program itself has to be changed. As Steve states at the end of his comment not everything will be ported into Expression Web 3.0 for this version. It also certainly means that none of the current Expression Web addons will work in EW 3.0 either.

So to my mind, if you like the CURRENT features of Expression Web 2.0 you should upgrade NOW. Since the SuperPreview will also be available as a standalone FREE version, you won’t be missing out on that particular new feature.

I mixed up the two posts. Personally, I'm going to reserve judgement until we see what impact the changes to the underlying UI framework mean. As you know I am not a fan of the black interface and have trouble using applications that have a black interface for any length of time so I would not be happy if the unified UI left me without an alternative. The comments on Soma's blog post indicate that I'm not the only one who has reservations about the UI.

As for marketing folks - any indication on what the upgrade policy will be? Especially for those who don't currently have v2 who might want to acquire it to hedge their bets on v3?

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MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com and online instructor led Expression Classes

Answer 21

Cheryl,

I don't know any of the details on the upgrade. Folks who are in the know aren't allowed to share this information with the public until the information is released publically.

Anna

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http://blogs.msdn.com/anna

Answer 22

Understood about the inability to post upgrade info without clearance. I'm just suggesting that they may want to make that info available sooner rather than later given the competitive nature of things.

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MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com and online instructor led Expression Classes

Answer 23

Maybe when Scott reads the updates I posted yesterday that quote Steve Guttman from the xteam blog and has links to some other MS info (like how to get TFS to work with Expression Studio v3 for those who have been asking about source control.)

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MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com and online instructor led Expression Classes

I didn't see anything that changed my mind since my last (first) comment on your blog about the upgrade. As a matter of fact, the more I hear, the less attractive the upgrade appears to me. TFS support is a null to me; I couldn't care less, although some who have posted here will be happy to see it. Silverlight tools and debugging? What, pray tell, do I do with those? I have Blend, and VS2008 Standard, and I don't use Silverlight anyway because of the difficulty I (and others) have experienced getting it work consistently in Firefox.

And, oh, yeah, we get the lovely Blend UI. Have you ever actually used it? I have. Do ya like things really, really dark? I hope so, because that's what you get. And, BTW, remember those add-ons you spent good money on, like CSS Sculptor and EW Extras? Yeah, those. Well, you can write 'em off when you upgrade (from http://www.expression-web.net/expression-web-3-insights/ — "It also certainly means that none of the current Expression Web addons will work in EW 3.0 either.").

And then there's this:

"“With respect to the interface of Expression Web and the Expression products–our objective is to unify the Expression applications under a single UI framework. As you can imagine, with a program having a lot of native, Win32 code, it’s a challenge to port that code base to a new UI paragidm. Expression Web 3 is our first, significant step in that direction."

Uh, oh. That scares the hel out of me. EW3 is the first app in the Studio family to undergo the conversion, and it's admittedly not complete. That's even more worrisome than the typical "version 1.0" issue, given the fragmentation implied. And, forgive me, but why? Why create a unified "UI paragidm" [sic] for applications which are so different in their requirements and objectives. "Well, sir, because we can." Oh, right. I forgot.

Are we having fun yet?

cheers,
scott

Answer 24

FWIW, there is no need to convert Blend since it was created with the UI that they are moving the other studio  programs into. I think Silverlight Encoder was also done in xaml originally so it doesn't need converting. I'm not sure about Design but that seems even more of a stepchild than Web. That leaves Web and Media as the two apps that were not part of the UI from the begining.  Each of them have quite different feature sets than Blend or Encoder with lots of pre-existing code.

FWIW, I agree that making every application have the same UI instead of specific to the needs of each app is not what I would choose.

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MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com and online instructor led Expression Classes

Answer 25

"And, BTW, remember those add-ons you spent good money on, like CSS Sculptor and EW Extras? Yeah, those. Well, you can write 'em off when you upgrade"

Well, you can create the layout in EW2, and use it in EW3.  (Yes, a bit annoying, but far from a write off. ;)  )

Answer 26

Extensibility is planned to be included as part of the free service pack for v3 planned to be released later this year after the release of v3.

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http://blogs.msdn.com/anna

Answer 27

Really, really dark UI with no way to change the colors?! Anna, is that true?

I envision news headlines about web developers using EW 3 with dark UI going berserk and killing people [evil grin].

Answer 28

Wow- my boss just purchased 6 full copies of EW-2 for us and the others in the group. He wanted everyone involved to have a full copy since 6 people will be working site from 6 locations. We just got them from a distributor but they were not opened so we will return all of them. His brother is a top person at Corporate so he will let them know to put the breaks on getting any more EW-2 in stock and return the ones they have. 

Distributors really get an earfull from good customers who buy software and then find out is out of date by the time they install it. Microsoft should really do something for these customers who are loyal to MS. I realize that a line has to be drawn and if they did this with everything it would be a problem but just think we were almost out of the box with it and only about a month to EW-3 and our distributor ( very big MS disty) did not know or discount V-2.

Pesonally I have been loyal to MS with every version from FP-97 to EW-2 and have suffered a bit for that loyalty. I just got my personal upgade for 100 bucks and I feel like I just threw it out the window. I wonder if any further learning of EW-2 is a waste of time since we were not even planning new web sites until September.

Bummer.

Answer 29

Pesonally I have been loyal to MS with every version from FP-97 to EW-2 and have suffered a bit for that loyalty.

That's what happens when one ignores his own interests. Blind loyalty is valuing interests of others more than your own. Being flexible pays off.

Answer 30

Surferbob,

I'm not so sure I'd return those copies until you know what the upgrade policy will be. From the sound of it there are some serious differences between v3 and earlier versions. I find that I can't work very long on programs with a black UI so even though some of the features in v3 sound useful like the improved publishing, superpreview, possibly the snapshot feature and if you are working with Team Foundation Server the ability to use it with Expression Studio v3 (though whether or not all the studio programs will be able to use it is unclear form the KB article and it requires you to install an unsupported hotfix) whether your company would be better off using v2 or v3 isn't clear, at least to me.

I have a partner action pack for web pros and MSDN so I'll have both regardless. I really do wish MS would have provided a CTP/beta but that's the way it goes.

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MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com and online instructor led Expression Classes

Answer 31

Surferbob,

I'm with Cheryl on this one. Hold onto those copies for now, until we see whaz up.

"I just got my personal upgade for 100 bucks and I feel like I just threw it out the window. I wonder if any further learning of EW-2 is a waste of time since we were not even planning new web sites until September."

Hold onto this too. You didn't throw your money away. Learning is never a waste of time. The more time you spend learning  html, CSS, Asp.Net, etc., regardless of what program you use, will be time well spent, down the road.

Cheryl wrote: "I really do wish MS would have provided a CTP/beta but that's the way it goes."

I couldn't agree more. I'd even settle for a release candidate, at this point. but, like you say; "That's the way it goes".

-Preston

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Columbia, CA. USA http://www.gildedmoon.com

Answer 32

Surferbob,
"I just got my personal upgade for 100 bucks and I feel like I just threw it out the window. I wonder if any further learning of EW-2 is a waste of time since we were not even planning new web sites until September."

Hold onto this too. You didn't throw your money away. Learning is never a waste of time. The more time you spend learning  html, CSS, Asp.Net, etc., regardless of what program you use, will be time well spent, down the road.
-Preston

What Preston said. First of all, upgrades are evolutionary, not revolutionary. The EW2 skills you learn won't be lost in the new version, just added to. Secondly, and more importantly, 80–90% of using EW2 effectively (or Dreamweaver CS4, or any other Web development tool) is having a firm grasp and understanding of the principles of HTML and CSS.

Knowing the EW interface inside and out, and being clueless about the basic Web technologies, will have you googling the Web and visiting forums for help from now on. I use EW2, and Dreamweaver CS4, because it is convenient to do so, not because it is necessary.

Even though it is titularly a WYSIWYG program, I do zero work in the design pane and seldom if ever use the Manage or Apply CSS panes, preferring to hand-code both markup and CSS. In the time it takes to open the New Style wizard, check all the boxes and set all the values, designate the element, class or id to assign to, etc., I can write the bloody CSS and be done with it, and I get to choose the order and organization of the resulting CSS file. I do, however, avail myself of many of the other features available, and even hand-coding and styling is facilitated by the hinting (Intellisense) and completion features offered, so both programs contribute to my productivity, even if it wouldn't be said that either makes it possible.

The point is, learn as much as you can, first about HTML and CSS, and then about EW2. The knowledge will not go to waste, nor will your purchase of EW2.

cheers,
scott

Answer 33

One place where Scott & I differ is that I use the Apply/Manage styles task panes frequently. I use them as quick reminders of what styles are available. I tend to write my own CSS and modify using the CSS Properties Task Pane. Others use nothing but the dialog boxes launched when you use "create new style" from Appy/Manage/Format>New Style options.

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MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com and online instructor led Expression Classes

Answer 34

I also code by hand, but I do use the design pane -- to preview what I create and to find pieces of code I need to work on. If design view doesn't get used, then I believe other editors are better (because they also provide Intellisense and are free).

Answer 35

I also code by hand, but I do use the design pane -- to preview what I create and to find pieces of code I need to work on. If design view doesn't get used, then I believe other editors are better (because they also provide Intellisense and are free).

Whoa! I didn't say I didn't use the design view. I do. I work in split view, and as I've mentioned here repeatedly, I use the design view as a first-pass check, a very basic check, on my layout, while depending upon previews in several browsers for the straight skinny. And, as you say, I will use it as a navigation aid to get to points in my markup that I would otherwise have to scroll to and look for.

What I did say is that I don't work in design view. I don't create, size, or move elements around in design view. I do not treat it as a work surface where I draw out the elements of my design. That way lies problems, given the struggles the program has to go through to write markup and CSS consistent with the layout thus formed, and the inevitable absolute positioning and other ills which result.

I an thoroughly familiar with that form of design where it is appropriate. Part of my portfolio includes print design, and I use Adobe InDesign primarily for print and print-surrogate (e.g. PDF) design work. There, not using drag and drop creation, positioning, and resizing would be as foreign to me as using it is in a Web design program. Unless you are into actually learning Postscript, The Real Thing, there is no equivalent in the print world to the relationship of HTML and CSS on the Web. [EDIT: Figured I'd better add before someone called me on this that, yes, I am familiar with SGML, and with its role in the commercial printing industry. However, unlike HTML and CSS, SGML is not exposed at the DTP level in layout programs such as InDesign, etc., and AFAIK no one at design level ever actually works directly with it as we routinely do HTML and CSS.]

But, you see, The Web Is Not Print, and that style of working is, to me, inimical to the mutable nature of the milieu in which the design will be expressed. InDesign has something very cool used for layouts called SmartGuides. They work because you always know exactly where the page elements are with respect to the container, and because all positioning in page layout programs is basically absolute positioning, with elements happily overlaying one another if you tell them to. But SmartGuides as implemented in ID would never work in a Web design program. What are the cross-hair coordinates relative to? The current container? The parent container? Its parent? Its neighbor? The wrapper? The viewport?

At the current stage of software development, my personal opinion is that drag and drop WYSIWYG design is an as-yet-unfulfilled dream. That is, of course, only my opinion, but as long as I continue to hold it I will rely upon the certain knowledge that the HTML markup and CSS that I create by hand will work, and if I observe the necessary requirements, will be standards compliant, valid, accessible, and cross-browser compatible. I cannot count on the design view producing anything close to that.

As I said above, EW's tools definitely contribute to my productivity. It's just that design view is not one of the major contributors. There's a lot of other stuff in EW, however. ;-)

cheers,
scott

Answer 36

I also code by hand, but I do use the design pane -- to preview what I create and to find pieces of code I need to work on. If design view doesn't get used, then I believe other editors are better (because they also provide Intellisense and are free).

BTW, there appears to be no way to "unpropose as answer" in this forum. My elbow slipped as I was trying to click "Quote" and I hit "Propose As Answer" instead. If there's a moderator out and about, think you could remove this proposal for me? Thanks.

cheers,
scott

Answer 37

One place where Scott & I differ is that I use the Apply/Manage styles task panes frequently. I use them as quick reminders of what styles are available. I tend to write my own CSS and modify using the CSS Properties Task Pane. Others use nothing but the dialog boxes launched when you use "create new style" from Appy/Manage/Format>New Style options.

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MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com and online instructor led Expression Classes

Well, actually, I also occasionally use the dialog to remind me of which styles are available (although I'm just as likely to google). Even then, however, I seldom actually create the style there. I really do prefer a particular order and organization to my stylesheet, and I cannot rely upon EW hewing the line and placing any new style created in the position in the stylesheet relative to other related elements where I would put it if I wrote it myself.

Unlike the Apply and Manage panes, I should note, I do use the Tag and CSS Properties panes. Once a style is created, using the CSS Properites pane to modify or add to it does not change its position in the stylesheet, just the associated rules.

As designers and developers I would be quite startled to learn that we didn't all have our own favorite workflow and methods. With a few exceptions (e.g. the inadvisability of drag and drop design), none is inherently better or worse than the next, and all are just a matter of personal choice and work style... ;-)


cheers,
scott

Answer 38

When I said I use the Apply/Manage task panes to remind me what css classes I meant the ones that I created and are in my stylesheet. Google wouldn't help with that. <g>

I too like to organize my stylesheets in a certain order and I keep TopStyle on had for just that purpose. (For many, many years it was my default css editor in every program including FrontPage and Dreamweaver). I will also use the Manage Styles task pane to reorder styles in my external stylesheet as well as move styles from the head section of the page to the external stylesheet after I'm finished tweaking them.

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MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com and online instructor led Expression Classes

Answer 39

Holy ____ the sometimes very S-L-O-W typing problem freaks me out. I type a sentance and watch for 5 seconds as it tries to catch up. That and the impossible task of sececting text without using the shift+arrow keys...man that's also annoying and gives me wrist injuries. Also, frequent crashes, system slowness (sometimes) when Photoshop is open, when you reset panels it collapses your open site folders, slow FTP publishing, somtimes hides folders and you have to "refresh". Probably more bugs if I thought about it.

 I can't believe some of these fixes have to wait for a service pack though, doh!!

Answer 40

Wellll...

Don't forget, these aren't problems with EW (on its own); they don't happen to everyone, which means it's a problem of interoperability. I don't have any text selection problems, crashing, nor slow typing problems on my 5-year-old computer that I use every day. And the slow FTP isn't EW problem either, it's the Windows FTP client. MS has to track down and research all of the myriad possible combinations of hardware and software and OSes (and all of their modifications and driver versions and possible virus/trojan infections) in order to identify why one computer has the problem and most don't.

Those problems take time, and how much time isn't always up to them. What is under their control is the features (or lack thereof) that they choose to address (root-relative references, etc.). On those items, we have grounds to grouse.

Answer 41

Latest news on Expression Studio v3 is that it won't contain Expression Media http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/06/expression-media-ripped-out-of-microsoft-expression-studio.ars

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MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com and online instructor led Expression Classes

Answer 42

Aw, darn. Now, I'm really gonna miss that (not).  ;-)

OTOH, if I were Microsoft I don't know that I would be providing any more reasons not to upgrade than I had to, and although I don't need or use it, just from the misrouted/misunderstood questions we get here concerning Media, it seems that there are many Media users who will be less than pleased to see its absence from the new Studio.

Then again, maybe they did have to, since according to the article referenced the new version of Media won't be ready at the planned release date. Apparently, rather than push back the release, or offer Studio purchasers a free upgrade to Media 3 when it is ready, they just decided to yank it.

I wonder what impact this is going to have on the price of Studio. Might be a hard sell pushing a less complete/capable Studio package at the same price, especially to upgraders who are familiar with the (formerly) full package.

cheers,
scott

Answer 43

I do wish MS would publish pricing and what is or is not included in V3 as well as the upgrade prices & requirements. After all release is just three weeks away.

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MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com and online instructor led Expression Classes

Answer 44

I don't suppose there's any chance they will do a Mac version is there? It's sadly ironic that the only part of Studio that they ported to Mac (Media) is the one that virtually no Mac users need. My iLife apps can handle any of my media needs, came free with the OS, and are far more intuitive to use. However, iWeb is a waste of hard drive space, allowing creation of pretty, noncompliant and bloated pages. You think MS has the sense to exploit that by introducing a useful product (EW) to the Mac market? I won't hold my breath...

Jim

Answer 45

There are possibly two reason why Media is supported on Mac machines. The first is that MS bought iView and created Media from it. There were loads of iView users. The second is, most Expresion Media users are photographers, many of whom use Macs for processing image files with various versions of Photoshop. So, when MS obtained iView, Mac users were able to upgrade to Media. The Mac with PhotoShop is far, far better at working with images than a Windows box. If I could afford it, I'd get a Mac and do all my photography related work on it.

I agree, it would be nice if MS ported the other Expression Studio apps to the Mac. But, I won't hold my breath.

It's going to interesting to see how this shakes out in July with the release of Exp Studio 3.

-Preston

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Columbia, CA. USA http://www.gildedmoon.com

Answer 46

I wouldn't hold my breath on Mac versions of any of the other programs in Studio. After all Expression Design started life as plain old Creature House Expression and was dual platform. They dropped Mac support early on though they did make the Mac version a free download.

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MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com and online instructor led Expression Classes

Answer 47

"The Mac with PhotoShop is far, far better at working with images than a Windows box."

???
Really? Hmm... When I upgraded to Design Premium CS4 I decided to upgrade my PS skills from a few versions back. I have completed six full Lynda.com courses on PS, and with the exception of the different modifier keys (Ctrl vs Command, etc.) AFAICT, there's not a lick of difference in the platforms. And, although I eschewed it in the past, it seems that Adobe has finally gotten their act together with Bridge CS4. Toss in the great integraton among the various tools (Illustrator, Photoshop, InDesign, Fireworks, Dreamweaver, etc.) and it's a terrific platform for image manipulation and deployment. Frankly, I'm curious as to just what it is that a Mac user with equivalent training and experience can do with images that I can't.

cheers,
scott

Answer 48

I've got CS 4 on both my Mac and PC, the only difference relates to OS conventions for application interfaces. Personally I prefer the Windows verison.

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MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com and online instructor led Expression Classes

Answer 49

Scott, I wish I could fully qualify my comment through personal experience; I cannot. My statement is based upon the opinions of many photographers who use Macs and Photoshop for creating fine prints; especially very large prints. They indicate that PS, and plugins and profiles available for Mac architecture is more efficient. That said, I use PS-CS2 on my XP box, and aside from running up against the 32 bit XP imposed RAM limit, I have been very happy. Some of my image files are over a gigabyte in size. If I can realize better performance, I'm all for it!

I can't afford CS4. I wish I could. Adobe did some nice work on that version.

-Preston

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Columbia, CA. USA http://www.gildedmoon.com

Answer 50

Any word yet on price and upgrade policy?

Answer 51

That's unfortunate.  I was contemplating investing in Studio 3 even though I am unlikely to use all of the included apps but Media was one I would definitely have used.  Don't think I'll spend the money now.

Answer 52

I can't afford CS4. I wish I could. Adobe did some nice work on that version.

-Preston

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Columbia, CA. USA http://www.gildedmoon.com

You can get the entire Design Premium suite (upgrade from 1 or 2 at Amazon) for $595. As a professional photographer who maintains a business Web site, it's a business expense that comes right off of revenue, so your net cost is $595 minus your marginal tax rate + SE tax. SE tax is a set 15.3%, so guessing at a conservative 20% marginal rate that comes out at under400 bucks. Not bad when you think about it.  ;-)

cheers,
scott (who can also rationalize fudge brownies, double-malted milkshakes, and chocolate eclairs)

Answer 53

Preston.

A lot of people who started out on Macs back when they were *the* desktop publishing/image system have no clue how programs like PhotoShop perform on a Windows system. I have a friend who was always scornful of PC for that reason until she went freelance and discovered that few of her clients had Macs. So she got a Windows system because she was tired of dealing with file incompatabilities (we are talking late 90s here) and has never gone back to Macs since.  My husband was a died in the wool Mac guy until Win 98. I use both platforms and each can do what they do very well and the only real reason to choose one platform over the other is because you prefer the conventions of one OS over the other. Personally I prefer Windows over Macs but an iPod over a Zune.

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MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com and online instructor led Expression Classes

Answer 54

Some of my image files are over a gigabyte in size.

Wow! What could an image be of to be this large?

Answer 55

.tiff images can easily be that big.

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FrontPage MVP

Answer 56

Rom,

I am doing 1800 or 2400 ppi scans of 4x5 inch film. I then bring them into Photoshop for correction/adjustment. I use layer masks, sometimes as many as twenty on a single tiff image, so the individual file sizes become very large. These large images become my 'master image file' from which I create smaller flattened images in various sizes for printing, or for the web. As an aside, I don't sharpen the ' master image file': I only sharpen images derived from it. That way I don't run the risk of over-sharpened images, which can look pretty crummy.

-Preston

ps: Plesae take a peek at some of my work at http://www.gildedmoon.com. With one or two exceptions, all the images are from 4x5 film.

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Columbia, CA. USA http://www.gildedmoon.com

Answer 57

Thanks for the explanation, Preston. Good looking pictures!

Now on the topic of this thread: at the blog mentioned in the beginning of this thread, an EW team rep has clearly stated that UI colors would not be changeable. The rep also said they were very excited about this release, which doesn't seem congruent to me with the color choices they made -- choices that a depressed person would make.

Answer 58

Thanks for the compliment on my work!

I don't know if the new EW GUI will be a deal breaker for me. It would be nice if MS had different colored skins to choose from, but apparently that won't be the case. I'll just have to take it for test drive and see.

Cheers,

-Preston

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Columbia, CA. USA http://www.gildedmoon.com

Answer 59

Any further word on availability of EW3 or is it still July 10th?
What about pricing?
Will it be available for download and/or in stores on July 10?
I am in Canada.

Answer 60

You might want to look in the comments on Soma's blog post. The last one from Steve Guttman seems to indicate that it may not be available on July 10th. http://forum.by-expression.com/forums/p/421/1351.aspx#1351

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MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com and online instructor led Expression Classes

Answer 61

You can follow the launch here:
http://www.seethelight.com/

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Chris Hanscom - Microsoft MVP
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Answer 62

You can follow the launch here:
http://www.seethelight.com/

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Chris Hanscom - Microsoft MVP
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Well that site is not very helpful right now is it! 
I can do the simple math myself to figure out how many days to July 10th!

Answer 63

You can follow the launch here:
http://www.seethelight.com/

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Chris Hanscom - Microsoft MVP
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Well that site is not very helpful right now is it! 
I can do the simple math myself to figure out how many days to July 10th!

You asked if its still on the 10th.  That site will be following the launch.  The site confirms the launch date.

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Answer 64

I will be at the launch and using Twitter during the presentation. I'll also have a blog post or three, some during the presentations and some afterwards. Twitter: http://twitter.com/cdwise if you want to follow what I post during the launch.

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MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com and online instructor led Expression Classes

Answer 65

Thanks for the link Cheryl. I think the SuperPreview feature is enough all by itself to get me to upgrade (from Version 1 -- I skipped Version 2)

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ClarkNK, QVP
HomePage Doctor CHO
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I tried SuperPreview and wont hold my breath for it. It doesnt work for pages where you need to be authenticated ....

Answer 66

As a developer, are you not able to disable authentication in these situations temporarily?

Answer 67

???
And then how do you troubleshoot issues with your authentication pages?

Answer 68

???
And then how do you troubleshoot issues with your authentication pages?

Always assume the entered information is authenticated.  I do this when developing.  I don't want to have to login each time to work on a project that is behind a login.

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Chris Hanscom - Microsoft MVP
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Answer 69

OK, maybe I misunderstood what he said. I was thinking that he meant that there was no way to enter any information.

[EDIT: Hmm, I'm still not sure what's meant in this part of the thread. When you say, "...assume the entered information is authenticated," it sounds as if what you're talking about is validation of entered information, not user authentication. I thought that the poster was talking about using SP to view pages that require authentication to access, and I'm not sure how SP would handle the mechanics of that.]

cheers,
scott

Answer 70

When I enter information in the form or submit the login form (blank) then I take you to a landing page as an assumed user.  I also let the function which checks if a person is logged in return true.  This lets me test and create the system without worrying about logging in.

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Answer 71

My review of EW 3 is not live at My Expression Web v3 review. http://bit.ly/IKAij In case you haven't noticed you can download the trial of v3 from this site at http://expression.microsoft.com/en-us/cc136523.aspx

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MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com and online instructor led Expression Classes

Answer 72

Cheryl, have you been able to download a trial copy of v3 from that location? When I follow the download link there, I am led to version 2.

Answer 73

No, just saw the link so assumed it was live. I'll be back home tomorrow night and will try and schedule a live meeting on v3 for probably next Tuesday. I'll have v3 running then for questions. I'll post the live meeting info on my blog as soon as I have it available.

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MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com and online instructor led Expression Classes

Answer 74

I found the link to download v3 but it keeps directing me to v2... is the trial download not available yet?

Answer 75

The v3 trial is not yet available. It should be available sometime before the Aug 13 shipping date for pre-orders but exactly when nobody knows.

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MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com and online instructor led Expression Classes