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whats the difference between kinect xbox 360 sensor and kinect for windows sensor?

    Question

  • hey whats the difference between kinect for windows and kinect xbox 360 sensor..? i know its the same hardware

    i need a klinect for a project ,but kinect xbox 360 sensor is easily available over kinect for windows ,plz help me and tell me if any difference exist in terms of:

    1.drivers and compatibility

    2.for outdoor consitions,what kind of casing will be required


    regards, Yashu kapoor

    Wednesday, March 07, 2012 8:14 PM

Answers

  • The biggest difference is that the Windows kinect is licensed for commercial app distribution, and the 360 one is for dev work only. The Near mode is Windows Kinect only as well, and there's very minor hardware improvements, but nothing big. Both are only designed for indoor use.
    Wednesday, March 07, 2012 8:29 PM

All replies

  • The biggest difference is that the Windows kinect is licensed for commercial app distribution, and the 360 one is for dev work only. The Near mode is Windows Kinect only as well, and there's very minor hardware improvements, but nothing big. Both are only designed for indoor use.
    Wednesday, March 07, 2012 8:29 PM
  • Will probably need some weather resistant material to encase in including the cables but tcqwerty is right you probably shouldn't use kinect outside as it is frail especially the xbox kinect even though it seems to wear and tear sometimes good.

    Another one is the kinect for windows runtime can only be used with the kinect for windows kinect and not the xbox kinect which Im using in v1 for my project for debugging purposes.


    Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. - "Sherlock holmes" "speak softly and carry a big stick" - theodore roosevelt. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering - Yoda


    • Edited by The Thinker Wednesday, March 07, 2012 8:59 PM
    Wednesday, March 07, 2012 8:47 PM
  • To be clear, there's the 1.0 SDK, and the 1.0 runtime. The 1.0 SDK works with both, but requires Visual Studio installed (Visual Studio Express counts.). The runtime doesn't need Visual Studio, but only works with the Windows Kinect.

    Wednesday, March 07, 2012 8:52 PM
  • <p>thanx guyz but the outdoor conditions refers that it will have to work in a dusty environment, it will be in a room with well defined walls with artificial lighting in daylight conditions,without sunlight,&nbsp;</p><p>My concern is will the ir sensor and depth cam will be able to sustain the dusty environment on its own,</p><p>and will any cellophane or plastic glass/mild glass casing will work in case the kinect needs to be protected...</p><p></p><p>thanx in advance... will go for kinect for windows</p>

    regards, Yashu kapoor

    Thursday, March 08, 2012 6:02 AM
  • Kinect for xbox only works for debugging but not in deployment scenarios in which the runtime is used. I would say that as long as you clean the lens on the front of the kinect when it gets somewhat dusty then you should be fine in a dusty enivronment.  As far as outside I would say maybe with a laptop on a sunny day on a porch if you push it but I recommend inside as above for best results when tracking because I dont think the sun was taken into account for using it outside.

    Is it possible the kinect team could provide an attachment for extra money in future to prevent bad glare if someone decided on outside use on a laptop or porch or confined position outside?


    Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. - "Sherlock holmes" "speak softly and carry a big stick" - theodore roosevelt. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering - Yoda


    • Edited by The Thinker Thursday, March 08, 2012 8:27 PM
    Thursday, March 08, 2012 8:26 PM
  • What about the IR laser which Kinect requires to see depth? Last time I tried my IR helicopter outside it just hit the ground :-) What sort of range and tolerance does an IR laser have?

    I don't think it's strong enough... when I tried a pair of those Nyko Zoom goggles for the Kinect (to reduce required play space) it just stopped working altogether due to disruption of Kinects IR visibility (could not see the floor and sight was reduced to small cloud in the middle). Without goggles outside I think the same would occur, the IR would fade away so the robot could not really see much more than a partially blind person :-/

    Did you try it outside, did it work or was it just a fail? I'd really like to know... I got one of those Eddie robots from Parallax and will try myself soon. I'm not too confident that it could roll itself into the garden and continue working on a sunny day. All the YouTube videos about Eddie I've seen are indoors.

    There is that XBOX Mustang car thing, but reading about it suggests the Kinect is just a gimmick to tell people to not sit on the car or advertise XBOX when they walk nearby.

    I think the days of mounting a Kinect on the front and back of a car to do some AI driver assistance are not here yet... A ruggedized unit with powerful (but safe) lasers or radars is required. Or does that XBOX Mustang already drive itself :-)

    Monday, June 04, 2012 12:09 AM
  • Parallex? I have their boe bot myself right now. You can use the kinect service from channel 9's coding for fun website if you need to send signals to a web service or computer service to control the robot manually from computer. You need some math for the robots wheels and im a little rusty programming the boe bot. Please note: kinect cannot be used vertically yet but someone has asked for this as a feature request in next sdk.

    I would have to get a bigger robot but I believe using robotics studios modules for kinect and then extending them is better for robotics projects then just plain programming from scratch. The reason for this is you need to send signals to the robots servo motors to move wheels and for other components on the robot.

    Yes, get kinect for windows and you can use embedded windows 7 (no compact versions are supported) to just make a low budget advanced robot or flying helicopter. Kinect for windows has better support and xbox kinect is only using during debug purposes and I plan myself to get a kinect for windows. 

    Please try using the kinect for windows as range is much better and IR distrubtances are much less compared to xbox kinect.  I plan to use the kinect for windows for my final project at my IT job i have right now so I will see about bugs in the kinect software my-self here real soon. 

    Try having some material cover the IR sensor that allows the IR to pentrate through it to prevent dust build up if having continual use outdoors but kinect was meant for in-door scenarios. You will have to google some material but I found it once but its probably not cheap depends on if you know your materials but the IR laser needs to be able to go though on both sides.


    Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. - "Sherlock holmes" "speak softly and carry a big stick" - theodore roosevelt. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering - Yoda. Blog - http://jefferycarlsonblog.blogspot.com/

    Monday, June 04, 2012 10:00 PM
  • @Thinker - have you tried it outdoors then? My experiment with the clear lens of the Nyko Zoom had such a negative impact on the range I really doubt any kind of overlay would work well with Kinect. Hopefully it works out for him... something like the Formula 1 racing cars have over their cameras, a rotating cover which self-cleans, a bit a like a Japanese toilet seat :-)

    And maybe you need to check the specs... Because reading the current FAQ on the Kinect SDK site and various other posts/forums confirms the hardware is the SAME. But you said that the IR has a longer range on the Kinect PC edition... do you know something we don't? Where did you get that information if it is correct / can we have a copy? MS should really make a proper spec sheet including optical configuration/motor capabilities side by side with XBOX and PC Kinect.

    Reading the FAQ from MS tells us that the only difference between the hardware is:

    1) Firmware update allowing it to see NEARER (not FURTHER). What a bummer, come on free up the goods MS! You should have the same firmware on all devices. Man I really hate that the XBOX cannot see nearer and the dodgy 3rd party Zoom attachments don't work. You should update the XBOX just to keep your gamers happy. Don't hold back just to force a few of us geek programmers and specialist companies to buy the PC version!

    2) Software license to sell/rent as a finished solution. But not required for development, just recommended (to support near mode of course). I guess the customer pays then :-) but it would be a waste for hobbyists. PC version is twice the price! 109 euro for XBOX Kinect with power/USB adapter currently, 86 without power supply (HitFox.de) for Eddie (which has it's own USB and battery adapter), but 200 for PC version! Over twice the price, and you can't even use it back on the XBOX either!

    3) A shorter USB cable.... oh come on that's really a notable hardware spec!?!

    Luckily the official Robotics Development Studio 4 RTM reference platform "Eddie" robot from Parallax was developed before RTM (of course) so is targeted for XBOX (not PC) Kinect. An example that it is not required for working solutions. I guess you would only need the PC edition if you wanted to SELL a built Eddie to somebody else. But for development, all is okay.

    Some other guy managed to build an Eddie cheaper from an old hospital PC trolley and a wheelchair. Apparently the major thing here is the Windows service allowing communication with the existing Parallax boards. There is also information how to solder-up your own Kinect battery adapter, or you could order the nicely finished one from Parallax.

    So what other reasons there then for hobbyists? Apart from MS holding back a firmware update. Why get the PC Kinect when the hardware is indeed the same and the near mode is not really necessary? For example, a robot roaming about does not need to see so near because it will have something like PING sensors for that.

    So far I can only see commercial development or plans for desktop (near) usage as a reason to get the PC Kinect. Unless it really does see more (in hardware not just firmware) then for me it just doesn't justify the price. The average self-made robot/outdoor educational project doesn't need it then. If it weren't for the license, it wouldn't be needed for most display stand/exhibition/customer interaction projects either.

    This would all have been a lot easier if MS just make the Kinect PC the SAME price as the Kinect XBOX, and established a separate commission or license for sale of finished products. Then they could have rolled out better firmware to XBOX users and not have to invent silly reasons why one is better than the other.

    If this is wrong, then excuse me... But then we need an official MS technical datasheet, including the IR ranges and effective luminescence, etc... @Thinker - if you know more then how about putting this together and also quoting your sources. Actually going to fill-in the Wikipedia page for Kinect would be the best for that.

    In fact there it states... The sensing range of the depth sensor is adjustable, and the Kinect software is capable of automatically calibrating the sensor based on gameplay and the player's physical environment, accommodating for the presence of furniture or other obstacles.

    Also following the reference states further that up to 48 points can be tracked. So I don't know why we should be excited about a 10 point skeleton in the new SDK version.

    Hmm... something is not right here and only the MS Kinect hardware developers can tell us for sure, if they are allowed to ;-)

    I just bought another XBOX Kinect for my robot, plus a PC USB adapter. Before I build the Eddie I will play with the SDK using the XBOX Kinect. Then I know if I missed anything. Then I will build my Eddie and tell it to go drive itself into the garden on a sunny day, then see what happens. Will take a month or two though. Would be nice to know if anyone else does this first!

    It's highly likely I get a PC Kinect to support the Eddie development, and I must say I thought twice about getting a PC Kinect for the Eddie (just to have everything the same). But when the firmware is the only difference twice the price is just too much. I paid just 86 euro for the Eddie (XBOX) Kinect!!! :-)



    • Edited by Code Chief Monday, June 04, 2012 11:43 PM
    Monday, June 04, 2012 11:29 PM
  • It says that info in depth range tutorials on channel 9 and their are some from v1 SDK readme and a general discussion thread too. Yes its barely an improvement once you find the specifications but range is a little more. I helped someone with finding a special filter that allows IR to see through it for stage application so im guessing with proper application of the filter it can be used (as you know a bright stage is the same as a bright sun sometimes but not always). The filter was a weird make and model but can google and post back here. I will be using Kinect for 3d importation with reconstructme soon. I plan on working with akiras motion which can help animate models by importing bone animations.

    Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. - "Sherlock holmes" "speak softly and carry a big stick" - theodore roosevelt. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering - Yoda. Blog - http://jefferycarlsonblog.blogspot.com/


    • Edited by The Thinker Tuesday, June 05, 2012 12:04 AM
    Monday, June 04, 2012 11:55 PM
  • For final use with filter do not use Xbox Kinect but I need to test my app myself on Kinect for windows but I would have busted contested with me to improve Xbox Kinect because their was not much hardware differences except near mode and a little difference in distance.

    Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. - "Sherlock holmes" "speak softly and carry a big stick" - theodore roosevelt. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering - Yoda. Blog - http://jefferycarlsonblog.blogspot.com/

    Tuesday, June 05, 2012 12:07 AM
  • Thanks for the info. It seems like you do indeed have a lot of experience with it already then. You might find this interesting, I just found an official post from MS explaining the near mode sensitivity including measurements and a comment about why it is not available on the XBOX Kinect:

    http://blogs.msdn.com/b/kinectforwindows/archive/2012/01/20/near-mode-what-it-is-and-isn-t.aspx?CommentPosted=true#commentmessage

    Unfortunately they still do not explicitly say the hardware is different. To the contrary, they say again (as on the MS Kinect website FAQ) that the lenses are the same. New here is information that the Kinect PC team really tried to get it working on the XBOX Kinect, but there were issues.

    If the Kinect testing team had quoted real hardware issues as the reason to hold back near mode, that could be understood. But they just talk about are production line (testing) logistics. The only other issue they talk about is near mode reducing longer range sensitivity, but that's fine when you want near mode! In that case, just let the user switch it on or off depending on their setup/room size... add a setting to the Kinect options then everyone's happy.

    Ok we can't change that. Maybe the product managers at MS want to hold back features to help sell Kinect 2 with XBOX 720, who knows...

    So at this time, the fact is (and I don't like to say this) that we really should have Kinect PC devices (and pay twice the price for potentially the same hardware). Hopefully my robot will be okay with the Kinect XBOX sensor as it was designed for it originally. The PING sensors should stop it hitting a wall and Kinect was only added to the robot to see people not surfaces. I would have been happier knowing I had the same "near mode" capability on the robot as the PC where I will do development for it.

    Then I will indeed have to buy a Kinect PC sensor for my "on-the-desk" development (preparing code to download to the robot). Hopefully there are no limitations when developing with Kinect for PC but targeting the XBOX sensor at runtime, except not being able to switch to near mode. I plan to make it adjust with standard .NET configuration settings (at runtime) or compiler variables (if must be done at compile time). Don't know yet just getting started....


    • Edited by Code Chief Wednesday, June 06, 2012 8:03 AM
    Wednesday, June 06, 2012 8:01 AM
  • So at this time, the fact is (and I don't like to say this) that we really should have Kinect PC devices (and pay twice the price for potentially the same hardware). Hopefully my robot will be okay with the Kinect XBOX sensor as it was designed for it originally. The PING sensors should stop it hitting a wall and Kinect was only added to the robot to see people not surfaces. I would have been happier knowing I had the same "near mode" capability on the robot as the PC where I will do development for it.

    I agree completely because people have asked for static and non-human object tracking/targeting before a few times but not much yet. Someone asked on the 2.0 kinect sdk feedback thread I started (not for major bugs which need a new thread started) about raw depth tracking do you think that would work or object tracking? VM support is being worked on but will be available soon for the kinect too. So when VM support comes I do not have to worry about my main computer messing up and you could test your kinect app without it breaking other apps or you can do quick mass distribution.

      


    Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. - "Sherlock holmes" "speak softly and carry a big stick" - theodore roosevelt. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering - Yoda. Blog - http://jefferycarlsonblog.blogspot.com/



    • Edited by The Thinker Wednesday, June 06, 2012 12:09 PM
    Wednesday, June 06, 2012 12:08 PM
  • Finally found some pictures showing the lenses of both Kinect PC and XBOX sensors side by side. You were right Thinker, and... surprisingly the Microsoft FAQ is wrong! They stated the lenses were the same, but look they are completely different!

    http://www.winsupersite.com/article/developer/kinect-windows-142223

    One other (actually positive) point of note is the rather un-professional use of duct-tape to fix the original XBOX connector to the power adapter. At least that means it can be pulled off for use in mobile (robot/car/battery) solutions. I hope that doesn't void my warranty especially at these prices :-/

    If MS corrected the FAQ it would be clear that the hardware is different. Then I believe more developers would be happy to shell out the extra money, confident they were actually going to get better hardware not just tweaked firmware.

    Thursday, June 07, 2012 7:17 PM
  • what is difference between xbox kinect and windows kinect any one..pls...urgent guys....
    Thursday, December 06, 2012 6:29 AM
  • The Microsoft answer is indeed correct, they are not just trying to sell the more expensive Kinect for Windows.

    For the average developer though that means IMHO:

    * Playing with Kinect SDK or low budget development of standing (far/normal mode) apps = XBOX Kinect.

    * Seated (near mode) or professional development = Kinect for Windows.

    If you get the XBOX Kinect don't forget you need a cheap USB+power adapter (try Amazon) and should you go commercial when you finish your app your customers must buy Kinect for Windows to be correctly licensed.


    Key Artefacts




    • Edited by Code Chief Thursday, December 06, 2012 8:31 AM
    Thursday, December 06, 2012 8:22 AM
  • Code Chief the way to get Kinect for windows for $150 is to be a student or buy it as an educational institution with a PO(Purchase Order). I do not know if the pricing will change anytime soon. I will have to post the link but its floating around in the Kinect blogs somewhere.  I wish to buy a Kinect for windows after I get my current Kinect multipoint project finished.

    Code Chief: I have a nice project Iam in the last stages of that maps a Kinect to multiple mouse devices and will upload a new source code compilation soon. You can support it if you wish here by making your own code changes or visiting every few weeks for new code: http://kinectmultipoint.codeplex.com. Note for anyone interested: Can be changed for another device if you wish but need to know technical hardware details of device like report descriptors and such.  I have gotten capped off a 40 virtual mouse devices because anything over that might crash someone's computer and 40 kids are not going to be in a typical classroom.


    Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. - "Sherlock holmes" "speak softly and carry a big stick" - theodore roosevelt. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering - Yoda. Blog - http://www.computerprofessions.co.nr

    Thursday, December 06, 2012 7:38 PM
  • P.S. you can use Kinect outdoors but it has little help to shield against the sun which interferes with proper operation. I suggest techniques like the Kinect parallel to the sun so the sun is not pointing directly into the sensor. I equate that the same as looking at the sun with my human eyes too long.

    Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. - "Sherlock holmes" "speak softly and carry a big stick" - theodore roosevelt. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering - Yoda. Blog - http://www.computerprofessions.co.nr

    Thursday, December 06, 2012 7:40 PM
  • Hi Thinker. The mouse project sounds cool. It's sounds like what I thought should have been made by MS and shipped with Windows 8 along with a cheaper (~50$) sensor like the Leap Motion (actually better for near mode).

    Besides the Leap Motion bunch, ASUS have also entered the market with their Xtion sensors. But unfortunately lost their potential at the start by coming in at a much too high price point and with less hardware. Their only competitive sensor is their lesser model which although only does depth data and costs the same as an XBOX Kinect, doesn't appear to have any license restrictions.

    At least the Xtion is also proven to have better depth penetration. Somebody compared it with Kinect at trying to look through tinted glass for (waterproof) outdoor operation. The Kinect failed when the Xtion was okay. From what I gather, neither were perfect.

    The competition is there, Kinect v1.x is starting to get old and next-next generation XBOXs are on the horizon (meaning Kinect v2 according to rumours). That's even more reason not to waste any extra money on Kinect for Windows unless you need near mode or are going into production/professional development.

    I've got both devices and tested them in my own side-by-side comparisons indoors. I'll be fully testing outdoor capabilities in spring and will make the results public. Of course looking into the sun is no valid use case, that's not even considered with an optical based solution.

    But operation IN sunlight at ANY horizontal rotation IS an acceptable requirement. Only sunset/sunrise could be given as a technological limitation. The issue is clearly optics so only way around it for sure is to use a different sensor technology approved for general public usage.

    That begs the question; are there any publicly safe alternative technologies with the same 3D depth mapping capability? I'll be looking into that too and will share my findings.

    On the positive side, Kinect is great for indoor and semi-outdoor use and there are tons of potential solutions. But maybe save your cash to start with by "jumping in" with just an XBOX Kinect. Upgrade to something better and properly priced later (from any manufacturer). Another bonus is you can use the XBOX version to play games on a console after you upgrade.


    Key Artefacts


    • Edited by Code Chief Friday, December 07, 2012 1:04 AM
    Friday, December 07, 2012 1:02 AM