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Problem with Windows 7, Hardware Drivers or Acer T230H Multitouch Monitor?

    Question

  • I'm slightly confused as to where the problem I have lies here, so I'm hoping for a bit of clarity. I have an Acer T230H Multitouch monitor on Win 7 64bit and I'm developing on it for my Honours Project, however the monitor, at times, gets a little confused.

    When in Paint, or my own application (paint is just easier to explain) multi touch works fine until I use two input points and rotate my fingers around each other, at which point the input points seem to get confused and shoot off in opposite directions, as if going for the other finger. I can possibly upload a video to youtube if noone understands. This causes rotation to be a total nightmare and unreliable, which I'm definitely not happy about for the presentation. I don't have access to another multi touch monitor so I can't do tests so perhaps some people can tell me of similar problems, perhaps even some people have the same monitor and would comment on if they have the same problems?

    I'd like to know mainly how to fix this, I have tried recalibrating and other things but it remains problematic. I can see 3 of the most likely scenarios:
    - It's a Windows 7 problem, perhaps will be patched in time for the big presentation in April
    - It's a driver problem for the hardware, and perhaps may be patched if I pester Acer
    - It's a problem with my actual monitor, which would mean I would have to send it back and possibly lose weeks of vital development, which would not be ideal

    Can anyone help me out any here?
    Friday, February 12, 2010 2:54 PM

Answers

  • Thank you for sharing that, it's a known issue with 2-camera displays.  The degree of how bad it can be depends on the filter driver.  Acer may release a driver update, which is what it looks like you need.
    • Marked as answer by Noss4488 Wednesday, February 17, 2010 3:29 PM
    Friday, February 12, 2010 10:11 PM
    Owner

All replies

  • I've uploaded a video to youtube giving a brief demonstration of what I mean. It can be found here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR23EOTkZBk

    Thanks again
    Friday, February 12, 2010 3:28 PM
  • Thank you for sharing that, it's a known issue with 2-camera displays.  The degree of how bad it can be depends on the filter driver.  Acer may release a driver update, which is what it looks like you need.
    • Marked as answer by Noss4488 Wednesday, February 17, 2010 3:29 PM
    Friday, February 12, 2010 10:11 PM
    Owner
  • I am having the exact same issue. I just picked up the same monitor and the application I am developing will need to be able to track two fingered input like this properly.
    I hope Asus fixes this problem fast, as my app will actually generate sales for these screens!
    Tuesday, February 16, 2010 7:29 AM
  • I have the same problem. I also think it is either windows 7 or a driver problem.

    I noticed that there is not only a rotation problem :
    If you press the 2 fingers shortly and then press again the 2 fingers with a rotation of 90 degrees keeping same center and spacing, the second touch sends the position of the first touch fingers.

    Touches :
    F
                   and then      F       F
    F

    Give :

    F                                    F
                  and then  
    F                                    F


    I bought 2 T230H screens and my application really needs rotations and finger detection to work.
    Does anyone know if the iiyama ProLite T2250MTS-B1 works better ?

    Friday, March 05, 2010 1:00 PM
  • Just thought I'd leave a quick update to those who are experiencing a similar problem.

    Acer finally got back in touch with me regarding the problem. Here's what they said:



    Thank you for contacting Acer UKI’ll be happy to assist you…

    It sounds like it may be advisable to perform a system recovery on your machine to rule out that the problem is a software related one. In order to do so, you will need to launch the Disk2Disk recovery feature (which should be supported by your machine). This can be initiated by pressing ALT + F10 when the computer is first switched on. You will need to hold down ALT as soon as the Acer splash screen appears, and repeatedly press F10. The window of opportunity is very small, so this may take a few attempts. The Disk2Disk recovery feature allows you to recover the system without recovery CDs. This will return your system to factory settings and will delete everything stored on the machine. If possible we strongly advise backing up anything important on your machine before starting the recovery process.

    If you are unable to complete the recovery process, please do not hesitate to contact us again, as there may be another problem with the machine.

    If there is any thing else that I can assist you with please feel free to let us know.

    Respectfully,
    Acer UK
    Online Technical Support



    So basically their response was to format my machine, a completely ludicrous suggestion considering the circumstances. I also had a chance to test an Ilyama Prolite T2250MTS Multitouch monitor, which had the same problem. After doing some research I discovered this:


    which contains the Optical, Surface Acoustic Wave, and Bending Wave PDF. This requires registration, but basically the PDF explains a little how the Two Camera System works, which led me to believe that the underlying problem is caused by one finger going into the shadow caused by the other finger. Now as of right now this is strictly an assumption, and I may be way off, but the impression I have is that it would not be too hard to fix, possibly by a feature of the monitor drivers which tracks the last few movements working out the speed and velocity of each point, enabling the monitor to make a more accurate prediction about which finger should be where.

    If anyone is interested I'll keep in touch about what I find out. It seems like, as suggested above, this is simply a significant flaw with the two camera system which limits Multi-Touch functionality, but despite being useful to my project's research section it's also slightly interesting and I'm enjoying (if that would be the right word...) trying to understand the fault and suggesting a fix to make our "Multi-touch monitors" actually Multi-touch.

    Thanks,
    Chris
    • Proposed as answer by Dave Rathbone Thursday, March 25, 2010 10:06 AM
    Tuesday, March 16, 2010 6:13 PM
  • This is pretty interesting, you may want to see if you can improve the responsiveness with different lighting.  Maybe full-spectrum lighting may help.

    Tuesday, March 16, 2010 6:35 PM
    Owner
  • Hi Just to let you know. I have made my own driver for Windows XP reading the T230H USB returned 14 bytes.

    Which give you two mice x,y absolute screen cords and 2 button states on off screen and the total of fingers on the screen.

    I get the same cross over as you rotate your fingers. This is a product of the capacitive screen reading hardware not the OS!!!

    I find the sensistivity of the touch screen a real pain as it will work with your finger about 10mm away!

    This catch's other touch buttons I have in my application as the user moves off one to the next screen button.

    My USB driver will not work  on 64bit OS as I am calling 32bit Kernal API's in XP. But for XP this is OK! Winows Net 4 supports multi touch for VB.net an C#.net

    However you have to use the WPF stuff!! Which is great if your developing web pages.  If you can call the .net 4 functions as without WPF let me know?

    In the mean time I will write a 64bit USB driver.

     

    Thanks

    Dave

    • Edited by Dave Rathbone Thursday, March 25, 2010 10:30 AM Changed text
    Thursday, March 25, 2010 10:28 AM
  • I am a developer working primarily in C# and the XNA framework, I recently purchased 2 Acer T230H multi touch enabled monitors.

    Several days ago I set the first one up and immediately noticed the issue you mentioned while demonstrating in paint. I have found that if you attempt to draw in paint with two fingers, both left and right pointers, and draw parallel lines that the paint brushes will eventually glitch into a single brush taking coordinates that are between both fingers. This does not seem to fit the same assumption as the finger shadowing cause that Noss suggested. This issue seems much like the same issue of touching multiple points on a non-multitouch display where the point reported is actually a midpoint of all the touches recieved.

    I have had several initial issues getting these Acer monitors configured correctly. Some of these issues had to do with my graphics processor's capabilities, some of the issues have had to do with Acer's eDisplay Management software (Which is quite horrible), these other issues I can assume have to do with Acer's drivers. If this is so, I definitely look forward to better support for Acer's multitouch enabled displays.

    Saturday, April 17, 2010 7:13 PM
  • Hi Dave,

     

    We've been looking for an XP driver for this model.  Would you be willing to share?

     

    Thanks!

    Chris

    Monday, May 03, 2010 2:23 PM
  • Hi Chris,

    The Windows7 drivers for the Acer T230H is more as a "Toy" if you just need some basic multi-touch functions. For XP you have no support by Acer.  I first wrote some control in code for XP and it works, but I also needed the same control on a 64bit system. Windows7 see's the Acer as a HID device which it "owns" and you have no way of getting to it at low level.

    My fix was to take an off the shelf Microchip PIC32 usb StarterKit and plug the Aser USB into it. The PIC32 code I wrote reads the ACER T230H USB HID 14bytes data and sends it back out via a serial port. I used the FTDI serial to USB. So that the Serial data is back as USB.

    I then just read the 14 bytes data via a serial into my dot.net API. I have now got windows 7 or XP under my control and for my customers API I can control complex XYZ motor systems with two finger touch. e.g. like two joysticks.

    I have multy-sliders that the user can also control. I even over came the effect of the user moving fingers accross and being picked up at a distance by adding a confirm on off screen touch.

    I also have two screens working side by side!

    Just to add a note about Windows WPF. I also have written DirectX 3D controls to rollx,y or roll x,y,z images in "VB.net"! It was hard work but dot.net does it! so you do not need WPF! You can keep your windows forms and classes and more important you can do it in VB!

    If you need any help please contact me.

    Regards

    Dave (Electronics and Software Developer)

     

     

     

    Thursday, May 06, 2010 8:08 AM
  • See my note to Chris
    Thursday, May 06, 2010 8:12 AM
  • Hi Dave,

    Uh, yeah.  Maybe I should have mentioned that I'm not a programmer so much as a SysAdmin in need of an installable driver solution.  =) I actually understood most of how you accomplished what you did and I am very impressed.  However I lack the necessary skills, software and time to re-create your solution on my own.

    My situation is relatively simple.  We purchased several of these monitors for installation in a new facility.  The original spec called for Win7 PCs but we ended up with XP Pro 32-bit instead.  Needless to say our monitors look great but we have no touch input now for lack of the driver.  The app that requires the touch input is very basic and only requires single touch capability.  Sounds like your driver does much more which would be great for any future needs that may arise without updating to Win7.

    Would you be willing to provide your basic XP code as a compiled driver that I could use to drive the touch input on these?  Your help is very much appreciated.

     

    Regards,

    Chris

    Thursday, May 06, 2010 7:08 PM
  • Hi Dave

    Sounds fantastic; I like the hardware workaround via the serial port!  I have three Acer T230H touchscreens sitting here, but sadly am still running XP (Pro SP3; and Tablet SP3 on another comp).  Is there any way I could get hold of your XP (single-touch etc) USB driver?  I'd be very happy to reimburse you for your time & expertise, as it would save me updating two OSs to Win7, for the time being!

    Thanks

    Shane

    Saturday, May 15, 2010 1:23 PM
  • Hi,

    For some days now I'm also using Acer T230H on Win XP SP3 and didn't get the touch to work at first. But with usb view utility I checked the VID=0x0408 and PID=0x3000. Looking up these ID's tells me it's a TACTION Touch screen by Quanta Computer. It appears the HP L2105tm monitor has the same touchscreen and HP does provide support for this model for Win XP and even for Win 2k.

    So lucky for all Acer T230H owners on 2k/XP: the touch driver is compatible and can be downloaded from http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/SoftwareIndex.jsp?lang=en&cc=uk&prodNameId=4031753&prodTypeId=382087&prodSeriesId=4031739&swLang=13&taskId=135&swEnvOID=228

    Tested and working over here :) Good luck! (Don't know if multi-touch is working too, because single-touch is enough for me.)

    Regards,

    Erlan

    Wednesday, May 19, 2010 11:00 AM
  • Great work Erlan. Worked well for me also. Besides a fly issue?

    Is there anyway to adjust sensitivity, the room i have it setup in at work has a major fly issue. every time they land on the screen they create a mouse click event.

    Cheers,

    MJ

    Thursday, May 20, 2010 10:19 AM
  • Just in case anyone out there in cyberland comes across this old thread, a word of warning.  I bought one of these t230h Acer monitors and it sucks.  The touch capability is inconsistent and Acer support is terrible.  I regret buying one of these and I doubt I'll every buy an Acer product again. 

    Cheers,

    leehager@hotmail.com

    Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:58 PM
  • Elboyj, this is definitely not the place to be belligerently spewing your slanderous comments. 

    This is a thread about issues with Windows 7 and multi touch support with these monitors to help in making the experience - that you did not enjoy - better.

    These monitors are great, better support for multi touch needs to happen for both sides of the fence (Windows and Acer). And I hope that comes soon.

    Thursday, August 19, 2010 11:08 PM
  • Unfortunately throughout my project I didn't find a solution, and as far as I can work out there is no solution possible. These devices are made to be cheap consumer monitors for multi touch, relying on the fact that the majority of multi touch functions can be done with one finger (for example, using IE). The technique using the two cameras is not the best method of accepting multi-touch input, however for the cost of the monitor it is the best choice for experimenting with development if you don't work in a company with a large amount of disposable income. 

     

    I'm not sure if the drivers are slightly flawed, or could be improved at all, but I dedicated a section of my dissertation to this problem and if anyone would like to read it then let me know and I'll upload it somewhere. (please note that I make no claim that it is 100% accurate, just simply a list of the problems and what the most likely cause is).

     

    Cheers,

    Chris

    Wednesday, September 22, 2010 8:36 AM
  • Thnaks Erlan, all i needed was a simple touch interface, works well

    Cheers

     

    Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:31 PM
  • Dave,

    I have this Acer touchscreen running on a Windows 7 PC.  My issue is that I need to be able to limit the x-y coordinates the touchscreen "sees" as the desktop so that I can use it effectively in extended desktop mode with other non-touch monitors.  Would your driver accomplish this?  I would really appreciate it if you could provide your advice.  If I could use your driver, it would save me a ton of time.  I havent found many touchscreens that let you limit x-y coordinates and that's what I need since I am using ATI eyefinity to use touchscreen as 1 monitor in a set of 4 (others are not touchscreens).

    Thanks,

    -Ben

    Monday, January 24, 2011 5:46 AM
  • Dave,

     

    We need a Windows XP x86 driver for this touchscreen for an embedded application. Is yours available? 

     

    Thanks

     

    Jack Saltiel

    Wednesday, February 09, 2011 4:17 PM
  • I tried to download and install this driver. We're running embedded XP x86 that is at the SP2 level. We have no trouble with ELO drivers when we use those touch screen but this driver does not work for some reason. It installs fine. XP recognizes the Taction HID, but it does not recognize a touch. Is there a control panel setup for this screen somewhere or do I have to go through an initialization to make it work?? 

     

    OK - I got it to work, but with the display in Portrait mode, the touchscreen still returns x,y coordinates in landscape mode. Ouch.  Anybody got any ideas to help with this??

    Wednesday, February 09, 2011 4:22 PM
  • Dave, I'm the same boat as dplit and would like something we can install and use. We would be willing to pay for a license and some basic support to get it up and running.
    Wednesday, February 09, 2011 4:23 PM
  • Dave,

     

    It turns my problem is now different ... I got the HP (Quanta) driver installed and running. But we are running the monitor in portrait mode. Unfortunately there is no way to tell the monitor's touchscreen that it is in portrait mode. We would be willing and happy to pay for a custom driver.  Let me know if you can help.

     

    Thanks

     

     

    Jack

     

    Wednesday, February 09, 2011 6:05 PM
  • You all got the wrong way......

    It's no relation with Windows 7.

    The root cause is algorithm, when you press with 1 finger, we can see 1 shadow in 2 camera system, no problem now.

    When 2 fingers, there are 4 shadows in 2 camera system, we need to determine which 2 shadow points are right finger positions, if we only get 1 data at one time, it's impossible to determine, if we got a lot of datas in a continuous period of time, yes we can determine.

    This is called "Finger Tracking Problem". And the bug is "Tracking Algorithm Bug".

    If lower level return Camera Raw Image Data, you can calculate coordinates by yourself, filter driver can fix the bug at this time, but in most cases lower level only return coordinates, the only way to fix is burning firmware via USB or JTAG.

     

    Tuesday, April 26, 2011 1:31 AM
  • Not to hijack this old thread, but there appears to be quite a few T230H users here. I am attempting to use the monitor in a kiosk situation on Windows 7. Power saving features are disabled on system but we have noticed that the touch features of the monitor fail (without error) at least once over a 24 hour period during non use. There are no errors reported in event viewer and the hardware still shows as operating normally in device manager. Power cycling the monitor does not help, and instead the usb cable must be removed and replaced. Once cycled, the touch function of the monitor works, but the Windows 7 touch input bar no longer appears. Nothing changes in device manager. I have been able to reproduce the issue on clean installs of W7 32 and 64. System reboot is the only way to restore full functionality. Acer support is useless and wants me to reinstall the drivers... Has anybody else seen this issue?
    Thursday, May 19, 2011 12:49 PM
  • Not to hijack this old thread, but there appears to be quite a few T230H users here. I am attempting to use the monitor in a kiosk situation on Windows 7. Power saving features are disabled on system but we have noticed that the touch features of the monitor fail (without error) at least once over a 24 hour period during non use. There are no errors reported in event viewer and the hardware still shows as operating normally in device manager. Power cycling the monitor does not help, and instead the usb cable must be removed and replaced. Once cycled, the touch function of the monitor works, but the Windows 7 touch input bar no longer appears. Nothing changes in device manager. I have been able to reproduce the issue on clean installs of W7 32 and 64. System reboot is the only way to restore full functionality. Acer support is useless and wants me to reinstall the drivers... Has anybody else seen this issue?

    I have the same problem with a brand new T230H, new computer etc. The touch feature works for awhile and then simply stops working. Thanks for the tip to remove the usb, that seems to work, but a better fix is needed. Hopefully someone will find one.
    Monday, June 13, 2011 8:23 PM
  • Hi ErlanH,

    My project moved on and now I am using Windows7 with a large number of ACER T230H screens. I never stuck to Windows own HID driver's as it "Sucks".

    My hardware anwser has been the only fix. It makes the montors work well with my own multi-touch needs.

    I would recomend my hardware answer for any class of Windows as Microsoft still do not have a GUI for windows that goes any way near to iPAD or iTouch OS!

     

    If you need any help please contact my email david@rathbone.com.

    Not sure about your HP methord as it still needs to make the OS do what you need it to do with Touch. (Unless you just need a mouse!) 

     I would have replied to some of the older threads had my email been stored correctly!

     

    Kind Regards

    David Rathbone

     


    David@rathbone.com


    Monday, July 11, 2011 12:46 PM
  • It certainly is the right place Ken. The Acer product is a hunk of crap. I purchased two of them and both randomly drop the usb connectivity on any version of Windows 7 (OEM, Retail or volume) 32 or 64 bit, on any hardware platform I have tested them on (I3, C2, AMD, Dell, HP, and umm Acer). The problems happen with an out of the box windows install. None of the other brands that use the same basic chipset or touch screen have this problem. It is an Acer firmware problem and Acer refuses to admit that it exists. I have sent my units back for "repair" and had them returned "fixed" with the same issue still present.

    Wednesday, August 10, 2011 1:41 AM
  • After reading all the threads here concerning some issues with the Acer T230H multi touch screen, I decides to share my experience.  Mine is that the touch screen functions single & multi touchs works pretty well for about 10 minutes.  Then, all stop working, like disconnecting the usb cable.  When I am going in the device manager, everything is OK.  I was thiniking some conflicts between usb1 and usb2 controller.  So I disconnect all USB, reformat my computer, and let the windows driver for the multi touch driving the function.  I also tried to put the driver from Acer edisplay management, or the simple driver on the disk.  Always the same result, touch screen stop working after 10-minutes.  Even on a clean installation of windows7-32bits...

     

    The only way I can have the touch screen function is to reboot, or disconnect the usb cable and reconnect it.  I also go in the device manager, disable the driver and enable it, to resolve the problem.... for another 10-minutes only...

     

    I don't know what to do more to resolve this...

    Thanks,

    steve

     

    Sunday, October 30, 2011 1:12 AM
  • Yeah I like the Monitor its self and its driving me insane, like others have said it works for 10 minutes and stops, I used to have a 15 foot usb  cable running across the room to my media centre Pc that was also connected to my Big Screen, I spent along time moving the whole system and having the shortest USB lead to the monitor, still didnt work I wanna smash it to bits, ACER is useless,  I took it back to the  store, and they tried to recreate the problem but couldnt, but I believe its problem is acumilative so if its plugged in and not used it dosnt stop working, but fails after 10 minutes of constant use.

    Bollox.

    Thursday, December 15, 2011 7:10 PM
  • Jack I have the same issue. I need to use this monitor in Portrait mode. Did you by chance find a suitable driver or solution?

    Your help would be greatly appreciated.

    Cheers,

    John

    Wednesday, August 01, 2012 4:01 AM