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Windows Phone 7 Support?

    Question

  • Hello,

    This might seem a little dumb, so excuse me if it's obvious, but does Ria Services work in Windows Phone 7?  I know that Windows Phone 7 Mango supports "Silverlight 4" ... but I'm not sure if that extends out to RIA Services as well.  Any clarification would be incredibly helpful!

    Thank you,

    Michael

    Saturday, December 10, 2011 8:34 AM

All replies

  • RIA services can be used as normal WCF SOAP services for Windows Phone 7 Mango.But RIA services creates a issue since Silverlight for WCF RIA services does not support Authentication headers.

    But it's possible as http://blogs.infosupport.com/using-authenticated-ria-services-on-your-wp7-phone/ 

    Code Samples & details : http://dotnet-redzone.blogspot.com/2010/11/windows-phone-7-using-authenticated-ria.html 

    http://www.silverlightshow.net/news/Leveraging-Background-Services-and-Agents-in-Windows-Phone-7-Mango.aspx 

    Thanks,

    Anindita

    http://anindita9.wordpress.com

    Sunday, December 11, 2011 1:50 AM
  • Wow... still no targeted support for Windows Phone 7?  Not even a beta version?  Or alpha?  Or preview? 

    After over a year?

    Wow.  OK.

     I guess I can always decompile System.ServiceModel.DomainServices.Client.Web and make a System.ServiceModel.DomainServices.Client.Phone.

     And I bet it won't take me a year, either... :P

    Sunday, December 11, 2011 8:00 AM
  • This might seem a little dumb, so excuse me if it's obvious, but does Ria Services work in Windows Phone 7?  I know that Windows Phone 7 Mango supports "Silverlight 4" ... but I'm not sure if that extends out to RIA Services as well.  Any clarification would be incredibly helpful!

    While Mango supports more of Silverlight 4, it didn't change the base differences between the phone version of Silverlight and the desktop version of Silverlight. Those differences, which includes no support for custom LINQ providers, make it impossible to port the Silverlight RIA Services client over to the phone.

    Sunday, December 11, 2011 3:10 PM
  • Wouldn't Ria Services be kind of a heavy framework for the phone? 

    AND, I SUSPECT they are going to replace the OS with Wndows 8 and drop Silverlight on the phone.  So why do more stuff to make SL work there...   Just a guess.

    Sunday, December 11, 2011 3:19 PM
  • replace the OS with Wndows 8 and drop Silverlight on the phone

    That's exactly what I am hoping for as well, but that is a mighty long wait.

    After developing an application with the amazingness of RIA Services, I can't imagine ever going back to proxy-based service development.  The thought of it is just depressing.

    Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:08 PM
  • Those differences, which includes no support for custom LINQ providers, make it impossible to port the Silverlight RIA Services client over to the phone.

    Thanks for the clarification, Colin. That is really a bummer.

    Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:11 PM
  • So... in light of this, I will bide my time by creating a faux Windows Phone / Windows Runtime application hosted in a Silverlight 5 application.  The idea being to switch over to Windows Runtime when a beta is available.

    But I do want to make sure... RIA Services intends on supporting Windows Runtime, correct? :)

    Saturday, January 07, 2012 2:43 PM
  • I wouldn't count on that AT ALL.  Just look how far MS shifted on the whole Silverlight as a cross platform technology.

    Sunday, January 08, 2012 6:12 AM
  • Hm.  They are consolidating WPF and Silverlight under one roof with Windows Runtime...

    Sunday, January 08, 2012 9:01 AM
  • No, WPF was Windows only.  Silverlight was CROSS PLATFORM. WinRT is Windows ONLY.  So Silverlight isn't being "consolidated" into WinRT.  Silverlight is not present in WinRT because WinRT is not cross platform.

    I view it as both WPF and Silverlight are dropped and there is a new paradigm that borrows small pieces of WPF and Silverlight and ONLY works on Windows.

    Not nice for developers.

    Sunday, January 08, 2012 12:05 PM
  • Fair enough.  More like transformed than consolidated (but really, a little of both).

    Cross-platform is a pipedream, really.  But do consider:

    Windows7 Installs: 450M

    iOS/Droid devices: ~40M (based on my research... feel free to correct me.)

    Extrapolating that out to Windows8, I'd much rather put in the effort to develop 1 application for a 450M+ marketplace than spend a bunch of extra time hitting the other ~10%.

    This is getting off-topic though.  I just want to make sure that RIA Services will be available for that massive marketplace. :)

    Sunday, January 08, 2012 12:19 PM
  • Pipedream?  Really?  You remind me of the commercial where Jimmy Fallon asks everyone to send him the money they don't want.  Who doesn't want more money?

    No, if we have a product and a customer comes to us and says, sorry, we don't run Win8 and we want to run your app on our platform, we try to find a way to make that happen so we can get that money.

    Silverlight as a cross platform environment was SUPPOSED to deliver on that.  It was only a partially fulfilled promise.  We got Windows and Mac.  But what about Android, etc.

    And what am I supposed to do if the customer wants it on the iPhone and the iPad?  Well, if you have a WinRT app, you can give that money to someone else because you don't have a cross platform app.

    So you can go write an HTML5 app.  And that will run in more places.  But a WinRt HTML5 app WON'T.  It will only run on WinRT.

    And if you code your app to run on HTML5 well, then why would you recode a limited app in WinRT?

    Microsoft will want you to use WinRT because you will HAVE to pay THEM money and they don't have to do anything to get that money except sell you on the WinRT platform.

    Sunday, January 08, 2012 12:38 PM
  • Microsoft will want you to use WinRT because you will HAVE to pay THEM money and they don't have to do anything to get that money except sell you on the WinRT platform.

    (Again, getting a little off-topic, buttttt....)

    That's actually fine by me, if Microsoft's platform reaches 90% of the total available marketplace.

    To me, reaching for the other 10%, when you consider the total resource and maintenance costs (read: hassle) involved with upkeeping another codebase (or two), it just isn't worth it.  We faced the same dilemma when making websites for IE vs. Netscape.  Sure, you can spend 90% of your time hacking your code to cater to the "other" (and, unfortunately, LOUDER and WHINIER) 10%, but in the end it just makes more sense to say, screw it, and just cater to the 90%.

    You are right in that cross platform is not a pipedream.  It's "affordable" cross-platform development that is a pipedream; sure, cross-platform can be done, but it sure is costly.

    I'm tired of dealing with the 10%.  I am fully content with developing one application if that one application is available to over 450M clients.  But that's just me. :)

    Sunday, January 08, 2012 6:35 PM
  • hmmm...  Let's see.  WPF is xaml for the desktop and Silverlight is WPF/E which is WPF EVERYWHERE.  So Silverlight is the cross platform piece.

    And what part of cross platform is in WinRT?

    They may be taking some pieces/parts from WPF and Silverlight xaml, but I would say the essential part of Silverlight is definitely NOT part of WinRT.

    Monday, January 09, 2012 9:08 AM
  • And what part of cross platform is in WinRT?

    They may be taking some pieces/parts from WPF and Silverlight xaml, but I would say the essential part of Silverlight is definitely NOT part of WinRT.

    This is an impossible to win argument on both sides. It is like arguing about whether the tallest mountain on Earth is Everest or Mauna Kea. Yes, WinRT is not cross-platform and is not a plug-in. The Windows Phone 7 version of Silverlight is also not cross-platform and is not a plug-in. But, is that an argument to say that Silverlight doesn't need to be a plug-in and cross platform to be Silverlight? Or, is that just an argument that the phone API wasn't named correctly and it should have been named WinPhoneRT?

    My general feeling is that WinRT is much closer to Silverlight then it is to WPF. The single file deployment method, the focus on asynchronous programming, the sandbox, and the way they are installed remind me strongly of Silverlight. That is why I tell people who think they will eventually move to WinRT that writing a Silverlight application now with a plan to port to WinRT later is probably a better plan then trying to port a WPF application. That doesn't mean I am going to argue that WinRT is Silverlight, it just means I don't see much point in arguing that WinRT isn't Silverlight.

    Back to the original question: will RIA Services support WinRT? It will definitely support HTML/JavaScript WinRT applications. That has already been demoed at Build. As for XAML WinRT, XAML WinRT is a product of the Windows division of Microsoft. WCF is a product of the Windows Azure division of Microsoft. It would be a safe bet that nobody over in the Windows division is losing any sleep trying to figure out how to make sure that XAML WinRT works well with RIA Services and there is nothing that the WCF team can do about creating a XAML WinRT client for RIA Services until they are given a stable version of XAML WinRT.

    Monday, January 09, 2012 11:19 AM
  • I hear ya.

    I would however say, yes, Silverlight is cross platform for the Windows Phone 7.  That is to say, I can write in Silverlight to create Browser Apps, Desktop Apps, and Windows Phone 7 apps.  The same can not be said for WPF, for instance.  And WPF is not cross platform.

    But I won't argue the point any more.  I was trying to point out that if one thinks writing for WinRT is like Silverlight and will run on other platforms than Windows, one is mistaken.  And Silverlight's main feature (versus WPF) was being cross platform.

    And, IMHO, "Silverlight" in WinRT is a HUGE loss.

    Monday, January 09, 2012 11:31 AM
  • It would be a safe bet that nobody over in the Windows division is losing any sleep trying to figure out how to make sure that XAML WinRT works well with RIA Services and there is nothing that that WCF team can do about creating a XAML WinRT client for RIA Services until they are given a stable version of XAML WinRT.

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

    What a twisted steel pole of sh!t.

    (But thanks for answering :P ).

    The really really frustrating thing about all of this is that the HTML/JS solution isn't really what everyone thinks it is.  It's not your typical HTML/JS "website" that is hosted on a server somewhere, but an application that is hosted in the Windows Marketplace -- it's still proprietary Microsoft HTML.  It just completely baffles me why this is such a focus when XAML is a far superior (and mature) presentation technology.

    Monday, January 09, 2012 11:34 AM
  • ...on the other hand, I guess I should point out that it is perfectly possible that XAML WinRT ends up being 100% compatible with the original Silverlight client's code and they end up just needing to recompile the original DLLs against WinRT. My point is simply that any answer the WCF team could give us right now would be hope and speculation at this point. People tend to get angry when hope and speculation from Microsoft turns out to be incorrect so the the WCF team is going to say nothing for now and continue doing what they have been doing, and what they have been doing is some pretty incredible stuff.

    Monday, January 09, 2012 12:02 PM
  • Gee, thanks for the roller coaster, Colin. ;)

    That suffices for me.  I will be developing in Silverlight5 and get things as ready as possible for the switch over to Windows Runtime, while hoping for the best.

    In Microsoft We Trust.

    Monday, January 09, 2012 12:05 PM
  • FWIW, I just put together a pre-Windows Runtime version of an application framework written in Silverlight 5.  Getting ready for the different form factors. :)

    You can check it out here: http://framework.dragonspark.us/

    I'm also curious now about the status of RIA Services now that VS11 Beta has been released...

    Saturday, March 03, 2012 2:59 PM
  • There was a new version of RIA Services released as part of VS 2011.

    http://hashtagfail.com/post/18631640309/ria-sp2-vs11-beta

    Monday, March 05, 2012 10:30 AM
  • <3

    Monday, March 05, 2012 10:33 AM
  • Also, I should note that RIA/JS was renamed Upshot.js and was released in the ASP.NET MVC 4 Beta as part of ASP.NET Single Page Application where the DomainService has been reborn under WebUI as the DataController.

    Monday, March 05, 2012 2:17 PM
  • Also, I should note that RIA/JS was renamed Upshot.js and was released in the ASP.NET MVC 4 Beta as part of ASP.NET Single Page Application where the DomainService has been reborn under WebUI as the DataController.

    You just couldn't help yourself, could you. ;P

    Monday, March 05, 2012 2:51 PM