locked
Windows Phone Dev Account Suspended - Will Payout still occur? - Part 4

    Question

  • As Part 2 & 3 were deleted by Microsoft, and Eric D likes to lock my threads, here is part 4 and a link to Part 1 is here http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/wpapps/en-US/fee06ad6-93f9-42f8-93ce-02e8fe0a85a4/windows-phone-dev-account-suspended-will-payout-still-occur

    Huyn me, my account was suspended because I had some applications that opened up a website and that website contained links to porn sites.

    I asked for clarification surrounding the policy regarding adult content however the Windows Phone Legal team ignored me mostly, and when they did bother to reply (usually through a third party like a support staff member) they instead changed the wording of the policy to suit them and were not open to any discussion whatsoever. They changed words like "contains" to "directs to" which both have very different meanings, because it suited them to alter the policy on the fly however they see fit.

    It seems that I made the WP Legal team look silly and they took offence and as a result decided to ignore and then eventually suspend me, even after me emailing them and saying I was willing to work with them rather than against them.....to which I never received a response.

    Note that Microsoft can and will just make policy up to remove you, but ultimately they don't need a reason to remove your apps, it is written in the APA that "Microsoft reserves the right to remove any Application from the Windows Phone Marketplace for any reason or no reason". You may find the APA that all developers agree too here: http://cmsresources.windowsphone.com/devcenter/en-us/legal/Windows-Phone-Marketplace-Application-Provider-Agreement.pdf

    They seem pretty quick and keen to exercise that clause....instead of work with you.

    Once they have suspended your dev account, any time you lodge a support ticket with legitimate questions such as will I be payed out the sales I had before account suspension, how do I access my app download history, Is there a way I can return my account to good standing etc, they just go ahead and close your support tickets without even the courtesy of a response (it doesn't tell you the ticket is closed either you have to go and look).

    Further more, once your account is suspended, you cannot edit your information INCLUDING the bank account that app payouts are made to, so if you change bank you cannot receive app payouts anymore.

    You also are locked out of any and all reporting, so you can no longer see your previous app sales, so you just have to take it on Microsoft's "good faith" that they are going to pay you out what you are owed.

    This newly created helper class account (Probably a Microsoft created account attempting to discredit me) cannot possibly know what I was suspended for and is wrong, unless they work for Microsoft of course but either way they are still wrong, the above reason is why my account was suspended.

    After hassling the wpdev page on facebook, I was FINALLY given a response saying I will be payed out all but about $500 of what I'm believe I'm owed (I'm assuming that there is yet to be cleared payments that will come later on?), however they are ignoring my question about editing the bank account that the payout occurs to, as it is locked and if one needed to change bank account they cannot after suspension (so if that account no longer exists, how does one receive payout? and support just wants to close any requests for support on you because you are suspended so it isn't likely that they will help you).

    I keep this information here so other developers can understand the experience they can expect if they ever get suspended. It will likely be deleted by Microsoft however I shall keep reposting and the Part number will be incremented each time so you can see just how many times Microsoft have attempted to quell my speech!



    • Edited by الله Friday, July 19, 2013 12:45 AM
    Thursday, July 18, 2013 10:49 PM

All replies

  • Honestly dude, your continues nagging and disregard to procedure is why you are getting so little help.
    Now i am speaking on behalf of myself and myself alone, i used to work in IT Support and other areas similar to the kind of people you are talking too, and if i was appointed your case, i would make your life very very difficult, again speaking for myself here!

    You are getting nowhere with this attitude, and the whole point you are fighting for. Adult content in an App, be it links or not, is still pretty damn absurd and pity, we all know that it's not allowed anyway, be it described in detail or not, you can hardly be shocked by this!
    When you start stroking the people who can help you the wrong way, you will be stuck in a infinite loop of the waiting game true me here!

    Looking forward to part 5-6-7-8-Infinate, since this will only be locked again, you will only be perceived as a nusense and good luck on getting that payout!

    And no i am not hired by Microsoft to "discredit" you!
    Thursday, July 18, 2013 11:43 PM
  • Honestly dude, your continues nagging and disregard to procedure is why you are getting so little help.

    Incorrect, I was receiving very little help from day 1, they would reject certifications and when you try and communicate with them it is pointless. It's all one way, even when they are completely wrong there is no way to chat with them about it and support was equally as painfully slow and useless.

    Now i am speaking on behalf of myself and myself alone, i used to work in IT Support and other areas similar to the kind of people you are talking too, and if i was appointed your case, i would make your life very very difficult, again speaking for myself here!

    Well then that reflects pretty poorly on you. Just because you are a support person in between the legal team and the customer doesn't mean you should "take sides" and start ignoring the customer. Sure, it happens....but it shouldn't and that is the whole point (of which you seem to be missing).

    You are getting nowhere with this attitude, and the whole point you are fighting for. Adult content in an App, be it links or not, is still pretty damn absurd and pity, we all know that it's not allowed anyway, be it described in detail or not, you can hardly be shocked by this!

    Huh? I'm not fighting to be allowed Adult Content? I don't care about that now (That app is gone, not coming back etc). They obviously don't want links to porn sites, that's fine if they put that in the policy, but when I'm told an app is removed because it breaches policy 3.6, all I ask is that I am told how it breaches policy, not have the policy re-worded. If they communicate with me and say "Hey yea the policy is a bit ambiguous but we don't want links to porn sites" then that is fine, but they didn't...the lack of communication is the most frustrating thing about it all...instead they (Via a caught in the middle support rep WEEKS later, couldn't even directly respond) said my app "directs to" adult content and therefore breaches the policy that clearly says "contains". Now why bother having a policy and even worse, refer to the policy when removing an app, if you can't even explain properly how it breaches the policy? Is it ok to then proceed to alter the wording of the policy to attempt to justify the removal of the app? I'm not saying that it should be ok to have links to adult sites, I'm saying the policy didn't prohibit it and they couldn't and still haven't shown me where in the policy they cited, that it says as much!

    But this post was not so much about that, it is more about what happens when your account is suspended, your account is locked and you get ignored. No matter what the circumstances is it ok to just ignore someone like that?

    Looking forward to part 5-6-7-8-Infinate, since this will only be locked again, you will only be perceived as a nusense and good luck on getting that payout!

    Locked I don't care to much about as I've said what I needed to say.....however to delete on the other hand.....

    Did you read what I said? They have responded and said I am getting all but $500 of my payout this month and I stated this (Shows how much you read into it)

    And no i am not hired by Microsoft to "discredit" you!

    You also don't have an account created just now with the first post being a reply to this thread......

    • Edited by الله Friday, July 19, 2013 12:41 AM adding
    Thursday, July 18, 2013 11:57 PM
  • Happy you were able to get 500$, but after reading the full text, I see you made a mistake when booking a pornographic link in your application. It will promote users using your application but it violated the laws of Microsoft, thank you for sharing, it will be a lesson for developers
    • Edited by Huyn me Friday, July 19, 2013 5:09 AM error
    Friday, July 19, 2013 5:08 AM
  • If you applied logic to the problem from the start, you would not had been suspended in the first place.
    There is a reason why Windows Phone isn't filled with Sex Apps, they aren't allowed and most of us figured that out pretty easily.

    Yet you dwell in details finding loopholes in policy statements to suit your need, no wonder you ended up how you did.

    And i did read your message, i had quite the laugh with Part 1, 2, 3 and now 4, and the good luck on the payment part, was more of a you should be glad you ended up with anything at all.
    Might i suggest moving to the Android platform? As I've heard Apple doesn't like sex either in their apps.
    Friday, July 19, 2013 9:46 AM
  • The 3.6 policy sates: (And More!)
    "Content that a reasonable person would consider to be adult or borderline adult content"

    To me this is pretty damn clear than anything that would show any kind of sexual stuff is forbidden in apps, and then i apply stable normal logic to it "Hmm that properly means that linking to sex sites is also forbidden" 

    I guess to you it probably would be because you failed to note the header which says:

    "Your app must not contain any of the following:"

    Then add your dot point 

    • Content that a reasonable person would consider to be adult or borderline adult content (images, text, video or audio).

    The app did not contain anything that a reasonable person would consider to be adult or borderline adult content. It contained a WebBrowser control with a link and I can change what Web Site is viewed by that link at any time (Remotely changing the DNS record). The google site I chose to display had links to adult sites, but a site on google sites has to adhere to goggle's terms of service, not Microsoft's App content policy. As far as I am concerned, my app "contains" what is bundled in the XAP. (There were not even links to porn sites in the XAP) and the site itself is not adult content (Merely had links "directing to" adult content).

    To say my app contained adult content would be like saying An app that opens this forum thread in a web browser control and then someone posts a porn link here on this thread, that the app now contains adult content .... errrrr ..... no ...... so perhaps you may like to rethink your logic.

    When presented with this, the Legal team (through a third person, they never responded directly) decided that my app "directs to" adult content therefore it "contains" adult content, but directing to and containing are not even remotely close in definition.

    Yes sure, my app did direct to adult content, not a claim I'd refute, however directs to and contains are not one and the same, if they don't want websites that DIRECT TO adult content then they should say that in the policy. My app packaged and submitted contained zero adult content and so as I said, if they said hey yea the policy is about having zero tolerance on porn blah blah blah then fine, but to bend the policy and change the wording.....that's just not right!







    • Edited by الله Friday, July 19, 2013 12:54 PM edit
    Friday, July 19, 2013 12:18 PM
  • I give up, and not in the "I agree you are right and have a point"
    But in a "You are giving me a headache".

    Heres the point i like to get across, just think about those thoundens of apps that would come out if Directing to porn sites was allowed. "Top 10 greatest videos on Pornhub/xhamster/etc".
    And after this small discussion i would like to send a personal "thank you" to the team keeping your apps out of the store...

    Try and have a pleasant day.
    Friday, July 19, 2013 12:30 PM

  • Heres the point i like to get across, just think about those thoundens of apps that would come out if Directing to porn sites was allowed. "Top 10 greatest videos on Pornhub/xhamster/etc".
    And after this small discussion i would like to send a personal "thank you" to the team keeping your apps out of the store...

    Where have I said that they must allow directing to porn? I am just saying that their current policy doesn't prohibit it when you apply it to my scenario. I don't know why you are raging at me for an inefficiency in their policy?

    Again (I obviously have to spell things out for you) I'm not saying that they should let porn content be on the store, I'm saying that if the policy is such that an app can't "direct to" that content, the policy needs to be updated to specify that.... I made an app that was tailored to the policy, just because you feel that something shouldn't be on the store for whatever reason, doesn't automatically mean that it can't be there. As I said, "contains" is not "directs to" so you still have not shown me how it breached policy, so thats fine, I'm not going to loose any sleep that you are happy that my apps are not on the store .... in fact i care nothing what you think at all because you have shown that you speak purely on the basis of "I believe the store should not have this content in it" .... which really, who cares what you think should be on the store? ... not me!



    • Edited by الله Friday, July 19, 2013 1:02 PM edit
    Friday, July 19, 2013 12:46 PM