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Status update: Windows Phone 8 Developer Tools (2012.06.21)

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  • The Windows Phone 8 development tools are scheduled for release later this summer (2012). At that time, a developer forum will become available.

    Windows Phone 8 is based on the same core as used in Windows 8.  This rich, shared technology approach offers many benefits to developers.  Shared developer technologies make it easier for you to develop code that can be more easily reused across many platforms and/or screens (phone, tablet, desktop PC, server, XNA).  The development skills you acquire in one platform can be applied to other platforms.

     

    For example,

    § Developers can use XAML/.NET or DirectX/C++ to write apps and games for Windows Phone 8

    § .NET apps and games can make use of the same .NET business logic code used to program applications for Windows, the web (ASP.NET) and Windows Azure

    § Games written using DirectX can make use of the same DX/C++ code to program games that run on Windows 8, Windows Phone 8, and Xbox.

     

    All Windows Phone 7.x applications will run on Windows Phone 8, and the new Windows Phone 8 developer tools will support building applications for Windows Phone 7.x. This includes both Silverlight and XNA applications. Thus, application developers who wish to target both 7.x and 8.0 phones can build for 7.x.

    The existing consumer can continue to leverage the 100,000+ applications developed for Windows Phone 7.x. Developers can still create 7.x apps, and update their existing 7.x apps.

    Microsoft will make an update available for Windows Phone 7.x named Windows Phone 7.8. This update will include the new Windows Phone 8 Start Screen, and will be made available after Windows Phone 8 launches.

    Windows Phone 8 programming technologies include:

    § Windows 8 Metro UX (WinRT API) technology (if you are familiar with WP7 Silverlight app development, it is an easy transition to learn this).

    § DirectX/C++ native code development, for apps or games. You can port across pre-existing DirectX applications.

    § Standards-based HTML5 programming which can be surfaced in the app via the Web Browser control or as a web page using IE10

     
    The new application development technologies will support the new Windows Phone 8 hardware capabilities, such as multi-core chips, new screen resolutions, SD card support and near-field communication (NFC).  The new Windows Phone 8 devices will be powered by Qualcomm’s Snapdragon S4 Plus mobile processor (8960).

    More info:

    Channel 9 : Windows Phone Summit 

    Thursday, June 21, 2012 8:24 PM

All replies

  • So as a developer, if I were to target the WinRT runtime for a Windows 8, the namespaces, and using statements in the xaml will carry across?  Also will WP8 controls, be transferable to Windows 8?
    Thursday, June 21, 2012 9:37 PM
  • All Windows Phone 7.x applications will run on Windows Phone 8, and the new Windows Phone 8 developer tools will support building applications for Windows Phone 7.x. This includes both Silverlight and XNA applications. Thus, application developers who wish to target both 7.x and 8.0 phones can build for 7.x.

    Is this just a matter of build target? Or do we have to build a version for 7.x and another version for 8? Will Visual Studio allow us to compile the same code for both platforms? (if not, doubles work for us if we want not to abandon 7.x customers)

    Friday, June 22, 2012 1:23 AM
  • Mark, @wpdev (WP Dev Team) posted that XNA will be available for Windows Phone 8, and will provide the same feature set as WP7.  Can you confirm if this is accurate?  Your omission of XNA in relation to WP8 targeted projects seems to be telling a different story.
    Friday, June 22, 2012 1:38 AM
  • I just really hope that native developers won't be second class citizens and will be able to create non-games apps without the interop of managed languages. This is one of the things I am excited in WinRT, that C/C++ developers can finally take advantage of XAML directly. Limiting XAML to just C# would be game breaker for me.
    Friday, June 22, 2012 1:10 PM
  • All Windows Phone 7.x applications will run on Windows Phone 8, and the new Windows Phone 8 developer tools will support building applications for Windows Phone 7.x. This includes both Silverlight and XNA applications. Thus, application developers who wish to target both 7.x and 8.0 phones can build for 7.x.

    Is this just a matter of build target? Or do we have to build a version for 7.x and another version for 8? Will Visual Studio allow us to compile the same code for both platforms? (if not, doubles work for us if we want not to abandon 7.x customers)



    We had same difficulty with the transition from 7.0 to 7.1 SDK. But there the problem was not severe, as all 7.0 phones are elilgible to upgrade to 7.5 (I am not aware of any exception).

    But with WP8 that is not the case. But I don't know if I am right but I feel the post-certification native code compiler should take care of it automatically, would it not? I don't know if that is technically possible.

    But there are many issues. Generally there shouldn't be a problem if you are only using subset of properties / methods. For example, MultiBinding and ConverterParameter don't work in WP7. I assume it would be available in WP8. So if you want to take advantage of such properties, it would be difficult to maintain a common code for both. Even if you have compile time #DEFINEs. At present these can't be used in XAML.

    Those who are doing cross-platform development, especially those who use MonoTouch and Mono for Android, would have already managing UI separately & business logic classees in shared code. If we want to take full advantage of targetted technology we can't escape from optimizing such practices.

    Just, no pains no gains. Am I wrong? Of course, even I want it. If there is way I will be more than happy.
    Friday, June 22, 2012 1:34 PM
  • So as a developer, if I were to target the WinRT runtime for a Windows 8, the namespaces, and using statements in the xaml will carry across?  Also will WP8 controls, be transferable to Windows 8?

    A large fraction of the WinRT APIs (and XAML technology) will be shared, and in light of that, my understanding is that the namespaces for those APIs will too (in general). A target goal is to make it easier for developers to port their WinRT applications between Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8.

    A smaller set of APIs will be unique to Windows Phone 8, for example to accommodate hardware unique to the Phone.

    -Mark
    Friday, June 22, 2012 2:07 PM
  • A large fraction of the WinRT APIs (and XAML technology) will be shared, and in light of that, my understanding is that the namespaces for those APIs will too (in general). A target goal is to make it easier for developers to port their WinRT applications between Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8.

    A smaller set of APIs will be unique to Windows Phone 8, for example to accommodate hardware unique to the Phone.
    According to Paul Thurrott, it will be WinRTP (WinRT Phone).  Mostly the same with some differences, as was explained during the summit when they mentioned that with a few small code changes they took a Windows 8 Metro app and had it running on Windows Phone 8.  Those "few small code changes" would have been the difference between WinRT and WinRTP.
    Friday, June 22, 2012 2:23 PM
  • All Windows Phone 7.x applications will run on Windows Phone 8, and the new Windows Phone 8 developer tools will support building applications for Windows Phone 7.x. This includes both Silverlight and XNA applications. Thus, application developers who wish to target both 7.x and 8.0 phones can build for 7.x.

    Is this just a matter of build target? Or do we have to build a version for 7.x and another version for 8? Will Visual Studio allow us to compile the same code for both platforms? (if not, doubles work for us if we want not to abandon 7.x customers)


    Yes, if for example you were creating a new app you would choose 7.1 or 8.0 as the build target.  They are not quite the same application architectures, though XAML/UIElements in both targets share a common Silverlight ancestor.  The quickest way to learn about the a Metro style / WinRT based app architecture is to experiment with the Windows 8 release preview and SDK found here.

    An app built for 8.0 will not run in Windows Phone 7.x, but an app built for 7.x will run in Windows Phone 7 or 8. 

    -Mark
    Friday, June 22, 2012 2:24 PM
  • Hi Mark,

    will the WP7.8 include the Wallet for in-app purchases, or this is a WP8-only feature?

    Thanks a lot,
    KakCAT
    Sunday, June 24, 2012 3:49 PM
  • Dear Mark,

    I've been experimenting in Windows 8 to develop for that platform, and I've noticed that I was unable to find any control that acted like a PivotItem.

    So my question is, in how far will the Windows Phone 7 apps be supported in W(P) 8?
    Next to this, there are three versions, Windows Phone 8, Windows 8 (Tablet), Windows 8 (Desktop),, Will all Windows Phone 7 and 8 apps be able to run on the tablet version for Windows 8 or does it require a new app with different width, height, images, etc.

    Next to this, what is the replaced control for Pivot Control in Windows 8? I've been searching but the only thing I saw was a GridListItem (or something named like it), but that's just not THE control I'm looking for..

    Will there be a new section on http://create.msdn.com for the new apps?

    -Lars
    Monday, June 25, 2012 1:17 PM
  • Hi KakCAT,

    To my knowledge, the only WP7.8 feature disclosed is the new shell layout.
    Note also that the ability to use Near Field Communication (NFC) will not be possible on 7.x phones.

    - Mark
    Monday, June 25, 2012 2:58 PM
  • I've been experimenting in Windows 8 to develop for that platform, and I've noticed that I was unable to find any control that acted like a PivotItem.

    So my question is, in how far will the Windows Phone 7 apps be supported in W(P) 8?
    Next to this, there are three versions, Windows Phone 8, Windows 8 (Tablet), Windows 8 (Desktop),, Will all Windows Phone 7 and 8 apps be able to run on the tablet version for Windows 8 or does it require a new app with different width, height, images, etc.

    Next to this, what is the replaced control for Pivot Control in Windows 8? I've been searching but the only thing I saw was a GridListItem (or something named like it), but that's just not THE control I'm looking for..

    Will there be a new section on http://create.msdn.com for the new apps?

    -Lars

    Hi Lars,
    Apps already written for Windows Phone 7 will continue to work in Windows Phone 8. The Windows Phone 8 tools will let you target your application build for 7.1 or 8.0.  Develop for 8.0 if you want to take full advantage of all the new hardware and software features of Windows Phone 8.

    The following information is relevant if your Windows Phone application targets 8.0, and more specifically, Metro style apps.

    A lot of the Metro style app development technology is shared with Windows 8 (tablet or desktop).

    When you choose to port your application, whether from Window Phone 8 to Windows 8 or vice versa, there will be a relatively small subset of APIs that are specific to one platform or the other. For example there are Windows Phone 8 hardware related APIs
    that are unique to the Phone.  Similarly, there will likely be some APIs that work in the Windows 8 desktop/tablet but not in the phone. 

    You will need to decide whether it makes sense to port your app, depending on the hardware sensors etc. needed for your app to work. 

    The screen size metrics are different so it is likely some graphics dimensional modifications may be needed when porting.
    Keep in mind, though, best practices suggest that, in general you should develop your app so that it automatically accommodates the screen dimensions and spacial resolution.  XAML lets you do this fairly easily and naturally; you design your visual UI using proportions instead of absolute positioning.

    Regarding your question about porting between Windows 8 tablet vs. desktop, this question is best suited for the Metro Style Apps Forum; though I suspect that best practices suggest you develop your app to be able to automatically accommodate the screen metrics, so it works regardless of whether it is a tablet or a desktop app.

    The official list of APIs for Windows Phone 8 has not been released. But you should see a lot of shared APIs and UIElements that will make it easier (if not trivial) to port.

    Hope this helps,
    Mark
    Monday, June 25, 2012 4:19 PM
  • One thing I'm still unclear on: will native C/C++ development mean "Native as it was on Windows Phone" (which some would cheer but I'd personally regard as the gateway to a world of dodginess) or "Native as in native on WinRT/Metro"...and if the latter (which I hope), will it be possible to share components between native C/C++ and .NET languages in a similar way to Windows 8 Metro?
    Tuesday, June 26, 2012 1:43 AM
  • Please can you clarify:

    When using XNA - is it possible target 8.0 only? 

    Is XNA on wp8 just backwards compatibility. 

    If not, are there plans to provide WP8 only features in XNA?

    Will targeting WP8 with XNA allow use of shaders?

    (im fairly sure these are questions that many people who don't WANT to move to native want to know)
    Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:37 AM
  • I've been experimenting in Windows 8 to develop for that platform, and I've noticed that I was unable to find any control that acted like a PivotItem.

    So my question is, in how far will the Windows Phone 7 apps be supported in W(P) 8?
    Next to this, there are three versions, Windows Phone 8, Windows 8 (Tablet), Windows 8 (Desktop),, Will all Windows Phone 7 and 8 apps be able to run on the tablet version for Windows 8 or does it require a new app with different width, height, images, etc.

    Next to this, what is the replaced control for Pivot Control in Windows 8? I've been searching but the only thing I saw was a GridListItem (or something named like it), but that's just not THE control I'm looking for..

    Will there be a new section on http://create.msdn.com for the new apps?

    -Lars

    Hi Lars,
    Apps already written for Windows Phone 7 will continue to work in Windows Phone 8. The Windows Phone 8 tools will let you target your application build for 7.1 or 8.0.  Develop for 8.0 if you want to take full advantage of all the new hardware and software features of Windows Phone 8.

    The following information is relevant if your Windows Phone application targets 8.0, and more specifically, Metro style apps.

    A lot of the Metro style app development technology is shared with Windows 8 (tablet or desktop).

    When you choose to port your application, whether from Window Phone 8 to Windows 8 or vice versa, there will be a relatively small subset of APIs that are specific to one platform or the other. For example there are Windows Phone 8 hardware related APIs
    that are unique to the Phone.  Similarly, there will likely be some APIs that work in the Windows 8 desktop/tablet but not in the phone. 

    You will need to decide whether it makes sense to port your app, depending on the hardware sensors etc. needed for your app to work. 

    The screen size metrics are different so it is likely some graphics dimensional modifications may be needed when porting.
    Keep in mind, though, best practices suggest that, in general you should develop your app so that it automatically accommodates the screen dimensions and spacial resolution.  XAML lets you do this fairly easily and naturally; you design your visual UI using proportions instead of absolute positioning.

    Regarding your question about porting between Windows 8 tablet vs. desktop, this question is best suited for the Metro Style Apps Forum; though I suspect that best practices suggest you develop your app to be able to automatically accommodate the screen metrics, so it works regardless of whether it is a tablet or a desktop app.

    The official list of APIs for Windows Phone 8 has not been released. But you should see a lot of shared APIs and UIElements that will make it easier (if not trivial) to port.

    Hope this helps,
    Mark


    Mark, you provided very valuable info. Thanks!
    Tuesday, June 26, 2012 1:10 PM
  • One thing I'm still unclear on: will native C/C++ development mean "Native as it was on Windows Phone" (which some would cheer but I'd personally regard as the gateway to a world of dodginess) or "Native as in native on WinRT/Metro"...and if the latter (which I hope), will it be possible to share components between native C/C++ and .NET languages in a similar way to Windows 8 Metro?

    Hi Kevin,
    The tools and the supported APIs are not quite yet at a state where we can supply compatibility details, but in general look for an improved porting experience compatibility between Windows 8 and Window Phone 8, because the core operating system for Windows Phone 8 is derived from the Windows 8 operating system.  All previous versions of Phone (7 and below) used the Windows CE operating system. 

    • The common Metro design platform gives developers a single framework from which to design application experiences, (leveraging controls that are specific to each form factor)
    • Developers building games based on DirectX will be able to reuse substantial amounts of their code in delivering games for both Windows and Windows Phone
    • Developers building applications using XAML/.NET will be able to reuse substantial amounts of their business logic code across Windows and Windows Phone
    • Developers will be able to build compute only Win RT components that can be leveraged by both Windows and Windows Phone applications with no alteration whatsoever

    Hope this helps,
    Mark
    Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:50 PM
  • Please can you clarify:

    When using XNA - is it possible target 8.0 only? 
    Is XNA on wp8 just backwards compatibility. 
    If not, are there plans to provide WP8 only features in XNA
    Will targeting WP8 with XNA allow use of shaders?
    (im fairly sure these are questions that many people who don't WANT to move to native want to know)

    Hi,
    Yes you can target an XNA application for 8.0 phones only, or you can specify 7.1.  If you choose 7.1 the app will work in 7.1 or 8.0 phones for backwards compatibility.
    The final specs for the tools are not yet official, so I cannot provide feature details, such as whether there are additional APIs or features when an XNA 8.0 build style is chosen.

    -Mark
    Tuesday, June 26, 2012 3:08 PM
  • Hello,

    I have two questions:

    1. Will there be a SDK for WP 7.8? So that I could update my existing WP7 app to take advantage of the new tile sizes in WP7.8 (and WP8).

    2. When migrating an app from 7.0 to 7.1, there was a very simple option provided in Visual Studio. I assume that this will not be the case when migrating your app to WP8 (you can "only" reuse a lot of code), is that correct?

    Thank you.
    Tuesday, June 26, 2012 5:39 PM
  • Hello,
    1. Will there be a SDK for WP 7.8? So that I could update my existing WP7 app to take advantage of the new tile sizes in WP7.8 (and WP8).

    2. When migrating an app from 7.0 to 7.1, there was a very simple option provided in Visual Studio. I assume that this will not be the case when migrating your app to WP8 (you can "only" reuse a lot of code), is that correct?

    Hi Philipp,
    Regarding (1), I would love to answer your questions today but the internal plan of record is to only report the details after the corresponding SDK(s) have released.  Stay tuned for more information in the coming months.
    For (2), you are correct.  The migration process likely won't be as simple as the 7.0->7.1 scenario, where 7.1 is largely an extension of 7.0 tools capabilities. You can get an advance feel for the differences by comparing a Windows 8 WinRT metro style app against a Windows Phone 7.1 Silverlight app.  Both technologies do share Silverlight/XAML ancestry.

    -Mark
    Tuesday, June 26, 2012 9:17 PM
  • On the tools subject...I seem to remember reading somewhere that the new emulator will be Hyper-V based - does that mean I won't be able to use my Core 2 Duo laptop?
    Wednesday, June 27, 2012 12:54 AM
  • It will most probably mean that to develop WP8 apps, you will need to be running Windows 8.
    Wednesday, June 27, 2012 3:37 AM
  • Hey Mark, if it's not too late for feedback, I'd very much like to see some sort of DirectX + XAML solution for WP8. Optimally the SwapChainBackgroundPanel ( http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/windows.ui.xaml.controls.swapchainbackgroundpanel.aspx ) as that's what the Windows 8 project framework I'm creating uses, but anything would be good. If there's anything you can tell us now about DirectX + XAML on WP8 that'd be great as it would help me structure things better (i.e. if I couldn't use XAML controls with DirectX on WP8 then I would be spend more time now decoupling and abstracting things to take that into account).
    Wednesday, June 27, 2012 5:53 AM
  • Running on Windows 8 isn't a problem as such - it's currently running the RC without any problems.
    The issue is that I don't think my laptop meets the hardware requirements for Hyper-V.

    It would be nice of course to be able to develop for WP8 on my desktop machine (which probably does meet the hardware req.s, but which I'm not in any hurry to move to Windows 8 - I like Aero etc.) while it' still running Windows 7, but you're probably right about that.
    Wednesday, June 27, 2012 5:56 AM
  • And for those who choose at least initially to stick with XNA targeting WP8 (after all, Direct X plus C/C++ is a non-trivial thing to pick up from scratch) - will we have a XAML + XNA option as we have Silverlight + XNA for 7.5?
    Because that would be good.
    Wednesday, June 27, 2012 6:01 AM
  • AT first I was upset, then frustrated, and then now I am alright with Microsoft not giving Windows Phone 8 to the people who bought older phones and are running Windows Phone 7.0 or 7.5. It is not personal, it's business! On the bright side I can create apps for the Windows Phone 7.5 and it will work on Windows Phone 8.

    I am no longer a 100% supporter of any technology company any more. Apple has it's fanboys and fangirls and I was a Microsoft Fanboy, but no longer. This has taught me a leason to never fully support one tech company. It is best to support more than one. SO Mr. Ballmer, I can say you are no Bill Gates! Bill Gates still rules and will always be the best head cheese that Microsoft ever had.
    Wednesday, June 27, 2012 2:09 PM
  • Hi,

    Native application support will enable developers to build DirectX games with C++ as well as build component libraries for XAML applications. I don't have information to supply whether graphical interoperation between DirectX and XAML is possible.

    Regarding the minimum hardware build environment, the details are not officially released.
    In any event you can prepare to learn the new technologies by installing the Windows 8 Release Preview.

    Hope this helps,
    Mark
    Wednesday, June 27, 2012 3:21 PM
  • Hey Mark, if it's not too late for feedback, I'd very much like to see some sort of DirectX + XAML solution for WP8. Optimally the SwapChainBackgroundPanel ( http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/windows.ui.xaml.controls.swapchainbackgroundpanel.aspx ) as that's what the Windows 8 project framework I'm creating uses, but anything would be good. If there's anything you can tell us now about DirectX + XAML on WP8 that'd be great as it would help me structure things better (i.e. if I couldn't use XAML controls with DirectX on WP8 then I would be spend more time now decoupling and abstracting things to take that into account).



    Hi Mark.We are also really depending on seeing SurfaceImageSource (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/windows.ui.xaml.media.imaging.surfaceimagesource.aspx) in WP8.Need a fast drawing control that will be consumed by a C# XAML Client app.This is a must in order to reuse code between WP8 and Windows8.Is there a way we can know if this will be supported on the phone aswell?
    Wednesday, June 27, 2012 10:33 PM
  • Hi,

    Regarding SurfaceImageSource  etc., unfortunately further information about this (and other API cross compatibility info) is not available at this time. It will be necessary to wait until the Windows Phone 8 SDK is released later this summer.

    -Mark
    Thursday, June 28, 2012 3:19 PM
  • I believe the current emulator uses a hypervisor, hence you're not able to run it inside a virtual machine. If you're able to run the current one I think you might be okay with the next.
    Thursday, June 28, 2012 3:57 PM
  • I believe the current emulator uses a hypervisor, hence you're not able to run it inside a virtual machine. If you're able to run the current one I think you might be okay with the next.


    It doesn't follow, unfortunately.
    Hyper-V has specific hardware prerequisites which the current emulator does not (not that it doesn't have hardware prerequisites, just not those ones).
    Thursday, June 28, 2012 4:25 PM
  • I believe the current emulator uses a hypervisor, hence you're not able to run it inside a virtual machine. If you're able to run the current one I think you might be okay with the next.


    It doesn't follow, unfortunately.
    Hyper-V has specific hardware prerequisites which the current emulator does not (not that it doesn't have hardware prerequisites, just not those ones).


    I haven’t tried this as I am running W8 RP build 8400 x64 and dev tools in a VM (VMware player). Don’t think I could run a VM in a VM, so I haven’t tried running it. If you have a hard install of W8, then you could give this it a try to see if your hardware is capable of running Hyper-V.

     

    http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windows8/windows-8-feature-focus-client-hyperv-142889

     

    Another article;

     

    http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windows8/windows-8-tip-virtualize-hyperv-143521

     

    As mention I am running W8 in a VM, no issues running Express 2012 RC using the simulator or local machine. I haven’t had any issues running either version of W8 in a VM (VMware player) with dev tools.

    Thursday, June 28, 2012 11:20 PM
  • Will there be network support at the socket level in Windows Phone 7.8 sdk?
    Friday, June 29, 2012 3:48 PM
  • Will there be network support at the socket level in Windows Phone 7.8 sdk?

    The only WP 7.8 SDK feature that was mentioned was the new visual shell implementation.

    -Mark
    Friday, June 29, 2012 4:51 PM
  • I really hope that it will be possible to create UIs with XAML/C++ because I want to finally create Apps without the CLR overhead. I know, you cannot disclose much in this regard right now, but I still wanted to give feeback because for me this would be a deal-breaker (I use XAML/C++/Dx on Windows8).
    Sunday, July 01, 2012 10:19 PM
  • Hi,

    Regarding SurfaceImageSource  etc., unfortunately further information about this (and other API cross compatibility info) is not available at this time. It will be necessary to wait until the Windows Phone 8 SDK is released later this summer.

    -Mark

    UI Mixing (XAML and DirectX) on WP8 same as Win8 :

    http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_phone/b/wpdev/archive/2012/06/29/recapping-windows-phone-8-developer-news.aspx

    Tuesday, July 03, 2012 6:33 AM
  • UI Mixing (XAML and DirectX) on WP8 same as Win8 :

    http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_phone/b/wpdev/archive/2012/06/29/recapping-windows-phone-8-developer-news.aspx

    I wouldn't be surprised if it was slightly different.  In Windows 8, XAML apps can be written in C++, C# or HTML5/JS.  On Windows Phone 8, C++ can only be used for DirectX apps or for libraries consumed by C#/XAML apps.  Notice that Kevin Gallo specifically mentions mixing C#/XAML with DirectX/C++ and consuming C++ libraries in C# apps.  Kevin Gallo never said it was the same as in Windows 8.  Just that in the case of mixing some C#/XAML and DirectX/C++ it was indeed possible.  This appears different than the DirectX/XAML interop support in Windows 8.  The three methods of DirectX/XAML interop supported by Windows 8 all assume the use of C++ (though it is possible to do it all in C# via the use of SharpDX).  The point here is that there are some not so insignificant differences between Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8, so you cannot assume that it works the same on both platforms when that is not specifically what Kevin said.
    Tuesday, July 03, 2012 12:52 PM

  • I've been experimenting in Windows 8 to develop for that platform, and I've noticed that I was unable to find any control that acted like a PivotItem.
     

    Different paradigm for development.  There is no navigation back stack built in, panorama, etc.  The phone is mostly an up and down device (you hold it that way), but the WIN8 is primarily a left to right.  Most of the app scrolling happens left to right.


    So my question is, in how far will the Windows Phone 7 apps be supported in W(P) 8?

    Their not.  WP8 will run old WP7 apps in a backward compat mode.  And maybe WP8 will have a pivot / pano.  But the full Win 8 does not.


    Next to this, there are three versions, Windows Phone 8, Windows 8 (Tablet), Windows 8 (Desktop),, Will all Windows Phone 7 and 8 apps be able to run on the tablet version for Windows 8 or does it require a new app with different width, height, images, etc.
      

    You will need to build two apps.  One will NOT run across both.  Different stores, app caps, etc.


    Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:07 AM
  • I really hope that it will be possible to create UIs with XAML/C++ because I want to finally create Apps without the CLR overhead. I know, you cannot disclose much in this regard right now, but I still wanted to give feeback because for me this would be a deal-breaker (I use XAML/C++/Dx on Windows8).

    EVERY Metro app will be running through WINRT.  So even your C++ apps will still have WINRT under them.  No difference.  All the app compilers will be JIT'd to a native binary for each target platform.  Basically the JIT time is going away by pre-JIT each assembly to something like a native assembly.


    Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:09 AM

  • I've been experimenting in Windows 8 to develop for that platform, and I've noticed that I was unable to find any control that acted like a PivotItem.
     

    Different paradigm for development.  There is no navigation back stack built in, panorama, etc.  The phone is mostly an up and down device (you hold it that way), but the WIN8 is primarily a left to right.  Most of the app scrolling happens left to right.


    So my question is, in how far will the Windows Phone 7 apps be supported in W(P) 8?

    Their not.  WP8 will run old WP7 apps in a backward compat mode.  And maybe WP8 will have a pivot / pano.  But the full Win 8 does not.


    Next to this, there are three versions, Windows Phone 8, Windows 8 (Tablet), Windows 8 (Desktop),, Will all Windows Phone 7 and 8 apps be able to run on the tablet version for Windows 8 or does it require a new app with different width, height, images, etc.
      

    You will need to build two apps.  One will NOT run across both.  Different stores, app caps, etc.
    Thanks for the clarification.

    My primary concern is if I would have to rebuild my Windows Phone 7 apps, to make them available for the Windows 8 Tablets.
    Is that required in the current situation?
    Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:07 AM
  • Read what you quoted. This was already answered. :\
    Thursday, July 12, 2012 10:08 AM
  • I really hope that it will be possible to create UIs with XAML/C++ because I want to finally create Apps without the CLR overhead. I know, you cannot disclose much in this regard right now, but I still wanted to give feeback because for me this would be a deal-breaker (I use XAML/C++/Dx on Windows8).

    EVERY Metro app will be running through WINRT.  So even your C++ apps will still have WINRT under them.  No difference.  All the app compilers will be JIT'd to a native binary for each target platform.  Basically the JIT time is going away by pre-JIT each assembly to something like a native assembly.




    Please, give me a break. There is a big difference.
    JIT is NOT a replacement for native code development. It has never been. Even if you use JIT, it is still managed code which means overhead that you cannot influence.
    - Ever thought about why native iOS apps are more efficient (memory, battery, power, cpu-cycles)?
    - Ever thought about why all the first party apps (phone, contacts, mail, all of them) are C++ Apps in Windows Phone 7?
    - Why the Window Phone 7 team use a completly different UI Framework?
    - Why Skype on Windows Phone is so ressource hungry although it runs fine (even in the background) on a iPhone 3GS?

    I would not care about the managed or native discussion much - however, it tells me alot when the Windows Phone team can't use managed code internally because it is too slow but expects us to use it. I don't want to make "OK" apps, I want to create great apps. The Windows Phone team is limiting us artifically and made a big mistake with WP7 in my opinion. Take any of the big third-party apps (they should have enough ressources to make a good app, right?) and you will notice the gap between the first-party apps. This has not been solved in Mango!

    BTW

    WinRT is ALL native code (Oversimplified, you could say that it is a wrapper for COM). C++ Code on Win8 runs without any VM (like CLR) native on the Hardware! I can access Direct3D/DirectX/C++AMP/MediaFoundation/etc. without ANY WinRT from C++.
    Even XAML on Win8 is ALL native code. Yes, CLR can interop with WinRT via projections but that does not mean a CLR is used for C++ Apps (how stupid would be that).
    Thursday, July 12, 2012 10:49 AM
  • Read what you quoted. This was already answered. :\
    Sorry, read it wrong.. Then the following question: Since it will be a new market, will we be able to use our existing App Hub Developer accounts to publish to the new market?
    Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:02 AM
  • I don't know that that has been revealed, but this isn't the proper forum to look for an answer. You need to ask on a Win 8 forum.
    Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:32 PM
  • So my question is, in how far will the Windows Phone 7 apps be supported in W(P) 8?
    Their not.  WP8 will run old WP7 apps in a backward compat mode.  And maybe WP8 will have a pivot / pano.  But the full Win 8 does not.

    As we've commented before, the team has been working very hard to ensure that there will be both binary and code compatibility between Windows Phone OS 7.1 and 8. Our goal is that all apps that were written for WP 7.5 will 'just work' on WP 8.0, and that upgrading your code will be as easy updating your 7.1 app to target 8.0 as it was when you updated your 7.0 code to target 7.1.

    As it has been commented on here and elsewhere, you will need two different apps to target Windows 8 and to target Windows Phone, but you should be able to see maximum code reuse via native/DirectX and reusing your C# business logic.


    Sr Product Manager; Windows Phone Developer Experience

    Tuesday, August 07, 2012 7:55 PM
  • I believe the current emulator uses a hypervisor, hence you're not able to run it inside a virtual machine. If you're able to run the current one I think you might be okay with the next.

    The current emulator uses Virtual PC/VHD technology for virtualizing. This is one of the reasons why it could 'run', but just wasn't very usable, in a virtual machine.

    Sr Product Manager; Windows Phone Developer Experience

    Tuesday, August 07, 2012 7:58 PM
  • Looks like late summer is now early fall...IF...you have already published an app AND your "application" is accepted. All other developers can wait until the OS is released. Thanks Microsoft for making me feel loved.

    http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_phone/b/wpdev/archive/2012/09/05/windows-phone-8-sdk-preview-opens-for-applications-sept-12.aspx


    • Edited by Ben Rockwell Wednesday, September 05, 2012 6:19 PM
    Wednesday, September 05, 2012 6:17 PM
  • An article on TechRadar sugests that the new developer kit should be coming out later this week.

    Wednesday, September 12, 2012 2:21 AM
  • An article on TechRadar sugests that the new developer kit should be coming out later this week.


    yes. today. but only for currently-published Devs, see the link in the post immediately preceding yours
    Wednesday, September 12, 2012 1:09 PM
  • Here's the annoucement made today: http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_phone/b/wpdev/archive/2012/09/12/windows-phone-8-sdk-preview-program-is-now-open.aspx

    Check out our app - Trekstir Lite Children's Books - with unique and original stories.

    Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:05 PM
  • The new application development technologies will support the new Windows Phone 8 hardware capabilities, such as multi-core chips, new screen resolutions, SD card support and near-field communication (NFC).

    Do I need the new WP8 SDK  in order to submit my game for the new screen resolution?

    I have a game written in XNA, i want to test if it plays/scales corectly in the new resolutions and also submit a new HD version. Sould I submit for the early SDK?  Would I be eligible to get access? 


    tainicom

    Friday, September 14, 2012 10:53 AM
  • The new application development technologies will support the new Windows Phone 8 hardware capabilities, such as multi-core chips, new screen resolutions, SD card support and near-field communication (NFC).

    Do I need the new WP8 SDK  in order to submit my game for the new screen resolution?

    I have a game written in XNA, i want to test if it plays/scales corectly in the new resolutions and also submit a new HD version. Sould I submit for the early SDK?  Would I be eligible to get access? 


    tainicom

    Did you read the announcement linked above and the Connect page that announcement links to?

    All WP7 apps, including XNA games, will run correctly on all Windows Phone 8 devices without any changes.  For devices that have a higher screen resolution, the display will be scaled up to fit the screen, the same as if you used a smaller back buffer for your XNA game.

    Apps/games targeting WP7.5 will not be able to access new features of WP8.  Reports are that there is no native XNA for WP8, so you won't be able to just recompile as a WP8 app/game.  The MonoGame project will be supporting WP8 as soon as possible to make porting XNA games to WP8 easier.

    Friday, September 14, 2012 11:50 AM
  • Dear Steve,

    Obviously you are the one who didn't read my question. 

    The question was about submitting a xap tailored to the new resolutions (with new textures,etc) and also about testing current apps working on 800x480. 

    There are many ways you can get the resolution in XNA.  Probably  there would be a way to query the real resolution while in other places the system would report the standard 800x480 (I am guessing the viewport and prefferedBackBuffer would default to 800x480). Now if you query the wrong data for managing  touch input and sprite placement you are in trouble.

    Anyway, I already submitted for access to the WP8 SDK preview. We'll see.
    Unfortunately I wont be able to comment back.


    tainicom

    Friday, September 14, 2012 3:00 PM
  • Dear All,

    I didnt sign up for WinPhone8 SDK preview program and the window for sign up has been closed already.

    Is there a way I can still sign up for WP8 SDK Preview?

    Thanks All.

    Monday, September 24, 2012 6:29 PM
  • The Windows Phone 8 development tools are scheduled for release later this summer (2012). At that time, a developer forum will become available.

    so by summer you really mean late fall to winter?

    Friday, October 05, 2012 5:05 PM
  • I didnt sign up for WinPhone8 SDK preview program and the window for sign up has been closed already.

    You've answered your own question.

    I believe he was asking for an alternative way into the program.
    Friday, October 05, 2012 10:53 PM
  • Hi slee612,

    This post was created on June 21 and is out of date. Though no official date has yet been posted, I believe that it would be safe to modify this thread to indicate the release date as being "this fall".

    -Mark


    Mark Chamberlain Sr. Escalation Engineer | Microsoft Developer Support | Windows Phone 7

    Monday, October 08, 2012 10:08 PM
  • Or not. Why is Microsoft unwilling to keep its developer community up to date?

    Dana

    Monday, October 22, 2012 4:35 PM
  • Hi Dana,

    For sure there will be an information update at the next Microsoft Build Conference, starting Oct 30. Information will be publicly available on-line at approximately the same time.

    Hope this helps,
    Mark


    Mark Chamberlain Sr. Escalation Engineer | Microsoft Developer Support | Windows Phone 7

    Monday, October 22, 2012 5:13 PM
  • I think it's a bit strange that MS has announced WP8 today, and the first Phones are going to be available this week but no SDK.

    They should have released it at the very least today so people can start updating their apps to have some of the new features in it.

    I'm a bit disappointed here as I had hoped to release my game for WP8 with some of the new features.

    They should have released the tools right away after the announcement.
    Monday, October 29, 2012 7:13 PM
  • @Raven Liquid - If you already had WP7 apps in the Marketplace, then you had an opportunity to sign up for early access to the WP8 SDK so that you could update your apps. Did you not sign up?
    Monday, October 29, 2012 8:10 PM
  • @Raven Liquid - If you already had WP7 apps in the Marketplace, then you had an opportunity to sign up for early access to the WP8 SDK so that you could update your apps. Did you not sign up?

    Correction. If you had apps you had the opportunity to sign up for the CHANCE at early access. Not all were "approved" for it. In fact, you were only approved if you had a top-tier app/game in the marketplace at the time, from what I have seen/understood. How do I know? I was denied. I have 5 apps in the marketplace.

    Twitter: @bc3tech

    Monday, October 29, 2012 8:19 PM
  • @Raven Liquid - If you already had WP7 apps in the Marketplace, then you had an opportunity to sign up for early access to the WP8 SDK so that you could update your apps. Did you not sign up?


    Correction. If you had apps you had the opportunity to sign up for the CHANCE at early access. Not all were "approved" for it. In fact, you were only approved if you had a top-tier app/game in the marketplace at the time, from what I have seen/understood. How do I know? I was denied. I have 5 apps in the marketplace.

    Twitter: @bc3tech


    Granted, but I ass-u-med, based on the content of Raven's post that such was not the case for him/her.

    Monday, October 29, 2012 8:23 PM
  • No, I was aiming for a December release, and I was hoping to use some of the new lens features. And you indeed needed to have something in the store to sign up for consideration. I based my planning around the promised summer release...
    Monday, October 29, 2012 9:06 PM
  • So C++ developers do not have access to program directly to XAML in a native way, they have to go through managed interop?  Why?  Why didn't you just have two different types of apps instead of forcing the old Windows Phone 7 style managed apps on everyone (except for C++ DirectX of course).  Programming to native is one of the key benefits of Windows 8, why not allow it on Windows Phone 8?  You said in your video today it for back-compat reasons.  What does that mean, just make a separate C++ native XAML app type, like the new C++ DirectX native app type!

    Wednesday, October 31, 2012 2:42 AM
  • What about WinRT components?  Specifically, I create WinRT components using C++/CX.  Will they work on Windows Phone 8?  Or, will the code need to be recompiled specifically for phone?
    Wednesday, October 31, 2012 2:08 PM
  • I can't speak regarding the rationale behind the architectural model(s) chosen, but at least for the Direct3D developers there are three models to chose from to facilitate mixed language models.  Pure native DirectX, mixed DirectX in the background grid of the XAML app, and mixed DirectX implemented as a distinct UI control within a XAML app.

    Also there was a significant learning investment on the part of external developers who developed and published the 150K WP7.x apps to Marketplace; the WP8 model was designed to easily upgrade such 7.x apps to 8.0.

    -Mark


    Mark Chamberlain Sr. Escalation Engineer | Microsoft Developer Support | Windows Phone 7

    Wednesday, October 31, 2012 5:01 PM
  • Is there anyway to get Windows 8 Pro for free if you are registered windows phone developer and you have Microsoft dream spark membership too??


    See your other post here.

    Wednesday, October 31, 2012 5:55 PM
  • I build with Android API, is it much different to get into Windows development?


    Friday, November 16, 2012 7:10 PM
  • That is a fairly open question. The WP7 SDK let you write XAML+C# code or XNA. The WP8 SDK does the same, but introduced new capabilities, native Direct3D and C++ support which may help you to import some library code.

    -Mark


    Mark Chamberlain Sr. Escalation Engineer | Microsoft Developer Support | Windows Phone 7


    Friday, November 16, 2012 7:39 PM
  • Hi,
    Yes you can target an XNA application for 8.0 phones only, or you can specify 7.1.  If you choose 7.1 the app will work in 7.1 or 8.0 phones for backwards compatibility.
    The final specs for the tools are not yet official, so I cannot provide feature details, such as whether there are additional APIs or features when an XNA 8.0 build style is chosen.

    -Mark

    This seems to have not happened (I wish it had).  From what I have read you cannot target WP8 using XNA.

    I would like to use XNA, but it seems to be a "Dead" tech...  Don't want to waste my time learning a tech that is on its way out....

    • Edited by Vaccanoll Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:40 PM
    Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:39 PM