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Quo vadis WebsitePanel? - some discussion with project leaders needed

    General discussion

  • Hello,

    I would like to receive clear statement from Outercurve if this project is runned, managed, developer .. whatever by anyone? Don't get me wrong but if I don't want participate in some project then I'm not joining it (I'm not even talking about leading role which requires way more responsibility and time). Maybe Outercurve was forced to "take" this project? For us (formet DNP and current WSP users) it would be far better to know where are we standing even if it will be information that we are left alone than keep in this state where we actually don't know nothing or being kept in dark about plans for WSP.

    Regards

    P.S. I've sent this text also as a comment to http://www.outercurve.org/Blogs/EntryId/32/Answering-your-questions-about-WebsitePanel. This entry was the only one placed on Outercurve blog by Bradley Bartz which is "WebsitePanel Project Leader" so it doesn't look to good :/.

    • Edited by Webio Saturday, October 08, 2011 8:50 PM
    • Changed type Webio Saturday, October 08, 2011 8:54 PM
    Saturday, October 08, 2011 8:49 PM

All replies

  • I'd say it's dead. Pavel does not respond to emails, I do not see any kind of "leadership", we are dead folks.

    Congrats Microsoft for making the 2011 WebHostAutomation Helm 4 :)

    • Edited by echoDreamz Saturday, October 08, 2011 9:23 PM
    Saturday, October 08, 2011 9:22 PM
  • I still think that this is very good hosting control panel. Biggest issue is IIS7 provider in my opinion. If it would be fixed then a lot of problems with WSP would dissapear (bandwidth/diskspace calculation, probably memory and CPU usage).

    Regarding big issue with SSL then I would love to see that Outercurve people are contacting someone from MS regarding CSR generation. This should be not too hard to someone who knows IIS from dev side.

    Sunday, October 09, 2011 9:32 AM
  • I agree with Webio.

    But the project needs some serious leadership.

    Sunday, October 09, 2011 2:57 PM
  • It is a good system. But a system cannot be good (especially a hosting system) with no core developers, no support team, no staff, no leadership. No one is stepping up to the plate to claim they run this show.

    Microsoft should have kept the original developers rather than moving everything around. Parallels (SWSoft) did this to WHA, and look what happened to Helm.

    Monday, October 10, 2011 3:56 PM
  • We are thinking about it to start developing wsp further. But we think the are a couple of issues:

    - Can we build further on the current build and how is this going with the copyright.....

    - We have a couple of .net developers but we need some extra hands so to say.

    - And the support, our guys also need to eat :-)

    So in other words can we get a team (developers) together and get wsp up and running again.

    Monday, October 10, 2011 9:57 PM
  • That would be not so bad idea but still I would like to receive clear information that MS/Outercurve/whatever is not planning to develop this project because there is no point of developing WSP as a separate teams.

    Actually I would like to get clear information that we can do whatever we want with this project if Outercurve is not planning to develop it anymore. I'm sure this would kick development of this project forward.

    For now we have a lot of question and no answers for them. I really hope that this will change in near future.

    Only reason that I see why MS has no interest in this project is:

    http://blogs.iis.net/bradleyb/archive/2011/04/12/new-elastic-cloud-services-on-iis.aspx

    which is already tested by:

    http://www.iis.net/previewoffers

    (I wanted to participate too - "We’re in the early stages of working with our partners to help develop elastic cloud offers like these.  If you’d like to be an early adopter feel free to contact me directly at bradleyb@microsoft.com" - but never got response after my email that I'm interested in testing this solution)

    .. and of course no surprise here because bradleyb@microsoft.com is person responsible for WSP in Outercurve.

    P.S. Like I've informed in the fist post under this topic I've also submited a comment under this blog entry:

    http://www.outercurve.org/Blogs/EntryId/32/Answering-your-questions-about-WebsitePanel

    but blog is moderated and so far it has not been published. This whole situation is so annoying and I would never believe that so much people can be so unresponsible.

    Tuesday, October 11, 2011 11:49 AM
  • I Agree on that, but we need to go further. We have to make choices towards the future and how it's going now F$%@$# shitty :-)

    We have sent multiple emails to Pavel and Ryan but we are getting no response at all.

    So what now? Wait and wait and wait?

     

    Tuesday, October 11, 2011 12:06 PM
  • This is kind of funny and kind of annoying story but about one hour ago I've received probably mass email from Outercurve with title "Outercurve Foundation Developer Survey: Take Our Survey" which begins with:

    "Software developers and businesses are using more open source software today than ever before. The Outercurve Foundation would like to get direct insights from developers about how they engage with open source. We'd be honored if you shared your insights and experiences by taking our brief survey, "Engaging in an Open Source World.""

    where last words are pointing to survey which is later described as "Please take a few minutes to answer some fun and thought provoking questions."

    Now I'm really annoyed with this situation how Outercurve is handling WSP.

    Tuesday, October 11, 2011 3:35 PM
  • I got an email from Ryan, that Bradley will send me a roadmap of WSP.

    We will see......

     

    Wednesday, October 12, 2011 10:04 AM
  • Hello Zeptor_MJ,

    please share it, when/if that happens. We were thinking about to start development for our internal needs given the absolute lack of any information and any commitment by Microsoft (of which absence of any roadmap for future development is just the most evident symptom) but if, out the blue, a roadmap surface, we can consider sticking with official version.

    Thank you.

    Wednesday, October 12, 2011 11:37 AM
  • Hello The Bitland Prince,

    I will do that.

    But if the project doesn't go futher maybe it's an idea that we put our 'heads' together?

    Michel

     

     

    Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:33 PM
  • Hello Michel,

    I believe that could be a good idea. We've been watching at WSP and its development for a few time and we had a few time to allocate resources to work on this project. However, we plan to (or better, we need) many improvements. Like everybody here, we would prefer Microsoft to keep up with its promise and keep on developing WSP but while we appreciate latest v1.2.0, there's a lot which needs to be done and team is not providing basically any information.

    Lack of a roadmap is a clear sign of no-commitment policy: "we promise nothing but we might eventually work on this, sometimes".

    Putting our heads together is not that easy as one might think because that would basically mean forking the whole project which, if Microsoft then wakes up and start development again, could mean having to reconcile, merge code and so on.

    Anyway, I think it's a good idea to start thinking about forming a team of interested people and give us a deadline to start working on our own. I'd like to wait a few time more in order to understand if development from MS will continue. We were thinking about waiting until end of this year to decide... what do you think about it ?

    Best regards,
    Andrea

    Wednesday, October 12, 2011 2:05 PM
  • All, thanks to Grzegorz Wołoszy, I have become aware that there seems to be a lot of frustration around this project.   I have contacted the project leader, Bradley Bartz, and the ASP.NET Open Source Gallery manager, Bradley Millington to find out what is going on.    The Foundation does not appoint the project leader, however, we want to ensure that it is a success.   As soon as I hear back from one of the Bradley(s) I will post again.   I am also contacting several other project participants to see if they have insight on what is going on with this project.   

    A little bit about how we operate: We are never forced to take on a project.   The Gallery Manager typically reviews a project proposal and gives us a thumbs up/down, our Technical Director reviews the proposal, and then our Board of Directors votes to accept (or not) the project.    The project leader is provided operational, administrative, and IP management from the Foundation, but the project leader is responsible for the overall success of the project.    If that person needs help, or cannot fulfill their duties, our first approach would be to ask the project leader to engage with the community to find a new leader.  The Foundation does not micro manage the projects.   With 17 projects and growing, we depend on the PL's, but are here to step in and help facilitate a resolution to your frustrating situation. 

    I hope to have a resolution shortly.

    Best regards,

    Paula Hunter, Executive Director, Outercurve Foundation

    phunter [at] outercurve [dot] org

    Wednesday, October 12, 2011 2:41 PM
  • All, thanks to ...

    I prefer using company name which is Webio :)
    Anyway, I think it's a good idea to start thinking about forming a team of interested people and give us a deadline to start working on our own. I'd like to wait a few time more in order to understand if development from MS will continue. We were thinking about waiting until end of this year to decide... what do you think about it ?

    I agree.

    Wednesday, October 12, 2011 3:35 PM
  • Ok until the end of this year. Till then :-)
    Wednesday, October 12, 2011 3:44 PM
  • http://websitepanel.codeplex.com/releases/view/69982

     

    I see some new files added as of today... Any idea what these are?

    Wednesday, October 12, 2011 7:56 PM
  • Guys,

    I had email traffic with Bradley.

    At the moment there is nothing done with the current issues. The problem is that there is not enough community involvement. So in other words not enough developers who are helping to contribute.

    I think it would be a good idea that the people who have time to improve and add features to wsp make a front. (with one contact person toward WSP team / MS).

    This way I think we can kick start the WSP project and let's the project go forward.

    How do you think about this? Hope to hear from you soon!

    Thanks,

    Michel

     

     

    Thursday, October 13, 2011 2:48 PM
  • What would be difference between organizing ourselves and keep trying to contact Outercurve/MS/Bradley for keeping this project alive?

    Sorry but for now I'm not willing to give a credit to a person which has just left WSP community without saying anything.

    There should be some actions taken from his side to clarify things here instead of just relaying his messages by you. For now it feels like this is just something to which he is not commited too much.

    This is how I feal about this currently and this is only my opinion.

    Thursday, October 13, 2011 3:21 PM
  • First. The Subject is of this thread is: project leaders needed

    Second. WSP is open source now. We all can see that input from the community (at this moment) isn't at his top right now. Don't get me wrong, I also think that they fucked things up.

    But if we want that this project goes further we have to make a choices and look to the futere and not the past :-)

     

     

    Thursday, October 13, 2011 3:34 PM
  • All, Stephen Walli (Outercurve Technical Director) and I are actively working this, and will keep you posted when we have updates to report.
    Thursday, October 13, 2011 6:27 PM
  • The problem here is not Bradley at all. I'm sure he's a good guy who has been left in the wild to manage, alone, a project which is serveral times bigger than him. Let's not forget that Microsoft is marketing WSP in their WebsiteSpark program too and WSP can be installed using Application Gallery.

    The problem here is Microsoft. The very same fact that MS dropped this project to Outercurve Foundation is a clear sign of no-committment. Paula won't get offended if I say that many of us decided to invest into this software because of Microsoft tag on it and because Microsoft stated this software would have been supported. Which definitely isn't the case. I respect Outercurve but that's not the same thing.

    I'm a bit appalled that Bradley, who clearly knows about this thread, didn't yet jump in to explain what's going on. As far as I understand, he's the only guy working on WSP now (again, is assigning a single developer to a project what MS calls "supported" ?). I'm sure Paula is struggling to get more information but the very fact no-one can quickly say "we're working on this. Here's stuff we're working on" explains the whole situation. Especially because all relevant changes in WSP 1.2.0 come from contribution.

    And what's the story about not working on a project because lack of developers ? Is Bradley assigned to work on WSP or does this as a hobby ? One should say that communities get created by active development, not the opposite.

    After the Exchange /hosting fiasco, I'm frankly rethinking about stickying to MS technologies. We have developers to work on WSP if we wish to go on our own but I can understand many SMBs which have been attracted by Microsoft promises and have no developers to work on their own version : they probably feel bad since they're realizing they placed a bet on wrong horse.

    I have just one word for this: "unprofessional". And MS should know that this industry is mostly made of "professionals". Do the math.

    Saturday, October 15, 2011 1:08 PM
  • Hang in there folks... a resolution is just around the corner!   Paula
    Tuesday, October 18, 2011 11:55 PM
  • Hey guys, I apologize for not jumping on this thread sooner.  I’d like to reaffirm that Microsoft remains committed to the project and will continue to provide support and contribute updates.  As we move forward with WebsitePanel we’d very much like to get more community involvement in both feature prioritization and development.  To help lead that effort Feodor Fitsner will be stepping in as the new project leader for WebsitePanel.  Feodor has an extensive history with WebsitePanel.  While he is no longer affiliated with Microsoft he remains committed to and is passionate about WebsitePanel and the community using it.  Please join me in welcoming Feodor back to WebsitePanel!
     
    Thanks, Brad.

    Friday, October 21, 2011 10:05 PM
  • Hi guys,

    Some time ago I stepped away from WebsitePanel development as Microsoft took it over. Now I can see WebsitePanel needs some additional leadership and development resources. To drive the community I decided to offer my help in leading WebsitePanel open-source project at Outercurve.

    Let me clear some points. I'm not a Microsoft employee anymore. I'm joining the project on voluntary basis and going to spend my free time on it. Because of that I'm not planning to start any major development, but I'm willing to provide ongoing project support: fixing of most-demanded bugs, coordinating contributions to code and documentation, releasing builds, collaborating with community on road-map.

    Let me know if you have any questions.


    Feodor Fitsner
    Saturday, October 22, 2011 4:29 AM
  • Feodor welcome back :-)

    This is great news!

    Michel

    Saturday, October 22, 2011 5:35 PM
  • Truly great news! Welcome home Feodor!
    Sunday, October 23, 2011 1:43 AM
  • Hi and welcome back. I can't really say that i am happy with you spending your free time with this project. Actually i am not happy at all.

    We need someone with full time for this. Many new technologies are knocking at the door.

    Microsoft should form a full team for this project and unite that team with IIS team. Free time coding is not a good answer.

    Hire Feodor and let him form the team. Do everything like we did it at the begining of this project and make this control panel the best control panel for windows servers out there.

    If you have a contributor with great code hire him or pay him for his work.

     

    Sunday, October 23, 2011 10:58 PM
  • All, thanks to Grzegorz Wołoszy, I have become aware that there seems to be a lot of frustration around this project.   I have contacted the project leader, Bradley Bartz, and the ASP.NET Open Source Gallery manager, Bradley Millington to find out what is going on.    The Foundation does not appoint the project leader, however, we want to ensure that it is a success.   As soon as I hear back from one of the Bradley(s) I will post again.   I am also contacting several other project participants to see if they have insight on what is going on with this project.   

    A little bit about how we operate: We are never forced to take on a project.   The Gallery Manager typically reviews a project proposal and gives us a thumbs up/down, our Technical Director reviews the proposal, and then our Board of Directors votes to accept (or not) the project.    The project leader is provided operational, administrative, and IP management from the Foundation, but the project leader is responsible for the overall success of the project.    If that person needs help, or cannot fulfill their duties, our first approach would be to ask the project leader to engage with the community to find a new leader.  The Foundation does not micro manage the projects.   With 17 projects and growing, we depend on the PL's, but are here to step in and help facilitate a resolution to your frustrating situation. 

    I hope to have a resolution shortly.

    Best regards,

    Paula Hunter, Executive Director, Outercurve Foundation

    phunter [at] outercurve [dot] org

    Everything that Microsoft and/or Outercurve has done with this project until now is just a very big FAIL.

    Sunday, October 23, 2011 11:01 PM
  • Hang in there folks... a resolution is just around the corner!   Paula


    I'm sorry Paula but bringing Feodor back to organize this project in his free time is not the resolution that we (the web hosting providers) are looking for.

    This so called resolution will be just another FAIL.

    Sunday, October 23, 2011 11:03 PM
  • Hi and welcome back. I can't really say that i am happy with you spending your free time with this project. Actually i am not happy at all.

    We need someone with full time for this. Many new technologies are knocking at the door.

    Microsoft should form a full team for this project and unite that team with IIS team. Free time coding is not a good answer.

    Hire Feodor and let him form the team. Do everything like we did it at the begining of this project and make this control panel the best control panel for windows servers out there.

    If you have a contributor with great code hire him or pay him for his work.


    I'm wondering how many of us would be willing to pay/donate to this project so Outercurve could hire someone close to Microsoft to develop WSP for us. It would be nice to have some informations about costs of one or more developers which could be hired so we could discuss monthy donations for this project to keep it alive. Anyone would be interested in solving our "WSP situation" this way?
    Monday, October 24, 2011 7:45 AM
  • I'm wondering how many of us would be willing to pay/donate to this project so Outercurve could hire someone close to Microsoft to develop WSP for us.


    I would consider donation or even subscription fees however we would need to see regular progress and releases if something like this was to happen. 

    Just take a look at the bug list, it's going to take more than some free time or a few hobbyist to save this project.  For this project to succeed we can't have what appears to be a random updates every 'x' number of months.  I've been waiting patiently for 'something' to happen for a long time however as more time goes on without any progress I'm left with nothing more than a liability that I've got to find another solution for.

    Honestly, in a way I feel cheated on the whole deal because it wasn't long after we purchased and converted from Helm 3 to DotNetPanel that the transition to Microsoft occurred.  At the time everyone thought that they where the white night because DNP updates had stopped but so far we really haven't seen much more than this project getting shuffled around someone's desk to keep the squeaky wheels a step down from a full riot.

     

    Monday, October 24, 2011 12:53 PM
  • All, first of all, I want to emphasize that Outercurve does not pay any developers to work on projects.    Like many (most?) open source projects, we rely on a community of developers to contribute to each project that comes into our foundation.   I think if you were to check the Eclipse or Apache foundations, you would find the same to be true.   An employer may pay a developer to work on an open source project because that project is of importance to them, but many people work on OSS projects in their free time.

    Respecting the terms of the license, any and all of you are free to contribute to and benefit from the work being done, equally.    If you want the project to thrive, then participate.   

    Dan, I honestly don't understand your issue.    Bradley had to move on, the community was rightfully upset by the lack of communication, thankfully one individual  notified me, we worked the issue, and a new leader stepped up to take on the project.   Feodor is free to accept co-leaders and encourage more committers (which would lighten his load).   Since he had the most history with the code, it seemed like a good transition.

    I must reiterate that this is an open source project, no one is going to develop it for you other than a community of developers that choose to work on it.  

    Monday, October 24, 2011 3:40 PM
  • I think no one is telling that Outercurve should pay for devs. I was thinkink about communiby based subscription where community is paying for developer which could be lead by Feodor. This way Feodor could focus on leading this project in free time, developer would be paid by community and Outercurve would not pay for anythinf for obvious reasons. From my perspective it would be better to have one or two devs working full time on WSP instead of community spread development which can't guarantee when next version / bug fixing will be released. Only problem is that we don't know how many people would be interested in this kind of running this project. It would be good if more people would participate in this discussion.
    Monday, October 24, 2011 10:15 PM
  • Paula, create one survey like Microsoft usually does with other software, invite all DotNetPanel customers to participate in it and you will receive all the feedback you need. This can be done in 2 hours.

    The all open source thing with WSP is a disaster for 80% of the hosting providers who were using WSP. Ask this in the survey and you will find out that it is true.

    Create an online meeting with many ex WSP customers and you will receive all the feedback you need.

    It passed more than 1 year and you saw that the community contributions plan is not working. You need another 2 years to pass just to realize this?

    Windows Server 8 will probably come out soon. What are the hosting providers going to do? Wait for community contributions? This is a bad joke.

    All the open source project thing with WSP must stop now. It is not working as it is organized at this moment.

    At least try to speak with the IIS team and see if it is possible for them to take over the project. Invite some IIS team members or leaders to the online meeting and the hosting providers can speak with them directly. IIS and WSP have a really strong connection. I think this would be the best thing to do with WSP.

    Monday, October 24, 2011 10:43 PM
  • Guys, i've just sent this email to the IIS team leader (Bill Staples). Do i have community support for this? Do you guys want to involve in this discussion?

    Feodor, do you consider this to be a better idea for WSP?

     

    Hi.

    If it is possible i want to have a conversation with you on the phone or email or whatever about the WebsitePanel project and the possibily of the IIS team to take over the leadership of WebsitePanel.

    Why am i asking this?
    After WebsitePanel went open source everything was a joke. No community contrubutions, no updates, no developers working actively on the project, no bug fixes, no support, etc.

    Why do i think it is a good idea for the IIS team to take over WebsitePanel?

    Between IIS and WSP there is a strong connection. The hosting providers might use IIS but all the web hosting customers are using control panels like WSP. Having many features from IIS working better with WSP will make IIS more popular among website owners acros the world.

    So, if you have the time and want to discuss further we can do it anytime.

    Thank you.

    Monday, October 24, 2011 11:08 PM
  • Hello,

    let me first say "hi!" to Feodor coming back home to WSP. I always appreciated his efforts for DotNetPanel (now WebsitePanel) and let me say I still appreciate his willingness to help even if he's not working for MS anymore. There's nothing personal against anyone here, especially Microsoft, Outercurve Foundation, Feodor, Paula or Bradley or anyone else. We're all professionals here and I think all of us would like to be treated as such.

    I must say that I second what Dan wrote in his messages, 100%. Let's be honest here in saying that no-one considers Feodor working in his free time as project leader a solution to WSP problems. I appreciate Paula efforts but things tail-spinned here.

    Many companies, including us, adopted WSP because of Microsoft tag on it. We thought that MS committment was a good thing and for sure they would support their own products.

    Companies relying on WSP cannot welcome a solution where project leader will work on WSP in his free time, when possible. And let's be serious, the subscription model is a joke : can't really MS afford to pay 2-3 people working full-time at WSP ? I can't believe that...

    Hosting partners which decided to implement WSP cannot be treated as kids playing with some kind of Linux media-player where "it's open-source, baby: fix it yourself". Is Microsoft a group of folks working in their basement or a big corporation with tens of thousands of employees ?

    I second Dan: if Microsoft is serious about WSP stop this madness thing of "... but it's open-source !" because we're not kids developing our own compiler in free time. Bring back WSP into MS, assign a small team of 2-3 paied people who will work on WSP fulltime, get focused on Microsoft products and make WSP a free product like WebMatrix is.

    Let me say it's in Microsoft interest to have a free product like WSP. We all know how much money MS is making from Windows Server and Tools Business Division and WSP could be really considered another weapon to sell those pricey SPLA licenses.

    Anything else means Microsoft will not commit to WSP in any way, which basically means that professional cannot rely on WSP and should look somewhere else or use WSP as a basis for their own product.

    Not that I don't already know the answer there...

    Again, there's nothing personal here. But people in hosting industry, even those using a free product like WSP while paying lots of money for SPLA licenses, cannot be considered kids activating some dedi-server to host their personal blogs.

    Of course, complaining is not helpful and we know that. We're already looking around and considering all options because solution which MS/OF brought to us is not acceptable.

    Thank you.

    Tuesday, October 25, 2011 10:43 AM
  • Thanks for the notes, we have passed on your comments to Microsoft and will continue to keep them in the loop.  We would be happy to have full time resources devoted to this project, but in the mean time, a strong project leader, focused on addressing the backlog of issues is a good first step (and frankly essential to capture the status in an organized manner).

    I am also pleased to report that a number of developers have offered their support to Feodor, and I do believe that he has the skills and desire to move this project forward in a professional manner.   Open source as a development model has proven successful when a team of motivated developers collaborate to keep a project on track and vibrant.   We are seeing this type of success with many other projects where the developers are not working full time on the code, the critical success factor has been the project leader.   

    We will provide Feodor with any support we can to lighten administrative or governance burdens so that he can assess the development issues and make further recommendations on how we all can improve the situation (including ongoing dialog with Microsoft regarding their support of the project).

    Tuesday, October 25, 2011 5:17 PM
  • This is not a solution just another sticky plaster to try and hold things together.

    We use to use Helm and spent many 1,000's on licenses and support and bug fixes where good, before it got bought by Parallels and all us Helm customers got shafted as they immediately dropped all development work and left it as a legacy product.

    This meant moving on, so went with DotNetPanel and again spent many 1,000's on licenses and support and development was excellent with monthly updates and everything was good. Until Microsoft came along and bought up DotNetPanel and again all us DotNetPanel customers got shafted.

    We had 2 paid support tickets open for DotNetPanel when the announcement that Microsoft was taking over was made, and within two days of the announcement all replies to the support tickets stopped and the issues never got resolved and lost the money paid for the support tickets.

    For 18 months now nothing has really happened, every few months people get frustrated on here and complain and again another project leader is assigned, more promises made, and then thats it nothing happens. We now have Feodor back as project leader, but he posted once 3 days ago and has disappeared again. Sorry but that does not show any commitment, just another sticky plaster in a vain attempt to try to not make this a total PR disaster for Microsoft. 

    We even paid $200 for the 'so called' Microsoft support to be told it is only for installation issues and that any thing else such as bugs fixes are left to the community to fix. WHAT COMMUNITY???? With project leaders that you never here from, no way for developers who want to work on it to contact any one, nothing happens.

    The forums are littered with posts from developers who have offered help but have had no replies from Feodor when he was a paid project leader last time and none of the project leaders since. The whole open source community thing for WebsitePanel is a total failure and this new solution doesn't look any better. 

    DotNetPanel was the last good control panel for Windows hosting and Microsoft have killed it by changing it to WebsitePanel and doing nothing with it.

    Being a Microsoft Hosting Partner is to uncertain for running a business with SPLA licenses and pricing continually changing and any good control panels for Windows servers being bought up and killed off.

    It's time that Microsoft started to look after it's Hosting Partners instead of continually shafting them. I don't think it's to much to ask considering the amount that they receive in SPLA licenses payments each month.

    Tuesday, October 25, 2011 6:08 PM
  • I've been following the thread and didn't responded to the last comments but come on guys.

    Don't get me wrong, but everyone is saying what's not good but no one is taking action. So far I've heard we are the only one who signed the agreement with Outercurve so we can contribute to the project.

    I see a lot of people say that they have solved bugs and made additions to the code / wsp, but we are you?

    Now you can make a change and get the project going forward with Feodor as the leading man. But we need more developers, so People come on JOIN :-) 

    @Andrea --> Where are you? :-)

    Wednesday, October 26, 2011 11:01 AM
  • Hi Paula

    I think the frustration comes from the fact that many can't offer technical help because they either don't have the skills or they are concentrating on their core business. For my part I want this project to last and now Feodor is back that is good thing. If the community is small (chicken and egg) that might be because people don't want to risk their business on a control panel with shaky foundations. I moved from Helm for the same reason and I thought DNP was going to boom.

    I've just installed WSP on 3 more new servers, but I would contribute financially to development if we can't get enough community support or if it would encourage more of the community to participate.

    If there's anything I can contribute then I'm in....good luck Feodor I'm behind you.

     

    Saturday, October 29, 2011 9:29 AM
  • Hello,

    My name is TJ Havens. I run a small development firm. We run our own Hosting Business which utilizes both WebSitePanel & WHMCS. I have been with WebSitePanel since v1.0 of DotNetPanel. I must say, that I have found WebSitePanel / DotNetPanel to be very easy to use. And I honestly have not experienced all the problems that I read about within the forums.

    Every time I have had a problem, and understandably, I am not using 100% of the features, but, I am using the core features and find them COMPLETELY satisfactory to my needs.

    In addition, I have always found Feodor, Pavel and Co. to provide excellent support.

    Regards,
    TJ Havens

    Monday, October 31, 2011 12:12 AM
  • That would be not so bad idea but still I would like to receive clear information that MS/Outercurve/whatever is not planning to develop this project because there is no point of developing WSP as a separate teams.

    Actually I would like to get clear information that we can do whatever we want with this project if Outercurve is not planning to develop it anymore. I'm sure this would kick development of this project forward.

    For now we have a lot of question and no answers for them. I really hope that this will change in near future.

    Only reason that I see why MS has no interest in this project is:

    http://blogs.iis.net/bradleyb/archive/2011/04/12/new-elastic-cloud-services-on-iis.aspx

    which is already tested by:

    http://www.iis.net/previewoffers

    (I wanted to participate too - "We’re in the early stages of working with our partners to help develop elastic cloud offers like these.  If you’d like to be an early adopter feel free to contact me directly at bradleyb@microsoft.com" - but never got response after my email that I'm interested in testing this solution)

    .. and of course no surprise here because bradleyb@microsoft.com is person responsible for WSP in Outercurve.

    P.S. Like I've informed in the fist post under this topic I've also submited a comment under this blog entry:

    http://www.outercurve.org/Blogs/EntryId/32/Answering-your-questions-about-WebsitePanel

    but blog is moderated and so far it has not been published. This whole situation is so annoying and I would never believe that so much people can be so unresponsible.

    Webio, I believe this an invite only opportunity and requires a 6 figure investment.
    Saturday, November 12, 2011 3:41 PM
  • Guys, i've just sent this email to the IIS team leader (Bill Staples). Do i have community support for this? Do you guys want to involve in this discussion?

    Feodor, do you consider this to be a better idea for WSP?

     

    Hi.

    If it is possible i want to have a conversation with you on the phone or email or whatever about the WebsitePanel project and the possibily of the IIS team to take over the leadership of WebsitePanel.

    Why am i asking this?
    After WebsitePanel went open source everything was a joke. No community contrubutions, no updates, no developers working actively on the project, no bug fixes, no support, etc.

    Why do i think it is a good idea for the IIS team to take over WebsitePanel?

    Between IIS and WSP there is a strong connection. The hosting providers might use IIS but all the web hosting customers are using control panels like WSP. Having many features from IIS working better with WSP will make IIS more popular among website owners acros the world.

    So, if you have the time and want to discuss further we can do it anytime.

    Thank you.

    Any word from Bill Staples?
    Saturday, November 12, 2011 3:47 PM
  • I've been watching these two threads about WSP future and I have to say I agree with most of the comments. WSP is not moving forward.

    You cannot expect an active community on an inactive project.

    And I experienced this first hand. I have contributed to other projects too, but WSP simply cannot work with the current situation. I started out with a few changes in WSP code and moved on to extending a provider. Well at least I tried.

    I actually stopped my attempt when I was needed to alter the database. There is no guide on how to introduce new features to the database. How can I share something like that? Will another contribution be incompatible with mine? And what if one day Microsoft wakes up and decides to make a new release and everything I make stops working?

    Since there is no person in charge, no roadmap, no documentation, no builds how could a developer contribute?

    So what we end up is each one of us tracking his own custom code and making reversible additions only just in case we have a new release that won't work on top of it. Of course that limits us in snippets and not actual feature development.

    I don't have much free time either, but if we could make something work count me in.

    Regards.

    PS: webio or echodreamz can anyone please see my last comment on: http://websitepanel.codeplex.com/workitem/41

    Sunday, November 13, 2011 5:25 PM
  • Hey everyone, I wanted to provide a quick update on Microsoft’s contributions back to WSP.  Pavel Tsurbeleu, a developer here at Microsoft who helped with our July release of WSP 1.2.0 will be available in mid-December to help with another release of WSP.  I’ll coordinate with both Feodor and Omar to align our effort with ongoing contributions from the community.   For more information on WSP’s next steps see Feodor’s post here.

    btw:  Both Pavel and I work with Bill Staples and are part of the broader IIS team.    Dan is right on when he says that the IIS team has a vested interest in the success of WSP.  We’re committed to helping the project grow as a community based OSS project and will continue to invest in its success.

    Please make sure the features or issues most important to you are captured in the Issue Tracker database here

    Thanks, Brad.

    Tuesday, November 15, 2011 8:56 PM
  • Hello Brad,

    Thanks for the good news.

    With regards to the Issue Tracker there are a number of issues that need to be combined. How would this be accomplished to get the most accurate votes and comments for the same issue.

    For Example: SmarterMail 8 support the two following issues should be combined:

    http://websitepanel.codeplex.com/workitem/141

    http://websitepanel.codeplex.com/workitem/36

     

     

    Tuesday, November 15, 2011 9:29 PM
  • Hey everyone, I wanted to provide a quick update on Microsoft’s contributions back to WSP.  Pavel Tsurbeleu, a developer here at Microsoft who helped with our July release of WSP 1.2.0 will be available in mid-December to help with another release of WSP.  I’ll coordinate with both Feodor and Omar to align our effort with ongoing contributions from the community.   For more information on WSP’s next steps see Feodor’s post here.

    btw:  Both Pavel and I work with Bill Staples and are part of the broader IIS team.    Dan is right on when he says that the IIS team has a vested interest in the success of WSP.  We’re committed to helping the project grow as a community based OSS project and will continue to invest in its success.

    Please make sure the features or issues most important to you are captured in the Issue Tracker database here

    Thanks, Brad.

    It looks like it was a good thing to start this topic and ping some people at Outercurve :). Quoted message from BradleyB is what I was hoping to achieve.

    Thank you.

    Tuesday, November 15, 2011 10:06 PM
  • Hello Brad,

    Thanks for the good news.

    With regards to the Issue Tracker there are a number of issues that need to be combined. How would this be accomplished to get the most accurate votes and comments for the same issue.

    For Example: SmarterMail 8 support the two following issues should be combined:

    http://websitepanel.codeplex.com/workitem/141

    http://websitepanel.codeplex.com/workitem/36


    Let's set a date to have the workitems scrubbed.  I propose having the list scrubbed before Thanksgiving 11/24.  To help Feodor, Omar and I accomplish this please send us any consolidations that needs to occur.  Any items being worked on by Pavel or a communtiy member will have items in the Issue tracking db assigned to them so it'll be fully transparent what is being worked on.

    Thanks, Brad.

    Wednesday, November 16, 2011 5:42 PM

  • Brad

    Hello Brad,

    Thanks for the good news.

    With regards to the Issue Tracker there are a number of issues that need to be combined. How would this be accomplished to get the most accurate votes and comments for the same issue.

    For Example: SmarterMail 8 support the two following issues should be combined:

    http://websitepanel.codeplex.com/workitem/141

    http://websitepanel.codeplex.com/workitem/36


    Let's set a date to have the workitems scrubbed.  I propose having the list scrubbed before Thanksgiving 11/24.  To help Feodor, Omar and I accomplish this please send us any consolidations that needs to occur.  Any items being worked on by Pavel or a communtiy member will have items in the Issue tracking db assigned to them so it'll be fully transparent what is being worked on.

    Thanks, Brad.

    Bradley,

    I would like to undertake this task if you would agree - i'm anyway going through the issue tracker

    Tuesday, November 22, 2011 1:05 PM
  • Perfect, I already see items being assigned.  Feodor is actively working on several items, and as soon as Pavel is available we'll start working on the other ones.

    Brad.

     

     

    Monday, November 28, 2011 11:04 PM
  • Perfect, I already see items being assigned.  Feodor is actively working on several items, and as soon as Pavel is available we'll start working on the other ones.

    Brad.

     

     

    Hello Bard,

    Really appreciate you keeping us posted on the progress. Feodor has really taken on the tasks at hand, can't wait till Pavel gets more involved.

    Thanks gain, this really make me feel like this project is heading in the right direction. Can' wait for 1.2.1, let us know as soon as you have a projected release date for the beta and final.

    Ramsey

    Monday, November 28, 2011 11:24 PM
  •  

    It seems lately, and really slowly, WSP is coming back. Hope it last 'cause I do like the project ;)

     

    My biggest concern is about the structure of the project as Open Source.

     

    Compared to other projects, I feel crucial things are missing like the following:

     -                  -   Clear direction; group of involve people leading the project.  (more than just one)

     -                -   Money = a transparent financial and cash flow structure. Yes all projects need money to finance it. This project does not even has a donation button/link/banner :( Sure it supposedly be supported by MS or … but none has assigned any dedicated people to it, so money must be raised so it can have:

    o   Active developer (at least 1 full time)

    o   Active tester/contributor (part time or per project)

    o   Active community leader/coordinator (full time)

     

                         -  Partners. This is how I measure/evaluate if an open source is worth to invest some time to adopt it. How many 3 party tools/solutions/products are offered? Are any paid solutions?

     

     

     

    Thanks to all the people working on WSP now. Hope in the project evolves and can keep it on paid staff.

     

    Feodor, thanks for creating the project DotNetPanel… I do hope you stay with WSP now for a long time (if current ‘owners’ let you).. it is your child ;D

     

     

    I do how I had any programming skills to help.

     

    Saturday, December 03, 2011 7:48 PM
  • Hello everybody,

     

    I'm (my team) going to write modules for Lync, CRM 2011 and Exchange 2010 SP2 (nearest plans). We also going to provide good support for these modules as we providing it for current WSP. Modules will not be free, but everybody who can help somehow will get good discounts. Please email me to discuss.


    support@amd-telecom.net | WebsitePanel Installations, Support & Consulting | Enterprise Solutions Planning & Deployment & Support.
    Wednesday, December 28, 2011 5:34 AM
  • It's now been quarter of a year since this topic and apart from a couple of updates in CodePlex to say that a few minor issues are being worked on nothing has happened.

    It seems that WebsitePanel is still dead in the water and about to sink and unless Microsoft pull their finger out and start backing WebsitePanel with either developers or funding then they have bought up the last good Windows Hosting Control Panel, change the name and killed it off. Well done Microsoft another good shot in the foot.

    Microsoft need a decent Windows Hosting Control Panel for it's SPLA service providers and Hosting Partners, otherwise our only option is to move away from Windows Hosting and just offer Linux hosting which has a stack of good control panels.

    Microsoft make enough money from service providers through SPLA, I know we are paying over $1,000, so can they not give more backing to WebsitePanel? It's worth it in the long run for Microsoft as it means they can make more money through SPLA.



    • Edited by webwizuk Tuesday, January 31, 2012 6:02 PM
    Tuesday, January 31, 2012 5:57 PM
  • Brad,

    Are we all dead in the water or not? We need a yes/no true answer.

    Friday, February 03, 2012 12:41 AM
  • It's now been quarter of a year since this topic and apart from a couple of updates in CodePlex to say that a few minor issues are being worked on nothing has happened.

    It seems that WebsitePanel is still dead in the water and about to sink and unless Microsoft pull their finger out and start backing WebsitePanel with either developers or funding then they have bought up the last good Windows Hosting Control Panel, change the name and killed it off. Well done Microsoft another good shot in the foot.

    Microsoft need a decent Windows Hosting Control Panel for it's SPLA service providers and Hosting Partners, otherwise our only option is to move away from Windows Hosting and just offer Linux hosting which has a stack of good control panels.

    Microsoft make enough money from service providers through SPLA, I know we are paying over $1,000, so can they not give more backing to WebsitePanel? It's worth it in the long run for Microsoft as it means they can make more money through SPLA.



    I hear you, and feel your frustration too. However, I'm not so pessimistic, I think the real problem here is communication. If we just had monthly progress reports (a paragraph) and a rough time line for releases from the project leader (e.g. Brad or ?) a lot of anxiety would be alleviated. I do see progress which can be found on some of the coordinators recent activity in CodePlex, especially Feodor's (Good Job Feodor!). Webio as always you Rock! Thanks for your contributions, I know you're trying to run a business too.

    CodePlex Contributors: http://websitepanel.codeplex.com/team/view

    This is how I see WebsitePanel, Microsoft thought by making it open source there would be a flood of contributors, this has proven to be far from what's actually occurring. The developers that are able to make code improvements are either too greedy; don't have the time; or Microsoft has made it too confusing and difficult to contribute.

    On the other hand, I'm in this boat too, as a Mircosoft SPLA partner and not a .net programmer! I'm looking for Microsoft to commit to WebsitePanel and not just through a band aid out every time we complain. I sincerely don't understand what Mircosoft's fear is in fully commuting to WebsitePanel?

    Microsoft, if you're listening, add WebsitePanel to the SPLA program and I'll be happy to pay a reasonable fee if you commit real resources to improving, communicating and releasing timely updates. Else, shame on you for destroying this panel, like Parallels did with Helm.

    On another note, when is WebsitePanel 1.2.1 going to be release? There seems to be enough updates to warrant a tentative beta release date (SSL Fix, SmarterMail 9, MySQL 5.5 support, MS SQL 2012 coming...).
    • Edited by ramseyb Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:48 AM
    Friday, February 03, 2012 2:01 AM
  • On the other hand, I'm in this boat too, as a Microsoft SPLA partner and not a .net programmer! I'm looking for Microsoft to commit to WebsitePanel and not just through a band aid out every time we complain. I sincerely don't understand what Microsoft's fear is in fully committing to WebsitePanel?

    Microsoft, if you're listening, add WebsitePanel to the SPLA program and I'll be happy to pay a reasonable fee if you commit real resources to improving, communicating and releasing timely updates. Else, shame on you for destroying this panel, like Parallels did with Helm. 

    Fully agree with the above.


    Steve
    Fast2host Ltd
    http://www.fast2host.com

    Tuesday, February 07, 2012 11:59 AM
  • I think all the frustration comes from fear we are all going to wake up one day and find Microsoft have panned WSP. If this happens the whole deck of cards will fall quickly and it leaves all us with a real problem. I think we need to get some control over this project, but before I shoot my mouth off I think we need to start looking at numbers. Who is using WSP and how many are using it?

    Then maybe we can go to Microsoft with some proposal and finally establish some real timelines and future for this panel, because if not I warn you that this is heading for the abyss.

    Maybe we need a call to arms? Maybe we should get the control of this ourselves speak to MS (if they will) and assign our own team.

    Nigel

    Tuesday, February 07, 2012 12:29 PM
  • I think all the frustration comes from fear we are all going to wake up one day and find Microsoft have panned WSP. If this happens the whole deck of cards will fall quickly and it leaves all us with a real problem. I think we need to get some control over this project, but before I shoot my mouth off I think we need to start looking at numbers. Who is using WSP and how many are using it?

    Then maybe we can go to Microsoft with some proposal and finally establish some real timelines and future for this panel, because if not I warn you that this is heading for the abyss.

    Maybe we need a call to arms? Maybe we should get the control of this ourselves speak to MS (if they will) and assign our own team.

    Nigel

    The call to arms have been made on numerous times and by numerous people on numerous treads and I dont think that is going to change. I do however feel (hope) there is a parallel project being developed because this isnt sustainable. Like countless have said before me I and WILLING to pay for a good CP that is as flexible as WSP / DNP with all its other inperfections. Maybe (hope again) the chaps at AMD (Dennis) can do something better.

    Reading all through the various treads this included it obvious that quite a few people have attempted to keep things going but seem to hit a brick wall after initial attempts and this include the guys from MS(brad) / Pavel / Paula / Feordo etc. I cannot put my fingers as to where is falls over.

    I would rather MS dropped the product all together and im sure someone else will fill this space quickly.

    For my 2cents.

    Richard

    Tuesday, February 07, 2012 3:32 PM
  • Btw, WebsitePanel 1.2.1 Beta has been released to public: http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/wspdiscuss/thread/5fd4534d-cb45-4ea8-9919-b2519f2f28d5

    Feodor Fitsner

    Tuesday, February 07, 2012 8:30 PM
  • Morning All: I don't know what's happened to Microsoft's interests here.  To a certain extent, they're moot.  This isn't a Microsoft product.  It's an open source project that Microsoft launched.  When the Microsoft project lead was reassigned, Feodor (the original creator of WSP before Microsoft) stepped back in as the development lead and project leader.  This is a good thing because the person that understands more about the code architecture than anyone else is looking after the software.

    I think part of the confusion is that over the past year multiple discussion threads in completely different forums sites exist that don't know about one another, and as Microsoft began its support, many took that thread of discussion as the primary until it went dark.  I've asked Feodor to reorganize the threads of discussion so people know where to go to get information and contribute commentary, support, and software. 

    Microsoft's commitment to WSP has apparently been overwhelmed by a thousand other commitments.  I wouldn't wait for them when you clearly have everything you need here and now around the existing open source project: the software base and the necessary legal rights, the orginal developer/architect and interested commited developers, and clearly interested users and potential customers for the companies that have expressed interest in supporting WSP.  When Microsoft rediscovers its commitment, you can welcome their participation back.

    Feodor has posted that the new beta of WSP 1.2.1 is up.  Outercurve has processed a wave of new contribution license agreements for developers that are (or want to be) contributors.  I think with a little organization you have a very viable project and folks willing to support it commercially. 


    Wednesday, February 08, 2012 6:34 AM
  • Hello Stephen,

    I'm glad that someone finally acknowledges that Microsoft abandoned this ship without any decent warning. That will finally make things clearer.

    I think that most important thing now is to be able to have a roadmap. If we cannot set one now, given a slight number of developers, let users decide or use CodePlex as a reference. Basically, I think we need to know what others are doing before other developers can start any work.

    By the way, could you please tell me what to do sign license agreements to contribute ? Thanks.

    Friday, February 10, 2012 9:49 AM
  • Hello Stephen,

    I'm glad that someone finally acknowledges that Microsoft abandoned this ship without any decent warning. That will finally make things clearer.

    I think that most important thing now is to be able to have a roadmap. If we cannot set one now, given a slight number of developers, let users decide or use CodePlex as a reference. Basically, I think we need to know what others are doing before other developers can start any work.

    By the way, could you please tell me what to do sign license agreements to contribute ? Thanks.

    To get the information about what others are doing I propose the following approach:

    1. We add all contributors to project members at CodePlex, so issues could be assigned to them in Issues Tracker. If developer wants to start doing something he makes his call and I will add him to the project AFTER he signs Contributor License Agreement with Outercurve.

    2. We define a new next release in Issues Tracker. Right now it will be 1.2.2.

    3. All things developer are doing at the moment are assigned to him and next release 1.2.2, thus we could easily see the progress in issue tracker.

    To initiate CLA signing process please send a message to contributors@outercurve.org.


    Feodor Fitsner

    Friday, February 10, 2012 5:07 PM
  • All: I want to be clear.  I did not say Microsoft abandoned WebsitePanel.  I don't work for Microsoft and I can't speak for them.  I merely said their participation is somewhat irrelevant at this point.  As Feodor points out, the Outercurve Foundation handles the legal paperwork for contributions.  I want to emphasize that you don't need a contribution license agreement (CLA) in place to participate.  We really need a CLA in place when a legally significant contribution is going to be committed into the source repositories.  You can code away, fix and submit without a CLA.  If a committer deems your contribution to be legally significant, THEN we can get a CLA in place.  It's all handled electronically via email.  Don't let paperwork get in the way of real work.

    kind regards, stephe

    Friday, February 10, 2012 5:15 PM
  • To get the information about what others are doing I propose the following approach:

    1. We add all contributors to project members at CodePlex, so issues could be assigned to them in Issues Tracker. If developer wants to start doing something he makes his call and I will add him to the project AFTER he signs Contributor License Agreement with Outercurve.

    2. We define a new next release in Issues Tracker. Right now it will be 1.2.2.

    3. All things developer are doing at the moment are assigned to him and next release 1.2.2, thus we could easily see the progress in issue tracker.

    To initiate CLA signing process please send a message to contributors@outercurve.org.


    Feodor Fitsner

    Hello Feodor,

    I agree : that would allow any developer to know what others are doing and track development process. I tried to send a message to that address but it has been refused (relay access denied).

    Best regards.

    Saturday, February 11, 2012 11:25 AM
  • Oh, it's my faul, sorry. The correct one is:

    contributions@outercurve.org


    Feodor Fitsner

    Monday, February 13, 2012 5:09 PM