Someone still working as MSFT or just celebrating Win7?

Question

It's about a month now that the Marketplace is available but still there are many problems and none of them was fixed in the meantime. Some problems are even reported much earlier but still have not been fixed yet.
It looks as if all MSFT employees are partying because of the great Windows 7 start and forgot that their most critical child needs so many help now . Bloggers/critics/journalists around the world lough out loud  about the failure of the start of the Marketplace: Only available to too few customers, connection errors, too few applications (especially in foreign markets) and no possibility to switch markets, etc.

I would like to post some still open question to the Marketplace engineers. All questions are important mainly for the developers and have already been posted in other threads (some multiple times) but are still not fixed yet. I would be happy to hear a statement about the current status of the fixes. And please not again the "We are working on it" simple answers we are getting here from the very beginning of the Marketplace. Please give some more information, like since when are people working on it, what is the target of the release of the fix (just say "days", "weeks", "month", "quarterly", "years"), what are the problems why it is so hard to fix, etc.

1. Update losses stars: If we update an application a new product is created in the dashboard but the already available reviews are not copied to the update, so we loose all our stars with every update.
2. Version numbers should not be bound to the update limitations: If we do an update of our app we need to increase the version number at the dashboard. As we already know by now, that is only because MSFT restricts us to only have 9 free updates for every app and pay 99$ again for the 10th update. Even if this is a discussion by itself, this "counter" should not be bound to the version number shown in the marketplace. The number shown should be a freely selectable number of the developer (like v2.4.2). The counter of the updates should be reset to 0 for everyone after this fix is made, because most of us had posted the app as e.g. v.1.8 what would result in having only two updates available instead of nine.
3. Application failed for no reason: Maybe this is just me, but I reported about 6 weeks ago that one of my application for the UK market has failed certification for no reason. I already got confirmed from MSFT employee Mike Liu, that it is an error and the app should have passed, but it still shows as error in my dashboard and that's why I can't send it to the market. Mike said I could do an update as workaround, but I don't want another app have a mismatch between the shown version number and the actual version number of the app (see no. 2).
4. W8BEN-forms are not getting processed: Two month ago I had an eMail conversation with Bill Hurwitz of MSFT and asked him about the W8BEN-form I had send to MSFT about 1 week earlier. This forms reports the US tax number needed for every non-US developer to get payed by MSFT. The response was, that they are processed soon and I will be contacted. I now have resend my form while I was in the US about 3 weeks ago just to be sure that it gets there - but still no response what so ever.
5. Using non-US credit card on US marketplace gives "Marketplace could not connect because the server is unavailable": If you try to buy a product from the US marketplace using the emulator from outside of the US, you end up with a "Marketplace could not connect..." error after entering your non-US credit card information. This maybe would nothing much to worry about if there wasn't also this:
6. No ability to switch to other markets: Customers (nor developers) are able to switch to another market to get application there. Because in some countries are soooo few applications available it is very important to be able to switch to other markets to buy applications there. For developers it is very important too, to be able to see his products on other markets for real - instead of the Dashboard having this next issue:
7. Stars in Dashboard always show 5 stars (once it has at least on review), no matter how many stars the application really has.
8. Availability for WM6.1 and Web: Finally we are still waiting for the Marketplace to be available for WM6.1 and the web online catalog. Well, seeing the many issues with the one marketplace they have by now, I think this is really something that is not that important. I don't think that so many customers would download and install the marketplace for their WM6.1 and as always it is just a matter of time until most have WM6.5 anyway. And to be honest I don't see any real purpose of the web catalog: If I'm able to by the application directly on my phone, why bother using my computer to download and install an app on my device. It is much too complicated for "simple" customers. The only reason would maybe be to be able to switch to other markets there, but I really strongly hope that this "feature" will also be available for the "phone-Marketplace".

These are just the problems that came into my mind right now, so I may have even forgot some other still not fixed issues (scary isn't it?).
The Marketplace should be one of the most important product of MSFT now that Windows 7 is done. The Windows Mobile market lost so many customers by now and it will get more every day (thanks to Google's and HTC's good progress on the Android platform). Having nearly unlimited applications available in a easy to use in-device "markeplace" is one of the most important reason why most people buy such type of phone. Knowing that MSFT is the last one missing such a good market, it makes it even more unbelievable that such big flaws mentioned above are not fixed within hours or days., but month (or never?).

Let's all hope, that rescue is coming soon and in time before it is too late....

Answer 1

To extend this list

9. GPS Requirement makes apps unavailable, even on devices that have GPS. Selecting the GPS requirement when submitting an app makes the application completely unavailable on any devices, although the dashboard says the app has been published to the catalog.

10. Support requests issued through Dashboard are ignored. I sent two support requests throgh the dashboard and never got any response, even after more than four weeks! Either get that support request form working or just remove it!

11. User experience of Marketplace client is mediocre. It is drag slow and sluggish. Icons are reloaded over and over again making use of the Marketplace over a slow connection almost unbearable. Tipp to the MS developers: Ever heard of caching and multi-threading?

12. Purchase reports are way too simple. Other app shop platforms offer much better statistics and reports. The simple reports available through the dashboard are just worthless. BTW: Would be great to be able to delete all those requested reports that fill up the dashboard.

Probably it is already too late. More and more Smartphone manufacturers are passing the Windows Mobile platform and turn to Android (see Sony Ericson X10 announcement today). Considering our experience with Marketplace, I just can't help but think that Microsoft has already abandoned Windows Mobile for good.

Answer 2

What do you do, if someone asks 12 tough questions about your product in one thread? Answer them? No, no, better mark it as "Discussion" (looks better at the forum statistics so the boss thinks you are all working hard and have no unsattisfied customers) - thanks Gousekhan-MSFT    ;-)

Answer 3

Be glad your thread is not locked. :) Anyway, it's not a question list, it's a wish list. The implied question is "When, and whether?" And support staff are unfit to unswer those anyway, since they're not privy to the project planning. At least that's how it works in my software shop.

Answer 4

This is just horrifying to read and the lack of response from the MSFT staff is unacceptable.
Considering how Mr. Ballmer said that winmo is now the most important thing on his list you might want to contact him directly and tell him a little about what's going on here:

Steve Ballmer, CEO
[phone]
[e-mail]

It wont get you directly to him, but it will get you to one of his secretaries and i am sure it will get to him eventually.
Maybe he can shake thinks up a little with the MSFT staff.
I am not a developer but just reading the horror stories here makes me sick. i guess MSFT will do anything to fail WM?
I also suggest you contact all the major WinMo blogs about what's going on here, maybe getting some exposure will shake things up. the last thing MS wants now is more bad press for WinMo and the Marketplace.

Answer 5

@Seva: But I hope that at least in your software shop your support team forwards such requests to the developer team or the team leader, so the issues get fixes instead of forgotten. It looks like this is not happening here because some of the issues are months old.
It is hard to say if it is a lack of good communication that causes all this trouble or if the engineers at the Marketplace-Team just can't get the work done and MSFT should provide more man-power to this department.

@Clubtech
I've send a mail to Mr. Ballmer telling him about the situation and pointing him to this thread. We will see where this leads too.
I did not inform bloggers about this because my target with this post is not to give MSFT a bad press, but to get the issues fixed. Taken to extremes, bad press will result in fewer WM devices sold, resulting in fewer possible customers to my software . ;-)
On the other hand I guess that many bloggers already monitor this forum to stay up to date.

Answer 6

*bump* 48hrs and not a single comment from Microsoft? not even a "we're working on a reply, please wait 1 day" or anything?  Come'on guys, you ARE better than this!

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Cheers, Glen

Answer 7

Well as much as I agree with this all "not being OK". However, I know some of the MSFT personnel here also provide support in other areas, and aside from being very knowledgable, they have in the past forwarded issues (in other areas) to core development personnel. So I'm not sure that is actually the issue.

Have you considered it may be that the MSFT guys here do take note and forward our problems, but for some reason the people upstream are not (or only very slowly) working on this? Of course, what _we_ see is these guys, and a lot of us are very frustrated about how things are being handled, or maybe even outright angry, but it may not be their fault.

Company policy may be preventing them from answering things we want answered, or some other reasons. Bottom line is, this is isn't working and we all want MSFT to "get off their collective asses", but blaming the guys here may not be correct.

Please note I have forwarded a bunch of these issues to other people at MSFT and chances are these things are being worked on. After all, over the past few months things have improved, albeit not as much as we all would want, yet.

Answer 8

In my software shop, even the developers aren't supposed to commit to deadlines and features, let alone support personnel.

Answer 9

Wow. So just to clarify, we can't view any other markets through the emulators? (as mentioned in point 4 above) No ability to switch to other markets

Not even if we change the regional settings in the emulator to a different country? They all default to US marketplace? :s

Also, I've been checking out the Smart phone (non-touch) martketplace through the emulator, hardly any apps to be seen. I know most developers are focusing on professional devices but I'd be turned off buying a smart phone if only a few apps were available through that marketplace.

But like JorritJ said above, at least things are improving, be it slowly. We'll all laugh about it months from now.... or cry ; )

-M

Answer 10

Wow. So just to clarify, we can't view any other markets through the emulators? (as mentioned in point 4 above) No ability to switch to other markets

Not even if we change the regional settings in the emulator to a different country? They all default to US marketplace? :s

Also, I've been checking out the Smart phone (non-touch) martketplace through the emulator, hardly any apps to be seen. I know most developers are focusing on professional devices but I'd be turned off buying a smart phone if only a few apps were available through that marketplace.

But like JorritJ said above, at least things are improving, be it slowly. We'll all laugh about it months from now.... or cry ; )

-M

Just FYI if you need to view out other markets (buying doesn't work), Google for MarketplaceRegionSwitch to use on an actual device ... it's on XDA. It sort-of works, anyways.

Answer 11

Changing the system locale works for me. I've never tried buying though. But I would see prices in Euro, etc.

Also, I'm getting quite a bit of activation requests from devices where the system locale (GetSystmDefaultLangID()) would not correspond to any of the markets I'm officially on. Not sure how to interpret those, but the numbers are too big to just ignore. E. g., I have over 70 records that came from Chinese devices.

Answer 12

@Seva: But I hope that at least in your software shop your support team forwards such requests to the developer team or the team leader, so the issues get fixes instead of forgotten. It looks like this is not happening here because some of the issues are months old.
It is hard to say if it is a lack of good communication that causes all this trouble or if the engineers at the Marketplace-Team just can't get the work done and MSFT should provide more man-power to this department.

@Clubtech
I've send a mail to Mr. Ballmer telling him about the situation and pointing him to this thread. We will see where this leads too.
I did not inform bloggers about this because my target with this post is not to give MSFT a bad press, but to get the issues fixed. Taken to extremes, bad press will result in fewer WM devices sold, resulting in fewer possible customers to my software . ;-)
On the other hand I guess that many bloggers already monitor this forum to stay up to date.

I just hope they will fix the problems you are facing soon and the way that i see it, without you developers they have NOTHING. wm 6.5 is dead without new apps and content and it does not seem like m$ is realizing this fact.
I would have expected at least an answer from SOMEONE at m$ to this post.
I heard that there is a second wave of marketplace updates coming this month, but by looking at the pathetic situation on these forums...i doubt it.

Answer 13

Hey Jorrit, thanks for the tip I'll give it a try.

All the best

-M

Answer 14

Changing the system locale works for me. I've never tried buying though. But I would see prices in Euro, etc.

Also, I'm getting quite a bit of activation requests from devices where the system locale (GetSystmDefaultLangID()) would not correspond to any of the markets I'm officially on. Not sure how to interpret those, but the numbers are too big to just ignore. E. g., I have over 70 records that came from Chinese devices.

Hey Seva. Just to clarify your point above. Users require an activation key to run your app, and the users are sending those requests through their devices to you, which in turn contains their region data that their device is running? Is that correct?

Very interesting stuff on the Chinese market, I'd really like to see how many apps are available in the Chinese Marketplace, and other Marketplaces for that matter. Does anyone else know a good way to do this through our emulators?

Thanks,

Martin

Answer 15

@Macfinch Please open a new Thread for you questions or search a little, this was asked many times by now. FYI: You can download emulators with different localizations to access other markets directly from them. You may only not be able to buy anything because of the No. 6 at my list above.

Answer 16

Hey MSWiege. Thanks for the answer. Will take a look round first next time :)

All the best,

-M

Answer 17

No. 4 W8BEN-forms are not getting processed has been answered by MSFT employee on this thread:
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/mktplace/thread/ef35e729-8a78-47a5-8b98-5c4b1ec247c1/

Hi Jorrit,

Confirmation receipts will go out later this month. 

Beginning in December, the expected turnaround time for W8 receipts will be within 2 weeks.

Thanks for your patience.
Jo

Answer 18

Maik, Andreas,

thanks for the summary of current issues, and yes, we hear you. And we care, and work on resolving your issues where we can (as you should have noticed from the personal correspondence that we had). Some of this will be resolved in the next couple of weeks, but as you should know from your own product development, not everything can be fixed immediately.
As for #8, this will come really soon, and I can definitely see value in browsing the app catalog online on the PC, and having my purchases synched automatically to my phone (no manual transfer, of course).
As for #10, no they are not ignored, but sorry it took separate emails to get a response - we'll improve.
As for #11: what's "threading"? ;-)

Please don't hesitate to let me know if you have issues, and you think I can help.

Thanks, and good luck,

Frank

[MSFT]

Answer 19

Hi,

I have an issue that is very frustrating, has been posted several times. Others (like Sander16) also experience the problem:

#13: Cannot submit to additional markets:
- EN-AUS
- EN-IRELAND
- EN-NEW ZEALAND
- NL-NETHERLANDS
- NL-BELGIUM
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(other markets like EN-US, EN-UK and  EN-CAN go well).

Can somebody please have a look at this...

 

Thanx,
Gerben

Answer 20

If you're having an issue, you should do one or more of the following:

 - start a new Question-type thread here
 - use the "User Support" at the Dashboard
 - email to mk dev sup at microsoft.com

Adding to an end of an existing thread is about the worst way to have your issue heard.

Answer 21

Thanx Seva for the post.

I will start a new question-type thread.

Gerben

Answer 22

If you're having an issue, you should do one or more of the following:

 - use the "User Support" at the Dashboard

I wouldn't recommend this choice. I never got any answer to my requests made using the "User Support" at the Dashboard. Much better to e-mail directly or to your local Microsoft representative.

Answer 23

Thanx Andreas. I will also send an e-mail.

I am wondering: has anybody succesfully submitted their product to these additional markets:
- EN-AUS
- EN-IRELAND
- EN-NEW ZEALAND
- NL-NETHERLANDS
- NL-BELGIUM

Gerben

Answer 24

<off topic> and how do I stop the forum from alerting me to this subscribed thread??  (without posting this message and deselecting the "alert me" option)

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Cheers, Glen

Answer 25

Gerben, yes we have sucessfully submitted to all of these markets and have had apps accepted into those markets.

It took a while for the processing of those submissions to complete, but we were successful.

Answer 26

Thanx KarenV. I now got an e-mail from [e-mail]. Hope they will solve the problem soon.

Gerben