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Microsoft prefers Flash over Silverlight in new IE10 Browser

Answers

  • Microsoft is betting the farm on a me-too operating system modeled after Apple.  (they did a good job) For probably every dollar it makes, they can show why their company should be worth another hundred dollars or more in market cap.  In fact, it could be as high as 200 dollars. 

    You could easily create a Silverlight app that looked and felt like a Windows 8 app, running on Windows 8 IE, but without the need to pay them their 20%.  It was therefore a no-brainer to announce the end of Silverlight, and to not support it as soon as possible. 

    Silverlight is a direct competitor (since MS makes not a dollar on it) with Windows 8 Metro.  They would take Silverlight out and shoot it, if it were possible, in order to try to give Metro the best chance possible. 

    Friday, June 01, 2012 6:05 PM
  • THe other thing is that if they allowed Silverlight to run on Metros IE, you could just totally bypass their system and yet create an app with the look and feel of Metro.  No need for their store anymore, and if it caught on, the store could be killed by the thousands of metro like apps, done in SL, and on the web, and we would all be back to google to pay for people to click to our site.  (Actually, due to the advanced state of SL compared to Metro, your app would probably be better in some ways.  And no need to pay MS a penny, but yet it would run on all the touchpads etc. ) 

    It is a risk that would destroy their entire business model for Metro.  You would do the same in their shoes.  Otherwise, image giving a power point slide, and someone asks you what you would do if rogue SL apps took over in popularity, and you said, "Oh, we are just going to cross our fingers and hope that doesnt happen."   Why do that when they can take out their biggest threat with a few marketing statements about how they will enable Flash.  I bet there are some caveats in there as to just whose flash site gets enabled, due to the same risk.  They want to make sure they dont have competition on their own platform, and it totally makes sense.  WHy would you pay Microsoft a percentage, when you can create the same app, with the same look and feel, and no need to pay MS anything at all?  They had to kill SL>

    And think of the profits.  In not so many years Metro and its successors will be on more than 80% of the desktops and no one will be able to compete with them,using SL because they killed it way back here.  A virtual monopoly they will have at that time, all because they killed SL back here in the past.  And it will be a good time to be a Metro developer for many years to come.  (How is apple goiing to compete when the phone is no longer seen as a stand alone appliance, but just another app?  You will download your phone then, like you do a video player now, and Apple may sell their phone app for as much as 25 bucks.  But it will be a one time deal.  MS is going to OWN it!  ANd it will be a great time to be a Metro developer, for years to come.)

    In the years to come MS will likely be fined a few billion dollars by Europe and slapped on the wrist by the USA, for excluding the other browsers from Metro.  But if they dont exclude the other browsers, they would have no way to exclude silverilght.  So, they make a few hundred billon and get fined one or two billion.  Still they will do well.

    What they didnt consider is that by killing Silverlight, they would lose thousands of potential Metro developers, and have hardly any apps in their store by comparison of what would have been, had the SL developers not been so disheartened by having their technology killed for no good reason.

    Sunday, June 03, 2012 11:56 AM

All replies

  • If true

    Microsoft, Shame on you.

    Sunday, May 27, 2012 11:26 AM
  • really hope they announce that metro IE will support silverlight and flash, but so far only flash seems to have got their love.

    Guess it is only wait and see, and then maybe rage when announce a flash only ie :(

    Meybe we should post some connect bug reports for IE if that is the case

    Tuesday, May 29, 2012 10:21 AM
  • I think SL is better used for enterprise intranet development, but not for public web.

    Support for "legacy but pupolar websites" (as mentioned in article) sounds reasonable, i.e. "why support SL for videos if it is rarely used for it".

    MS better do not stop in SL development in general, that is desirable.

    Tuesday, May 29, 2012 11:21 PM
  • If the rumor is true it's going to make a lot of web developers angry.  A Microsoft MVP might respond by telling you a good web developer is willing to change and adapt to keep up with technology.  I would respond to the MVP by saying it's easier for a web  developer to adapt to changing technology by staying away from Microsoft and sticking with long-term technologies like, Java, Adobe, PHP and the open source community that are less likely to go extinct tomorrow because they follow standards.  First the Java VM and now Silverlight and Flash.

    Don't get angry yet.  Let's let the Silverlight team read the blogs to get our input that they most likely intended to get by leaking the rumor before making a decision. Who knows, if they are collaborating with Adobe maybe they can create a Flash.NET API that ports .NET code to the Flash plug-in. You can get angry when Microsoft makes an official announcement that there won't be any more Silverlight version past 5.

    http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/will-there-be-a-silverlight-6-and-does-it-matter/11180

    Wednesday, May 30, 2012 2:43 PM
  • If true

    Microsoft, Shame on you.

     

    It's true: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2012/05/31/windows-release-preview-the-sixth-ie10-platform-preview.aspx?CommentPosted=true#commentmessage IE 10 metro has flash support but not silverlight support :(

    Go to the announcement (using the link above) and tell them what you think!

     

    Btw: also make a post here so this post appear at the top of the forum threads!

     

    Friday, June 01, 2012 5:49 AM
  • solenovex

    If true

    Microsoft, Shame on you.

     

    It's true: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2012/05/31/windows-release-preview-the-sixth-ie10-platform-preview.aspx?CommentPosted=true#commentmessage IE 10 metro has flash support but not silverlight support :(

    Go to the announcement (using the link above) and tell them what you think!

     Btw: also make a post here so this post appear at the top of the forum threads!

     

    let's make posts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Friday, June 01, 2012 6:20 AM
  • Is there even a Silverlight team left anymore?  It seems like everyone on the team either left the team or left the company.

     

    This is pretty much the last straw for me.  After this announcement, I don't see why anyone would ever want to develop anything on Microsoft technologies ever again.  I've been a Microsoft developer for 17 years and I've had it.

    Friday, June 01, 2012 10:32 AM
  • Is there even a Silverlight team left anymore?  It seems like everyone on the team either left the team or left the company.

     

    This is pretty much the last straw for me.  After this announcement, I don't see why anyone would ever want to develop anything on Microsoft technologies ever again.  I've been a Microsoft developer for 17 years and I've had it.

    I've been a microsoft developer for only 6,7 months....

    Because Silverlight, I completely gave up java and became a microsoft developer.

    I successfully persuaded my department use .net especially silverlight.

    But now my teammates always ask my that why choosing a abandoned technology?

    I will still develop silverlight, at the same time I try to learn something from google or Qt.

    Friday, June 01, 2012 12:31 PM
  • Microsoft is betting the farm on a me-too operating system modeled after Apple.  (they did a good job) For probably every dollar it makes, they can show why their company should be worth another hundred dollars or more in market cap.  In fact, it could be as high as 200 dollars. 

    You could easily create a Silverlight app that looked and felt like a Windows 8 app, running on Windows 8 IE, but without the need to pay them their 20%.  It was therefore a no-brainer to announce the end of Silverlight, and to not support it as soon as possible. 

    Silverlight is a direct competitor (since MS makes not a dollar on it) with Windows 8 Metro.  They would take Silverlight out and shoot it, if it were possible, in order to try to give Metro the best chance possible. 

    Friday, June 01, 2012 6:05 PM
  • I think it is only the "Metro" interface that will not have Silverlight support.  The Desktop inteface will still support Silverlight.

    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh846773.aspx

    Are browser plugins, such as Silverlight, supported in Internet Explorer 10?

    Internet Explorer provides an add-on–free experience, so browser plugins don't load and any dependent content isn't displayed. However, Internet Explorer for the desktop does support browser plugins, including ActiveX controls such as Adobe Flash and Microsoft Silverlight. For more information, see Browsing Without Plug-ins on IEBlog.

    Friday, June 01, 2012 7:23 PM
  • Jose,

    Well, either way, I do think Metro is much cooler than Silverlight, so I wont be looking back anyway.  But nice to know it will still work on IE.

    Daniel

     

    Friday, June 01, 2012 7:44 PM
  • Jose,

    I can understand another reason for the add on free experience besides competition.  When I visited a friend that uses their computer a lot, but doesnt know much about them (mostly just email, browsing etc) they had more than half of their IE screen covered with toolbars.  When I removed them, they were SO thankful, as it was literally more than half their screen taken up with toolbars.

    Daniel

    Friday, June 01, 2012 7:48 PM
  • Ok I can see that Silverlight is a direct competitor to the Metro Apps Store.

     

    Still pretty anoying that they feel that they can support Adobe Flash (Silverlight direct competitor) rather than their own Microsoft collegues.  Just shows how the in fughting factions within Microsoft are destroying the great technologies.   XNA is also not supported on Metro !

    Sunday, June 03, 2012 7:56 AM
  •  Yes they are.  It is amazing that so many peoples lives are being touched in such profound ways by what is essentially the pettiness of a few individuals taking advantage of their position to act out their pettiness.  But whatcha gonna do short of moving to Java?

    Sunday, June 03, 2012 9:06 AM
  • @talldaniel

    You wrote " I do think Metro is much cooler than Silverlight, so I wont be looking back anyway"

    What is cooler in Metro. The Jail? The focus on one Platform ?

    The Apis are still in Alpha Stage. A lot of good functions not there. No Deep Zoom. No XNA. No working RichtextBox.

    No Shaders. And there is a lot of more.

    Metro  is the wrong way. Point.

    Sunday, June 03, 2012 9:12 AM
  • It depends.  If you are purely a hobbiest, then it probably sucks.  But from an income point of view, Metro really is going to be on several hundred million desktops a year from now.  You can probably also count on Microsoft making sure that there are touchpads that are available for 100 to 200 dollars.  Though they wont be as prolific immediately, they will soon after. 

    The "promise" is that it wont matter how well connected you are, or how big your corproation is, that Microsoft will treat everyone the same.  That you could, conceivably by yourself create a killer app, that would have immediate world wide distribution to hundreds of millions of people.  In retail, it is called shelf space. 

    From that point of view, Metro is empowering people.  We wont have to pay google for each click to send a potential customer to our website, we may not even have to pay for advertising etc, because the promise is that we will all be treated according to how our app does.  Period.

    In five years there wont be such a thing as a phone.  Any one of these millions of touchpads will have internet connections, and you will use any of them as a phone app.  Years ago there used to be "gateways" to the web, and that was AOL and conpuserve and everyone thought you needed a gateway.  Now, everyone thinks you need a phone.  But you wont.  Any metro enabled touch pad with a wireless connection will work.  Then it is google voice, etc.

    This is a game changer.  The only thing is, that though everyone says they are too late, they are really too early, as they are trying to go in with the 'post phone" era product, and most people have never even considered that they dont actually need a dedicated appliance for their phone.

    If you are a hobbiest, then yeah, silverlight being lost sucks,  but if you are doing this for a living, then you have the chance to be there for day one of the biggest technologies paradigm changes in years.

     

    Sunday, June 03, 2012 11:25 AM
  • In my company, If I don't start to learn html5+js+css+whatever server side language now and move our silverlight LOB to html, I will get fired in serveral months.

    Sunday, June 03, 2012 11:32 AM
  • Solenovex,

    Learn Metro at their expense, and then leave when it comes out.  Early Metro programmers will be the most sought after programmers in the history of software development, for at least a year. 

    Consider, a system that is on 200 million desktops and growing, and 100 million plus touchpads and exponentiating, and yet the interest in Metro development is so slim right now that there is only about one message an hour on the most popular Metro thread.  If you know not just how to program in Metro, but to make a Metro style App, and can design as well, I think 200 bucks an hour would be cheap for your talents. 

    It is slim because it is such a change and requires yet another huge effort to come up to speed.  Most people can only stay on the software learning curve for about fifteen years, maybe twenty, and then they either go into management, or just fade out.  It is a lot to do.  But one more round is worth it.   (There are those that think it is about age, but it isnt.  It is about the learning curve getting to be too much. ) 

    As for your bosses, let them pay 200 an hour for your replacement when you move on, after learning Metro on their dime, cause they sound like they are not nice people.

    Sunday, June 03, 2012 11:43 AM
  • THe other thing is that if they allowed Silverlight to run on Metros IE, you could just totally bypass their system and yet create an app with the look and feel of Metro.  No need for their store anymore, and if it caught on, the store could be killed by the thousands of metro like apps, done in SL, and on the web, and we would all be back to google to pay for people to click to our site.  (Actually, due to the advanced state of SL compared to Metro, your app would probably be better in some ways.  And no need to pay MS a penny, but yet it would run on all the touchpads etc. ) 

    It is a risk that would destroy their entire business model for Metro.  You would do the same in their shoes.  Otherwise, image giving a power point slide, and someone asks you what you would do if rogue SL apps took over in popularity, and you said, "Oh, we are just going to cross our fingers and hope that doesnt happen."   Why do that when they can take out their biggest threat with a few marketing statements about how they will enable Flash.  I bet there are some caveats in there as to just whose flash site gets enabled, due to the same risk.  They want to make sure they dont have competition on their own platform, and it totally makes sense.  WHy would you pay Microsoft a percentage, when you can create the same app, with the same look and feel, and no need to pay MS anything at all?  They had to kill SL>

    And think of the profits.  In not so many years Metro and its successors will be on more than 80% of the desktops and no one will be able to compete with them,using SL because they killed it way back here.  A virtual monopoly they will have at that time, all because they killed SL back here in the past.  And it will be a good time to be a Metro developer for many years to come.  (How is apple goiing to compete when the phone is no longer seen as a stand alone appliance, but just another app?  You will download your phone then, like you do a video player now, and Apple may sell their phone app for as much as 25 bucks.  But it will be a one time deal.  MS is going to OWN it!  ANd it will be a great time to be a Metro developer, for years to come.)

    In the years to come MS will likely be fined a few billion dollars by Europe and slapped on the wrist by the USA, for excluding the other browsers from Metro.  But if they dont exclude the other browsers, they would have no way to exclude silverilght.  So, they make a few hundred billon and get fined one or two billion.  Still they will do well.

    What they didnt consider is that by killing Silverlight, they would lose thousands of potential Metro developers, and have hardly any apps in their store by comparison of what would have been, had the SL developers not been so disheartened by having their technology killed for no good reason.

    Sunday, June 03, 2012 11:56 AM
  • All that presumes that Metro is going to be a success.  I am not sure I buy all this 'will be on 100s of Millions of desktops'.  In corporate most will stay with Windows 7 for the next ten years, and the consumer simply does not like Metro (witness the poor sales of WP7 Phones) or the 'unfasionable' Microsoft  

    Silverlight and XNA are still superior technologies.  Meanwhile Microsoft is promoting HTML5, as the basis for both Metro and Web Apps.  So any old HTML5 web site can also bypass Microsoft just as easily as Silverlight or Flash.  So Google Search will win with HTML5.

    Sunday, June 03, 2012 2:05 PM
  • Well, I cant know that for sure, but the way the stock market works is if they have huge market penetration but lose money, then their market cap could increase a hundred billion or more, for losing money.

    This makes it to their advantage to only pretend to ask money for Metro to hold on to the feeling of value in the consumers, while at the same time, giving it away as much as possible. 

    I think they have a great than ninety percent chance of essentially wiping out Apple, because the phone as a device is almost dead, and Apple has no path forward from there, that I know of.  MIS should own it all IMO.  And being a Metro programmer and DESIGNER will pay 200 an hour for the first year of release, IMO.

    Sunday, June 03, 2012 3:21 PM
  • The Metro markt is nearly Zero.

    This will change not in next 2 years. The biggest Problem is that you can not do al lot in the Metro jail.

    There are a lot of statistics which shows that the Programming of Apps will not bring the Moeney back you invest in it.

    Only 5 % or App Programers make rel money.

    No one will use Metro in Business. At the moment. 

    Sunday, June 03, 2012 4:01 PM
  • What if you had your desktop and your small tablet connected to the web through a data only provider like Clear.  Your 40 or 50 dollar a month connection is now your sat radio, your phone, you home internet, and even your movies if you limit yourself to netflix, Amazon, etc.  You can connect up to nine devices to one clear modem and take a usb one with ou on the road. 

    The phone is dead.  That is what Metro is doing.  It is a phone killer app.  That is why it will be so popular.  Right now, for all those things that I will be able to get with Metro and Clear for probably sixty bucks total would cost me about 200 otherwise.   It is therefore a disruptive product and will "kick ass" IMO.

    Not only that, but with clear, I get unlimited data, and with a "phone" they act like it is a big deal to get 2 gigs a month> I use more than that in one day on my clear account.  Oh, and for the phone, there is the text message charges, the overage charges, the early termination penalties, etc.  Oh, and dont forget the two year contract at more than it costs for EVERYTHING when you use Metro.

     

    Sunday, June 03, 2012 8:37 PM
  • I somewhat agree with what you're saying, but isn't Windows 8 eventually going to spread out at the enterprise level and then what? We have spent a small fortune developing an business app and now that we're finally releasing it to companies, we're in being told it won't work with the latest version of windows, well at least not within IE10!!

    I find it absoultely scandalous from Microsoft, (or Apple for that matter) that they release a product i.e. Silverlight, which offered great strive in many areas of web development, especially in term of web browser compatibility, get companies to invest time & resources, therefore money, a lot of money, are now forcing you to re-consider and re-invest more money... Not every company out there are in the same financial position as Microsoft/Apple/etc...  are.

    This is just unacceptable from Microsoft! Don't get me wrong, I want to eventually move our app to HMTL5, but once it's more mature and once we decide we can afford it, not when Microsoft or the likes decide it's time to do it!! So p....d off right now!!!

    Tuesday, June 05, 2012 5:05 PM
  • Tfierens,

    Yeah, if they support Flash and not Silverlight, then Microsoft really is breaking the promise of supporting Silverlight until 2023.  Obviously, they dropped it about a year after announcing it.

     

     

     

    Wednesday, June 06, 2012 1:51 AM
  • It also appears that the development environment for Silverlight is getting tough to maintain for both myself and others I know.  While I wasnt even using it, my entire silverlight environment broke and I spent hours trying to fix it.  For a while it worked again, but only if I upgraded to 5.0 and expression blend preview.

    If I would have been working on an extremely complex problem in 4.0 I dont know if I would have been able to recover it.  It seemed to have something to do with somehow the 5.0 SL control being installed on this computer.  I wonder how hard it will be to setup the development environment in another two years for SL?

    Wednesday, June 06, 2012 10:41 AM
  •  

    I am SL Developer, I believe SL 5 will be upgraded to SL 6.  Here are few reasons

    1) Windows Phone 7.5 has very long support cycle (wp7 apps will be compatible with wp8 )

    2) Visual Studio 2010 Lightswitch has long support cycle till (10-Jan-2017 - Mainstream & 11-Jan-2022 - Extended ) & will get update in VS 2012 Release.

    3) Silverlight 5 on both windows & os x desktop itself as support cycle till 12-Oct-2021 !!

    Here are some references for the same: 

    1) http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifean45

    Quote: "Silverlight 5 – Microsoft will provide assisted and unassisted no charge support for customers using versions of Silverlight 5. Paid support options are available to customers requiring support with issues beyond install and upgrade issues. Microsoft will continue to ship updates to the Silverlight 5 runtime or Silverlight 5 SDK, including updates for security vulnerabilities as determined by the MSRC.Developers using the Silverlight 5 development tools and developing applications for Silverlight 5 can use paid assisted-support options to receive development support.

    Silverlight 5 will support the browser versions listed on this page through 10/12/2021, or though the support lifecycle of the underlying browsers, whichever is shorter. As browsers evolve, the support page will be updated to reflect levels of compatibility with newer browser versions."

     

    2) http://metrosauce.com/microsoft-confirms-silverlight-6-in-a-windows-8-binary/

    Silverlight 6 support

     Yesterday Windows 8 code was revealed to have “IsAppEarlierThanWindowsPhone8” code and today “TargetsAtLeast_ Silverlight _v6”. Of course, Silverlight v6 doesn’t exist and its place in Windows 8 is unknown. It’s not even embedded in the browser like Flash (and you’re forced to the desktop IE and installing the plugin).

    So enjoy coding in SL XAML for both Windows 8 & Mac OS X.

     

    Friday, July 27, 2012 10:22 PM
  • Wonder how much Flash support they added in IE10 Metro. If one can access native resources (with trust dialog), maybe we could host Silverlight plugin inside Flash!
    Wednesday, July 03, 2013 9:42 AM