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When will Microsoft announce this as the final version?

All replies

  • Is this a release or a Friday news dump? Are they trying to not attract attention?
    Friday, December 09, 2011 5:19 PM
  • Oh wow, I hadn't thought about it like that. I hate to be cynical, but thinking about it, it's likely your observation is spot on. Sheesh.

    Friday, December 09, 2011 5:37 PM
  • Officially SL5 will be supported till 10/12/2021. http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifean45

    Friday, December 09, 2011 6:01 PM
  • Just because it's officially supported for the next 10 years doesn't mean squat if it's a dead end skill set for the DEVELOPERS.

    VB6 is supported until June 2013- how many people think it's still a marketable skill today?

     

    Friday, December 09, 2011 6:16 PM
  • Tim Heuer hasn't posted anything about the release on his blog. The Silverlight Blog is just a few very short paragraphs. Is Microsoft talking about this release anywhere?
    Friday, December 09, 2011 6:38 PM
  • Bad news for Silverlight development communnity. It's a shame, but it seems SLV best days are part of the past. Rumors pointing that this is the last SLV major release are really hard. It seems Microsoft has reduced drasticallay the Silverlight team and the worst, no word fromMicrosoft about an hipotethical SLV 6 version.

    The question now, is what to do? Must we shift to HTML5 + CSS+JS development? Maybe, I've been developing an HTML 5 the last two months, just to teach my self. Honestly, does anybody believe that moving from Silverlight to HTML 5+ CSS + JS is a step forward?

    It looks like currently we are in a technology transition time. Since Steve Jobs an Apple didn't allow pluggins for they mobile devices, plugins are dead. The pugin dream to have a multi platform runtime is dead. And if it's not dead that means HTMLx + CSSx + JS.

    The big issue for us, developpers, is what to do since now. I've developped a large LOB application in Silverlight and now I have to develop a new one. Wich technology must I use? Silverlight or HTML5? The answer is not easy, but I've decide SLV5. Why?

    1. HTML 5 is far from being a mature technology. It's not a closed standard yet.
    2. SLV5 capbilities are really superior to HTML 5 features currently. I'm sure that HTML5, if things tanscrus as they point, will close this gap, but that maybe will happen in a few yeras (3 or 4). Has it sense giving less and worst features today than one yera ago?
    3. Brosers manufacters implement HTML 5 features at their own pace with their own prioritories. That means a lot of hacks in HTML5 development today.
    4. Windows XP + IE 7 usage is still high. In coorporatice enviroments, it's the dominant configuration, at least in the projects I'm working. About 80% of my users runs XP + IE 7. HTML 5?
    5. Of course, my skills in html5+css+js are far from my SLV/.Net skills, but till, I think that SLV/.Net is much more productive than HTML5+CSS+JS.
    6. As conclusion. I think that HTML5+CSS+JS will be the future, but is not present. Facing a large LOB development, today, with HTML 5 maybe a lost of time and money. I thing in a few years, if HTML5 confirms its success, will have productivity tools for HTML and JS similars to the currently available in .Net and developping now with SLV5 and porting it to HTML will be less painful that start developping in HTML5+JS with the current tools and all the hacks needed to bypass the current compatibilities issues
    Friday, December 09, 2011 7:30 PM
  • I love Silverlight, as do many devs, I just wish Microsoft did too...

    Friday, December 09, 2011 7:55 PM
  • "The question now, is what to do? Must we shift to HTML5 + CSS+JS development?"

    umm no, silly goose.  You need to learn the winrt api.  Xaml+C#+.NET (subset)

    Friday, December 09, 2011 9:09 PM
  • Tim Heuer hasn't posted anything about the release on his blog. The Silverlight Blog is just a few very short paragraphs. Is Microsoft talking about this release anywhere?

    Tim hasn't worked on Silverlight for quite some time. For clues as to what he's working on, see the //build/ videos.

    Here's the feature overview post I published today:

    http://10rem.net/blog/2011/12/09/announcing-the-release-of-silverlight-5

    There are also some new videos here on the site, this new forum, the Silverlight blog, all the bits on the download page here, etc.

    I'll be sure to tell the marketing folks that their blog post wasn't long enough. I'm pretty sure that'll be the first time in the history of technology that someone has ever told marketing teams they should be more wordy ;)

    As to the rest, try out the product. It's an awesome release that speaks for itself.

    Pete

    Friday, December 09, 2011 10:16 PM
  • Unless MS is working on a really slick set of tools for html5/javascript development, silverlight will remain relevant.

    for end-to-end rich web development there is no compelling story today.

    coding javascript is a nightmare

    Friday, December 09, 2011 10:37 PM
  • I'll be sure to tell the marketing folks that their blog post wasn't long enough. I'm pretty sure that'll be the first time in the history of technology that someone has ever told marketing teams they should be more wordy ;)

    As to the rest, try out the product. It's an awesome release that speaks for itself.

    Developers are here because Silverlight IS an awesome product. But Microsoft's refusal to address the future of the platform makes it a VERY difficult choice for senior management AND for Developers- NO ONE wants to be stuck with a dead platform, regardless of long term mothball support.

    Show some respect for the developers that drive the Microsoft platform forward and tell us what's already been decided.

     

    Saturday, December 10, 2011 12:18 AM
  • Developers are here because Silverlight IS an awesome product. But Microsoft's refusal to address the future of the platform makes it a VERY difficult choice for senior management AND for Developers- NO ONE wants to be stuck with a dead platform, regardless of long term mothball support.

    Show some respect for the developers that drive the Microsoft platform forward and tell us what's already been decided. 

    It's definitely not a matter of respect. Microsoft has HUGE respect for developers. That's why we release as much as we do as early and often as we do, why we have many related projects on codeplex, why we used UserVoice in product planning and much more. I personally also have a lot of respect for fellow developers both inside and outside Microsoft and our customer community.

    However, with Silverlight, we've never announced details of future versions this far in advance, even when (especially when?) pressured by media outlet rumors. To the best of my knowledge, that's not changing now. I really do understand where you're coming from, though, but I do also want to point out that we tend to share a lot more than many companies.

    If you look at the Windows 8 content we released at build just a couple months ago, XAML is clearly important in Metro. It had roughly the same number of sessions as the HTML client dev we also showcased. It's not Silverlight, but if you look at the code and markup, it is closer to Silverlight than it is to anything else. It's Silverlight in all but name, but perhaps even faster, leaner, and optimized for the new UI. Also, we were clear in saying Silverlight (and other technologies like WPF) will continue to work in desktop mode. Oh, and we even expanded XAML to make it available to C++ developers on Metro. Very cool :)

    When you combine that info with what we've recently done to increase the amount of support from the previous 1 year to 10 years, we're trying to make it possible for you all to build applications today, knowing that we'll support you for some time. To give you an idea of just how long 10 years is, consider this:

    In 2001 (10 years ago):

    • We had only pre-release/betas of .NET Framework 1.0 out (the release was in early 2002). Most Microsoft developers were coding in VB5, VB6, FoxPro, Access, Classic ASP.
    • Windows XP and IE6 were just released in the late summer. (Most consumers were still running Windows 98 as I recall)
    • Intel was producing 180nm technology single core Pentium 4 processors running 1.3 to 2.0ghz
    • The very first version of Mac OSX was released
    • The Lord of the Rings the Fellowship of the Ring (movie) was in theaters

    I also understand hte ambiguity between "support" and "active development" that has been brought up. However, in most of the talks I do throughout the year, at least 50% of the attendees are still maintaining existing and writing new Windows Forms applications because that's what works for them. That hasn't really been anything new added to windows forms in several versions, but it is still supported by Microsoft, the third parts, and still found to be the right tool to solve many application problems. I'm not quite sure why Silverlight is held to a different bar, but regardless of reason, it is.

    So, to recap: We've released an excellent version of one of my favorite products. We haven't announced anything about its future, because we never do. We've taken the great step of removing one of the largest concerns our customers had: the short support lifecycle. In addition, we've shown a clear path for XAML developers for the future for one of our upcoming operating systems. If Silverlight or WPF make it easier for you to develop your applications *today* then you should feel comfortable doing so. If you'd rather switch over to HTML 5 or something, we'll support you there too. It's up to you where you want to go based on your skillset, your customer's requirements, and what the most appropriate technology to solve that particular problem happens to be.

    Pete

    Saturday, December 10, 2011 1:12 AM
  • "The question now, is what to do? Must we shift to HTML5 + CSS+JS development?"

    umm no, silly goose.  You need to learn the winrt api.  Xaml+C#+.NET (subset)

    I haven't read much about WinRT. All I know is that will be runtime for the Metro Applications. I don't know if it will fit my needs as silverlight does. I find silverlight usefull because its plugin nature. It's easy to deploy and distribute, I don't have to care aboout users configurations... All a user needs to run a SLV app is a Windows or Mac OS and a browser. I don't Know if WinRT will be the way to develop LOB apps.

    I've been developping a large LOB application that runs on a SAP GUI application, and I've been able to do that because SLV is a browser plugging and SAP GUI uses internally IE7 for its HTMLViewer control. My silverlight application is deployed in a SAP Server... Will WinRT allow this kind of scenarios? I don't know but it doesn't seems to.

    Currently, I've decided to not worry too much about how software devolopment will evolve in the nex 3-4 yaers. Silverlight 5 is just released, may the rumors that it's the last major release and that it will die are true. But actually, I can't find a better development platform to develop in terms of capabilities and productivity, and it doesn't looks like that HTML will close the gap in the next 2-3 years. WinRT is not an option tody neither in the next years for LOB apps. As I said before, most of mu users are running XP, and I don't expect that all of them will upgrade to Windows 8 suddenly. HTML is not an option too, for me. I can't offer less featuers and capabilities today than I offered a year ago, how can I private my users to use PivotViewer? So I will improve my skills in HTML 5 and learn WinRT and when SLV becomes an ou of date technology I will decide the path to follow, HTML5, WinRT or whatever technology it may emerge.

    That's my point of view. Maybe Microsoft haa already decide to discontinue SLV, and it's a shame, but SLV 5 was released yesterday!! It offers amazing new features and it's a great beast. SLV will die, sure, but we don't must to try to bury it before it happens.

    Saturday, December 10, 2011 6:31 AM
  • Stop whining and start coding! SL5 is awesome! Even if it's the last version it will be relevant for many years. Maybe not until 2021, but by then I'm sure we have something else to tinker with.

    Saturday, December 10, 2011 6:51 AM
  • Here's the feature overview post I published today:

    http://10rem.net/blog/2011/12/09/announcing-the-release-of-silverlight-5

    That's not a Microsoft domain. Although I'm sure the Silverlight team worked hard, it's clear the product is not supported by higher-level management.

    I've been using Silverlight for 18 months. This product took until version 5 (and 2011) to add native support for double-click. I had been hoping future versions could be even more capable (like having browser HTTP handling deal with status codes other than 200 and 404).

    I don't expect we'll be getting any answers about future versions of Silverlight.

    Saturday, December 10, 2011 8:28 AM
  • Tim Heuer hasn't posted anything about the release on his blog. The Silverlight Blog is just a few very short paragraphs. Is Microsoft talking about this release anywhere?

     

    http://www.silverlight.net/

    http://www.microsoft.com/silverlight/

    (event the www.microsoft.com homepage itself contains SL5 links/stuff, click around)

    Seriously, what do you expect? Circus parades and fireworks? Lots of stuff don't make first page; it's just a new version of a small part of their developer platform/stack. We all know the SL strategy has "shifted", but it's it's not all doom and gloom. I will enjoy SL5 for a couple of years still and by then I'm sure there are new toys to play with.

     

    Saturday, December 10, 2011 10:32 AM
  • I'm not quite sure why Silverlight is held to a different bar, but regardless of reason, it is.

    Thanks for the reply Bill.

    One reason Silverlight is held to a ifferent bar is because the Developers are far more dependent on releases from Microsoft to fix things we are locked out of, such as the inability to set a default file name during a file save dialog. Another reason I believe is because it's so damn useful for LOB developers. It's truely the best of all worlds: A stateful application running on the client's machine(Windows AND Mac) that has a rich UI experience and is easy to deploy. For us, it's an awesome choice compared to HTML 5/JS.

    While Microsoft has taken more of a "don't announce early" approach, it was unsettling to not see anything silverlight related during the Win 8 demos, and all of the "WinRT is the way forward" talk is making it worse for people doing LOB development. Silverlight is compelling today because it runs on a large range of operating systems, including Macs, and WinRT is going to be a Windows 8 only show.

    In the end if I'm going to be forced to HTML 5/JS development for broad platform support, I might as well go to a LAMP stack and save my customers money on the licenses.

    Saturday, December 10, 2011 11:38 AM
  • I find silverlight usefull because its plugin nature.

    That's the exact reason why i don't like silverlight. Sharing resources with the browser (and its other plugins that are loaded) is kind of limiting imo.

    It's easy to deploy and distribute..

    I would rather see ClickOnce (for wpf applications) beefed up to mimic the silverlight deployment.

    I don't have to care aboout users configurations...

    You do need to worry about the users configuration if you intend to take advantage of pinvoke or the new 3d apis.  My understanding is that these features are not available on mac.  If you intend on only targeting windows devices then why don't you use wpf/xbap?

    I'm not sure about all of your project requirements so i can't answer most of your questions.  My only point is that "Microsoft wants to force HTML5 on us" is simply not true.  The WinRT platform is still very early and i haven't heard much of the enterprise story but i'm sure they will have a solution.  By the time WinRT has been released it should be a no brainer to move to the platform.  The learning curve will be minimal for wpf and silverlight developers.  

    That said, i'm loving sl5 so far.  Pinvoke alone, will help us take our P.O.S. to the next level!

    Saturday, December 10, 2011 1:19 PM
  • I agree...stop whining and start coding! SL5 rocks...good work.

    Saturday, December 10, 2011 1:30 PM
  • Pete,

    I appreciate your response. It was thoughtful and to the point. I have one question. If we develop an LOB application in Silverlight today, will it run on ARM based tablets? The reason I ask is there are rumors that desktop mode would not be available in ARM based systems [MY understanding is SL is only available in desktop mode]. If we use an MS dev tool [In this case Silverlight], we expect the runtime to be present on all form factors. I work for a Large Investment bank and we have around 12 SL projects in development. Dev's absolutely love it for Intranet LOB applications. If you cannot guarantee that SL cannot be run on ARM based tablets [trust me ARM based tablets are VERY important for *many* reasons], no point in going with SL and SL will be well and truly dead. Waiting for an answer.....

    Thx

    Saturday, December 10, 2011 2:29 PM
  • I find silverlight usefull because its plugin nature.

    That's the exact reason why i don't like silverlight. Sharing resources with the browser (and its other plugins that are loaded) is kind of limiting imo.

    Silverlight can act as browser plugin and as a stand alone application. Yo may choose the approach more appropiated to your needs. In my case the fact SLV being a plugin is really helpful becasue I can embed a Silverlight application inside SAP GUI and via javascript interop communicate both apps.

    It's easy to deploy and distribute..

    I would rather see ClickOnce (for wpf applications) beefed up to mimic the silverlight deployment.

    I've don't used ClickOnce for a long time. I'm sure many improvements have been added since then, but I'm sure it's not easier to distribute than silverlight is, because it's impossible, I just have to upload xap files to the server. In addition, I'm not hosting .xap files in an IIS, I'm hosting them in a SAP Server, I don't know if ClickOnce can be distibuted in a non IIS server.

    I don't have to care aboout users configurations...

    You do need to worry about the users configuration if you intend to take advantage of pinvoke or the new 3d apis.  My understanding is that these features are not available on mac.  If you intend on only targeting windows devices then why don't you use wpf/xbap?

    Yes, Mac does not support pinvoke, of course. I'm not sure, but I think that much of the new 3D stuff can be developped without using pinvoke apis. SLV 5 is not forcing to me to use pinvoke, it's just an option that every team must consider. WPF/xbap is not an option in my scenario.

    I'm not sure about all of your project requirements so i can't answer most of your questions.  My only point is that "Microsoft wants to force HTML5 on us" is simply not true.  The WinRT platform is still very early and i haven't heard much of the enterprise story but i'm sure they will have a solution.  By the time WinRT has been released it should be a no brainer to move to the platform.  The learning curve will be minimal for wpf and silverlight developers.  

    That said, i'm loving sl5 so far.  Pinvoke alone, will help us take our P.O.S. to the next level!

    Well, in fact, I don't remember having asked nothing. I was kust exposing my point of view. I also think/hope that WinRT will cover at least the same space than SLV. And, as I said, I 'm not worried right now about what will happen in the future if SLV is finally discontinued, I'll stay connected and will decide where to shift at that moment. Till then, I'll continue developping in SLV5 for a while.

    I don't think Microsoft wants to force HTML5 on us. I believe is a good movement from Microsoft to support HTML for developping apps for W8 Metro Theme, it demonstrates an open mind. But I also understand that SLV development comunity may feel disappointed about rumors of the SLV future, however I notice an exaggerated hysterics at this point, SLV5 is just released and it offers enough new features to think that today developments will be useful for a enouhg long period. I think the bes option is remaing calm down, enjoy SLV5 and pay attention for news in software develpment field to being able to take the right direction in the future, that's all.

    Saturday, December 10, 2011 2:31 PM
  • Hi ppattisapu,

    As I undertands, Silverlight won't be supported on Metro Theme apps. Is it important? Silverlight is not currently supported in Windows phone 7.x. Yes, I know that people develop WP apps in Silverlight and then upload them to the market store, but try to browse in your WP to an existing SLV application, you can't! So nothing has changed in this sense. I don't care if since now the runtime used to develop applications for windows mobile devices is called Silverlight or WinRT.

    I aggree, tablets market is becoming very important. And is so important that I think that we have to think app for desktop different than we do for tablett and phones. UX experience is really different in these kind of devices and we should write specific apps for them. Using good practices&patterns when coding can save you a lot of time and effort, being able to reuse much of the stuff writen for SLV dekstop apps and allowing you to focus on offering the best UX to your tablet and mobile users. 

    Saturday, December 10, 2011 2:51 PM
  • I'm not quite sure why Silverlight is held to a different bar, but regardless of reason, it is.

    Thanks for the reply Bill.

    Pete :)

    While Microsoft has taken more of a "don't announce early" approach, it was unsettling to not see anything silverlight related during the Win 8 demos, and all of the "WinRT is the way forward" talk is making it worse for people doing LOB development. Silverlight is compelling today because it runs on a large range of operating systems, including Macs, and WinRT is going to be a Windows 8 only show.

    In the end if I'm going to be forced to HTML 5/JS development for broad platform support, I might as well go to a LAMP stack and save my customers money on the licenses.

    Early Win8 demos focused on HTML5. Why? Presumably because that was the brand new thing we were showing, and quite frankly, the idea of using HTML/JS to write apps is pretty exciting to a large segment of the population.

    As to actual content at the event, please go back and watch the build videos. Silverlight was even in the keynote. More importantly, XAML in Metro had equal billing with HTML across the entire event.

    Pete

    Saturday, December 10, 2011 3:03 PM
  • Pete,

    I appreciate your response. It was thoughtful and to the point. I have one question. If we develop an LOB application in Silverlight today, will it run on ARM based tablets? The reason I ask is there are rumors that desktop mode would not be available in ARM based systems [MY understanding is SL is only available in desktop mode]. If we use an MS dev tool [In this case Silverlight], we expect the runtime to be present on all form factors. I work for a Large Investment bank and we have around 12 SL projects in development. Dev's absolutely love it for Intranet LOB applications. If you cannot guarantee that SL cannot be run on ARM based tablets [trust me ARM based tablets are VERY important for *many* reasons], no point in going with SL and SL will be well and truly dead. Waiting for an answer.....

    Thx

    I don't have an answer for you on that. We haven't announced anything else about Win8 beyond what was shown/said at the Build conference.

    To your point though, I would suspect desktop mode on a tablet would not be very popular -- I'd look more towards a touch-optimized Metro UI there regardless of desktop support.

    Pete

    Saturday, December 10, 2011 3:09 PM
  • Thanks, Pete. I believe in you : Microsoft will not throw Silverlight over.

    I like Silverlight!

    btw. I want to tell you : There are a fat lot of Silverlight fans in China.Laughing

    Saturday, December 10, 2011 7:16 PM
  • I like silverlight and have been waiting for silverlight 5 because I want to be able to use Trusted In Browser, at the moment I can't find any other way of doing stuff on the desktop from in a browser. That is why I have stuck with silverlight, if someone can show me a way to do the same in HTML 5 then I would be happy to say silverlight isn't needed any more.

    I would prefer to develop with something that I knew was going to be kept upto date. Googles Chrome browser was only released in 2008 what if we have more changes in browsers or new browsers appear, if silverlight is just suported and not being developed then I guess it could just slowly become something that is more windows IE specific, and with tablets becoming more and more what people want to use, it make silverlight even more limiled.  

    Sunday, December 11, 2011 8:09 PM
  • Happy to see Silverlight version 5 released.

    Just one question, Vassil Terziev from Telerik suggests that we do not have the 10 year guarantee for IE versions beyond IE9.  See: http://blogs.telerik.com/blogs/posts/11-12-13/silverlight-silverlight-5-is-out-what-does-this-mean-to-me.aspx

    On the page of supported browsers we see that IE 7, 8 and 9 are supported and also Firefox 3.6+, Safari 4+ and Chrome 12+.  See here: http://www.microsoft.com/getsilverlight/locale/en-us/html/installation-win-SL5.html

    So how are we to understand this, we have current and future versions of Firefox, Safari and Chrome supported for the next 10 years, but only IE9 and not IE10 and beyond? This seems odd.

     

    Tuesday, December 13, 2011 4:52 PM
  • @finnurhj

    I am not a lawyer. Neither are most of the people parsing the print looking for holes. :)

    IMHO, it says we'll support Silverlight in the currently supported browsers for the next 10 years as long as those browsers themselves are supported by their makers. It also says something along the lines of the list of browsers will be updated over time to reflect status with the latest versions.

    It is a good faith effort to let our customers know that they don't have to worry about support for Silverlight 5 disappearing in a year.

    In the past, Silverlight had (from memory, don't quote me on it) only 12 or 13 months of guaranteed support after a release, so this is a big commitment on our part.

    Pete

    Tuesday, December 13, 2011 10:34 PM
  • I'm disappointed to see (at least according to the docs) that the TileBrush is still not implemented in SL5. I find this to be very limiting in what it allows me to accomplish for the look and feel of an app. To me, all silverlight apps end up looking pretty much the same because all we can make are glossy buttons using gradients. Really hope you guys get around to implementing this someday.

    Wednesday, December 14, 2011 12:43 PM
  • Here is the detailed support page that links to the specific browsers.

    http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifean45

    On that page under Silverlight 5 it states what is quoted below.  Note, the bold emphasis is mine.  But to me this indicates that as new browsers are released Microsoft will update this page (http://www.microsoft.com/getsilverlight/locale/en-us/html/installation-win-SL5.html).

    "Silverlight 5 will support the browser versions listed on this page through 10/12/2021, or though the support lifecycle of the underlying browsers, whichever is shorter. As browsers evolve, the support page will be updated to reflect levels of compatibility with newer browser versions."

    Until a browser is released Microsoft can't guarantee support for it.  In addition browsers in development (IE 10 is great example) is not even in beta stage yet and can't be stated as being supported.  The IE 10 Developer Preview itself comes as is with no Microsoft support.  It is a very early release which gives people interested a head start.

    It wouldn't be fair to start speculating that it isn't on the list because Microsoft won't support it.  A better approach to take is that it isn't on the list because it isn't even in a beta release state yet.  Seriously you can't ask a company to provide support for something that itself isn't even supported yet except as a benefit to help early adopters get the ball rolling on their future projects.

    People are reading too much into things and creating way too much FUD simply for political/fanboy reasons.  When you have respected bloggers like Mary Jo Foley jumping into the mix and spreading this ridiculousness (for example posting a very erroneous blog post stating that Silverlight 5 would only run on IE in Windows) then the development industry itself suffers as a whole.  Coporations and developers who rely and base decisions on what they assume to be solid information are thrown for a loop simply because instead of reporting that there currently isn't anything solid to report people make things up.

    A nearly decade long commitment from Microsoft in my eyes is a very confidence boosting pledge that they will stick with Silverlight developers until HTML5 is mature enough and has enough tooling and IDE support to create solid LOB apps.

    Or better yet until something like Silverlight comes out that makes it possible to create apps that span devices, browsers and operating systems with a compiled/managed language.

    Something that before even publishing to the web will spot errors like an incorrect function name (simply because of a letter being the wrong case), an undeclared variable or an illegal assignment between two different data types and the list goes on.

    Silverlight 5 does a fantastic job of bridging that gap until either HTML5 or something better is available to developers.

    Ken
    http://www.Windows8DevBlog.com

     

    Wednesday, December 14, 2011 3:10 PM
  • Some people here said that they LIKE Silverlight. LIKE is an understatement to me. I LOVE Silverlight. It's what keeping me looking forward for the next work day.

    Wednesday, December 14, 2011 4:30 PM
  • I'm disappointed to see (at least according to the docs) that the TileBrush is still not implemented in SL5. I find this to be very limiting in what it allows me to accomplish for the look and feel of an app. To me, all silverlight apps end up looking pretty much the same because all we can make are glossy buttons using gradients. Really hope you guys get around to implementing this someday.

    I assume TileBrush is something from WPF.  Even without that, you aren't limited to a button having a glossy gradient look.  You can make a button look like anything you want using the templates.  You can make it be an image, or text that is brushed with a video or anything.

    I dont' think you need TileBrush though it might make something more easy.

    Wednesday, December 14, 2011 4:51 PM
  • I dont' think you need TileBrush though it might make something more easy.

     

    Stupid question then: how would you go about making the background of you silverlight app filled with horizontal stripes?

    Thursday, December 15, 2011 1:46 PM
  • Jason,

    During development you can get error codes by routing your WCF calls through the OS rather than through the browser.  It is just a line of code different to do so.

    Thursday, December 15, 2011 3:06 PM
  • Perhaps the void will be filled with "GoogleLight", or maybe it will be "SunLight" (which has a better ring to it) but whatever it is, they cannot announce that browser plug in based applications are going away.  All MS can do is announce they are no longer supporting them.  The technology will continue either way. 

     

    Thursday, December 15, 2011 3:12 PM
  • Thanks for the post, Pete, but when and how can we hear about the Silverlight roadmap. It's not a possible change in direction that is hurting us as much as a lack of transparency. If the technology must change then we can adapt, but how do we do that intelligently if we don't know what the changes are going to be? And how do we have faith in the next big thing if the rug was silently pulled out from under us on this one? Change is ok but please talk to us about it. Thanks!
    Thursday, December 15, 2011 7:20 PM
  • Thanks for the post, Pete, but when and how can we hear about the Silverlight roadmap. It's not a possible change in direction that is hurting us as much as a lack of transparency. If the technology must change then we can adapt, but how do we do that intelligently if we don't know what the changes are going to be? And how do we have faith in the next big thing if the rug was silently pulled out from under us on this one? Change is ok but please talk to us about it. Thanks!

    Yes! Please talk to us about it,  when and how can we hear about the Silverlight roadmap? Thanks.

    Thursday, December 15, 2011 7:50 PM
  • Junxiang,

    I believe they have sort of answered.  Your instructions are to take a right turn, go back to 1991 and begin developing in Java on a proprietary system that can only be seen from other users of the same OS. 

    I am thinking about starting a petition to ask either Sun or Google to develop a modern browser based plugin.  "SunLight" sounds pretty cool, though I could live with GoogleLight.

    Thursday, December 15, 2011 8:21 PM
  • Junxiang,

    I believe they have sort of answered.  Your instructions are to take a right turn, go back to 1991 and begin developing in Java on a proprietary system that can only be seen from other users of the same OS. 

    I am thinking about starting a petition to ask either Sun or Google to develop a modern browser based plugin.  "SunLight" sounds pretty cool, though I could live with GoogleLight.

     

    Google has already started on it. Its called Native Client (NaCl). Google it, errrr I mena Bing it.

    Read the wiki on it and tell me it doesn't sound just like the architectural goals of the Silverlight plugin.

    Thursday, December 15, 2011 9:06 PM
  • I don't think the computer industry is moving in the direction you are thinking Junxiang.  Silverlight 5 will more than likely be the last great browser plugin.  From here on out the industry is moving away from plugins and even "the browser" for that matter.

    A decade from now there will be WindowsOS, AndroidOS, iOS and who knows what else but browsers will be a thing of the past as the OS itself will sit directly on the internet.  WinRT will morph into something more marketable soon and the picture will be much clearer after the beta release of Windows 8.

    Microsoft is setting the stage by making sure not only XAML developers but also HTML/Javascript developers will feel comfortable with their native app framework.  Like before if you get the developers, you get the customers.

    Apple is going down the same route they did with the PC, basically all closed up and shooting themselves in the foot.  it won't be long til they are a small niche market like what happened with the Mac.

    Google doesn't have a clue how to court developers and is actually positioning itself to be it's own biggest competitor with its Motorola purchase and subsequent statement about always launching its handsets with new Android versions before their partners can.

    Microsoft shouldn't have much of a problem locking up this new paradigm shift once they get Windows 8 out the door and the resources into the hands of developers to write native apps for it.

    Whatever they end up calling WinRT I'm sure it'll be just as catchy as Silverlight!  Hang in there Junxiang and keep coding!  The more you learn about Silverlight and WinRT the better positioned you'll be this summer when all the excitment reaches its peak.

    Ken
    http://www.Windows8DevBlog.com

     

    Thursday, December 15, 2011 9:18 PM
  • Google has already started on it. Its called Native Client (NaCl). Google it, errrr I mena Bing it.

    Read the wiki on it and tell me it doesn't sound just like the architectural goals of the Silverlight plugin.

    Wow, you are right the description sounds like Silverilght, though I doubt it is as good.  Still, if Silverlight is dead, then not as good takes its place.  It sucks, and as many developers that have spent their life with MS would, I would prefer to use a MS version, but looks like we might have no choice but to migrate. 

    I can see the headlines, if there really does end up being a large migration of developers. 

    Thursday, December 15, 2011 10:23 PM
  • Silverlight isn't dead until 2021 and not even then.

    Friday, December 16, 2011 7:42 AM
  • I think the differentiation MS can provide is convergence.  I don't know if this is possible but I see MS creating a common platform for Windows 8 Metro (PC and tablet),  Windows Phone and XBox.  This way can leverage themselves against iOS and Android.  SL provides significant benefits for LOB apps but does little for them in the general marketplace.  It reminds me of Java applets.  I bought into that only to be dissapointed.   These are exciting times.

    Friday, December 16, 2011 11:44 AM
  • This works fine with our current models, but our current models are not going to last much longer.  The idea of a "phone" being the device that we carry around is akin to the idea of an Organizer that we once carried around.  It is not that much longer until phones are just another app and we will be agnostic about where we get our wireless.   There will be no such thing as "breaking your phone out" anymore than there is such a thing now as breaking your PC out.  People just dont like it when marketing people control their appliances.

    When "PHONE" becomes just another app, then we will once again expect interoperability and once again, proprietary systems will fail. 

    Right now I get my phone through Skype, my tv through various online places such as netflix and my home internet all through the same individual wireless device.  And I get real 4g and not fake 4g, so I get download speeds of 5megs.  (Which isnt great, but hey I can carry it with me.)  Why do I care about phone based carries who would charge me much more than I currently pay.  (51 dollars a month for unlimited, and it is unlimited as I watch a movie every other night.)

    The model they are working towards is already on the edge of being obsolete.  I admit I am an early adapter, but I can buy a tablet to carry with me to be my phone, and it belongs to me, I can do with it as I like adn I dont have some marketing person controlling it, or charging me 20 bucks extra because I went over on text messaging.

    On a so called "Phone" you can end up with hundreds of dollars in charges for what is never more than 15 bucks a month (unlimited nternational calls) on Skype.  Plus the signal quality seems better.

    The phone model is obsolete, and to start learning an entire set of programming models based on a prioprietary system is not wise.

    My total price for TV, Phone and Internet is 68 dollars a month, on my personal wireless device that I carry with me.  And when I get home, my desktop computer automatically connects to it.  Today the phone model does not apply to me, and in a few years, it wont apply to anyone.

     

    Friday, December 16, 2011 1:13 PM
  • I am very disappointed that Microsoft does not make an official statement regarding the future of Silverlight. As an ISV we have tried in the past with asp.net, html, css and javascript. It was very time consuming and very hard to debug and to get the application renders for all browsers. You need client side and server side scripting. I was very pleased when Silverlight arrives. One development platform for producing a web enabled application with superior technology that looks even better than the look and feel of traditional window forms application.  Starting from Silverlight 4 and 5 (finally decent, non bitmap, printing support)  matures for making great web or LOB  applications. Suddenly in the last BUILD MS  changed direction and make a lot of fuss of supporting HTML5 and riding the same bandwagon as Apple.  What is html5? HTML+CSS+javascript? Is this progress? It’s just going back to the beginning of  the WWW! Yes, the majority of SL developers wants their apps also running on IOS or Android. It was a wrong direction from the start not to support multiple platforms for SL. Solution?

    1. Start supporting SL for Android first, it is open, and it should not be hard for the clever programmers at Richmond to get the job done. Combine powers with the “old” mono team! Don’t take too long to develop Android support.
    2. Make a conversion tool for VS where a  SL application can be transformed to HTML5 shit
    3. Develop a generator and packager where u can have the html5 stuff deployed for IOS.

    A majority of Microsoft technology developers loves Silverlight . The internet forums are full of their concerns. Microsoft hear their voices or they will defect to the competition  when they cannot trust Microsoft product development and strategy any more! Just Invest and make SL an open platform and it will remain or become the best tool for most of the developers!

    Before MS takes the lead introducing and setting standard in new technology. It seems now that MS is becoming a follower instead of the leader in new product development! We know from history that followers will be marginalized and finally ending up as Wordperfect!

     

     

    Friday, December 16, 2011 1:48 PM
  • Start supporting SL for Android first, it is open, and it should not be hard for the clever programmers at Richmond to get the job done. Combine powers with the “old” mono team! Don’t take too long to develop Android support.

    Hboen,

    The days of the phone companies choosing what you can see on your small tablet are numbered, and when that happens, every tablet will simply have a browser for the web, we wont be locked into some marketing persons idea of what we want.  I dont know about you, but I am sick of giant phone companies and their stangle hold on wireless.  I do not want ANY provider that is an more obtrusive than an ISP, and I believe I am simply an early adapter of things to come.

    Google, IPhone and Metro are all going to have to compete with "My tablet" through an unobtrusive wireless ISP.  I beleive "My Tablet" (where phone is just another app) will capture the lions share of the market.

    If you think back to the early days of the web, there was AOL, CompuServe etc and they were portals to the web.  As it matured, they fell into oblivion (though AOL is still around somehow) and I see the same future for wireless gateways.  Today Apple, Google and MS are all trying to be the wireless gateway of the future, and none of them seem to get that we dont need a wireless gateway and in fact prefer to not have such a thing.

     

    Friday, December 16, 2011 2:57 PM
  • hmm... Are you going to put "My Tablet" in your pocket?

    Friday, December 16, 2011 4:06 PM
  • Sure, they sell touch screen tablets all the way to five inches.  I chose the 11 inch one though, as it made more sense for me.  But what do you think they are selling you but tablets for "smart phones"?

    This link contains forty different tablets and covers, all five inches or under.  You can buy cases for them so you can put them in your pocket.  Admittedly a lot of them have Android on them, but they dont have to.  It is just a tablet. 

    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_scat_1232597011_ln?rh=n%3A1232597011%2Ck%3Atablet&keywords=tablet&ie=UTF8&qid=1324073158&scn=1232597011&h=1b9b89df7e2acfff10f14b5749b7f3d8dd7bc8a6#/ref=sr_nr_p_n_size_browse-bin_0?rh=n%3A172282%2Cn%3A%21493964%2Cn%3A541966%2Cn%3A1232597011%2Ck%3Atablet%2Cp_n_size_browse-bin%3A1254616011&bbn=1232597011&keywords=tablet&ie=UTF8&qid=1324073164&rnid=1254615011

     

    I am waiting until February to buy my next "Phone" as there are usually the best deals in mid Feb.  If nothing else comes along, here is my next "Phone"

    http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-XE700T1A-A05US-11-6-Inch-Slate-Win/dp/B005OUQADC/ref=sr_1_32?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1324073531&sr=1-32

     

     

    Friday, December 16, 2011 5:05 PM
  • Here is a link that appears to describe the situation at MS very accurately, according to my sources.

    The message that starts with "The new Windows API is unmanaged because the leaders in the Windows teams " is spot on.

    http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7457371/why-is-winrt-unmanaged

    Monday, December 19, 2011 7:42 PM
  • My thought is that if we have support for a technology, then it will live on.  I mean, as long as the .net framework lives on, Silverlight will too. 

    Tuesday, December 27, 2011 10:44 PM
  • Yeah, well, the apparent goal is to kill Silverlight, dot net and C#.  They are just starting out with Silverlight.

    Tuesday, December 27, 2011 11:03 PM
  • They will not kill the .net framework!  There was a post over on MSDN when somebody asked that question over there, and the response was negative as it should have been.  I mean, according to my mentor at college, Windows couldn't survive and produce the results we get from it without .net, and he also reminded me that if Microsoft was heading that way, it would be counterproductive because then they'd have to replace it with something, and that would take years. 

    Tuesday, December 27, 2011 11:07 PM
  • I think your mentor at college is full of it.  Of COURSE you could do stuff NOT in .Net.  That was done for years.  .Net is just a framework and that same framework could be accessed by a non-.Net language.  And the same framework could be created with a library for non-.Net languages.  Just like they are doing in Win8.  C++ will work with WinRT.  No C# or .Net needed for that (as far as we know now).

    Wednesday, December 28, 2011 8:59 AM
  • Yeah, but what good is WinRT? Imagine you are the CEO of a company that is developing a tablet application.  Right now I think MS has about two percent of that market.  How much development are you going to do in Metro once it comes out?   

     

    Wednesday, December 28, 2011 1:59 PM
  • Uh, if I have a Win8 tablet application, all my development will be in Metro.

    Maybe you are talking about a company that wants to support multiple tablet OSes.

    Currently WE only support Windows.  (except that SL gives us a little more access to Win Phone 7 and Mac bascially for free)

    Thursday, December 29, 2011 9:01 AM
  • That's true, but you have to remember that .net languages are supported in that scenario.  You'll want to use them except when you are doing low-level programming, which I doubt you would be in metro apps.  Remember, .net is not dying!

    Thursday, December 29, 2011 1:45 PM
  • Mtiede,

    That is a good point, as a desktop app, I agree, Metro will probably cannibalize WPF, and then some.  And for a app such as yours, selling to the nuclear industry, the cost of all of your customers having to buy a tablet is probably not that big a deal.  And being able to tie a common look and feel to your desktop apps and the field notebooks will probably work very well with a great cool factor.  Add in that they will remember state between each other, that sort of thing, and it is a very cool app.

    So, yeah, there are places Metro will probably work very well, such as yours, (gauging by the url of your email)  

     

    Thursday, December 29, 2011 1:49 PM
  • Chromebuster,

    The rumors are that C# and dot net are both on the way out.  Notice that Metro, and ExpressionBlend did not pick C# or anything related to dot net to support in the first round.

     

    Thursday, December 29, 2011 2:37 PM
  • No, I would NEVER use C or C++ unless I have to.  For Win 32 development, I used Delphi.  A really great toolset.  And now for .Net, I use Delphi Prism, a REALLY great toolset with Silverlight/xaml/mvvm.  I really like the clarity of the Pascal family of languages versus the C family.

    (C# was designed by one of the Delphi designers, but it still isn't as good as Delphi Prism, imho)

    So even if .Net folds (which I will retire before it ever would), I wouldn't use C++.

    Thursday, December 29, 2011 2:37 PM
  • Chromebuster,

    The rumors are that C# and dot net are both on the way out.  Notice that Metro, and ExpressionBlend did not pick C# or anything related to dot net to support in the first round.

     

    Tis a pity.  Although maybe it was just easier the way they did things.

    But for sure YOU are spreading the rumors that they are on the way out.  (I know, there is lots of speculation elsewhere, but no more than that)

    Going back now to getting work done with Delphi Prism/Xaml/MVVM/Silverlight/Visual Studio, the best combination of languages and tools that I have used since when I started which was 1966.

    Thursday, December 29, 2011 2:41 PM
  • Well, if you started in 1966, given there were no personal computers then, you likely were one of those programmers who wore a whilte labcoat and worked in a lab like setting, pioneering the stuff of today. 

    Every memory cell in a computer was large enough to be seen with the naked eye, as it took eight transistors (each several millimeters across) to build each one.  they had punch cards and the like at that time too.  A very large computer used phenomenal amounts of energy, and filled up entire floors in office buildings 1966.  (Buut better than the fifties when each memory bit took several tubes.)

    Certainly there is still a commonality there, but the total effectiveness that one can achieve has grown exponentially.  Every year we can do more, with less effort. 

    And now it appears there is a movement afoot, to roll back that curve to where it was in the eighties, and put us all to programming with HTML and Javascript.

    Thursday, December 29, 2011 3:19 PM
  • You are close.  In 1966, I was programming Fortran using punch cards to write a program to solve a Schrodinger wave equation with some boundary conditions.  The Physics department had their own computer which was kind of unusual.

    But the computer wasn't all that big.  About the size of a couple of large desks was all.

    And in the 80's, I was doing PL/I which I really liked A LOT.  And I used a color graphics terminal with lightpen input (touch of a sort).  And the graphics were higher resolution than the PCs for a long time (although only 8 colors).

    But the graphics were device independent.   And scalable. The APIs were EXTREMELY well written and documented and, until the age of xaml, were MORE powerful.  I wrote a spreadsheet for the mainframe that included charting (really easy to use) occupying a block of cells.  IBM ended up selling it and the company I worked for got a cut.

    And the documentation was created with VSPrint (I think) which was sgml based (sgml being the grand daddy of xaml)

    So really, I've only recently felt like the PC platform was progressing past what I did in 1979 and 1981 or there abouts on the mainframe.

    That is why I hate to see SL having a limited future.  But it is still the tool I will use for at least the next 5 years.

    Thursday, December 29, 2011 3:57 PM
  • I almost bought a main frame at a bankruptcy auction in 1987 or there-about's.  It was the size of four closets for the memory, and the rest of it was as big as a bunch of desks, and other peices of furniture, it was from a bank so it had  an entire closet looking structure that was just for phone, and of course, it was nitrogen cooled.

    I almost bought it, but I was worried about the cost of shipping it to my friends garage fifty miles away.  I bet today, my laptop is much more powerful.

    I think your estimates are a bit colored in favor of the mainframe for several reasons, as punch card programming just isnt that great and that is still how it was done in the late seventies.  And the idea of portable for a mainframe was silly. But even if true that the mainframe was 30 years ahead of the desktop, the position of the personal computer in the eighties was far behind where it is at today and the idea that people want to force us to go back to this because of some inter-operability issue is insane.  Consider if HTML5 takes four tiimes as long to program in than Silvelright, then one programmer in their life could either do forty years work (or so) in Silverlight, or they could still spend forty years in Javascrpt and HTML5 but only accomplish ten years work.   

    And besides, HTML programming for the future?

     

    The first Cray-1™ system was installed at Los Alamos National Laboratory in 1976 for $8.8 million. It boasted a world-record speed of 160 million floating-point operations per second (160 megaflops) and an 8 megabyte (1 million word) main memory. The Cray-1's architecture reflected its designer's penchant for bridging technical hurdles with revolutionary ideas. In order to increase the speed of this system, the Cray-1 had a unique "C" shape which enabled integrated circuits to be closer together. No wire in the system was more than four feet long. To handle the intense heat generated by the computer, Cray developed an innovative refrigeration system using Freon.

    Thursday, December 29, 2011 4:33 PM
  • I think the point is that Silverlight is a mature platform. Win forms is still a
    bankable skill but it has a specific set of circumstances when it makes
    sense to use the platform and the same goes for Silverlight. If it fits the
    project then it makes sense, doesn’t matter if there is going to be a
    Silverlight 6 or not. It is incredible that Silverlight matured so quickly and
    I think this represents what MS thinks of the platform. I have noticed that
    they are integrating into their main sites (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/home)
    so this is again indicative of what MS thinks of the platform.

    SO...To conclude just make sure that Silverlight fits what you are trying to accomplish
    with your project and I promise the platform won’t disappoint.

     

    Cheers,

    Ron

     

    Monday, March 05, 2012 12:07 PM
  • Paul Thurrott writes yesterday:

    Hinted at in that post to the Windows Phone Developer blog is something I've been waiting to discuss for months, however. And that's this: The Silverlight-based Windows Phone developer environment is going away in Windows Phone 8, and is being replaced by WinRT-based APIs like those in Windows 8. Why? Two reasons. First, Silverlight is dead, cancelled internally by Microsoft. And second, Windows Phone 8 is Windows 8 for all intents and purposes.

    http://www.winsupersite.com/article/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/wininfo-short-takes-april-6-2012-142761

    When is Microsoft finally going to announce what everyone already knows?

    Friday, April 06, 2012 11:07 PM
  • Silverlight is not dead, it has simply been re-skinned as a development system (Metro) which will only operate on a small subsystem of the computers in the world.  (Windows 8) 

    The main difference between Silverlight and Metro is that Microsoft collects 30% of your profits if you use Metro and they collect Nothing, zero,nada, nothing at all, if you use Silverlight.  Of course they are going to try to convince you that Silverlight is dead.  But get real.  it is slated to last to the year 2021.  Did you know that Hewlett Packard estimated that one computer in the year 2025 will be as powerful as EVERY COMPUTER ON THE ENTIRE PLANET put together in 1999?  One computer more powerful than all of them put together, and that will be everyone's desktop.

    Obviously, anything we write is going to be obsolete by 2021 anyway.  We are in the midst of a technology revolution and the idea that you can write an app that will still be good in 2022 is nonsensical. 

    So, if you believe Silverlight is dead, then it is (for you) but there is NO computer that can receive windows Metro which cannot also receive silverlight.  It is up to you if you want to drink the kool-aid and give Microsoft 30 percent of your profits, but it is only if you are duped that this would be so.  You can totally live in the world without Metro 8 and without giving Microsoft their cut.

    Microsoft succeeded because they went for open standards back when there were fifteen versions of operating system.s  Now, they are forgetting what the once knew, adn they will either revert, or become just another contender.

    Friday, April 06, 2012 11:18 PM
  • Silverlight is not dead, it has simply been re-skinned as a development system (Metro) which will only operate on a small subsystem of the computers in the world.  (Windows 8) 

    Technically, that is incorrect. Silverlight is a runtime with its own cut-down .NET libraries and toolkit. WinRT is another. They are not the same and have not been built to be backwardly compatible.

    Saturday, April 07, 2012 6:52 AM
  • Of course they are not done the same, as if they didnt redo it, then people would object to paying 30% of all profits.  They had to redo it.  But behind the scenes, many of the libraries are still the same.  They are slated to be replaced, but havent yet been. 

    Saturday, April 07, 2012 10:45 AM
  • Obviously, anything we write is going to be obsolete by 2021 anyway.  We are in the midst of a technology revolution and the idea that you can write an app that will still be good in 2022 is nonsensical.

     

    That is not necessarily true... I created a website for an university library back in '94 that is STILL being used.  They've slapped up a new homepage, and changed the contacts page, but all the rest of it is my original HTML (written, by the way, using only Notepad).  That's almost 18 years ago now.  I realize that HTML is not exactly "programming", but 18 years is a LONG time in this industry for ANYTHING.

    I'm not happy with the tight-lipped behavior from MS in general, nor with the slow response of the SL dev team to critical bugs in previous versions of the product, but I'm also not "just" an SL developer... Anyone that limits themselves to a single development environment or platform is not really planning for their OWN future.

    Sure, SL is eventually going to go away... and?!?  VFP "went away" too, but there are a lot of applications out there written using VFP that are still being used, and still being extended, and now being "ported" to newer platforms/languages.  MS no longer "supports" it, but the companies, users and developers don't really care.

    Things evolve.  If we, as developers, don't evolve alongside the technology, it is time to find a new career.

    Thursday, May 17, 2012 12:24 PM
  • However, with Silverlight, we've never announced details of future versions this far in advance...

    It's now August 2012. We should expect a Silverlight 6 announcement any day now?

    Friday, August 17, 2012 9:36 AM