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HTTP Live Streaming (HLS)?

    Question

  • Android and iOS are both standardizing on HTTP Live Streaming (HLS) as their adaptive video streaming protocol.  Media hosting providers such as Brightcove are standardizing on this as well.  IIS Media Services supports output with this protocol.  Is there any chance Windows 8 will support consuming it, so that it isn't handicapped when trying to play video using today's standards?  Thanks!
    Tuesday, March 20, 2012 10:04 PM

Answers

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  • Hello Dave,

    We just released the Smoothing Streaming Player (formally known as SMF Player) for Metro. I don't believe that it supports HLS natively but as you said you can setup IIS with Media Services to support both adaptive protocols simultaneously.

    Keep in mind that MPEG-DASH is just around the corner and IMHO this new protocol will revolutionize delivery of media over the internet. I like to think of MPEG-DASH as ATSC or DVB for the internet.

    Smooth Streaming Client SDK Beta
    http://visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/04423d13-3b3e-4741-a01c-1ae29e84fea6

    The MPEG-DASH Standard for Multimedia Streaming Over the Internet
    http://academic.research.microsoft.com/Publication/51157809/the-mpeg-dash-standard-for-multimedia-streaming-over-the-internet


    Windows Media SDK Technologies - Microsoft Developer Services - http://blogs.msdn.com/mediasdkstuff/

    Tuesday, March 20, 2012 11:28 PM
  • That's all well and good but everyone is currently using hls.  I'm trying to write an application for Windows 8 that the video source is hls.  changing video streaming format is not an option and i don't want to setup a server to transcode the providers video so how about ms suck it up and provide support for hls in windows 8 AND windows phone 8.
    Sunday, August 05, 2012 5:27 PM
  • That's all well and good but everyone is currently using hls.  I'm trying to write an application for Windows 8 that the video source is hls.  changing video streaming format is not an option and i don't want to setup a server to transcode the providers video so how about ms suck it up and provide support for hls in windows 8 AND windows phone 8.

    3ivx Technologies is currently working on a third party HLS runtime component for metro apps which will allow HLS playback in metro app's using the standard MediaElement. It should hit beta next week. This would allow you to play HLS content in your metro app without using a transcoding server or re-encoding the content.

    I'd suggest contacting them about getting onto the beta list, sounds like exactly what you need


    • Edited by Mr Stux Monday, August 13, 2012 5:56 AM add link
    Wednesday, August 08, 2012 4:07 AM
  • Yes. at $3500 for a single application your solution doesn't work for me.  How about more realistic pricing on this.  The 3ivx library works great but I can't pay $3500 for one app much less for every application I would potentially write that uses your library.  Even android has hls support so Microsoft how about it??

    http://www.intowp.com

    Thursday, November 22, 2012 7:58 AM
  • $3500 for an m3u8 parser, really ? While Windows8 supports natively Mpeg2TS files it's lame that they didn't added support of HLS.
    Monday, December 24, 2012 11:42 PM
  • I guess HLS is too advanced (authored by Apple) that MS can't implement a proper parser/player.


    Wednesday, January 30, 2013 1:43 AM
  • Hello Dave,

    We just released the Smoothing Streaming Player (formally known as SMF Player) for Metro. I don't believe that it supports HLS natively but as you said you can setup IIS with Media Services to support both adaptive protocols simultaneously.

    Keep in mind that MPEG-DASH is just around the corner and IMHO this new protocol will revolutionize delivery of media over the Internet. I like to think of MPEG-DASH as ATSC or DVB for the internet.

    I'm really losing my temper!

    Yes, certainly MPEG-DASH will be a good thing, but what is now?

    It is a shame. The only thing we can do with wp7/8 is VOD (video on demand). I'd like MS to give up the "hide behind the tree" strategy with the HLS (live streaming) issue.

    I think, Apple has got the patent in fragmented streaming (not only HLS). That means, WP7/8 users dont have the possibility to watch live streams (now) at all.

    To implement the ability to the inbuild player is technical not a problem. Header information, slices, trak, move and so on are the same, as in mp4. The only difference is, they are fragmented into differend files.

    I think, a few students could do that, if they let them. I don't mean an App, there are some in the store, build by studends, that are showing, it is possible. (e.g. dream web tv)

    MPEG-DASH:

    Before that is the standard, we will have the next or overnext generation of devices.

    I've bought that now. I want live streams now.

    And MS:

    if "you"want to push html5 and h264, why stop at the half of the way. So, either pay for the patent, or bring out a proper solution shortly.

    Tell the truth to your customers. Anything else is awkward!

    Every, really every smartphone is able to play live streams. But impossible for the the new windows phone??? Don't tell me, that has got technical reasons!

    I am disappointed.

    Thursday, March 14, 2013 7:40 PM
  • It is a shame. The only thing we can do with wp7/8 is VOD (video on demand). I'd like MS to give up the "hide behind the tree" strategy with the HLS (live streaming) issue.

    ...

    I think, Apple has got the patent in fragmented streaming (not only HLS). That means, WP7/8 users dont have the possibility to watch live streams (now) at all.

    ...

    if "you"want to push html5 and h264, why stop at the half of the way. So, either pay for the patent, or bring out a proper solution shortly.

    ...

    Tell the truth to your customers. Anything else is awkward!

    Every, really every smartphone is able to play live streams. But impossible for the the new windows phone??? Don't tell me, that has got technical reasons!

    Hello ostfriese2,

    We do have a live streaming solution for Windows Phone 8 using Smooth Streaming a similar technology to Apple's HLS.

    http://playerframework.codeplex.com/

    -James


    Windows SDK Technologies - Microsoft Developer Services - http://blogs.msdn.com/mediasdkstuff/

    Thursday, March 14, 2013 10:19 PM
  • To James Dailey

    OK, just to make clear, what i'm asking for.

    1.) Is there any way, to get a, what kind ever, live-video-stream to work inside IE(wp8) witout an app?

    2.) Is MS smooth streaming supported by IE(wp8) nativly?

    3.) Are there any plans, to implement HLS into the IE(wp8) in near future?

    4.) Is there any way, to implement the wanted functinality by a 3 party. (Direcltliy into IE(wp8))

    I know, your answer will be four times NO.

    I've tried the suggested playerframework. The excample is good, and easy to use.

    It is working at the Pc with up to date browsers, but no chance to get it to work at wp8 directly inside IE8(wp8).

    And that is, because your answer to question #2 will be NO.

    A lot of the users want to get rid off:

    Error: cannot play this file on your phone.

    (I'm only guessing the english error message, because my Phone "is" german)

    The only way to achive that, is that MS implements HLS into the IE(wp8).

    Off course i can build an App for live streaming, but, why build an App for streaming. What kind off advantage of HTML5 is left, if we have to build Apps for using all the skills of it?

    Android, Apple and Blackerry phones have got it implement.

    Can you tell me a raeson, why not my new, expencive windows phone?

    I confirm, what i said, let some students in your company do it. There are several working SDK. So, just implement them directly into the IE(wp8).

    We user only can do an app, because of the restrictions.

    Implement it, and a lot of users will be happy to never see again: Error: cannot play this file on your phone.

    Cheers.


    • Edited by ostfriese2 Friday, March 15, 2013 5:33 PM
    Friday, March 15, 2013 4:46 PM
  • Hello,

    Thanks for the clarification. This forum is specific to Windows Store apps and your post is more about IE for Windows Phone 8. I would ask that if interested please continue this conversation in the appropriate forum so as to not confuse the discussion here. A link to the appropriate forum is listed below:

    http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/winphone/forum/wp8

    You can also make a feature request for WP8 by following this link:

    http://windowsphone.uservoice.com/forums/101801-feature-suggestions

    I hope this helps,

    James


    Windows SDK Technologies - Microsoft Developer Services - http://blogs.msdn.com/mediasdkstuff/

    Friday, March 15, 2013 10:08 PM
  • To James Dailey

    I've done, what you asked me to do, but i didn't get an answer.

    By the way, i think, all followers inside this thread would be glad to get an answer to my questions. and i'm not your opinion, that i'm confusing the thread!!!

    It is fairly equal, weather we are talking about Windows 8, Windows 8 RT or WP8.

    The questions are the same!

    So, would you please answer them:

    1.) Is there any way, to get a, what kind ever, live-video-stream to work inside IE witout an app?

    2.) Is MS smooth streaming supported by IE nativly?

    3.) Are there any plans, to implement HLS into the IE in near future?

    4.) Is there any way, to implement the wanted functinality by a 3 party. (Direcltliy into IE)

    And to all other followers of the thread, if you follow my opinion, feel free to mention it here.

    May be, we will get an answer then.

    And if you can't answer the question, because we are in the wrong forum, i've got  questions that definitly belongs to this forum.

    1.) Why do we need an sdk to play hls video streams inside ie in windows 8?

    2.) Do we need an sdk to use smoth streaming for live streams inside ie?

    And if you can't, or don't want to answer, it might be easier for you to find someone inside your company, who can answer.

    If MS don't want to answer at all, so tell it to us.

    To send me to other forums, to ask my questions is senseless if i don't get an answer as well!

    Cheers




    • Edited by ostfriese2 Tuesday, March 19, 2013 3:21 PM
    Tuesday, March 19, 2013 3:15 PM
  • Hi Ostfiese2,

    Repeating an off-topic post does not make it on-topic. Since your questions are not covered in this forum they cannot be answered here.

    I am locking this thread.

    --Rob

    Tuesday, March 19, 2013 4:30 PM