Getting started.
- I have tried to read all I can before posting but I have not been able to get my head around "Oslo" yet.
First, I tried installing and the installation gives me what I perceived as an error message indicating that I needed SQL Server 2008. When I went to my MSDN account I found that SQL Server 2008 is not available. Do I need it? What is the general concensus as to dealing with this "road block"?
Second, I would like to see two tutorials. One on using MGrammer to generate a DSL. I have used ANTLR in the past and have found it to be relatively straightforward to specify a DSL. The second tutorial that I would like to see is one that takes an application through the full development cycle. Every where I read how a model-driven application is so accesible to all stakeholders in the cycle. I fail to see where and what form that input takes and how the input is used to change the flow of the application or the output of the application. It all sounds great but I am not sure at this point where to start.
Thank you for your assistance with this very uninformed set of questions.
解答
- For setup, choose the Customize option from the opening screen to see the options checklist, otherwise the Repository will be included by default.
As for your learning questions, Kevin, I'm curious as to where you started in your learning process, because there are plenitful resources on the Oslo Developer Center especially for working with DSLs and grammars. Since I manage the presentation and organization of the content, I'm keen on understanding how to make the right things easier to find.
On the Learn page, we're especially trying to organize content as roadmaps for learning. Under the "M" section, for instance, the "Modeling in Text" video that's linked on the first line of the list walks through the basic processes of creating a grammar. There is also a section in that list that has specific DSL tutorials. Did you not see those?
As much as we have for the end-to-end modeling story is in the "What is Oslo?" grouping at the top of the Learn page, primarily the Getting Started with "Oslo" Tutorials and Building Applications in "Oslo" links. I say "as much as we have" because realizing the entire end-to-end Oslo story relies on work that hasn't been completed yet. Do remember that this is an early Community Technology Preview (CTP), not a completed product. Much of this has been put out very early in the game specifically to garner feedback from developers.
I'll add that I'd love to see the very tutorial you're asking about: I've been asking for one since I started working with Oslo last fall! But the pieces just aren't there yet (e.g. a completed model-driven application framework for certain classes of applications), so we're trying to do the best we can in the meantime.
What I'd suggest for you now, then, is to use this forum to discuss some of your project's needs and goals. Many of the participants here will gladly share their insights as to how to apply Oslo technologies even in their present state to move in the direction you want to go.
.Kraig- 已提議為解答Kraig BrockschmidtMSFT, 版主Friday, 5 June, 2009 23:56
- 已標示為解答KevinBurton Tuesday, 9 June, 2009 19:06
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- You need Sql 2008 only if you want to use the repository. Just remove the repository check in the first page setup and the SDK install just fine.
In order to play with grammars, you just need Intellipad in the first. Just start it, set the main window to DSL mode, choose split Output and input panes via the window menu, place your grammar in the DSL pane, some input test in the input view, and you will see the AST in the output pane.
If you are used to antlr, you will certanely appreciate an improved productivity... - Thank you for your comments. I have one question. I just run the .exe what is the first page that you are referring to? Maybe I missed it when I was installing (trying to use all the defaults) As I remember the first page of the installation gave me two options. One I think was 'Install' and two was something like 'Explore' (though I don't remember for certain).
- The checkbox I'm referring to is in the setup, if I remember well is the first page after "install". Anyway, if your setup completed, you can use Intellipad (ipad.exe) in the DSL mode. SQL2008 is only needed for Quadrant, AFAIK.
- For setup, choose the Customize option from the opening screen to see the options checklist, otherwise the Repository will be included by default.
As for your learning questions, Kevin, I'm curious as to where you started in your learning process, because there are plenitful resources on the Oslo Developer Center especially for working with DSLs and grammars. Since I manage the presentation and organization of the content, I'm keen on understanding how to make the right things easier to find.
On the Learn page, we're especially trying to organize content as roadmaps for learning. Under the "M" section, for instance, the "Modeling in Text" video that's linked on the first line of the list walks through the basic processes of creating a grammar. There is also a section in that list that has specific DSL tutorials. Did you not see those?
As much as we have for the end-to-end modeling story is in the "What is Oslo?" grouping at the top of the Learn page, primarily the Getting Started with "Oslo" Tutorials and Building Applications in "Oslo" links. I say "as much as we have" because realizing the entire end-to-end Oslo story relies on work that hasn't been completed yet. Do remember that this is an early Community Technology Preview (CTP), not a completed product. Much of this has been put out very early in the game specifically to garner feedback from developers.
I'll add that I'd love to see the very tutorial you're asking about: I've been asking for one since I started working with Oslo last fall! But the pieces just aren't there yet (e.g. a completed model-driven application framework for certain classes of applications), so we're trying to do the best we can in the meantime.
What I'd suggest for you now, then, is to use this forum to discuss some of your project's needs and goals. Many of the participants here will gladly share their insights as to how to apply Oslo technologies even in their present state to move in the direction you want to go.
.Kraig- 已提議為解答Kraig BrockschmidtMSFT, 版主Friday, 5 June, 2009 23:56
- 已標示為解答KevinBurton Tuesday, 9 June, 2009 19:06
- One other note that one of our writers pointed out: to satisfy the SQL Server 2008 requirement you can use the express edition. The download is http://www.microsoft.com/express/sql/download/.
.Kraig
