WP7 Socket Support

Question

  I think many agree that we need socket support in System.Net for Windows Phone 7. I was starting to write a nice article about printing from the Windows Phone 7 (for business application at some point users will need to print something and they could use wireless network printers as bluetooth support was never fully implemented in Compact Framework). It is frustrating as the class System.Net.Sockets is fully implemented on the library inside the emulator (mscorlib.dll ver 3.7) but it's "crippled" in mscorlib (ver 2.0.5)  from the development tools and the security model won't allow you to access the class even if it's there.

 

Please enable Socket programming in the next release (for you it's just a matter of enabling the functionality as it's already there)

 

 

Answer 1

This topic has been done to death. We don't need yet another thread about it.

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Answer 2

    I searched the forum and found only 5 topics on Socket and none of it explains why Microsoft doesn't enable functionality that is already there, developed, available but locked by the security model. Why not enable it? (the iPhone has socket support and it is possible to print). For business (WP7 it's not only for consumer but also for business) applications how do you print something?

Answer 3

Including this one I find 7 using the the plural form, 4  using the singular which looks like 9 all together (note: I'm adding sets, not numbers).

I'm with Jim. It seems to be a topic that won't die and will probably continue to come up many more times.  The merits of being able to use sockets are well known for now it looks that Web Services are the way to go on WP7S.

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Joel Ivory Johnson | http://www.j2i.net

It takes all the running you can do to stay in one place.If you want to get somewhere else,you must try to run at least twice as fast as that.

Answer 4

none of it explains why Microsoft doesn't enable functionality that is already there, developed, available but locked by the security model.

You partly explained it yourself I think - security. I'd guess that the other part of it would be that there hasn't been time to ensure that exposing that functionality won't compromise the user experience. MS isn't going to expose functionality that they're not sure isn't ready for prime time.

For business (WP7 it's not only for consumer but also for business) applications how do you print something?

Yes, it's not just for consumer only, but that is the main focus. How many regular consumers print from a phone? I'd bet it's less than 1%. That's just not a good enough reason to try to fit in functionality given everything else that has to be done in a short time.  

It's not that MS doesn't want to give developers tools, it's that there just plain isn't enough time to allow everything in the initial release. There's two choices - work with what you have or go elsewhere. Me, I'm quite happy with what they're giving us.

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Answer 5

You partly explained it yourself I think - security.

It's probably worth noting that on the desktop version of Silverlight whole ports are supported they must fall within a certain range and the destination machine must have a client access policy allowing it.

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Joel Ivory Johnson | http://www.j2i.net

It takes all the running you can do to stay in one place.If you want to get somewhere else,you must try to run at least twice as fast as that.

Answer 6

Lose the attitude please.  This is an important issue that deserves to be beaten to death until MS actually includes it in the framework.

Socket support is a huge component of a lot of applications that developers would like to write.

At the very least, get us some net.tcp support in WCF.

Thank you,

Arash

Answer 7

 Can you explain why socket functionality could compromise the user experience?How socket and database support affect UI? For a developer it's very frustrating to know that the functionality it's there implemented and the only thing that Microsoft has to do is to take out the tag  [FrameworkVisibilitySilverlightInternal, SecuritySafeCritical] and let the developers use it. The same thing with database support: it's there, Microsoft uses it, it's the same engine that you've used it since Sql Server 2000 CE and it's stable but Microsoft won't let the developers use it. It's absurd! (personal opinion)

For printing at business level I think that almost 40% of applications use it in some form. At consumer level I think users would appreciate the ability to print their photos directly to a wireless/bluetooth printer.

WP7S it's a very nice platform, but you are restricting the wrong users: developers. Just have a look at mozilla: they announce that they cannot continue to develop on WP platform and a week after they have an Android beta, WebIS, Resco like the platform but a lot of their successful programs won't be ported, Skype quitted, Adobe not cause you give them the privilege to access what other developers cannot. It's not the right moment to lose developers (not even a small part).

 

 

 

 

Answer 8

Lose the attitude please.  This is an important issue that deserves to be beaten to death until MS actually includes it in the framework.

There's no attitude. Continuing to create threads about the topic is not productive and will not force MS to do something any quicker then they're planning to do it (if they're even planning it). They're already aware of the opinion of developers on this and other topics (database functionality).

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Answer 9

Hello Dan Dan,

We are well aware that Sockets are a big want. As a reminder, this release is not targeted to business users so printing is also not a priority. I absolutely agree Sockets are a must eventually, but they are not exposed for this release.

While I understand you frustration that this decision has not been explained to your satisfaction, the fact is that sockets are not supported this release which should be all the information you need to to make development decisions for your plans on this platform.

 

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Dan Reagan | Microsoft | Windows Phone 7 Series Support

Answer 10

I am a developer and understand very well why Microsoft can't have everything in the first release, but some of the responses here by MS Employees, MVPs or Moderators is plain rude -

"...work with what you have or go elsewhere", how can you say that? maybe you should have said that when we started investing lots of money and time in the .NET Framework, and by elsewhere do you mean Apple? well keep replying so rudely and we will hear you.

Answer 11

Does "this release" mean that I still can't use socket in the initial release of WP7 device on market?

Answer 12

Right - socket support for developers will not be in v1 of Windows Phone 7.

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Ginny Caughey
Device Application Development MVP

 

 

Answer 13

I don't think anybody intended to be rude to you. Some popular features simply won't be in the first release version of Windows Phone 7, and socket support is one of them. If your app needs socket support and you don't have any alternative that is available, then you should consider Windows Mobile 6.5. If you do decide to take this course, you can structure your app so the business logic can be reused in a future release version of Windows Phone 7. Here is a case study of an app designed for WM 6.5 that was ported to WM7, mainly by changing the UI: http://blog.markarteaga.com/GoingFromWindowsPhone65ToWindowsPhone7.aspx

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Ginny Caughey
Device Application Development MVP

 

 

Answer 14

I am a developer and understand very well why Microsoft can't have everything in the first release, but some of the responses here by MS Employees, MVPs or Moderators is plain rude -

"...work with what you have or go elsewhere", how can you say that? maybe you should have said that when we started investing lots of money and time in the .NET Framework, and by elsewhere do you mean Apple? well keep replying so rudely and we will hear you.

I can understand being frustrated over a much wanted feature, but I think Dan's answered the "question". At this stage it's not in, and that is outside the control of everyone who's tried to help in this thread. To quote the wise - it's just the way things are.

I undertstand printing is an important function. You could consider a centralised printing service in the interim. This is easily accomplished with messaging to a service.

Answer 15

Amazing...

Socket won't be supported in WP7 1.0, what a stun !

My question not why but more how ? How can MS create an framework designed for connected applications WITHOUT sockets ?

I'm so disappointed.

 

Answer 16

I don't want to push anyone's buttons, but I do want to add my opinion.

 

For my app there are no realistic alternatives but sockets.  My company has shelved the Windows platform and I'm stuck working on BlackBerry until critical features such as sockets and direct access to camera video are added in.

I wouldn't mind working on Windows Mobile in the meanwhile, but the people upstairs figured out that if there are no new Windows Mobile devices being manufactured, then the Windows Mobile Market is dead.  Right or wrong, that is the stance at the company I work for.

This is kind of like the old story of the pig and the chicken discussing the issue of bacon and eggs for breakfast.  For the chicken, there's no "skin" in the game.  For the pig, it's a life or death issue.  The pigs are the developers who can't make things work on Windows Phone 7 without sockets.

I understand that there are priorities and sockets didn't make the list.

However, it would be really great if Microsoft could give us some hope--there has been nothing but silence regarding the Windows Mobile platform, so that is essentially a dead platform. 

Saying that sockets will come "sometime" doesn't really convince anyone in management at the company I work at.

Answer 17

However, it would be really great if Microsoft could give us some hope--there has been nothing but silence regarding the Windows Mobile platform, so that is essentially a dead platform. 

I wouldn't expect to hear anything on the features to be added until after the launch. The Microsoft employees tend not to speak on the details of unannounced software and I wouldn't expect Microsoft to say much about an official feature set of forthcoming updates until after version 1 makes it to the market. 

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Joel Ivory Johnson | http://www.j2i.net | Device Application Development MVP

It takes all the running you can do to stay in one place.If you want to get somewhere else,you must try to run at least twice as fast as that.

Answer 18

Yes, sockets+pinvoke+native dlls. We will not target win7 at work w/o support for above mentioned items.

bob

 

Answer 19

LOL! I hope you have a magazine.

You are going to be waiting a long time for p/invoke or native DLL's.

They won't even let us do unsafe code. Even XNA on the Xbox 360 allowed unsafe.

All I want is Sockets, unsafe code, access to the video camera, a compass API, a gyroscope and the ability to write custom shaders - not necessarily in that order. I'll settle for sockets and unsafe code :)

I agree with the OP though, it is kind of retarded that socket support is missing from the first version and we are forced to use WCF.

You would have thought WCF was layered on Socket itself. One can only speculate the reasons for releasing WCF first and I don't like the path down which my mind strolls.  Saying that security is the reason is a poor explanation.  What, I'm going to download a virus or be able to hack into a mainframe just because I have sockets - I think not.

I also agree that the MVP's came on too strong. Seems like a sensitive subject. All that needed be said is something along the lines of "Hey XYZ, you are among good friends wishing for Socket support. From what we gather, this support is slated for a future version. Thanks!"

Well here's to what we *can* do right now....

Cheers!!!

Answer 20

While this is not quite what this subject is about, here in Michigan our Michigan Silverlight User Group just had a topic that addresses similar (while not the same issues) issues when implementing SOA in silverlight, seems like some of this topic might help.. I'll see if anyone has the powerpoint of the guy using it.. A lot of the topic was very relavent to the WP7/Silverlight situation..

Event Details

Title:	MI Silverlight Users Group
Start:	8/19/2010 6:30:00 PM
End:	8/19/2010 8:00:00 PM
Description:	High Performance SOA with Silverlight and Web Sockets. Service Oriented Architecture (SOA) is proving to be the choice of many looking to bring their client server applications onto the web. And for good reason; it enforces contracts and interfaces allowing developers to repurpose their existing business logic code into web services, while UI code can be rewritten for the web in platforms like Silverlight. But this flexibility and reuse can come at a cost, because latency between the client code running in a web browser, and the service code running on a web server, can often be very high; especially for messages originating in the server. During this talk we will be examining some options when traditional polling strategies fall short, and demonstrating the use of an unlikely hero: HTML5 Web Sockets.
Website:	http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=14674190049&ref=ts
Address:	206 South 5th Ave. Ann Arbor, MI, 48104
iCalendar:	Add to Calendar

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Don Burnett

Answer 21

Great, I just spend 2 hours googling on Sockets for WP7...................

Answer 22

The current version of Windows Phone 7 doesn't support sockets for 3rd party developers.

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Ginny Caughey
Windows Phone Development MVP